quote:Nubia has been a corridor for the movement of goods, culture, and people between sub-Saharan Africa, Egypt, and West Eurasia since prehistory, but little is known about the genetic landscape of the region prior to the influence of the Islamic migrations that began in the late 1st millennium CE. We report genome-wide data for 66 individuals from the site of Kulubnarti (~650-1000 CE), increasing the number of ancient individuals with genome-level data from the Nile Valley from three to 69. Our results shed light on the genetic ancestry of a Christian Period group and help to address a long-standing question about the relationships among people buried in two neighboring cemeteries who show skeletal evidence of differences in morbidity and mortality that are broadly suggestive of differences in social status. We find that the Kulubnarti Nubians were admixed with ~43% Nilotic-related ancestry on average (individual proportions varied between ~36-54%) and the remaining ancestry reflecting a West Eurasian-related gene pool likely introduced into Nubia through Egypt, but ultimately deriving from an ancestry pool like that found in the Bronze and Iron Age Levant. The admixed ancestry at Kulubnarti reflects interactions between genetically-distinct people in northeast Africa spanning almost a millennium, with West Eurasian ancestry disproportionately associated with females, highlighting the impact of female mobility in this region. We find no significant differences in ancestry among individuals from the two plausibly socially-stratified cemeteries at Kulubnarti, supporting hypotheses that the groups may have been socially divided but were not genetically distinct. We identify seven pairs of inter-cemetery relatives as close as second-degree, suggesting that any social divisions at Kulubnarti did not prevent mixing between groups. Present-day Nubians are not directly descended from the Christian Period people from Kulubnarti without additional admixture, attesting to the dynamic history of interaction that continues to shape the cultural and genetic landscape of Nubia.
posted
So are we to assume that Kulubnarti Nubians were a Nilotic population prior to 650 CE?
Posts: 1568 | From: Pluto | Registered: Sep 2008
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quote:Originally posted by sudaniya: So are we to assume that Kulubnarti Nubians were a Nilotic population prior to 650 CE?
how did you come to this conclusion?
I'm asking a question. The paper says that:
quote:The admixed ancestry at Kulubnarti reflects interactions between genetically-distinct people in northeast Africa spanning almost a millennium
What population do you suppose lived there prior to the mixing event that spanned almost a millennium? The West Eurasian component obviously came from outside, so the Nilotic component must have been indigenous.
The fact that the Eurasian component was "disproportionately associated with females" tells me that the land belonged to Nilotic men and that they took Eurasian women as wives and created an admixed population in Kulubnarti.
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It's interesting that this flips the older data on Nubians and Sudanese Arabs. I read somewhere that 70% of the Y-DNA profile of the Nubians is Arab and that this stands at 90% for the Arab-Sudanese.
quote:"Genetic evidence points to an early admixture event in the Nubians, concurrent with historical contact between North Sudanese and Arab groups. We estimate the admixture in current-day Sudanese Arab populations to about 700 years ago, coinciding with the fall of Dongola in 1315/1316 AD, a wave of admixture that reached the Darfurian/Kordofanian populations some 400–200 years ago."
quote: .."an ‘unadmixed’ Nubian gene-pool is genetically similar to Nilotes (S7B Fig)
What I want to see is genetic data on ancient Kush and Kerma and Ta-Seti if at all possible.
Posts: 1568 | From: Pluto | Registered: Sep 2008
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Any chance that pre-OOA Northeast African ancestry is in there as well? I doubt all indigenous African ancestry in this northern Sudanese population is going to look "Nilotic" (IIRC, at least some Nilotic ancestry is related to that of West Africans). Surely pre-OOA ancestry accounts for some of the "West Eurasian-related" component as well?
