posted
The general consensus reached at the Cairo Symposium was that there was no evidence that the ancient Egyptians were white; that Egypt was not influenced by Mesopotamia, but the peoples from "the Great Lakes region in inner-equatorial Africa."
For centuries, this area of equatorial Africa has been called "The Mountain of the Moon" by the native inhabitants. As a matter of fact, in the language of Ki-Swahili, 'Kilimanjaro' means "Mountain of the Moon," as does the Burgunda word 'Rwenzori.' Kilimanjaro, the tallest mountain in Africa, rises to a height of 19,340 feet. The second major contributor to the waters of the White Nile is the Rwenzori Mountains, which border the countries of Uganda and Zaire.
The symposium also rejected the notion that Pharaonic Egyptian, which remained a stable language for more than 4,500 years, was influenced by Semitic language (of the pseudo-named phylum "Afro-Asiatic"). The proceedings of the conference were published by UNESCO in 1978.
One of the most significant revelations presented at the Cairo Symposium was Diop's development of the "Melanin Dosage Test." This one simple test provided the means by which one could determine the PHENOTYPE of the Egyptian royal mummies by examining the melanin content present in their skin.
The test involved the acquisition of specimens, consisting of a few square millimeters of mummified skin, which were then coated with ethyl benzoate and exposed to natural or ultra-violet light. This procedure rendered the melanin granules in the skin specimen fluorescent, thus enabling them to be counted by Diop.
MELANIN DOSAGE TEST
quote: In practice it is possible to determine directly the skin color and hence the ethnic affiliations of the ancient Egyptians by microscopic analysis in the laboratory; I doubt if the sagacity of the researchers who have studied the question has overlooked the possibility.
Melanin (eumelanin), the chemical body responsible for skin pigmentation, is, broadly speaking, insoluble and is preserved for millions of years in the skins of fossil animals.
There is thus all the more reason for it to be readily recoverable in the skins of Egyptian mummies, despite a tenacious legend that the skin of mummies, tainted by the embalming material, is no longer susceptible of any analysis.
Although the epidermis is the main site of the melanin, the melanocytes penetrating the derm at the boundary between it and the epidermis, even where the latter has mostly been destroyed by the embalming materials, show a melanin level which is non-existent in the white-skinned races.
The samples I myself analyzed were taken in the physical anthropology laboratory of the Mus'ee de l'Homme in Paris off the mummies from the Marietta excavations in Egypt. ( This test indicated that these remains were of Black people. )
The same method is perfectly suitable for use on the royal mummies of Thutmoses III, Seti I and Ramses II in the Cairo Museum, which are in an excel state of preservation.
For two years past I have been vainly begging the curator of the Cairo Museum for similar samples to analyze. No more than a few square millimetres of skin would be required to mount a specimen, the preparations being a few um in thickness and lightened with ethyl benzoate.
They can be studied by natural light or with ultra-violet lighting which renders the melanin grains fluorescent.
Either way let us simply say that the evaluation of melanin level by microscopic examination is a laboratory method which enables us to classify the ancient Egyptians unquestionably among the black races.
By Cheikh Anta Diop
Official UNESCO report conclusion: “Although the preparatory working paper sent out by UNESCO gave particulars of what was desired, not all participants had prepared communications comparable with the painstakingly researched contributions of Professors Cheikh Anta Diop and Obenga. There was consequently a real lack of balance in the discussions.”
In plain English - Western Egyptology publicly got its plow cleaned!Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
Diop was a radical s cholar out on the edge. His work has been riddled by criticism in recent years. You should know that Wally or is the above piece just another wallyism?
Posts: 2036 | From: Texas | Registered: Sep 2009
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posted
The case was closed back then in 1974,eurocentrists have never provided any more new evidence of a white egypt since, all papers have since comfirmed obenda and diop suppositions.
Posts: 96 | Registered: Dec 2007
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quote:Originally posted by mentu: The case was closed back then in 1974,eurocentrists have never provided any more new evidence of a white egypt since, all papers have since comfirmed obenda and diop suppositions.
THOSE CAUGHT IN A LIE, USUALLY DENY IT. HOWEVER, IF THE TRUTH IS OVERWHELMING, THEY WILL, IF THEY CAN, SIMPLY IGNORE IT...
