posted
Radio stations are abuzz all day with callers calling in to give their thanks and love to Egypt and Egyptians. They are thanking Egypt for allowing the thousands upon thousands of their brothers and sisters that are under occupation to enter freely for the purpose of buying food.
The Zionist state of Israel has literally cut off water, electricity, gas, oil and food supplies - while the whole world watches. The Palestinians today dismantled the border wall barrier and Egyptian soldiers welcomed the masses that poured in side Egypt.
Alhamdulillah. The words and the dua for Egypt and Egyptians today are very beautiful.
Allah barak alla Masr wa ahlaha.
Posts: 2418 | Registered: Nov 2007
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Ya rab! Which channel are you listening to.... Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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Im presuming there is some economical and political reason why Egypt cant take at least 'some' as refugees?? Why do they have to go back at all? Cant they be taken as refugees here and surrounding countries like Jordan, I know there are many escaped to Jordan already.
Im not 'into' politics so maybe thats why I dont understand.
-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Exiled: The Zionist state of Israel has literally cut off water, electricity, gas, oil and food supplies
As far as I know Egypt supplies the Gaza strip with some electricity, yet refuses to supply them with as much as they need.
I've heard that one of the reasons they don't is that they don't want to lose the two billion dollars financial aid they are getting from the US each year ...
quote:Originally posted by Exiled: The Zionist state of Israel has literally cut off water, electricity, gas, oil and food supplies
As far as I know Egypt supplies the Gaza strip with some electricity, yet refuses to supply them with as much as they need.
I've heard that one of the reasons they don't is that they don't want to lose the two billion dollars financial aid they are getting from the US each year ...
AAhhh of course.
So Egypt wont take them in because Israel would be angry and if Israel is angry USA is angry and if USA is angry Egypt gets no money.
posted
God is great. It is a proud moment for Egypt.
And Ayisha, not everyone wants to abandon Palestine to Israel. That is their land, their home. That would just be kind of letting them win.
Posts: 1879 | From: Going to Graceland | Registered: Nov 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Exiled: The Zionist state of Israel has literally cut off water, electricity, gas, oil and food supplies
As far as I know Egypt supplies the Gaza strip with some electricity, yet refuses to supply them with as much as they need.
I've heard that one of the reasons they don't is that they don't want to lose the two billion dollars financial aid they are getting from the US each year ...
Dalia Egypt already has had its USAid $$ reduced because it backed out on portions of the David Accord's pact.
In order for this USAid package to be reduced it must go through congress and I have only seen USAid reduced to a particular country by executive order no more than 2 times, if its still within the privilages of the executive office (presidency).
The reason why the USAid package was reduced is due to a break in Diplomacy, an intentional act by the Egyptian government and it was because Egypt privatized its National Oil company. Thus Egypt will not be selling its crude oil for 1/6 the market rate directly to the US military.
I understand Dalia you don't find politics rational, but there are international and US policies to ascribe to here.
Its not the equalivilant of a parent reducing or suspending a child's allowance. Its a lengthy process that takes an entire congressional season to pass bills with reduce a particular section of a budget.
Sorry to disappoint, but I just forced through reality into your fantasy.
Posts: 1455 | From: debtville | Registered: Dec 2007
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The thing is that the Palestinians have not been allowed into Egypt proper, just the Egyptian part of Rafah. They can only go as far as Arish and not actually into the rest of Egypt. It seems as if they are in a bit of a no-man's land, out of Gaza, but not fully into Egypt.
Remember the pilgrims who got stuck? They were stuck at Arish trying to get back into Gaza, not in Rafah.
So all Egypt has actually done is allowed them to come into a no-man's land to do some shopping and spend all their money; which admittedly is a good thing, but its not as good as it appears on the surface. Is it ever?
Posts: 4576 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2002
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What I find odd is there is no journalists or humanitarian efforts for the Palestinians in Arish or Rafah to either give aid or document human rights abuses.
None of the Arab countries actually allow humanitarian aid in regions adjascent to Palestine, and scant aid in the actual refugee camps.
Seriously Lebannon, Syria, Jordan and Egypt have some sort of pact to limit resources to Palestinian refugees.
-------------------- Offend one offend all during the season. Posts: 1455 | From: debtville | Registered: Dec 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Exiled: Radio stations are abuzz all day with callers calling in to give their thanks and love to Egypt and Egyptians. They are thanking Egypt for allowing the thousands upon thousands of their brothers and sisters that are under occupation to enter freely for the purpose of buying food.