Social stratification without genetic differentiation at the site of Kulubnarti in Christian Period Nubia Kendra A. Sirak 2021
Thirteen individuals from both cemeteries belong to H2a, a European-centered mtDNA haplogroup not previously found in ancient contexts in Africa to our knowledge. Upon closer examination, the presence of three additional mutations not typically found in members of this haplogroup suggests that they are likely part of a previously undocumented branch of H2a.Ten individuals from both cemeteries belong to mtDNA haplogroup U5b2b5, though they also exhibit three additional mutations not typically found in members of this haplogroup. One of these mutations was detected in a 4,000-year-old mummy from Deir el-Bersha, Egypt also assigned to this haplogroup65, raising the possibility that the presence of U5b2b5 at Kulubnarti reflects deep connections with Egypt; other mtDNA haplogroups, including J2a2e, R0a1, T1a7, U1a1, and U3b are also found both at Kulubnarti and in ancient Egyptians31. U1a1, U3b, and N1b1a2 have also been identified in Bronze Age individuals from Israel and Jordan42, so the presence of these lineages also at Kulubnarti is consistent with the genome-wide data. Previously-published ancient Egyptian data in ref.31includes only one individual belonging to an African-originating L mtDNA haplogroup, suggesting that female-specific African ancestry may have had a limited impact as far north as Egypt as late as the Roman Period31. In contrast, 28 individuals from Kulubnarti belong to seven different L lineages, the most common .CC-BY-NC-ND 4.0 International licenseavailable under a(which was not certified by peer review) is the author/funder, who has granted bioRxiv a license to display the preprint in perpetuity. It is made The copyright holder for this preprintthis version posted February 17, 2021. ; https://doi.org/10.1101/2021.02.17.431423doi: bioRxiv preprint
14being the eastern African sub-clade L2a1d1, supporting a deep matrilineal connection to this region66. Four individuals from Kulubnarti belong to L5a1b, a lineage of the rare L5a haplogroup centered in East Africa. mtDNA haplogroup L5 has been observed only at low frequency in East and Central Africa and also in Egypt67-69; the L5a1b lineage has previously been identified in a Pastoral Neolithic individual from Hyrax Hill in Kenya dating to ~2,300 years BP58.We called Y chromosome haplogroups for 30 males from Kulubnarti, 28 of whom are not first-degree relatives that share a patriline (Methods; Supplementary Fig. 6; Supplementary Data 13). Seventeen males (including two pairs of relatives with a shared patriline) belong to haplogroups on the E1b1b1 (E-M215) branch that originated in northeast Africa ~25 kya70and is commonly found in present-day Afro-Asiatic speaking groups71. In this subset of males, E1b1b1a1a1c (E-Y125054) was the most common haplogroup, called for a father-son pair from the S cemetery as well as two unrelated individuals from the R cemetery. Of the 15 unrelated males assigned to branches of E1b1b1, 10 were buried in the R cemetery. While 5males from the S cemetery belonged to haplogroups on the E1b1b1 branch and another belonged to E2a (E-M41), nine belonged to Y haplogroups with likely West Eurasian origins –albeit also with distributions that include northeastern Africa –compared to only three from the R cemetery. While males from the R cemetery are more likely to belong to haplogroups on the Y chromosome E branch, the most represented Y lineage in Africa72, the difference is not significant (P=0.11, Methods),and so we view this as likely to be a statistical fluctuation and do not take this as evidence of heterogeneity among males from each cemetery.Insight into modern Nubian people.We were interested if ancient DNA data from Nubia could provide new insights into the processes that shaped the genomes of present-day Mahas, Halfawieen, and Danagla Nubian populations (reported in ref.20).
First, we show using qpWave that modern Nubian populations do not form a clade with the Kulubnarti Nubians and are therefore not their direct descendants without additional admixture
Using DATESand the same reference pairs as previously mentioned, we re-estimate that admixture occurred on average 33.9±2.5 generations ago for the Mahas (95% CI,889–1210 CE), 36.6±2.2 generations for the Danagla (95% CI, 855–1095 CE)
and 24.2±3.2 generations for the Halfawieen (95% CI, 1148–1498 CE) (Methods; Supplementary Data 14). These dates are consistent with those estimated in Hollfelder et al. (2017), supporting their conclusion that migrations that occurred with the Arab conquest beginning in the 7th century1left a detectable signature on the genomes of modern Nubian peoples. We tested if the same qpAdm model that explained ancestry in the Kulubnarti Nubians could also be applied to present-day Nubian people, but we found that the model did not fit any modern Nubian group
(Methods; Supplementary Data 7). We can therefore assume that the admixture events that shaped the genomes of modern Nubians also introduced different types of ancestry into the gene pool of these people. Thus, despite a superficial resemblance on our PCA, present-day Nubian populations are not descended directly from a population related to the earlier Kulubnarti Nubians without additional admixture following the Christian Period.