Here's a book that everyone seriously interested in Ancient Egypt should read. It is a compilation of the papers prepared for and a report on the discussion on the Symposium organized by UNESCO and subsequently published for preparation and publication of a General History of Africa.
And Finally the coup d'etat; Prof Diop invited participants to produce comparable representations of whites in dignified or commanding postures dating from early Pharaonic times of which non was produced by any of the invitees.Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
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quote:Originally posted by mentu: The case was closed back then in 1974,eurocentrists have never provided any more new evidence of a white egypt since, all papers have since comfirmed obenda and diop suppositions.
I agree. They lost the fight in the 70s. What they've done since then is gone out of their way to destroy the credibility of serious researchers like Diop and others who pop up to challenge their viewpoint. Anyone who supports an African Egypt is deemed afrocentrist. It's a history of denialism and academic elitism.
Posts: 1219 | From: North Carolina, USA | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Hammer: Just a casual search around the net finds Diop under attack and discredited.
Yea. By people like you. Diop wasn't perfect, but he wasn't full of sh*t either. That's much more than I can say about you. People can criticize Darwin and Einstein (which some do a lot actually). Any scientific work can be challenged. But the onus of proof is then put onto YOU to show why he's wrong.
Posts: 1219 | From: North Carolina, USA | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
^ Indeed. While Diop was wrong about some things, his main premise that ancient Egypt was a black African civilization is confirmed by all mainstream scientific and academic studies. Of course the hammered professor is just in denial of this as usual.
quote:Originally posted by Hammered: Diop was a radical scholar out on the edge. His work has been riddled by criticism in recent years. You should know that Wally or is the above piece just another wallyism?
And yet recent scholarship has proven Diop to be right!
Not only has it been shown that ancient Egypt's culture and people are indigenous to the African continent, but that even recent melanin tests on mummies confirm what their skin color was like:
Biotechnic & Histochemistry 2005, 80(1): 7_/13
"Materials and methods In 1997, the German Institute for Archaeology headed an excavation of the tombs of the nobles in Thebes-West, Upper Egypt. At this time, three types of tissues were sampled from different mummies: meniscus (fibrocartilage), skin, and placenta. Archaeological findings suggest that the mummies dated from the New Kingdom (approximately 1550_/1080 BC). The basal epithelial cells were packed with melanin as expected for specimens of Negroid origin."Posts: 26236 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
...this posting, which I inadvertently started as a new topic, should have actually been posted here because it reflects the continuing scientific investigations stemming from the 1974 Cairo conference...It's an update:
quote:Originally posted by Wally: This site was provided by Nehesy. I used Google translate to give us the English translation from the French...
Letter from Cairo
quote:SOME GENETIC FEATURES OF ANCIENT EGYPTIANS
As part of research conducted by the Cairo University in collaboration with the Higher Council of Antiquities, it has been possible to achieve the anthropological characteristics of the Pharaohs.
According to preliminary indications, we reached a number of traits of the Pharaohs. It was possible to identify genes for size, color and eye color and hair of the king in the Pharaonic era in which samples were collected. They were placed on mummies in sarcophagi. A group of researchers has been able to separate those genes that have proven that the ancient Egyptians were not taller as previously thought. Their size was rather average, with the exception of Ramses II, whose analysis of genes has proven to be cut.
It has also been demonstrated that his skin was brown and his hair was black, not red. The color red has been found on his mummy is due to a dye (probably henna). His eyes were black with a slight tinge of brown.
Amenhotep III was short of stature, the color of his skin was a light brown. His eyes and his hair was black dark. These features show that the kings were related. All the kings at that time had a common origin in the family tree of the royal family. It is possible to determine a precise dates and times in the future. This research will confirm certain anthropological traits that have been studied before on the Pharaonic mummies. This will give preliminary indications about the traits, diseases and characteristics of the Pharaohs.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Wally: ...this posting, which I inadvertently started as a new topic, should have actually been posted here because it reflects the continuing scientific investigations stemming from the 1974 Cairo conference...It's an update:
quote:Originally posted by Wally: This site was provided by Nehesy. I used Google translate to give us the English translation from the French...
Letter from Cairo
quote:SOME GENETIC FEATURES OF ANCIENT EGYPTIANS
As part of research conducted by the Cairo University in collaboration with the Higher Council of Antiquities, it has been possible to achieve the anthropological characteristics of the Pharaohs.