The Zionist state of Israel has literally cut off water, electricity, gas, oil and food supplies - while the whole world watches. The Palestinians today dismantled the border wall barrier and Egyptian soldiers welcomed the masses that poured in side Egypt.
Alhamdulillah. The words and the dua for Egypt and Egyptians today are very beautiful.
Allah barak alla Masr wa ahlaha.
Very good news! I wish to Palestinians only the best.
May Allah give them the strength and the will to survive and resist, eventually become the strongest and prevail with God's will.
We all thank to Egypt and Egyptians for being so compassionate and doing what's right thing to do. Posts: 1039 | Registered: Jun 2007
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I was so happy abd I send my tx to Egypt for extending a hand in friendship to the Palestinians in this dire humantarian need may God bless Egypt
-------------------- Life is not measured by the breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away. Posts: 564 | From: planet earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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What would be even better would be a little kiosk that every Palestinian has to pass through and they recieve a voucher to spend on all they need and the Saudi and other Oil Sheikhs pay the tab to the Egyptian shopkeepers. Let the Palestinians take their money back throug to Gaza with them, now that would be humanitarian.
God Bless Egypt and the Egyptians right now. They have SO done the right thing.
quote:Originally posted by newcomer: The thing is that the Palestinians have not been allowed into Egypt proper, just the Egyptian part of Rafah. They can only go as far as Arish and not actually into the rest of Egypt. It seems as if they are in a bit of a no-man's land, out of Gaza, but not fully into Egypt.
Remember the pilgrims who got stuck? They were stuck at Arish trying to get back into Gaza, not in Rafah.
So all Egypt has actually done is allowed them to come into a no-man's land to do some shopping and spend all their money; which admittedly is a good thing, but its not as good as it appears on the surface. Is it ever?
Everything you wrote is factual. I will not delve into the political intricacies relative to this issue but for now as of yesterday, many Palestinians have food on their plates. This act by Palestinians to tear down the wall and for Egyptians to accept them into their territory without passports, visas is unprecedented. This move has alleviated some of the misery imposed collectively on occupied Palestinians by the Israeli government.
Again i agree with you but these are very desperate times. When people are literally crossing the border to purchase flour, milk, cheese, oil, etc. These are very basic necessities for every family.
Posts: 2418 | Registered: Nov 2007
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All what happened is that Hamas blew a few holes in the wall, in order to make in- and out-coming traffic from Egypt possible. The Palstinian people took their chance, crossed the Egyptian border en masse. As soon as the Palestinians reached the Egyptian shops, the shopkeepers raised their proces, but that didn't stop the Palestinians. Besides food and cigarettes, they bought mobile phones and televisions. A few sick Palestinians got medical treatment,and that's it. The act of humanity in this is a relative subject. The Palestinians were able to buy what they wanted, nothing more... So the nobility in this is limited...
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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Why everyone is thinking they went shopping and go back *home*?
You be surprised how many have other plans....
And I can widely imagine how weapons, ammunition, drugs and whatever else get carried over now hence it became so much easier - no more crawling through tunnels.
Egypt has in general a huge problem to protect it's borders; not only the Hamas knows that.
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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I guess Egypt's hospitality already reached its end...
Egypt fires water cannons at border
Reuters Published: January 25, 2008
RAFAH, Egypt: Egyptian forces fired water cannons at Palestinians trying to force their way across the Gaza-Egypt border on Friday and warned over loudspeakers the border would close at 3 p.m. (1 p.m. British time), witnesses said.
posted
Mubarak has to deal with Hamas outside and the strong opposition from the Muslim Brotherhood inside, against the warning Isreal and US. So, he wants to keep them both satisfied to open the gates limited. As I understood there was no need for food behind these walls, aid-foundations even delivered food earlier this week. It was a planned action from Hamas, and it is used as propaganda. The Palestinians who have to live behind these walls, of course, are living like in a jail, without knowing freedom. Opening the gates means a little freedom to them...
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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seems the Egyptian police have pulled back again and have not interferred in the Palestinians going back through the Salahadeen gate. 2 Cops were seriously injured possibly dead after being hit by stones from the Palestinians according to Al Jazeera news report. At that point the police were told to withdraw as they did not want to enter combat with the Palestinian people crossing over.
Posts: 3416 | Registered: Oct 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Exiled: We need more smilies on ES and one i have in mind would wave a banner that reads: idiots need not reply in my thread.