_________________________
Fourth, we find that our data are consistent with a greater amount of female mobility (and possibly exogamy). We show that West Eurasian-related ancestry at Kulubnarti was disproportionately associated with female ancestors, highlighting the importance of female mobility in this region. In line with this, although the population size at Kulubnarti is assumed to be small based on the site’s location in the Batn el Hajar, analysis of ROH points to limited population-level relatedness and a relatively large mating pool at Kulubnarti, implying connections with a broader population. It is possible that these connections are primarily female-mediated, and that Kulubnarti was a patrilineal and patrilocal society that followed a system of patrilineal primogeniture. While this is speculative, additional ancient DNA data interpreted within an archeological framework from other parts of Nubia will benefit this discussion in the future. Finally, in support of previous findings that present-day Nubians were influenced genetically by additional waves of admixture that post-date the Christian Period, we find no evidence that they descended directly from the Kulubnarti Nubians. Instead, interactions involving gene flow between genetically-distinct peoples continued following the Christian Period, with estimated dates of admixture suggesting that the Arab conquest of Egypt and Sudan influenced not only the cultural landscape, but also the genetic landscape of this region. Taken together, our results reveal a dynamic population history in Nubia that began thousands of years ago and has continued into the present day.
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When did Nilotics mix with West Africans? The Dinka-Nuer and the Sudanese Luo groups [Jur-Chol, Shilluk] have been pretty isolated from other Africans.
Also, the authors of this study may be using "Nilotic" in an altogether different reference.
I don't think they're referring to groups like the Dinka; the fact that the Y-DNA of this Nubian group is E1b1b [instead of Haplogroup A and Haplogroup B] gives credence to this. The only Nilo-Saharan populations with high levels of E1b1b are the Darfurians and the Toubou.
The Maasai-Samburu have high frequencies of E1b1b but they're only 50% Nilotic, so they don't really count.
Posts: 1568 | From: Pluto | Registered: Sep 2008
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quote:Originally posted by sudaniya: When did Nilotics mix with West Africans? The Dinka-Nuer and the Sudanese Luo groups [Jur-Chol, Shilluk] have been pretty isolated from other Africans.
quote:Originally posted by sudaniya: When did Nilotics mix with West Africans? The Dinka-Nuer and the Sudanese Luo groups [Jur-Chol, Shilluk] have been pretty isolated from other Africans.
quote:Originally posted by sudaniya: When did Nilotics mix with West Africans? The Dinka-Nuer and the Sudanese Luo groups [Jur-Chol, Shilluk] have been pretty isolated from other Africans.
Perhaps there is a connection between Nilo-Saharans and Niger-Congo people but it would be more than a few thousands years in the past -- in the Green Sahara period.
Nilotics and other Nilo-Saharans [like Darfurians] don't even seem closely related to each other in genetic or cultural terms, so how close could Nilotics be with West Africans?
Posts: 1568 | From: Pluto | Registered: Sep 2008
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Is the study saying that the admixture spans almost a millennia or that the samples only cover 650 CE to 1000 CE?
quote:The admixed ancestry at Kulubnarti reflects interactions between genetically-distinct people in northeast Africa spanning almost a millennia
Why is there no data on the genetically-distinct population that lived in Kulubnarti prior to this admixture event?
Posts: 1568 | From: Pluto | Registered: Sep 2008
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...The most important thing to take away is this
quote:We can therefore assume that the admixture events that shaped the genomes of modern Nubians also introduced different types of ancestry into the gene pool of these people. Thus, despite a superficial resemblance on our PCA, presentday Nubian populations are not descended directly from a population related to the earlier Kulubnarti Nubians without additional admixture following the Christian Period.
We've seen this happen before elsewhere in Africa.
The Eurasian Admixture will keep getting pushed back as these populations continue to resemble their successors.
This doesn't speak well for the oversimplification of equating a population to being West Eurasian + "putative" SSA. With actual aDNA such models haven't been vindicated.
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
So in this PCA case, PCA tool/method is overturning what other data processing exactly?