According to preliminary indications, we reached a number of traits of the Pharaohs. It was possible to identify genes for size, color and eye color and hair of the king in the Pharaonic era in which samples were collected. They were placed on mummies in sarcophagi. A group of researchers has been able to separate those genes that have proven that the ancient Egyptians were not taller as previously thought. Their size was rather average, with the exception of Ramses II, whose analysis of genes has proven to be cut.
It has also been demonstrated that his skin was brown and his hair was black, not red. The color red has been found on his mummy is due to a dye (probably henna). His eyes were black with a slight tinge of brown.
Amenhotep III was short of stature, the color of his skin was a light brown. His eyes and his hair was black dark. These features show that the kings were related. All the kings at that time had a common origin in the family tree of the royal family. It is possible to determine a precise dates and times in the future. This research will confirm certain anthropological traits that have been studied before on the Pharaonic mummies. This will give preliminary indications about the traits, diseases and characteristics of the Pharaohs.
The Egyptian Information Service lists no letter entitled:
CERTAINS TRAITS GENETIQUES DES EGYPTIENS ANCIENS
Or the english translation:
SOME GENETIC FEATURES OF ANCIENT EGYPTIANS
_______________________________________
The so called "Melanin Dosage Test" doesn't exist. It's a myth and not part of forensics.
1. Before you make assertions like the above. Check to make sure you are right. I haven't but I know Diop wasn't the only one that did this test. Remember that paper, by the Germans scientist(?), that talked about the skin "packed with melanin". Seems like. . . the test IS possible. Do I need to research and post?
edit:==
The content of melanin in the skin can be calculated by the formula below: Mx=500/log5. Log(infrared-reflection)/ (red-reflection)+log5 The biggest rate between one types of light and another is1: 5, so the testing range is 0-99. The formula is invented by Mr. Max, a professor from Cardiff unversity, Germany. The bigger the calue measured is, the higher the content of melanin is skin is.
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: ^ no wonder you are sexually confused.
1. Before you make assertions like the above. Check to make sure you are right. I haven't but I know Diop wasn't the only one that did this test. Remember that paper, by the Germans scientist(?), that talked about the skin "packed with melanin". Seems like. . . the test IS possible. Do I need to research and post?
edit:==
The content of melanin in the skin can be calculated by the formula below: Mx=500/log5. Log(infrared-reflection)/ (red-reflection)+log5 The biggest rate between one types of light and another is1: 5, so the testing range is 0-99. The formula is invented by Mr. Max, a professor from Cardiff unversity, Germany. The bigger the calue measured is, the higher the content of melanin is skin is.
funny xyyman,
you list the description dubious hair and beauty care electronic device currently being sold by a Chinese beauty care company to help in analyzing skin bleaching products.
posted
the lioness (?) This person is a bona fide Idiot
Idiot: someone who acts in a self-defeating or significantly counterproductive way.
...Kinda reminds me of racists like Hammer, who constantly make totally unsubstantiated statements:
quote:the lioness wrote: The letter "Some Genetic Features of Ancient Egyptian" is a fake...
This document was originally culled from the Egyptian Government's website.
quote:the lioness wrote: Professor C.A. Diop's Melanin Dosage Test is a myth...
This scientific method is now a part of American forensic science...
---So, "the lioness" keep on posting your idiocy and completely making an ass of yourself...
Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
My problem is I assume everyone is as intelligent as me.
I clearly started I did NOT research the Melanin test. But I remember it being done by a german scientist per "packed with Melanin" cited many times here before.
To the idiot. That means skin melanin test IS possible. All one has to do is . . . . .RESEARCH it.
And from what Wally just posted. It is being used. . . . TODAY
LOL!!!!!!
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: ^ no wonder you are sexually confused.