Enjoy your weekend ESers.
Said the MORON and left the forum.
Thank you. Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by ?????: As I understood there was no need for food behind these walls, aid-foundations even delivered food earlier this week. Opening the gates means a little freedom to them...
And why aid-foundations would be needed if food was available behind these walls?
You do understand that Palestine is an occupied country and we are talking about it's people Palestinians behind these walls?
Posts: 1039 | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by ?????: As I understood there was no need for food behind these walls, aid-foundations even delivered food earlier this week. Opening the gates means a little freedom to them...
And why aid-foundations would be needed if food was available behind these walls?
You do understand that Palestine is an occupied country and we are talking about it's people Palestinians behind these walls?
Yes, I think the aid-foundations were able to controll the situation. Besides that, of course all these people are living in a jail. What I don't understand is: Gaza is near to nations that should be considered to be their muslim brothers. When my neighbour should be in need for food, and is hungry, I would feed him. All these people locked up between walls, unemployed for years and years, it should be the most generous thing to do, and complete in the intention of their religion: feed them. But there is not a neighbout who is doing that. The neighbour sits and wait, untill the wall has been forced, they raise up their prices, and the neighbour can buy his food... There would not be ONE nation that could have objections against acts of humnaity, to feed the neighbours in need. It would give excellent PR, and Israel could not have moral objections because there is nothing wrong with it. The whole world should disagree with them if they would... Why is nobody that human, why is nobody that smart? It would brings in positive vibes into a negative situation, and would shine a light on the real victims instead as the wars of power that the leading people are playing...
Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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quote:Originally posted by ?????: As I understood there was no need for food behind these walls, aid-foundations even delivered food earlier this week. Opening the gates means a little freedom to them...
And why aid-foundations would be needed if food was available behind these walls?
You do understand that Palestine is an occupied country and we are talking about it's people Palestinians behind these walls?
Yes, I think the aid-foundations were able to controll the situation. Besides that, of course all these people are living in a jail.
So if the aid-foundations were able to feed Palestinians behind the wall, why Palestinians broke the wall and decided to go for food?
Posts: 1039 | Registered: Jun 2007
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Why was it even legal for Egypt to have a wall on its border with Gaza in the first place?
Do they think that the Palestinians are so bad that they have to prevent any dealings with them? They're probably right if they do, but immensely hyprocritical nonetheless.
Palestine is now being run by a radical terrorist group -hamas- after hamas OVERTHREW their own government and imposed radically violent Muslim rule. SO it's bombs away for the Palestinians as they lob their explosives over the Israeli border on a continual basis.
It's only oppression if it's jews doing the opressing. If Egyptians (or other muslims) do it to other palestinians, it's not oppression, it's the Egyptians protecting themselves from the Jews coming through Gaza.
Posts: 156 | Registered: Jan 2008
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Israel has a population of a little over 7 million; Gaza a population of a little under 1.5 million. That means Gaza has about 20 per cent the population of Israel.
That would be almost exactly equivalent to the United States-at a little over 300 million-supplying water and electricity to a population the size of the entire United Kingdom (60 million). That might put a bit of a dent in the national budge, don't you think?
That doesn't begin to address all the other aid Israel has offered Gaza, including maintaining their sewer system (for which Israeli engineers had to devise the use of heavy-duty plastic pvc pipes, because Palistinians would did up metal sewer pipes to use making mortars), and of course those long-destroyed donated greenhouses that were meant to jump-start the Gazan economy.
Posts: 156 | Registered: Jan 2008
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Hamas has been preparing this break-out-scene for months. They have been placing these bombs with the intention to use it, on the moment it suited them. I think you are misunderstanding my point in this; my opinion about the matter. To me Hamas, Fatah, Muslim Brotherhood, Israelian, Egyptian and US gouvernments have one important similarity: they are all using their power above a group of people and against other groups. To me it doesn't make a difference whether it is Hamas or the Egyptian gouvernment: they are all dupating groups of innocent civilians. They are playing their acts on a playstage that they have created theirselves, and the civilians are victims in this. Do you really think a normal civilian, Palestinian, Israelian or Egyptian is happy with this? They are used as pieces on a chestboard, and all these organisations are placing and replacing them whenever they want; they don't have any influence on the course of the game. They are not the players, they are the pawns. What would you do when you are locked into a place surrounded by walls, when you would be dependant on what the players in this game are willing to give, when you lack freedom, and the walls are open? Escape and get away, simple as that. There is not a single humanitary justification in situations like this, and the world is sitting and watching, including the neighbours. I am not discussing the truth in the situation as it was last week, I am discussing humanity in every involved party. Every involved party is replacing the pawns now and then, they pull the strings, and the people are just puppets. Every involved party is manipulating scenes and are making it look like they want at that moment. Hamas made it look like it was humanity as also Egypt did. It wasn't. It was an arranged break-out. The losers in this are the Palestinian people.
Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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quote:I am disscusing humanity in every involved party.
Do you see anything morally wrong and inhumane in having Palestinians fed by aid-foundations in their own country - and - being behind the wall?
Posts: 1039 | Registered: Jun 2007
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Besides electricity and water, I find it most ironic that the Arab Palestinians would rely on the Infidel for their oil supply. Their friends in Iran could send fuel oil instead of IFD'S and rocket launchers.
Posts: 156 | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote:Originally posted by ?????: The losers in this are the Palestinian people.
So who occupied their country Palestine and deprived them of basic human needs such as food, electricity, gas, oil, water... ?
Posts: 1039 | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by ?????: Hamas made it look like it was humanity as also Egypt did. It wasn't. It was an arranged break-out. The losers in this are the Palestinian people.
So providing the food after Palestinians broke the wall was not act of humanity but keeping Palestinians behind the wall with no food, electricity, gas and oil - is?
So how Palestinians are losers if they finally broke the wall and got food ?
Posts: 1039 | Registered: Jun 2007
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The war in Middle East has nothing to do with land. There has never been a country called Palestine. Palestine is the name of a region like Sahara. Part of that falls in Israel, the other parts fall in Syria and Jordan. No one is asking Syria and Jordan to give back the territories.
Prior to the Jews the Turks were ruling this land for centuries. There was no call for Jihad then because although the Turks are not Arabs they are Muslims. So it was okay. But a Muslim can't have the humiliation of being ruled by non-Muslims, and especially a Jewish state. This is a religious war.
They don't want Israel as a neighbor, period.
Here is a quote by one of their leaders on what they want;
"The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct 'Palestinian people' to oppose Zionism. "For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa. While as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan." (PLO executive committee member Zahir Muhsein, March 31, 1977, interview with the Dutch newspaper Trouw.)
Posts: 156 | Registered: Jan 2008
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Muslims speak of Israel as if it actually belonged to the Palestinians from the dawn of time. But the Jews have been there for at least 4000 years. They were exiled and were taken in Diaspora, often persecuted by maniacs such as Hitler, Muhammad and his followers and now they are back reclaiming their own ancestral land. Is there anything wrong in that? If you said yes it is because you are biased. Your hatred has clouded your judgment. This is something that you have to resolve for yourself.
Prophet Muhammad ethnically cleansed them from Arabia. He attacked the Jewish settlements of Medina and though they did not fight back and surrendered, he massacred their men tool their women and children as slave and sold them.
What Muhammad did to other religions in Arabia (Hijaz) was ethnic cleansing. What the Muslims are doing to the Christians, Buddhists, Hindus. Ahmadis and Bahais in all Islamic countries is ethnic cleansing, because you can see a systematic persecution of these minorities in all Islamic countries. These minorities are massacred, imprisoned and forced to exile. This is ethnic cleansing. The Jews are not persecuting the Palestinians. The Palestinians are free in Israel and their rights are protected. But of course you cannot expect trust from a people that they constantly terrorize you. There is a lot of bad blood among the Jews and Palestinians. But try to be fair in you judgment. How would you react if you were an Israeli constantly being harassed by the Palestinian suicide bombers? What would you do to a people who openly deny your right to exist?
Palestine before the 1967 was under the occupation of Jordan. No one complained at that time. Why so much fuss when the Jews have occupied it? The answer is simple. Muslims hate the Jews. The reason for this is because Muhammad told them to hate the Jews. Prior to Muhammad, the Jews and the Arabs were allies. They intermarried and traded with each other. Muhammad is the founder of the religious animosity between the Arabs and the Jews that has lasted for 1400 years and is causing the death of innocent people even today.