Assuming PCA supports continuity what if anything are the authors saying disconfirms it?
I mean, which sets/methods of raw data presentation for interpretation are pro, which con?
quote:Elmaestro sees:
...The most important thing to take away is this
quote:We can therefore assume that the admixture events that shaped the genomes of modern Nubians also introduced different types of ancestry into the gene pool of these people. Thus, despite a superficial resemblance on our PCA, present day Nubian populations are not descended directly from a population related to the earlier Kulubnarti Nubians without additional admixture following the Christian Period.
We've seen this happen before elsewhere in Africa.
The Eurasian Admixture will keep getting pushed back as these populations continue to resemble their successors.
Anyone see anything connecting biased female selection by local males suggested here with the overlooked yet similar Bab el Mendeb Semitic into Ethiopia example?
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: [QUOTE]Originally posted by One Third African: [QB] [URL=https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.02.17.431423v1]S.. Halfawieen (95% CI, 1148–1498 CE) (Methods; Supplementary Data 14). These dates are consistent with those estimated in Hollfelder et al. (2017), supporting their conclusion that migrations that occurred with the Arab conquest beginning in the 7th century1left a detectable signature on the genomes of modern Nubian peoples. We tested if the same qpAdm model that explained ancestry in the Kulubnarti Nubians could also be applied to present-day Nubian people, but we found that the model did not fit any modern Nubian group
(Methods; Supplementary Data 7). We can therefore assume that the admixture events that shaped the genomes of modern Nubians also introduced different types of ancestry into the gene pool of these people. Thus, despite a superficial resemblance on our PCA, present-day Nubian populations are not descended directly from a population related to the earlier Kulubnarti Nubians without additional admixture following the Christian Period.
_________________________
Fourth, we find that our data are consistent with a greater amount of female mobility (and possibly exogamy). We show that West Eurasian-related ancestry at Kulubnarti was disproportionately associated with female ancestors, highlighting the importance of female mobility in this region. In line with this, although the population size at Kulubnarti is assumed to be small based on the site’s location in the Batn el Hajar, analysis of ROH points to limited population-level relatedness and a relatively large mating pool at Kulubnarti, implying connections with a broader population. It is possible that these connections are primarily female-mediated, and that Kulubnarti was a patrilineal and patrilocal society that followed a system of patrilineal primogeniture. While this is speculative, additional ancient DNA data interpreted within an archeological framework from other parts of Nubia will benefit this discussion in the future. Finally, in support of previous findings that present-day Nubians were influenced genetically by additional waves of admixture that post-date the Christian Period, we find no evidence that they descended directly from the Kulubnarti Nubians. Instead, interactions involving gene flow between genetically-distinct peoples continued following the Christian Period, with estimated dates of admixture suggesting that the Arab conquest of Egypt and Sudan influenced not only the cultural landscape, but also the genetic landscape of this region. Taken together, our results reveal a dynamic population history in Nubia that began thousands of years ago and has continued into the present day.
Results are not surprising. The 600s were a pretty busy time for Christian Nubia, in particular fending off the Arab threat. As late as 646 they were fighting off an Arab invasion from Egypt, and they stymied the Arab Muslim advance. Not surprising there would be some admixture in the region. In addition to the Arabs were various nomadic incursions they had to fight off. And other rising regional contendas like Nobatia or Makuria were waiting in the wings.
An interesting thing is the Eurasian female tracings. They took these women either as wives, or there is the possibility of war captives or slaves. Treaties and truces signed with the Arabs in the 640s and 650s stipulated that the Nubians were to refrain from attacking Egypt, so probably they were not standing still waiting for Arab attacks but were hammering back into Egypt with raids and incursions- plenty of opportunity to pick up some Eurasian females. ANother possibility is Nubian mercenaries back and forth with Eurasian wives. The Arabs recruited Nubian fighting men heavily. One source in 1050 reports at least 50,000 Nubian troops in Fatimid service. Just as in Egyptians times, these men may have taken wives in the locations where they served and some may have returned later to the region.
The site was seen in some earlier scholarship as an ideal place to study the transition to Islam in the region, which would mean additional scope for "Eurasian" mixes into the indigenous population.
