posted
^ That's not too far from where this painting was found.
Just curious, but do you know if the Ait Mgoum or other tribes in the area display steatopygea too? LOLPosts: 26236 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ That's not too far from where this painting was found.
Just curious, but do you know if the Ait Mgoum or other tribes in the area display steatopygea too? LOL
Removed from its context, what is this and what are you using it to promote? I can see ithyphallic steatopygous and complexion characteristics like in South African rock art depicting San.
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posted
^ It's funny you should mention the comparison to San because the rock art image I posted comes from the Atlas Mountains of Morocco! I guess you missed it when Amun-Ra first posted the pic on another thread. It was discovered in the Atlas Mountains by a Susan Searight. My point of posting that picture was that it probably gives us a clue as to how the indigenes of the Atlas Mountain area looked like. That it bears a striking resemblance to the art of South African San may be an indication of a commonality that reaches to times immemorial. That's why I asked if you know of Berber tribes in the area displaying such traits as steatopygea. In fact many Western anthropologists in a time not long ago postulated 'Bushmanoid' types as being aboriginal to North Africa.
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"These two individuals may be considered representatives of the Mediterranean invaders who entered western Europe over Gibraltar in the Neolithic"
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posted
Comparison Khoisan to Aboriginal Austrailian
Ironically the Khoisan looks relatively closer to an East Asian than does the Austrailian who is much closer geographically
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ It's funny you should mention the comparison to San because the rock art image I posted comes from the Atlas Mountains of Morocco! I guess you missed it when Amun-Ra first posted the pic on another thread. It was discovered in the Atlas Mountains by a Susan Searight. My point of posting that picture was that it probably gives us a clue as to how the indigenes of the Atlas Mountain area looked like. That it bears a striking resemblance to the art of South African San may be an indication of a commonality that reaches to times immemorial. That's why I asked if you know of Berber tribes in the area displaying such traits as steatopygea. In fact many Western anthropologists in a time not long ago postulated 'Bushmanoid' types as being aboriginal to North Africa.
I saw it earlier. Other than those three features it tells me nothing about indigenous Atlas Moroccans except whoever these folk are they used bows. Posting images, charts, and graphs citationless and outside of context can be misleading. Guess I'll have to get Searight's book to learn about this piece.
The Lioness posted some stuff I remember seeing long ago about NA phenotype similarities to Click speakers.
Old school anthropology remarked on "Khoisan"- like people in NA. It was disputed and dropped but art like this and nrY DNA support the discredited idea. We need to revisit it.
Sorry, I know no steatopygous NAs besides the usual phatasses nearly all populations can have. Whites seem to have developed it to some extent from eating meat raised on estrogen supplements.
Also a precision. The lady is an Ait Mgoun (not Mgoum).
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posted
^ I don't know why you're citing studies on Central African speakers when the topic is on North Africans. As for the old Coon stuff, you're beginning to sound like Anglo-idiot. We know the phenotype of North Africans is diverse and one can easily point out Khoisan-like features among certain groups. And we know that what you and others call 'Australoid' features are merely archaic features which are preserved in a number of populations including groups in North Africa.
More recent photos of North Africans who look San.
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler:
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ It's funny you should mention the comparison to San because the rock art image I posted comes from the Atlas Mountains of Morocco! I guess you missed it when Amun-Ra first posted the pic on another thread. It was discovered in the Atlas Mountains by a Susan Searight. My point of posting that picture was that it probably gives us a clue as to how the indigenes of the Atlas Mountain area looked like. That it bears a striking resemblance to the art of South African San may be an indication of a commonality that reaches to times immemorial. That's why I asked if you know of Berber tribes in the area displaying such traits as steatopygea. In fact many Western anthropologists in a time not long ago postulated 'Bushmanoid' types as being aboriginal to North Africa.
I saw it earlier. Other than those three features it tells me nothing about indigenous Atlas Moroccans except whoever these folk are they used bows. Posting images, charts, and graphs citationless and outside of context can be misleading. Guess I'll have to get Searight's book to learn about this piece.
The Lioness posted some stuff I remember seeing long ago about NA phenotype similarities to Click speakers.