1. Before you make assertions like the above. Check to make sure you are right. I haven't but I know Diop wasn't the only one that did this test. Remember that paper, by the Germans scientist(?), that talked about the skin "packed with melanin". Seems like. . . the test IS possible. Do I need to research and post?
edit:==
The content of melanin in the skin can be calculated by the formula below: Mx=500/log5. Log(infrared-reflection)/ (red-reflection)+log5 The biggest rate between one types of light and another is1: 5, so the testing range is 0-99. The formula is invented by Mr. Max, a professor from Cardiff unversity, Germany. The bigger the calue measured is, the higher the content of melanin is skin is.
funny xyyman,
you list the description dubious hair and beauty care electronic device currently being sold by a Chinese beauty care company to help in analyzing skin bleaching products.
posted
Wally's hustle is to avoid sources. When forced to and then somebody checks to verify, we find that the Egyptian Information Service (of the Egyptian Government) lists no such "Letter to Cairo" called
CERTAINS TRAITS GENETIQUES DES EGYPTIENS ANCIENS
Or the english translation:
SOME GENETIC FEATURES OF ANCIENT EGYPTIANS
see for yourself, the "letter" is not published or listed:
Nowhere has Diop's 1970s "Melanin Dosage Test" been described in detail or verified. He claims to have "tested" a few "samples". Which samples were those. It's over 30 years ago. Why bother, when you have S.O.Y Keita and Kittles? Shows how old and crusty some of our Egptoeccentrics are getting
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
^ Does it really matter, especially when white European scientists from only a few years back have confirmed Diop??
Biotechnic & Histochemistry 2005, 80(1): 7_/13
"Materials and methods In 1997, the German Institute for Archaeology headed an excavation of the tombs of the nobles in Thebes-West, Upper Egypt. At this time, three types of tissues were sampled from different mummies: meniscus (fibrocartilage), skin, and placenta. Archaeological findings suggest that the mummies dated from the New Kingdom (approximately 1550_/1080 BC). The basal epithelial cells were packed with melanin as expected for specimens of Negroid origin."Posts: 26236 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ Does it really matter, especially when white European scientists from only a few years back have confirmed Diop??
Biotechnic & Histochemistry 2005, 80(1): 7_/13
"Materials and methods In 1997, the German Institute for Archaeology headed an excavation of the tombs of the nobles in Thebes-West, Upper Egypt. At this time, three types of tissues were sampled from different mummies: meniscus (fibrocartilage), skin, and placenta. Archaeological findings suggest that the mummies dated from the New Kingdom (approximately 1550_/1080 BC). The basal epithelial cells were packed with melanin as expected for specimens of Negroid origin."
Interesting, does anybody have the full study from:
BBiotechnic & Histochemistry, Vol. 80, No. 1. , pp. 7-8
article:
Determination of optimal rehydration, fixation and staining methods for histological and immunohistochemical analysis of mummified soft tissues
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ Does it really matter, especially when white European scientists from only a few years back have confirmed Diop??
Biotechnic & Histochemistry 2005, 80(1): 7_/13
"Materials and methods In 1997, the German Institute for Archaeology headed an excavation of the tombs of the nobles in Thebes-West, Upper Egypt. At this time, three types of tissues were sampled from different mummies: meniscus (fibrocartilage), skin, and placenta. Archaeological findings suggest that the mummies dated from the New Kingdom (approximately 1550_/1080 BC). The basal epithelial cells were packed with melanin as expected for specimens of Negroid origin."
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
Here is another one. This is not rocket science.
WTF - Why debate this shyte.
ESR has the full study. There are many others.
======= Histologic findings in mummified skin Thomas A. Chapel, M.D., Amir H. Mehregan, M.D., and Theodore A. Reyman, M.D. Detroit, MJ Skin specimens from five mummies were examined histologically. The specimens ranged in age from 2,000 to 3,200 years . Material from two mummies had carbonized and showed only amorphous debris. The histology of the three remaining skin fragments retained surprising histologic architectural detail. One specimen obtained from the sole of the foot was compatible with a callus. (J AM ACAD DERMATOL 4:27-30 , 1981.)
====
Egyptian mummies were prepared by chemical dehydration, and the skin was covered with plant resin or mineral pitch prior to elaborate wrapping. Despite these factors, many areas of the skin of these mummies have been well preserved. The dehydration procedures and the passage of centuries have made the skin hard, brittle, and virtually water-free. However, following rehydration and histologic processing, surprising morphologic detail often remains . This report describes the histologic findings of skin fragments from five Egyptian mummies, although experience of one of us (T. A . R.) suggests that the changes in the Aleutian and North and South American mummies are similar.
=====
The specimens ranged in age from 2 ,000 to 3,200 years . The first four specimens were random skin sections, while the one from the Royal Ontario Museum mummy consisted of one of two contiguous papules, 0.3 to 0.5 em, from the sole of the right foot in the area of the second and third metatarsal heads
===== Fig. 1. Tissue from the nape of the neck shows a deeply pigmented epidermis. Occasional clear cells (arrow) are recognized at the dermoepidermal junction. In the papillary connective tissue are nuclei of fibroblasts. (Hematoxylin-eosin stain; X60.)