Posts: 156 | Registered: Jan 2008
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I don't know where you're up to, LML, but I think I have been clear enough. The Palestinian civilians are the losesr in this, because they are the victims, that must'be to difficult to understand, isn't it? You are taking out little details of what I write, to discuss them, without getting the intention of the complete text: The Palestinian people are like puppets on a string, and several parties are pulling the strings when they feel the need to do so. Nobody can deny that, and I really don't understand why you are discussing this at all. If your neighbour is hungry, you feed him, simple as that.If you are unable to help him in a structural way, to make sure that he would be able to feed himself, you are giving aid. If Hamas should be that concerned about the wellness from their own people, they AT LEAST would be sure that they would be in need. They wouldn't place bombs for months and let them explode at the moment aid-foundations actually delivered supplies in that same week! But it is like it is going everywhere; even the humanitairy aid is directed.There are stock chambers full of food and medicines that never reached the ones who are in need, because some lunatic is pulling the strings and is using his exaction. Go on with duiscussing trivial details, I won't answer. Because in my opinion you are intentional leading the discussion in the direction YOU want.And I DO NOT want this. Thank you.
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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The one thing there is no shortage in the Palestinian lands is explosives. Everything else can run out but they still manage to find stuff to blow other peoples stuff up with.
I've always wondered about that. If the Palestinians are so impoverished, how is it possible that every male over the age of five owns at least one AK-47 and is able to shoot gazillions of bullets into the air a dozen times a day? Anybody have any idea the cost of a single bullet in Gaza?
Posts: 156 | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Strangeways: Muslims speak of Israel as if it actually belonged to the Palestinians from the dawn of time. But the Jews have been there for at least 4000 years. They were exiled and were taken in Diaspora, often persecuted by maniacs such as Hitler, Muhammad and his followers and now they are back reclaiming their own ancestral land. Is there anything wrong in that? If you said yes it is because you are biased. Your hatred has clouded your judgment. This is something that you have to resolve for yourself.
Prophet Muhammad ethnically cleansed them from Arabia. He attacked the Jewish settlements of Medina and though they did not fight back and surrendered, he massacred their men tool their women and children as slave and sold them.
What Muhammad did to other religions in Arabia (Hijaz) was ethnic cleansing. What the Muslims are doing to the Christians, Buddhists, Hindus. Ahmadis and Bahais in all Islamic countries is ethnic cleansing, because you can see a systematic persecution of these minorities in all Islamic countries. These minorities are massacred, imprisoned and forced to exile. This is ethnic cleansing. The Jews are not persecuting the Palestinians. The Palestinians are free in Israel and their rights are protected. But of course you cannot expect trust from a people that they constantly terrorize you. There is a lot of bad blood among the Jews and Palestinians. But try to be fair in you judgment. How would you react if you were an Israeli constantly being harassed by the Palestinian suicide bombers? What would you do to a people who openly deny your right to exist?
Palestine before the 1967 was under the occupation of Jordan. No one complained at that time. Why so much fuss when the Jews have occupied it? The answer is simple. Muslims hate the Jews. The reason for this is because Muhammad told them to hate the Jews. Prior to Muhammad, the Jews and the Arabs were allies. They intermarried and traded with each other. Muhammad is the founder of the religious animosity between the Arabs and the Jews that has lasted for 1400 years and is causing the death of innocent people even today.
There is no such thing as "the jews". The jews are a group of people that are sharing the same religion, such as christians, muslims, buddhists etc. There is no country that is called Jewania, like there is no Christian or Buddistic country. It was not a co-incedence that the three big religions all started in the same area; what now is called the middle-east. There it all started, and from there it spreaded out over the world. There are believers from this religions in almost every country of the world, and none of them has the right to have an own country, certainly not at the place where it all started. That giving of rights to the jews, imo was a stupic act, everybody should have known that this wasn't possible. But, it happened, and we have to deal with that. During the last 60 years the civilians in this part of the world have had so much troubles, that they just want to live in peace, leading a normal life. The ones who are pulling the strings are making that impossible. For the jews, for the christians, and for the muslims.
Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Strangeways: The one thing there is no shortage in the Palestinian lands is explosives. Everything else can run out but they still manage to find stuff to blow other peoples stuff up with.
I've always wondered about that. If the Palestinians are so impoverished, how is it possible that every male over the age of five owns at least one AK-47 and is able to shoot gazillions of bullets into the air a dozen times a day? Anybody have any idea the cost of a single bullet in Gaza?
They are all unemployed for ages, they should be poor, and if you see what they did spend, during their last visits to Egypt, you indeed have to wonder how this is possible. Televisionsets, satellites, mobile phones, cement, building equipment, not exactly what a hungry family should buy... The most likely reason is that this is also directed....
Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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posted
Judaism is the name of the religion of the Jews but Jews are also a nation. These are two different things with the same name. Israel is a secular country. Many Jews do not believe in God let alone in Judaism. Do you really think Albert Einstein believed in Yahweh, or had any faith in Judaism? Einstein was an atheist. But do you deny the fact that he was a Jew?
Today the religion of Judaism is irrelevant, outdated and superfluous, yet the Jews as a nation need to have a land to call their own. They belong to Israel just as Egyptians belong to Egypt. Israel is given to the Jews in reaction to what happened to millions of them during the WWII. Every human being must have a place to call home. If the Palestinians did not hate the Jews this much and if driving all the Jews out of Israel was not their only goal, it won’t be hard to come to an agreement.
Today the Palestinians want nothing short of destruction of Israel. Would anyone make concessions to someone who openly says I want to kill you? Judging by the number of geniuses among the Jews, one thing they are not is stupid.
Posts: 156 | Registered: Jan 2008
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I think 95% of the people are having a religion without have chosen for it, because their parents decided this for them by birth. When every new born child should have to make a decision for its own in case of chosing a religion, at least it should lead to more aware choices. Einstein and many others who are thinking a little bit further, know that a lot what has been written in this religious books can't be true. As soon as people can't find an exploination for what's happening they are tended to make it religious because they want an exploination! Many of this old miracles, appearances, occurings etc. in the meanwhile, are scientific to explain. The jews are having such people, the muslims are having such people, and the christians are having such people. People who are able to see the lines in a religion, and are able to see the subjectivity in it, and are understanding that they were written in a similar backlaying thought; simple guidelines for people to get along with each other, to respect each other, and to accept each other. Everybody who has a bit common sense knows these rules without those books. Good is good and bad is bad, and it doesn't matter in which religion you're looking; it are basic human believes and they are identical. Everything what has been written more, is about details, and can have differences, but in fact they're not important. The jews as a religious group have been persued through the whole history, and everywhere on the world. Nevertheless their believes are the base of christianity and islam. As long as I can respect a person for having any religion, nothing will go wrong. As soon as I don't demand rights of having my religion, nothing will go wrong. I am believing X and you are believing Y, nad probably the neighbour believes Z. As long as we respect that, nothing will go wrong. If you, as a member of church Y are in need for help, and I'm giving you that, you will respect me, even when I am from church X. If neighbour Z is doing the same, we all will live in peace with each other and next to each other, complete in the intention to our own different religions. Then we shouldn't need a country for believers from church X, Y or Z.
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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Desperate measures in an attempt to gain back order!!
Egyptian forces order closure of al-Arish shops
Posted : Sat, 26 Jan 2008 13:56:05 GMT Author : DPA Category : Middle East (World)
Cairo - Egyptian authorities on Saturday forced the shutdown of all stores, markets and gas stations in al-Arish city in the northern Sinai in a bid to pressure the Palestinians to return to Gaza, eyewitnesses and security sources said. Security sources have imposed a curfew, trying to prevent people from walking in the streets, sources told Deutsche Presse-Agentur dpa.
"Streets in al-Arish are completely empty of Egyptians. Only Palestinians are wandering around searching for open shops to buy from," sources said.
Egyptian security forces in full riot gear deployed along the border with Gaza on Friday in an attempt to restore order after two days of anarchy that saw hundreds of thousands of Palestinians cross over freely and stock up on scarce supplies in Egypt.
The deadline to close the Rafah crossing point was earlier announced over megaphones on Egyptian security vehicles driving around al-Arish and the divided border town of Rafah, where many Palestinians had spent the night, either with relatives, on benches or in parks.
Egyptian security forces in full riot gear had deployed Friday along the border in an attempt to restore order after two days of anarchy that saw hundreds of thousands of Palestinians cross over freely and stock up on scarce supplies in Egypt.
But in late Friday afternoon, militants used bulldozers to break another hole in the border fence, and scores of trucks and pedestrians were again seen streaming unhindered into Egypt.
On Saturday, there were reports that thousands of Palestinians continued to cross over the border.
posted
Egypt had no choice so it is the Palestinians who blasted the wall who are holding the power and not Mubarak! If he were to mash down the Palestinian break, he would bolster his enemies and that would start a problem because Hamas is more powerful (unified) than the power behinf Mubarak!