Old school anthropology remarked on "Khoisan"- like people in NA. It was disputed and dropped but art like this and nrY DNA support the discredited idea. We need to revisit it.
Sorry, I know no steatopygous NAs besides the usual phatasses nearly all populations can have. Whites seem to have developed it to some extent from eating meat raised on estrogen supplements.
Also a precision. The lady is an Ait Mgoun (not Mgoum).
Yeah, I admit years ago I used to entertain that old theory of old Khoisan groups in North Africa. Though 'Khoisan' is a poor choice of words, I do know that early populations in North Africa prior to the Holocene did share craniofacial traits with them as well as other Sub-Saharan groups so I don't know why the relation is limited to Southern African San only when there are populations immediately adjacent who are far more related. There are authors who postulate origins in East Africa for both southern African Khoisan and pre-Holocene North Africans.
In the sum, the results obtained further strengthen the results from previous analyses. The affinities between Nazlet Khater, MSA, and Khoisan and Khoisan related groups re-emerges. In addition it is possible to detect a separation between North African and sub-saharan populations, with the Neolithic Saharan population from Hasi el Abiod and the Egyptian Badarian group being closely affiliated with modern Negroid groups. Similarly, the Epipaleolithic populations from Site 117 and Wadi Halfa are also affiliated with sub-Saharan LSA, Iron Age and modern Negroid groups rather than with contemporaneous North African populations such as Taforalt and the Ibero-maurusian. -- Pierre M. Vermeersch (Author & Editor), 'Palaeolithic quarrying sites in Upper and Middle Egypt', Egyptian Prehistory Monographs Vol. 4, Leuven University Press (2002).
Both hypotheses are compatible with the hypothesis proposed by Brothwell (1963) of an East African proto-Khoisan Negro stock which migrated southwards and westwards at some time during the Upper Pleistocene, and replaced most of the local populations of South Africa. Under such circumstances, it is possible that the Nazlet Khater specimen is part of a relict population of this proto-Khoisan Negro stock which extended as far north as Nazlet Khater at least until the late part of the Late Pleistocene. --- The Position of the Nazlet Khater Specimen Among Prehistoric and Modern African and Levantine Populations, Ron Pinhasi, Departent of Biological Anthropology, University of Cambridge, U.K., Patrick Semal, Belgian Institute of Natural Sciences, Belgium; Journal of Human Evolution (2000) vol. 39.
As for the rock painting, I don't know how old it's dated but note that there are many rock paintings throughout North Africa showing steatopygous forms.
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Plate 19. GYPSIES, DARK-SKINNED MEDITERRANEANS, AND SOUTH ARABIAN VEDDOIDS
The Gypsies, who are believed to have left their home in the lower Indus Valley about the turn of the present millennium, and who arrived in Europe some four centuries later, belong, when comparatively unmixed, to a dark-skinned, small-bodied racial type of general Mediterranean appearance which is common in India.
FIG.. 1 (2 views, photo V.. Lebzelter, from "Anthropologische Untersuchungen an serbischen Ziguenern," MAGW, vol. 52, 1922). A nomadic Serbian Gypsy, appar- entJy relatively pure, who shows the characteristic Gypsy combination of straight jet black hair, black eyes, and dark skin; in connection with Mediterranean facial features.
FIG. 2 (2 views).. An English Gypsy of the Cooper family, whose ancestors moved to New England a century ago. Although some of the Coopers and Stanleys are blue- eyed and show other signs of non-Gypsy mixture, this individual possesses a sallow brownish skin, straight, coarse, shiny black hair, and dark brown eyes. He is appar- ently a relatively pure representative of the Gypsy prototype
FIG.3 (2 views). Of much greater antiquity outside of India is a dark-skinned, black- eyed, and straight-haired Mediterranean type which appears with some frequency in southern Iraq and along the coasts of the Persian Gulf. This young sailor from Kuwait will serve as an example. The origin and affiliations of this type have not as yet been fully explained.