=====
Fig. 2. In the deep dermis is an acutely curved hair follicle suggesting formation of a[u] kinky hair shaft[/u]. (Hematoxylin-eosin stain; x60.)
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by xyymanlover: Thank you Mary.
Sorry but I'm not into that transgender roleplay crap that you and your boyfriend Anguished are into. Don't get mad at me cuz your albino fantasies don't hold up to reality. Posts: 26236 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
As I asked. Are you lazy? Practically the whole study is there. Decided not to upload. But copy and paste relevant portions.
Search around you will find it.
A link to the other study is posted on ESR.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: As I asked. Are you lazy? Practically the whole study is there. Decided not to upload. But copy and paste relevant portions.
Search around you will find it.
A link to the other study is posted on ESR.
it costs $37. Can you loan me the money?
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
PM you digits. lol! hope you are not a she-male.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
Anyway what's the point? The other study, which is free, is more informative. The study clearly states the mummies are deeply pigmented AND had kinky hair.
Sure they are not talking about Greeks. LOL!!!
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Wally: The general consensus reached at the Cairo Symposium was that there was no evidence that the ancient Egyptians were white; that Egypt was not influenced by Mesopotamia, but the peoples from "the Great Lakes region in inner-equatorial Africa."
For centuries, this area of equatorial Africa has been called "The Mountain of the Moon" by the native inhabitants. As a matter of fact, in the language of Ki-Swahili, 'Kilimanjaro' means "Mountain of the Moon," as does the Burgunda word 'Rwenzori.' Kilimanjaro, the tallest mountain in Africa, rises to a height of 19,340 feet. The second major contributor to the waters of the White Nile is the Rwenzori Mountains, which border the countries of Uganda and Zaire.
The symposium also rejected the notion that Pharaonic Egyptian, which remained a stable language for more than 4,500 years, was influenced by Semitic language (of the pseudo-named phylum "Afro-Asiatic"). The proceedings of the conference were published by UNESCO in 1978.
One of the most significant revelations presented at the Cairo Symposium was Diop's development of the "Melanin Dosage Test." This one simple test provided the means by which one could determine the PHENOTYPE of the Egyptian royal mummies by examining the melanin content present in their skin.
The test involved the acquisition of specimens, consisting of a few square millimeters of mummified skin, which were then coated with ethyl benzoate and exposed to natural or ultra-violet light. This procedure rendered the melanin granules in the skin specimen fluorescent, thus enabling them to be counted by Diop.
MELANIN DOSAGE TEST
quote: In practice it is possible to determine directly the skin color and hence the ethnic affiliations of the ancient Egyptians by microscopic analysis in the laboratory; I doubt if the sagacity of the researchers who have studied the question has overlooked the possibility.
Melanin (eumelanin), the chemical body responsible for skin pigmentation, is, broadly speaking, insoluble and is preserved for millions of years in the skins of fossil animals.
There is thus all the more reason for it to be readily recoverable in the skins of Egyptian mummies, despite a tenacious legend that the skin of mummies, tainted by the embalming material, is no longer susceptible of any analysis.
Although the epidermis is the main site of the melanin, the melanocytes penetrating the derm at the boundary between it and the epidermis, even where the latter has mostly been destroyed by the embalming materials, show a melanin level which is non-existent in the white-skinned races.
The samples I myself analyzed were taken in the physical anthropology laboratory of the Mus'ee de l'Homme in Paris off the mummies from the Marietta excavations in Egypt. ( This test indicated that these remains were of Black people. )
The same method is perfectly suitable for use on the royal mummies of Thutmoses III, Seti I and Ramses II in the Cairo Museum, which are in an excel state of preservation.
For two years past I have been vainly begging the curator of the Cairo Museum for similar samples to analyze. No more than a few square millimetres of skin would be required to mount a specimen, the preparations being a few um in thickness and lightened with ethyl benzoate.
They can be studied by natural light or with ultra-violet lighting which renders the melanin grains fluorescent.
Either way let us simply say that the evaluation of melanin level by microscopic examination is a laboratory method which enables us to classify the ancient Egyptians unquestionably among the black races.