Posts: 1290 | From: usa | Registered: May 2005
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no i think egypt allways has the power becozi think egypt is stronge enough to does not let this palestinians go over egyptian land.egypt just let them get some food and fuel o they can live.egypt allways only country in the middle east can stand for israel
Posts: 14 | From: america | Registered: Jan 2008
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and i think anyone did not appriciate what egypt did he is i think hezoaalah member hehe
Posts: 14 | From: america | Registered: Jan 2008
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"My enemy, oh snake! Around the land, you are coiled. You have no choice, oh enemy, but to leave my country" - here is yet another indication that the Palestinian Authority of Mahmoud Abbas believes that it can work for the destruction of Israel with utter impunity while pretending to be on the side of peaceful coexistence.
(IsraelNN.com) Fatah chief and PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas's PA television has been repeatedly broadcasting a hate-filled music video calling for the ethnic cleansing of the Jewish people from Israel.
"My enemy, oh snake! Around the land, you are coiled. You have no choice, oh enemy, but to leave my country," is the refrain in the video, which has been broadcast on a daily basis for the past several months, according to Palestinian Media Watch (PMW).
"The song's refrain, 'My enemy, oh enemy,' is repeated over and over throughout the song. Israel is not even given the courtesy of a name, but is tagged with such labels as 'treacherous,' 'imperialism' and a 'coiled snake,'" PMW Director Itamar Marcus points out. "The Palestinian is portrayed as a heroic victim who courageously confronts the evil 'enemy' Israel."
The song incites Arabs living under Fatah's rule in Judea and Samaria to fight to the death to rid the land of Jews, assuring them that, through this, they will ultimately prevail: "You have no choice, oh enemy, but to leave my country," it says.
quote:Originally posted by ?????: The jews as a religious group have been persued through the whole history, and everywhere on the world.
That's one of the reasons why the World can't understand their acts of inhumanity by keeping Palestinians behind the wall with no food, electricity and basic needs in their own country.
Let's not forget, Palestine is an occupied country. Palestinians need their country back, and keeping them behind the wall and starving them to death won't distroy them.
The Jews as a religious group who survived genocide should have known better.
Explaining that Palestinians did not benefit from buying food in Egypt for bare survival is like saying Jews could not have benefited when they were rescued out of concentration camps in Germany...
because someone along the line had really bad motives and wanted only to make money on them.
Posts: 1039 | Registered: Jun 2007
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The latest idea is to give Sinai to the Palestinians. The one has to give it is Egypt, of course. How about the hungry Palestinians that have been arrested yesterday, on their way to Cairo, with weapons and bombs? 3.000 were arrested yesterday... Above that, the Gaza wall with all that holes, and that so called hungry people, are NOT such a big issue in Egypt. Another example about the differences in media representation...
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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In Egypt, the Muslim Brotherhood and secular political groups rally for Gazans -- and against Mubarak.
By Jeffrey Fleishman, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer January 29, 2008
CAIRO -- Egypt's main Islamist party and other opposition groups are strengthening their appeal by using images of desperate Palestinians streaming out of the Gaza Strip to provoke wider protests against President Hosni Mubarak's 26-year-old government.
Demonstrations in Cairo and throughout the country by the Muslim Brotherhood and other political groups ostensibly have been staged to declare Egyptian solidarity with the residents of Gaza. But they are also aimed at weakening Mubarak, whom the groups accuse of oppression and criticize for economic shortcomings and close ties to Washington.
It is political theater punctuated with dangerous rhetoric. Mubarak's vast intelligence and security forces are attempting to prevent pro-Palestinian protests from erupting into sustained nationwide anti-government rallies. But the Muslim Brotherhood and Kifaya, Arabic for "Enough," an umbrella opposition group of leftists and nationalists, are determined to make just that happen. The Muslim Brotherhood has sponsored 80 demonstrations since Wednesday, when hundreds of thousands of Gazans began pouring into Egypt through a breached border wall.
The Muslim Brotherhood, which favors a government guided by Islamic law, known as Sharia, has a platform of nonviolence but has been accused over the years of bombings and other militant acts.. Despite the arrests of hundreds of its members, the group enjoys extensive support among the poor and middle class and poses the nation's most significant political threat to Mubarak's ruling National Democratic Party.