FIG. 4 (2 views). In southern Arabia, south of the Ruba' el Khali desert, the popula- tions consist of a Mediterranean upper stratum overlaid upon a non-white racial group whose affinities are with the Vedda of Ceylon, and the curly-haired aboriginal tribes of southern India; more remotely, it possesses strong connections with the aborigines of Australia.. The individual shown in FIG. 4 is an extreme example of this Veddoid pro- totype. Note the great prognathism, the ringlet hair form, the extreme nasion depres- sion, and the general form of the nose and lips. Except for his light unexposed skin color, this individual, who is quite brown where exposed, could pass for an Australian aborigine.
FIG. 5 (2 views). A coarse type of Hadhramauti, who represents a mixture between the Veddoid element shown above and the Mediterranean race; or who might be called a less extreme example of the former.
FIG. 6 (2 views, photo Wm. M. Shanklin). A coarse, dark-skinned type of Ruwalla Bedawi. Among the North Arabian Bedawin, besides the more delicately formed Medi- terranean types already observed, occur individuals who seem to show relationships with the Veddoid element on the other side of the desert, and perhaps also with the deeply pigmented element of southern Iraq, as exemplified by FIG. 3. Tribes and populations possessing these racial elements do not possess the normal 25 per cent of incipi- ent blondism characteristic of most Mediterranean groups
FIG. 1 (2 views, photo Ales Hrdlicka. From Hrdlicka, A., Anthropometric Survey of the Natives Of Kharga Oasis, Egypt; MCSI, vol. 59, #1, Washington, D. C., 1912, pl. 14). An oasis dweller from Kharga. This extremely dolichocephalic, low-vaulted, and relatively low-nosed Mediterranean sub-type is typical of the inhabitants of the oases of the Libyan desert, in Siwa and Awjla, where Berber is spoken, as well as in Arabic- speaking Kharga.
FIG. 2 (2 views, photo N. Puccioni, Puccioni, N., Anthropometria delle Genti della Cire- naica, Firenze, 1936, Tab. XVI, #277). A tall, slender North African Arab from the tribe of el Hasa in Cyrenaica. The narrow, prominent nose, the sloping forehead, and the protruding occiput are features typical of the nomadic Arabs of North Africa from Cyrenaica to the Atlantic.
FIG. 3 (2 views, from Zeltner, F. de, " A Propos des Touareg du Sud," RA, vol. 25, 1915, p. 172;
FIG. 3 from original blocks). A young Bourzeinat Tuareg, from the region of Timbuctu; this southern Tuareg shows clearly the Mediterranean character of this Saharan Berber people. Pictures of unveiled Tuareg men are very rare.
FIG. 4 (2 views, photo H. H. Kidder). A moderately tall, long-faced Algerian Kabyle.
FIG. 5 (2 views); A small Mediterranean who may be taken as a type example of this race in its North African form. This individual is a Shluh Berber from the Sous, south- ern Morocco.
FIG. 6 (2 views). An equally standardized Mediterranean from the Riffian coastal tribe of Beni Itteft, northern Morocco. These two individuals may be considered repre- sentatives of the Mediterranean invaders who entered western Europe over Gibraltar in the Neolithic.
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
^ A lot of those are not what they are labelled as. For example Fig.1 of the Kharga Oasis man is described as having a Negroid component by Coon, as is Fig. 3.
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: [QB] ^ I don't know why you're citing studies on Central African speakers when the topic is on North Africans. As for the old Coon stuff, you're beginning to sound like Anglo-idiot. We know the phenotype of North Africans is diverse and one can easily point out Khoisan-like features among certain groups. And we know that what you and others call 'Australoid' features are merely archaic features which are preserved in a number of populations including groups in North Africa.
More recent photos of North Africans who look San.
Are the people in the pictures an isolated group? Like they live in the rural areas? Because to be quite honest I've never seen such features like that on North Africans. I know North Africans are very diverse. But the girl in the first picture on the right looks Southeast Asia like Cambodia.
Posts: 1135 | From: Top secret | Registered: Jun 2012
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quote:Originally posted by Faheemdunkers: ^ A lot of those are not what they are labelled as. For example Fig.1 of the Kharga Oasis man is described as having a Negroid component by Coon, as is Fig. 3.
prove that that is not the correct caption as the picture appeared in the book.
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posted
They appear in the book. I'm pointing out if you then go to the specific pages where he describes them, he notes they are part Negroid.