By Cheikh Anta Diop
Official UNESCO report conclusion: “Although the preparatory working paper sent out by UNESCO gave particulars of what was desired, not all participants had prepared communications comparable with the painstakingly researched contributions of Professors Cheikh Anta Diop and Obenga. There was consequently a real lack of balance in the discussions.”
In plain English - Western Egyptology publicly got its plow cleaned!
posted
Both full studies are uploaded. Keep the money. You know what I want from you.. . . .
But seriously. This was NOT uploaded for YOU. You know that!?
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: As I asked. Are you lazy? Practically the whole study is there. Decided not to upload. But copy and paste relevant portions.
Search around you will find it.
A link to the other study is posted on ESR.
it costs $37. Can you loan me the money?
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Wikipedia: Diop published his technique and methodology for a melanin dosage test in scholarly journals. Diop used this technique to determine the melanin content of the Egyptian mummies. Forensic investigators later adopted this technique to determine the "racial identity" of badly burnt accident victims.
That this new technique was later adopted by the U.S. forensic department to determine the racial identity of badly burnt accident victims and has never acknowledged the author of this test; Cheikh Anta Diop...is ironic but not surprising...
Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
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quote:Wikipedia: Diop published his technique and methodology for a melanin dosage test in scholarly journals. Diop used this technique to determine the melanin content of the Egyptian mummies. Forensic investigators later adopted this technique to determine the "racial identity" of badly burnt accident victims.
That this new technique was later adopted by the U.S. forensic department to determine the racial identity of badly burnt accident victims and has never acknowledged the author of this test; Cheikh Anta Diop...is ironic but not surprising...
Wally do the basic research, in forensics race estimates use no method related to melanin. Your comment is complete nonsense. They use cranial and skeletal analysis. In your your example, if the person was badly burned there would be no skin to test anyway. If some white person were burnt to a crisp you'd probably say they were black. If some part of the person was not burnt there would be no need for a test. Don't look now here's some guys with plenty of melanin:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: Wally do the basic research...blah, blah,blah...
What a delightful idiot...
> Cannot descern the difference between 'badly burned victim' and 'totally burned victim.'
> Wants the U.S. Forensic department to abandon the use of its melanin dosage test as a research instrument, and restrict its tools of use to cranial and skeletal analysis; you know, just bones - no hair, no DNA...
> Then trots out his 'tired' photos of Black Asians for some inexplicable reason
His "is a tale Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing."
Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
^ And apparently the idiot cannot discern the difference between an AFRICAN and an ASIAN. Sorry but if you can't tell the difference between a northeast African and South Asian, we can't help you. Posts: 26236 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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Your stupidity is hilarious indeed and too easy to mock.
You should log off and end your life, since your life in this forum is obviously a joke.
Posts: 26236 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ Yes there is; it's called the FBI LAB Services, dummy!
Your stupidity is hilarious indeed and too easy to mock.
You should log off and end your life, since your life in this forum is obviously a joke.
Like I said there is no "U.S. Forensics Department"
What's in a name, go find anything that represents a melanin test in the F.B.I's forensics department
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
Djehuti, I really doubt that the **Stormfronter will be able to comprehend or connect the following to what has already been presented:
In 2010, the requirements for a degree in Forensic pathology is education after high school of typically 13 years in duration, which shall also include:
ELEMENTARY BIOLOGY What Causes Skin Color Differences? The presence of different amounts of pigments scattered through the basal layer of the epidermis causes skin color differences. The most important of these pigments is the brownish-black substance called melanin. Melanin is present to some degree in all people. Individuals who lack melanin completely are called Albinos. Those of us with dark brown or black skin have a great deal of melanin. Others of us who have medium or light brown skin have less of it, while those people with very light brown or "white" skin possess very little melanin. The different skin colors are seen because, while the color of the melanin in different people is the same, the amount of it is not. Now, how does one provide the scientific method of determining this amount?
The Melanin Dosage test has been accepted by American Science...
<><><>
**Typical response from Stormfront: "His melanin dosage testing method is not scientifically sound as it failed to consider possible ramifications due to the mummification process."
Well...it seems that Diop had already anticipated this idiocy, when he wrote and which I included in my opening post:
"despite a tenacious legend that the skin of mummies, tainted by the embalming material, is no longer susceptible of any analysis.