Lobban's Dictionary of Medieval Nubia says the following about the site:
KULB, KULUBNARTI. This lightly fortified Christian town is located in the Batn al-Hajr (q.v.) region approximately sixty-five kilometers south of Semna (q.v.) at the head of Lake Nasser. About two kilometers long and one kilometer wide, it features two churches, two cemeteries, and ten island hamlets. The island is eight kilometers downstream from Akasha (q.v.) and near the Dal Cataract (q.v.). Excavation done by William and Nettie Adams, from 1969 to 1979, revealed that the site was occupied at least from the eleventh to the nineteenth century. Meroitic and X-Group (qq.v.) pottery was found there, but as no settlement sites or grave sites have been identified, it must be assumed that Kulubnarti was active mainly in the late Christian period but lasted long into Islamic times.
The community had no uniform architecture. For example, many houses were built of brick and some of stone, and some featured a combination of both. Rectangular and round rooms were intermixed. However, most of the houses were two level, a typical feature among Christian architecture. Kulubnarti was thought to be an ideal site for studying the transition from Christianity to Islam, but the relative poverty of the community did not allow strong judgments to be made. Objects recovered, mostly from refuse heaps, included rope, leather, wood, baskets, sandals, mats, diverse pottery, textiles, wool, bone, shell, a little glass and metal, and animal bones mainly of sheep, goats, fish, and pigs (through the end of the Christian period). Pottery remains were particularly numerous and included jars, bowls, kegs, sakia jars, amphorae, cups, vases, lamps, censers, and lids for purposes of eating, cooking, and storage. Kulubnarti was contemporary with other communities at Qasr Ibrim, Sai, Jebel Adda, Faras, Semna East, Meinarti, and Diffinarti (qq.v.). The largest amount of pottery could be regarded as utilitarian ware rather than anything of high quality. Some textual fragments were also found in Greek, Old Nubian, Arabic, and Turkish. The first two textual languages declined rapidly with the end of Christianity in Nubia (q.v.), while the last two increased with the arrival of Islam. [R. Lobban with P. Saucier] " p233
-------------------- Note: I am not an "Egyptologist" as claimed by some still bitter, defeated, trolls creating fake profiles and posts elsewhere. Hapless losers, you still fail. My output of hard data debunking racist nonsense has actually INCREASED since you began.. Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Elmaestro: ...The most important thing to take away is this
quote:We can therefore assume that the admixture events that shaped the genomes of modern Nubians also introduced different types of ancestry into the gene pool of these people. Thus, despite a superficial resemblance on our PCA, presentday Nubian populations are not descended directly from a population related to the earlier Kulubnarti Nubians without additional admixture following the Christian Period.
We've seen this happen before elsewhere in Africa.
The Eurasian Admixture will keep getting pushed back as these populations continue to resemble their successors.
This doesn't speak well for the oversimplification of equating a population to being West Eurasian + "putative" SSA. With actual aDNA such models haven't been vindicated.
Indeed. If the usual suspects are using this to gin up a propaganda picture of "Eurasian" conquerors sweeping all before them into Nubia they have already failed, for such sweeping conquests would likely have left a heavy streak of male Eurasian DNA. The preponderance of Eurasian females though suggests that is was the Nubians calling the tune, with indigenous mercenaries bringing Eurasian females back home as wives, or various wars and raids into Egypt that yielded female captives or slaves to be transferred to the indigenous homeland areas.
-------------------- Note: I am not an "Egyptologist" as claimed by some still bitter, defeated, trolls creating fake profiles and posts elsewhere. Hapless losers, you still fail. My output of hard data debunking racist nonsense has actually INCREASED since you began.. Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Elmaestro: ...The most important thing to take away is this
quote:We can therefore assume that the admixture events that shaped the genomes of modern Nubians also introduced different types of ancestry into the gene pool of these people. Thus, despite a superficial resemblance on our PCA, presentday Nubian populations are not descended directly from a population related to the earlier Kulubnarti Nubians without additional admixture following the Christian Period.
We've seen this happen before elsewhere in Africa.
The Eurasian Admixture will keep getting pushed back as these populations continue to resemble their successors.