- As I already explained to Swenet and the others (who are too dumb to get it), Coon didn't have the time to establish countless hybrid types, so many times he just lumped individuals who show admixture under a "pure" racial type, much like John Baker (also since both weren't strict typologists, you can find lumping throughout their works).
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quote:Originally posted by Faheemdunkers: They appear in the book. I'm pointing out if you then go to the specific pages where he describes them, he notes they are part Negroid.
- As I already explained to Swenet and the others (who are too dumb to get it), Coon didn't have the time to establish countless hybrid types, so many times he just lumped individuals who show admixture under a "pure" racial type, much like John Baker (also since both weren't strict typologists, you can find lumping throughout their works).
In many cases it's subjective to indicate a type is 'hybrid' on a biological level a mixture of 'pure' things. That can't always be done by looking it has to be done genetically. If you look at point B you can't always assume it's a hybrid of A and C because evolutionarily speaking there could have been a point where C didn't even exist yet. Therefore B was not a product of a mixture between A and C. B was an outgrowth of A and C was an outgrowth of B. The fact that B might look like a hybrid doesn't mean it is a hybrid and is less 'pure' than C
Genetics are a deeper more intenal way of looking at things yet your prefer the external more superfical way of looking at things. You often talk about what's ugly and what's pretty. But like looking at things genetically, character, intelligence and talent are internal things and trump superficial things like prettiness and external 'beauty'. . Carlton Coon on the existence of BigfootPosts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ I don't know why you're citing studies on Central African speakers when the topic is on North Africans. As for the old Coon stuff, you're beginning to sound like Anglo-idiot. We know the phenotype of North Africans is diverse and one can easily point out Khoisan-like features among certain groups. And we know that what you and others call 'Australoid' features are merely archaic features which are preserved in a number of populations including groups in North Africa.
More recent photos of North Africans who look San.
Are the people in the pictures an isolated group? Like they live in the rural areas? Because to be quite honest I've never seen such features like that on North Africans. I know North Africans are very diverse. But the girl in the first picture on the right looks Southeast Asia like Cambodia.
I take it you haven't seen many aboriginals of southern Africa such as the San bushmen or the Khoi-Khoin pastoralists. Some Westerners in the past have classified the Khoisan peoples as a different racial stock from other Sub-Saharan 'Negroes' due to their features and some have even postulated a common origin with 'Mongoloid' peoples of eastern Asia. The point is the Khoisan are Africans closely related to other Sub-Saharan groups sharing the oldest lineages in the world. As for the northern Africans I posted, the first two are Tuareg Saharan nomads and the last are a Haratin family in Morocco. These are North Africans closely related to other indigenous North Africans even if their features differ.
Posts: 26236 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
^^^I know about westerners trying to separate Khoisans. I was just asking do they live in an isolated area, because some people *cough* Eurocentrics *cough* *cough* will claim that they are 'mixed'. I am soon going to make a thread similar to this topic.
Posts: 1135 | From: Top secret | Registered: Jun 2012
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quote:Originally posted by Faheemdunkers: They appear in the book. I'm pointing out if you then go to the specific pages where he describes them, he notes they are part Negroid.
- As I already explained to Swenet and the others (who are too dumb to get it), Coon didn't have the time to establish countless hybrid types, so many times he just lumped individuals who show admixture under a "pure" racial type, much like John Baker (also since both weren't strict typologists, you can find lumping throughout their works).
In many cases it's subjective to indicate a type is 'hybrid' on a biological level a mixture of 'pure' things. That can't always be done by looking it has to be done genetically. If you look at point B you can't always assume it's a hybrid of A and C because evolutionarily speaking there could have been a point where C didn't even exist yet. Therefore B was not a product of a mixture between A and C. B was an outgrowth of A and C was an outgrowth of B. The fact that B might look like a hybrid doesn't mean it is a hybrid and is less 'pure' than C
Genetics are a deeper more intenal way of looking at things yet your prefer the external more superfical way of looking at things. You often talk about what's ugly and what's pretty. But like looking at things genetically, character, intelligence and talent are internal things and trump superficial things like prettiness and external 'beauty'. . Carlton Coon on the existence of Bigfoot
Bigfoot probably exists; one theory interprets it as a Gigantopithecus.