Although the epidermis is the main site of the melanin, the melanocytes penetrating the derm at the boundary between it and the epidermis, even where the latter has mostly been destroyed by the embalming materials, show a melanin level which is non-existent in the white-skinned races."
Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
^ Indeed, the poor pathetic lyingass fool is being decimated in one thread. How many threads must she be humiliated in?
Of course melanin dosage testing is valid as it measures the amount of pigment in the skin. Why shouldn't it be valid compared to other tests like craniometrics which we know is not too accurate since we know craniofacial features among humans are too diverse.
Biotechnic & Histochemistry 2005, 80(1): 7_/13
"Materials and methods In 1997, the German Institute for Archaeology headed an excavation of the tombs of the nobles in Thebes-West, Upper Egypt. At this time, three types of tissues were sampled from different mummies: meniscus (fibrocartilage), skin, and placenta. Archaeological findings suggest that the mummies dated from the New Kingdom (approximately 1550_/1080 BC). The basal epithelial cells were packed with melanin as expected for specimens of Negroid origin."
Can the Lyingass find a way to refute the above? I don't think so. Posts: 26236 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
^^ ] Here is another one. This is not rocket science.
WTF - Why debate this shyte.
ESR has the full study. There are many others.
======= Histologic findings in mummified skin Thomas A. Chapel, M.D., Amir H. Mehregan, M.D., and Theodore A. Reyman, M.D. Detroit, MJ Skin specimens from five mummies were examined histologically. The specimens ranged in age from 2,000 to 3,200 years . Material from two mummies had carbonized and showed only amorphous debris. The histology of the three remaining skin fragments retained surprising histologic architectural detail. One specimen obtained from the sole of the foot was compatible with a callus. (J AM ACAD DERMATOL 4:27-30 , 1981.)
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Egyptian mummies were prepared by chemical dehydration, and the skin was covered with plant resin or mineral pitch prior to elaborate wrapping. Despite these factors, many areas of the skin of these mummies have been well preserved. The dehydration procedures and the passage of centuries have made the skin hard, brittle, and virtually water-free. However, following rehydration and histologic processing, surprising morphologic detail often remains . This report describes the histologic findings of skin fragments from five Egyptian mummies, although experience of one of us (T. A . R.) suggests that the changes in the Aleutian and North and South American mummies are similar.
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The specimens ranged in age from 2 ,000 to 3,200 years . The first four specimens were random skin sections, while the one from the Royal Ontario Museum mummy consisted of one of two contiguous papules, 0.3 to 0.5 em, from the sole of the right foot in the area of the second and third metatarsal heads
===== Fig. 1. Tissue from the nape of the neck shows a deeply pigmented epidermis. Occasional clear cells (arrow) are recognized at the dermoepidermal junction. In the papillary connective tissue are nuclei of fibroblasts. (Hematoxylin-eosin stain; X60.)
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Fig. 2. In the deep dermis is an acutely curved hair follicle suggesting formation of a[u] kinky hair shaft[/u]. (Hematoxylin-eosin stain; x60.)
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
To be honest, both of those studies on mummies are rather vague when describing pigmentation. What exactly is the range of melanin content for people of "Negroid" origin? Exactly how deeply pigmented was the epidermis? And how do these mummies compare to people from other populations with regards to skin color?
I am pursuing a career in biological anthropology, and it is my ambition to measure the melanin content in Egyptian mummies and compare it to other populations. That will resolve the great debate once and for all!
Posts: 7069 | From: Fallbrook, CA | Registered: Mar 2004
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It's always some way or another to go around the fact that ancient Egyptians had a skin color that is seen among all other Africans.
Even living blacks aren't spared from being called Caucasian...
People believe what they want to believe, not what is most logical to believe.
This forum is a living example, just look at all the fruitcakes in both camps.
Logic dictates that the ancient Egyptians had melanin levels that one would expect from people in Africa. If not, I'd like to know the alternative scenario that can unify all evidence that has accumulated so far.
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Kalonji: ^I wouldn't count on it.
It's always some way or another to go around the fact that ancient Egyptians had a skin color that is seen among all other Africans.
Even living blacks aren't spared from being called Caucasian...
People believe what they want to believe, not what is most logical to believe.
This forum is a living example, just look at all the fruitcakes in both camps.