This doesn't speak well for the oversimplification of equating a population to being West Eurasian + "putative" SSA. With actual aDNA such models haven't been vindicated.
I always felt modern Nubians weren't directly descendants of the ancients. I heard that the ancestors of modern Nubians come from the western desert after the fall of Kush. Correct me but does this basically confirm significant Nilotic influence in Lower Nubia back then? Not to ask such an elementary question.
Posts: 1891 | From: NY | Registered: Sep 2014
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Why is there a confusion between Nilotic and other Nilo-Saharans? These people were Nilo-Saharans but they weren't Dinka like Nilotic - as evinced by the genetic data.
Posts: 1568 | From: Pluto | Registered: Sep 2008
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
Nilo-Saharan itself is an unsure phylogeny that Greenburg school linguists have sought to justify ever since G comprised it of any language that didn't fit his 'Click', 'AfroAsian', or 'Niger-Congo-Kordofanian'.
How related various N-S branches are to each other is moot. Same can be said for the speakers of NS and nearly all phyla.
Peoples drop and pick up languages per social dynamics. Who can say current African languages and ethnicity was differentiated during the Epipaleolithic through end of Mid- Holocene when core developments are proposed to begin?
Linguistics and genomics often 'clash' in the Sudans because Arabic was adopted by many indigenous Sudani. Messiria show that phenomena below in this minimized Sudan and east neighbors redux of Hollfelder 2017 Figure S3 where Sudans' phyla are added in red, except for Zaghawa and Gemar. Ks chosen for CV and progressing number of non-Levantine ancestries in the two Sudans.
Non-NS Beja, Hadendowa and Beni Amer, also illustrate ancestry and language can be from previously unlinked sources. The former ethny has a plurality of SkyBlue ancestry predominant in Nubian speakers. The latter have a Pink plurality in line with 'Red Sea' Cushitic speakers as exemplified by the Afar.
DarkBlue ancestry South Sudanis are related to peoples like the Anuak and other non-Sudani N-S speakers where South Sudan borders Kenya, Uganda, and Ethiopia. I was introduced to Baria as non-Oromo indigenous Ethiopians but those in Hollfelder live in S Sudan.
Nilote, Kordofanian, and Beja physical types appear in AE art of TaNehesi peoples broad brush labeled 'Nubian' by mainstream academia. An AE noble recounting a military invasion by Kush places all non-Egyptian NE Afrs under Kush, perhaps a better misnomer conglomerate term for the peoples and region than Nubia.
Nobiin et al seem to enter history well after the last native Egyptian dynasty. Aren't they fingered in the conquest of Southern Nubia Meroe Kush? Or was it the invading Habesha alone? I forget.
quote:Originally posted by sudaniya: Why is there a confusion between Nilotic and other Nilo-Saharans? These people were Nilo-Saharans but they weren't Dinka like Nilotic - as evinced by the genetic data.
1. No one brought up "Dinka" but it should be noted that "Dinka-like" Nilotics originated in Central Sudan around the Kush area iirc. That's another story but no one brought up Dinkas. I was mostly referring to Saharo Nilotic.
2. The study literally states they were partially Nilotics here: " find that the Kulubnarti Nubians were admixed with ~43% Nilotic-related ancestry on average (individual proportions varied between ~36-54%) and the remaining ancestry reflecting a West Eurasian-related gene pool likely introduced into Nubia through Egypt, but ultimately deriving from an ancestry pool like that found in the Bronze and Iron Age Levant"
Posts: 1891 | From: NY | Registered: Sep 2014
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
That Dinka inhabited Southern Nubia at Gezira/Gezireh south of Khartoum between the Blue and White Niles been covered on ES since 2009 and was looked at two weeks ago by HeartOfAfrica
Do an edit find on gez in those threads to find Gezira/Gizireh in posts to catch either spelling.
=-=-=
How I read this PCA insert The interned at Kulubnarti overlay modern Cushitics, predominantly Ethiopian sprinkled with Beja. One of the buried is a direct 'Nilo-Saharan' Nubian hit while three are closest to near West Eurasian inclined Arabic speaking Sudanese. Are these associations rightor am I colorblind matching geometric shape to identifying text coded by same color?