Google International Committee for the Study of Hairy Humanoids and you get my page at Metapedia.
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posted
^ Interesting comparison. What site is the skull from and from what time period?
quote:Originally posted by Son of Ra: ^^^I know about westerners trying to separate Khoisans. I was just asking do they live in an isolated area, because some people *cough* Eurocentrics *cough* *cough* will claim that they are 'mixed'. I am soon going to make a thread similar to this topic.
Well the Haratin of Morocco tend to be relatively isolated, but the other pictures as I said are Tuareg who are nomads who have wide ranges and have mixed with various people depending on the tribe.
Posts: 26236 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
^A site in Northern Negev, called Shiqmim. I don't know what time period, but its prehistoric. It appears in Smith 2002.
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posted
^ LOL @ lyinass and her photoshop art. So we have an idea of the structure of the face but what about other features like skin color? You don't expect the ancient Maghrebis or the prehistoric Levantine folks to be fair-skinned like the modern Berber woman do you?
quote:Originally posted by Swenet: A site in Northern Negev, called Shiqmim. I don't know what time period, but its prehistoric. It appears in Smith 2002.
I'll look it up myself.
Posts: 26236 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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"These two individuals may be considered representatives of the Mediterranean invaders who entered western Europe over Gibraltar in the Neolithic"
LYIN' _SS are you crazy are just dumb. Oh that's right - both I guess! Since I have this book of Coon's at home I am just wondering why you are putting photographs from Coon's book of these three 20th century Arabians from diverse tribes in this post and calling them Berbers.
If you are going to picture spam at least find out if the internet sources you are copying from are right.
You probably don't even care your getting caught in your outright lies and involuntary mistakes. nothing you post can be trusted. (As if I am just finding that out. Truly sickening.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
Haratin are very likely related to the early smaller gracile San- looking populations of neolithic Europe and Sahara. Even in Europe, Diop noted there were populations with bushmen or San-like pottery and other cultural features.
You can see these same facial features among some of the Beja, ancient Egyptians, Amhara and Somali. Ehret didn't call the early Afro-Asiatics Afrosan for nothing. They were likely once spread to the Horn and admixed with the much taller people there.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Faheemdunkers: They appear in the book. I'm pointing out if you then go to the specific pages where he describes them, he notes they are part Negroid.
- As I already explained to Swenet and the others (who are too dumb to get it), Coon didn't have the time to establish countless hybrid types, so many times he just lumped individuals who show admixture under a "pure" racial type, much like John Baker (also since both weren't strict typologists, you can find lumping throughout their works).
In many cases it's subjective to indicate a type is 'hybrid' on a biological level a mixture of 'pure' things. That can't always be done by looking it has to be done genetically. If you look at point B you can't always assume it's a hybrid of A and C because evolutionarily speaking there could have been a point where C didn't even exist yet. Therefore B was not a product of a mixture between A and C. B was an outgrowth of A and C was an outgrowth of B. The fact that B might look like a hybrid doesn't mean it is a hybrid and is less 'pure' than C
Genetics are a deeper more intenal way of looking at things yet your prefer the external more superfical way of looking at things. You often talk about what's ugly and what's pretty. But like looking at things genetically, character, intelligence and talent are internal things and trump superficial things like prettiness and external 'beauty'. . Carlton Coon on the existence of Bigfoot
Trolling to be a comdien like I said may have been funny a few years ago but aren't cute anymore. Go away. Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by dana marniche: LYIN' _SS are you crazy are just dumb. Oh that's right - both I guess! Since I have this book of Coon's at home I am just wondering why you are putting photographs from Coon's book of these three 20th century Arabians from diverse tribes in this post and calling them Berbers.
If you are going to picture spam at least find out if the internet sources you are copying from are right.