The Palestinian cause is the crystallizing passion in the Arab world, but the Gaza border crisis has brought new urgency to a public relations battle between Islamists and secular governments, especially in Egypt. It has also demonstrated that Hamas, the militant Islamist party that controls Gaza and is ideologically linked to the Muslim Brotherhood, remains a major factor in the future Palestinian equation, contrary to the wishes of the U.S., Egypt, Israel and the Palestinian Authority.
At the Rafah border crossing Monday, Hamas cooperated for the first time with an Egyptian effort to reassert control over the frontier. Egyptian guards and Hamas forces coordinated security and used concrete and barbed wire to close at least two gaps in the barrier opened by explosions. At least four gaps remained open, including two for cars.
Thousands of Palestinians went back and forth. Traffic, thinned by rain Sunday, was heavier Monday but down from last week's massive levels. Shoppers, however, found little to buy in the Egyptian Sinai, where prices began rising and the government limited the availability of goods.
While Egyptian authorities debated how to further shrink the number of Palestinians in Sinai, they also concentrated on domestic dissent. Police in recent days have broken up a number of protests and arrested scores of Muslim Brotherhood members and Kifaya activists.
Opposition groups in Egypt have historically been disparate, with various religious and secular agendas and lacking a unifying spirit other than disdain for Mubarak's government, which receives nearly $2 billion a year in U.S. aid and upholds an unpopular peace treaty with Israel.
The current political maneuverings between the government and opposition come as this nation of 73 million people is enduring persistent inflation, shrinking government subsidies and budget deficits.
The outlawed Muslim Brotherhood, whose members ran as independents and won about 20% of the seats in Parliament in 2005, said its chief aim is to support Palestinians and condemn U.S. and Israeli policies. But the organization acknowledged that the protests had grown wider in scope. Banners in a Cairo demonstration of 2,000 protesters last week included slogans sympathetic toward Palestinians and vitriolic against Egypt, such as "A Country Without Justice."
"The regime dealt brutally with demonstrators because it is concerned about domestic stability," said Abdel Moneim Abul Fotouh, a Muslim Brotherhood leader. "The regime knows that there is public outrage for other reasons including inflation, unemployment and other accumulated problems. It fears that things will explode."
Egyptians are "terribly depressed by the domestic situation and want to express themselves by any means," said George Ishaq, a Kifaya leader. "They seized [the Gaza border dispute] as a chance to express their views."
Mohammed Sayed Said, deputy head of the Al Ahram Center for Political and Strategic Studies in Cairo, said support for the Palestinians is giving the Muslim Brotherhood "a great deal of legitimacy."
"They're anti-Israeli and anti-American. They see themselves as the most vehement resistors, and this is a big payoff for them. They have been very clear in focusing on the Palestinian issue," he said.
Mubarak, for his part, is attempting to show that he is just as roused as the Islamists over what he calls Israel's "collective punishment" of Palestinians. The president criticized Israel for retaliating against Hamas missile strikes with a fuel blockade of Gaza; days later, Hamas blew the holes in the border wall. Mubarak has received praise across the Arab world for allowing upward of 500,000 Palestinians to shop for supplies and unwind in Sinai.
The main problem the 79-year-old Mubarak faces in the Arab street, however, is his grudging support of U.S. and Israeli policies that isolated Hamas after the group seized Gaza from Fatah, the faction of Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas. Egypt was wary of Hamas exporting militants, but the containment strategy, which included economic sanctions, failed.
The Rafah crossing was largely open until militants burrowed under Gaza's border with Israel and captured Israeli Cpl. Gilad Shalit in June 2006. The Israelis tightened Gaza's borders in response. A year later, when Hamas fighters routed Fatah forces and took control of Gaza, the frontier was sealed.
"You cannot go back to that same policy," Said said. "Egypt does not want to recognize Hamas as a legitimate government in Gaza. But you just can't leave a total vacuum. Egypt's concerned about extremists, but you can't clash with Palestinians [crossing the border]. You don't want to look like Israel at all."
A slight readjustment appears to be underway. Aside from cooperating on limiting border traffic Monday, Hamas is expected to send a delegation to Egypt on Wednesday to discuss ending the crisis. That's the same day officials from the rival Palestinian Authority, whose forces Mubarak would prefer control the border crossing, will travel to Cairo for a separate meeting.
A central question in coming months will be Egypt's long-term relationship with Hamas and how the militant group will fit into a new Palestinian-Israeli peace initiative spurred by the Bush administration. Most Egyptians are skeptical of the peace effort, regarding it as a hurried plan by a lame-duck U.S. president that may embarrass their nation and other regional U.S. allies.
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