Ethiopian Cushitics are Hollfelders' pink ancestry. Afar have a plurality of it while N&E Sudanese have significant amounts. It tailors off to drips and dabs in the Darfur-Kordofan corridor and essentially absent in South Sudan Nilotes.
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler needing help w/Stro's reference quote:
So in this PCA case, PCA tool/method is overturning what other data processing exactly?
Assuming PCA supports continuity what if anything are the authors saying disconfirms it?
I mean, which sets/methods of raw data presentation for interpretation are pro, which con?
quote:Elmaestro sees:
...The most important thing to take away is this
quote:We can therefore assume that the admixture events that shaped the genomes of modern Nubians also introduced different types of ancestry into the gene pool of these people. Thus, despite a superficial resemblance on our PCA, present day Nubian populations are not descended directly from a population related to the earlier Kulubnarti Nubians without additional admixture following the Christian Period.
We've seen this happen before elsewhere in Africa.
The Eurasian Admixture will keep getting pushed back as these populations continue to resemble their successors.
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: Nilo-Saharan itself is an unsure phylogeny that Greenburg school linguists have sought to justify ever since G comprised it of any language that didn't fit his 'Click', 'AfroAsian', or 'Niger-Congo-Kordofanian'.
How related various N-S branches are to each other is moot. Same can be said for the speakers of NS and nearly all phyla.
Peoples drop and pick up languages per social dynamics. Who can say current African languages and ethnicity was differentiated during the Epipaleolithic through end of Mid- Holocene when core developments are proposed to begin?
Linguistics and genomics often 'clash' in the Sudans because Arabic was adopted by many indigenous Sudani. Messiria show that phenomena below in this minimized Sudan and east neighbors redux of Hollfelder 2017 Figure S3 where Sudans' phyla are added in red, except for Zaghawa and Gemar. Ks chosen for CV and progressing number of non-Levantine ancestries in the two Sudans.
Non-NS Beja, Hadendowa and Beni Amer, also illustrate ancestry and language can be from previously unlinked sources. The former ethny has a plurality of SkyBlue ancestry predominant in Nubian speakers. The latter have a Pink plurality in line with 'Red Sea' Cushitic speakers as exemplified by the Afar.
DarkBlue ancestry South Sudanis are related to peoples like the Anuak and other non-Sudani N-S speakers where South Sudan borders Kenya, Uganda, and Ethiopia. I was introduced to Baria as non-Oromo indigenous Ethiopians but those in Hollfelder live in S Sudan.
Nilote, Kordofanian, and Beja physical types appear in AE art of TaNehesi peoples broad brush labeled 'Nubian' by mainstream academia. An AE noble recounting a military invasion by Kush places all non-Egyptian NE Afrs under Kush, perhaps a better misnomer conglomerate term for the peoples and region than Nubia.
Nobiin et al seem to enter history well after the last native Egyptian dynasty. Aren't they fingered in the conquest of Southern Nubia Meroe Kush? Or was it the invading Habesha alone? I forget.
SouthSudan DarfurKordofanCorridor N&ESudan
RED NiloSaharan BLUE AfroAsian ('Afrithean')
I truly appreciate the information you have provided to the forum generally and on this issue in particular.
Posts: 1568 | From: Pluto | Registered: Sep 2008
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quote:Originally posted by sudaniya: Why is there a confusion between Nilotic and other Nilo-Saharans? These people were Nilo-Saharans but they weren't Dinka like Nilotic - as evinced by the genetic data.
1. No one brought up "Dinka" but it should be noted that "Dinka-like" Nilotics originated in Central Sudan around the Kush area iirc. That's another story but no one brought up Dinkas. I was mostly referring to Saharo Nilotic.
2. The study literally states they were partially Nilotics here: " find that the Kulubnarti Nubians were admixed with ~43% Nilotic-related ancestry on average (individual proportions varied between ~36-54%) and the remaining ancestry reflecting a West Eurasian-related gene pool likely introduced into Nubia through Egypt, but ultimately deriving from an ancestry pool like that found in the Bronze and Iron Age Levant"
This all depends on how "Nilotic" is defined.
Nilo-Saharans like the Fur, Zaghawa, Masalit, Nubians and the Toubou are Saharans, whereas groups like the Dinka, Nuer and Shilluk are Nilotic. Calling them all "Nilotics" is problematic and imprecise.