You probably don't even care your getting caught in your outright lies and involuntary mistakes. nothing you post can be trusted. (As if I am just finding that out. Truly sickening. [/QB]
You are too late fool I already put up the correction
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche: Trolling to be a comdien like I said may have been funny a few years ago but aren't cute anymore. Go away. [/QB]
quote:Originally posted by anguishofbeing:
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche: The Old Testament Israel was in Arabia
In your alternative interpretation.
dana your alternative Arabist theories aren't cute anymore go away
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posted
^ Neither are your alternative white-wash North African theories. Posts: 26236 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ Neither are your alternative white-wash North African theories.
I have no allternative NA theory. I put up the DNATribes analysis and dana agreed with it, then came in with True Black theory
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ I don't know why you're citing studies on Central African speakers when the topic is on North Africans. As for the old Coon stuff, you're beginning to sound like Anglo-idiot. We know the phenotype of North Africans is diverse and one can easily point out Khoisan-like features among certain groups. And we know that what you and others call 'Australoid' features are merely archaic features which are preserved in a number of populations including groups in North Africa.
More recent photos of North Africans who look San.
Are the people in the pictures an isolated group? Like they live in the rural areas? Because to be quite honest I've never seen such features like that on North Africans. I know North Africans are very diverse. But the girl in the first picture on the right looks Southeast Asia like Cambodia.
I take it you haven't seen many aboriginals of southern Africa such as the San bushmen or the Khoi-Khoin pastoralists. Some Westerners in the past have classified the Khoisan peoples as a different racial stock from other Sub-Saharan 'Negroes' due to their features and some have even postulated a common origin with 'Mongoloid' peoples of eastern Asia. The point is the Khoisan are Africans closely related to other Sub-Saharan groups sharing the oldest lineages in the world. As for the northern Africans I posted, the first two are Tuareg Saharan nomads and the last are a Haratin family in Morocco. These are North Africans closely related to other indigenous North Africans even if their features differ.
^Some have argued that the Natufians were of "Bushmanoid" stock.. whatever that means.. lol
Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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posted
^ Yes, there were some anthropologists from back in the day who attempted to classify Natufians as 'bushmanoid' based on features like wide nasal index, large cranial index, and gracile limbs. This is what Dana meant by gracile proto-Mediterraneans with Bushman-like features. Of course we know these people have nothing to do with Bushmen of southern Africa but instead represent aboriginal peoples of coastal northeast Africa and parts of the Mediterranean.
Posts: 26236 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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^^^ she looks Khoisan, no one really knows where her roots are or exactly what Africa looked like before the bantu expansion. It seems strange that she would look so similar to a Khosian and not be Khosian
^^^^ here desribed as "bushman like features" compared to a Khosian below they have a similar wide face and wide set eyes with similar eye shape. There is a resmblance yet at the same time differnces the 'bushman-like' berber has a more squarish chin and his straight hair are unlike the Khosian below.
.
^^^^ yet the boy with the caption that says "bushman-like features" has hair like she has:
Perhaps there were once Khosians in North Africa (incl steatopygous rock art) and also these 'archaic' types with straight hair (unless it's European/Near eatern or Indian hair - there are a lot of possibilities)
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
^ Yeah there are a lot of possibilities-- in your mind! LOL
The archaeological and genetic records are quite clear. 'Khoisan' is a cultural group NOT a phenotype nor even an ethnic group since Khoisan include several peoples, mainly Khoi-Khoin and San. There is no evidence whatsoever that any of these peoples of southern Africa lived in northern Africa. Neither is there any evidence of Bantus in North Africa as well. Were there aboriginal populations in North Africa who may have shared similar features? Very likely but that doesn't mean they share direct ancestry with Khoisan peoples proper.
As for straight hair, how many times and in how many threads must we tell your lyinass that wavy hair form is native to Africa and has NOTHING to do with Near-Easterners or Indians? Are you aware that even many Berbers of the coasts have very curly hair and even many 'Arab' Egyptians have kinky hair, whereas there are isolate communities of blacks in and south of the Sahara who have lose or wavy hair??
Posts: 26236 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: wavy hair form is native to Africa
do you have a peer reviewed article stating that? that means text not picture spam -and keep in mind I used the term "straight" not "wavy" (I warned you about games)
^^^ Here is the person I was talking about. You are suggesting he is pure deep rooted African? maybe yes maybe no
Below Swenet had proposed a comparison of the below berber woman to a non-African Your remark : "interesting comparison". Tukeuler had also proposed she was admixed But now we have this kid example and you cry
quote:Originally posted by Swenet:
Prehistoric Levantine skull. Compare the tall maxilla and somewhat flaring zygomatic arches they have in common.