Logic dictates that the ancient Egyptians had melanin levels that one would expect from people in Africa. If not, I'd like to know the alternative scenario that can unify all evidence that has accumulated so far.
True, idiots will cling to their beliefs regardless of what contrary evidence you show them, but a melanin study like the one I plan to conduct would resolve the debate among more level-headed, critically thinking people. If the results end up what we expect them to be, black Egypt will become the scientific consensus, and that is what we should be aiming for.
Posts: 7069 | From: Fallbrook, CA | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Truthcentric: [QB] To be honest, both of those studies on mummies are rather vague when describing pigmentation. What exactly is the range of melanin content for people of "Negroid"
whatever you want it to be, that shall be the yardstick of Negroid measurement. It's up to you to determine such a point.
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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However vaque the word ''Negroid'' is, and regardless how many asian blacks there are with similar features as Africans, the fact remains that by that term, both Mulattoe and European can be neatly excluded from being a suitable category to classify the specimens analised.
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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The general consensus reached at the Cairo Symposium was that there was no evidence that the ancient Egyptians were white; that Egypt was not influenced by Mesopotamia, but the peoples from "the Great Lakes region in inner-equatorial Africa."
For centuries, this area of equatorial Africa has been called "The Mountain of the Moon" by the native inhabitants. As a matter of fact, in the language of Ki-Swahili, 'Kilimanjaro' means "Mountain of the Moon," as does the Burgunda word 'Rwenzori.' Kilimanjaro, the tallest mountain in Africa, rises to a height of 19,340 feet. The second major contributor to the waters of the White Nile is the Rwenzori Mountains, which border the countries of Uganda and Zaire.
The symposium also rejected the notion that Pharaonic Egyptian, which remained a stable language for more than 4,500 years, was influenced by Semitic language (of the pseudo-named phylum "Afro-Asiatic"). The proceedings of the conference were published by UNESCO in 1978.
One of the most significant revelations presented at the Cairo Symposium was Diop's development of the "Melanin Dosage Test." This one simple test provided the means by which one could determine the PHENOTYPE of the Egyptian royal mummies by examining the melanin content present in their skin.
The test involved the acquisition of specimens, consisting of a few square millimeters of mummified skin, which were then coated with ethyl benzoate and exposed to natural or ultra-violet light. This procedure rendered the melanin granules in the skin specimen fluorescent, thus enabling them to be counted by Diop.
MELANIN DOSAGE TEST
quote: In practice it is possible to determine directly the skin color and hence the ethnic affiliations of the ancient Egyptians by microscopic analysis in the laboratory; I doubt if the sagacity of the researchers who have studied the question has overlooked the possibility.
Melanin (eumelanin), the chemical body responsible for skin pigmentation, is, broadly speaking, insoluble and is preserved for millions of years in the skins of fossil animals.
There is thus all the more reason for it to be readily recoverable in the skins of Egyptian mummies, despite a tenacious legend that the skin of mummies, tainted by the embalming material, is no longer susceptible of any analysis.
Although the epidermis is the main site of the melanin, the melanocytes penetrating the derm at the boundary between it and the epidermis, even where the latter has mostly been destroyed by the embalming materials, show a melanin level which is non-existent in the white-skinned races.
The samples I myself analyzed were taken in the physical anthropology laboratory of the Mus'ee de l'Homme in Paris off the mummies from the Marietta excavations in Egypt. ( This test indicated that these remains were of Black people. )
The same method is perfectly suitable for use on the royal mummies of Thutmoses III, Seti I and Ramses II in the Cairo Museum, which are in an excellent state of preservation.
For two years past I have been vainly begging the curator of the Cairo Museum for similar samples to analyze. No more than a few square millimetres of skin would be required to mount a specimen, the preparations being a few um in thickness and lightened with ethyl benzoate.
They can be studied by natural light or with ultra-violet lighting which renders the melanin grains fluorescent.
Either way let us simply say that the evaluation of melanin level by microscopic examination is a laboratory method which enables us to classify the ancient Egyptians unquestionably among the black races.
By Cheikh Anta Diop
Official UNESCO report conclusion: “Although the preparatory working paper sent out by UNESCO gave particulars of what was desired, not all participants had prepared communications comparable with the painstakingly researched contributions of Professors Cheikh Anta Diop and Obenga. There was consequently a real lack of balance in the discussions.”
In plain English - Western Egyptology publicly got its plow cleaned!
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