Chemical and Physical Behavior of Human Hair By Clarence R. Robbins 2012, pub: Springer Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
^ LOL Apparently you are as blind as you are stupid if you think there is a strong resemblance between Otzi and Maghrebi woman and Levantine skulls. The latter two display archaic features such as prominent zygomatic (cheek) bones and not just 'high' cheek bones, as well as heavy brows and maxillary prognathism-- all of which Otzi is missing.
Your attempt to suggest Otzi possessed such traits let alone was somehow of the same 'type' is as pathetic as your comparison of Tut's bust to an Indian! LOL
quote:Originally posted by the lyinass,:
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: wavy hair form is native to Africa
do you have a peer reviewed article stating that? that means text not picture spam -and keep in mind I used the term "straight" not "wavy" (I warned you about games)
B|tch, the only one playing games is YOU. The reason why I say "wavy" as opposed to "straight" is because Euronuts like you would then move the goal post to include bone-straight forms like among Asians. As for peer-reviewed texts, no I don't have any but my proof comes from the mouths of actual Africans as well as pictures of Africans from rural isolated communities who are very black or even 'negroid' in appearance but still have loose hair texture anyway. Your premise that loose hair texture among Africans is due to Eurasian admixture yet you offer no explanation as to how Eurasians affected hair form only but not other phenotypical traits. In fact the burden of proof is on YOU to provide peer-reviewed evidence that loose hair form is not indigenous to Africa and is the result of Eurasian genetic influence.
quote:
^^^ Here is the person I was talking about. You are suggesting he is pure deep rooted African? maybe yes maybe no
I didn't suggest anything about the individual above, trick! LOL That he is a Berber of North African and judging by his features, yes he does have indigenous African ancestry. Is he 'pure' probably not due to his very light skin.
quote:Below Swenet had proposed a comparison of the below berber woman to a non-African Your remark : "interesting comparison". Tukeuler had also proposed she was admixed But now we have this kid example and you cry
LOL Typical Lyinass distortions of others words. Yes, Tukuler claimed she was archaic-admixed. Why she is 'admixed' is obvious from her very fair skin and blue eyes which us knowledgeable folks know are infrequent features to the Maghreb and are associated with those of European descent. As for the so-called 'non-African' skull from the Levant. The skull belongs to the Pre-Pottery Neolithic B culture which is derived from the African Harifian culture of Egypt. So obviously it's not as 'non-African' as you think or wish it to be! LOL
quote:Chemical and Physical Behavior of Human Hair By Clarence R. Robbins 2012, pub: Springer
Okay. But what does the above source have to say about the wavy hair found in Africans which is different from European hair because it is more eliptical and stronger?? Posts: 26236 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Swenet: A site in Northern Negev, called Shiqmim. I don't know what time period, but its prehistoric. It appears in Smith 2002.
I'll look it up myself.
I found it. The Shiqmim site dates to the Chalcolithic i.e. PPNB Culture which we know is derived from both Natufian and incoming Harifians from Africa.
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ LOL Apparently you are as blind as you are stupid if you think there is a strong resemblance between Otzi and Maghrebi woman and Levantine skulls. The latter two display archaic features such as prominent zygomatic (cheek) bones and not just 'high' cheek bones, as well as heavy brows and maxillary prognathism-- all of which Otzi is missing.
^^^ pretending to be a forensic expert. There is a notable resemblance in skull shape also xyyman says Otzi man is African see other thread
Chemical and Physical Behavior of Human Hair By Clarence R. Robbins 2012, pub: Springer
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti:Okay. But what does the above source have to say about the wavy hair found in Africans which is different from European hair because it is more eliptical and stronger??
read the first sentence of the page above again
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti:
Tukuler claimed she was archaic-admixed. Why she is 'admixed' is obvious from her very fair skin and blue eyes which us knowledgeable folks know are infrequent features to the Maghreb and are associated with those of European descent.
I shouldn't've used admixed because here on ES it means Eurasian admixed. My precise wording should have been atavistic; i.e., "generational throwback."
Ms Lo isn't very fair. Nicole Kidman is very fair.
Not sure her eyes are blue. They look grey with some little brown. Maybe they're light hazel.
Lo is a cave dweller in a remote valley of Maroc's Atlas. Considering that and her atavism I don't quite see where she's Eurasian admixed. Even medium tone African complexions can show ruddiness in the face particularly in the ears, cheeks, nose, and forehead.
This would be especially so for a born and bred cave dweller.
Note Lo's complexion between her bracelet and sleeve. Still somewhat dark for someone spending her life shielded from the sun in a cave.
I doubt economically disadvantaged troglodytes purchased Euro slaves. You know they're miserably paid for those magnificent Berber rugs they make.
Posts: 8179 | From: the Tekrur straddling Senegal & Mauritania | Registered: Dec 2011
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posted
^ My theory is based on the complexions of Berbers whom Euros described from Medieval to Modern times just a few centuries ago. The indigenous people of the Canary Islands were also described as black with exception of Tenerife Island who share the same complexion as Ms. Lo whom Euronuts often fixate on as proof that Berbers were originally white. Also, such European admixture need not be due to purchase of slaves as you cited Roman sources of obscure white tribes in the Maghreb though they be a minority.
quote:Originally posted by the lyinass,: pretending to be a forensic expert. There is a notable resemblance in skull shape also xyyman says Otzi man is African see other thread.
LOL I'm not pretending to be anything! I have EYES that can discern the difference! Now you are hiding behind Xyzman, even though he not only is he NOT an expert either but he obviously doesn't know what he's talking about! LMAO
I suggest you go on pretending to be a black girl.
quote:Chemical and Physical Behavior of Human Hair By Clarence R. Robbins 2012, pub: Springer read the first sentence of the page above again
I did, trick. It talks about stereotypical hair types of Europeans and then the stereotypical hair of Africans. It does NOT address non-stereotypical the loose hair of Africans which again is different from that of European counterparts.
Go back to Mathilda's brothel. Posts: 26236 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ My theory is based on the complexions of Berbers whom Euros described from Medieval to Modern times just a few centuries ago. The indigenous people of the Canary Islands were also described as black with exception of Tenerife Island who share the same complexion as Ms. Lo whom Euronuts often fixate on as proof that Berbers were originally white. Also, such European admixture need not be due to purchase of slaves as you cited Roman sources of obscure white tribes in the Maghreb though they be a minority.
Libyan and Maghrebi peoples were in general darker than South Europeans. Nonetheless, and as you know, Egyptian art and Greco-Latin literature prove some were nally yally and even white.
Trade items and archaeology prove contact between North Africa and South Europe pre-dates those historic notices. So yes at least Iberian women were early presumed lighteners of select ancient and even early Holocene Maghrebis.
But were not some very light complexions produced naturally in a Maghreb whose temperatures and climate is more like Greece than other places in Africa?
I doubted so until Keita proposed the lightest North Africans besides trans-Mediterranean gene flow may result from intentional endogamy of
I just don't see why some people in high elevations with serious snow in country with climate akin to South Europe and the same approximate latitude could not have lost some pigmentation of no environmental strategic value.
Posts: 8179 | From: the Tekrur straddling Senegal & Mauritania | Registered: Dec 2011
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: [QB] ^ My theory is based on
is based on True Blacksim
ignoring both Manilius who described Mauri as lighter than medium tone as well as Ptolemy and Pliny on Leucæthiopians
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Swenet: A site in Northern Negev, called Shiqmim. I don't know what time period, but its prehistoric. It appears in Smith 2002.
I'll look it up myself.
I found it. The Shiqmim site dates to the Chalcolithic i.e. PPNB Culture which we know is derived from both Natufian and incoming Harifians from Africa.
Viewed from above the skull was narrow with a post-occipital bulge,...
But Shiqmim is a site, not a culture or phase. How do you know that cranium I posted earlier is associated with this complex (PPN)? Or was it only inhabited during this period? Thanks for that paper BTW.
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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