The Saharans all have high levels of E1b1b [just like the "Nilotics" in this study] whereas the actual Nilotics have very little of this. The paternal genetic profile of the Nilotics is defined by Haplogroup A and Haplogroup B.
Put a Darfurian next to a Nilotic Junubin and tell them they're both Nilotic and they will laugh and dismiss it.
Posts: 1568 | From: Pluto | Registered: Sep 2008
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
And i am humbled.
How much if any Kerma Kush genome would you suspect in Hollfelder's Danagla, or TaZeti/Wawat in her Halfawieen?
Controversial question maybe?
I know, I know. Stabbing with no Imperial Kush aDNA to aim at. Are there even Kush remains to assay for DNA?
Iirc the Brown Levantine ancestry in other reports has it's highest frequencies in Qemant/Beta Israel and is at significant level in Dinka. Agaw speakers are only surpassed by Beduin and Natufians.
quote:Originally posted by sudaniya: Why is there a confusion between Nilotic and other Nilo-Saharans? These people were Nilo-Saharans but they weren't Dinka like Nilotic - as evinced by the genetic data.
Is this evidenced by genetic data?
The mainstream is pushing the idea that Nubians (for example) are merely Nilotics + West Eurasians.
They're not though...
If you have any study that clearly genetically distinguishes this, might you link it?
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quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: And i am humbled.
How much if any Kerma Kush genome would you suspect in Hollfelder's Danagla, or TaZeti/Wawat in her Halfawieen?
Controversial question maybe?
I know, I know. Stabbing with no Imperial Kush aDNA to aim at. Are there even Kush remains to assay for DNA?
I have absolutely no idea how much of that ancient Nubian ancestry these modern populations could have -- especially since the ancient Kushites were replaced by the Nobiin and the Nubae.
I suspect that the Aethiopians of Kush were closely related to the Nubae and the Nobiin, so we could probably glean their genetic profile by removing the more recent Eurasian introgression from modern Nubian groups.
Ta-Seti is a bit tricky because they were absorbed so early on [3100 BC] and I don't know how people came to the conclusion that they were actually Nilo-Saharans instead of Afro-Asiatics like the ancient Egyptians.
Posts: 1568 | From: Pluto | Registered: Sep 2008
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quote:Originally posted by sudaniya: Why is there a confusion between Nilotic and other Nilo-Saharans? These people were Nilo-Saharans but they weren't Dinka like Nilotic - as evinced by the genetic data.
Is this evidenced by genetic data?
The mainstream is pushing the idea that Nubians (for example) are merely Nilotics + West Eurasians.
They're not though...
If you have any study that clearly genetically distinguishes this, might you link it?
I think these particular Nubians are Saharans + West Eurasian and the study says that the admixture event that produced these admixed people "spanned almost a millennium"...
..And this must mean that the Kulubnarti Nubians were undoubtedly more Saharan prior to the admixture event.
What do you think the ancient Nubians were genetically?
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posted
I really should point out that the Anyuak are actually South Sudanese and are not merely related to them. The Anyuak live in Pochalla and Akoba, however, the Mor Lou Nuer are displacing them.
The Misseriya [like all Baggara tribes] are not indigenous Sudanese; the Misseriya, Rizeigat and the Salamat all have their origins in T'Chad and only arrived in Sudan in the 17th Century.
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
Hope this's of interest.
A modest(?) non-professional's run of 20 ancestries posted coupla yrs ago.
The Dinka and Levantine exemplified ancestries in some populations from northern and middle portions of the Syria to Moçambique Great Rift.
Ima hush and let yall make any comparison, contrasts, n hopefully some informed falsifiable speculations too.
posted
I was thinking about how this study's preprint models Kulubnarti Nubian ancestry as being more or less evenly split between "West Eurasian-related" on the one hand and Nilotic SSA on the other. We can probably assume that some indigenous NE African ancestry (as in something like BE or ANA) is being subsumed into the former component, but what about the latter? Could there have been substantial Upper Nilotic ancestry in Lower Nubians from the beginning, or would that have been brought in at later periods (perhaps with the arrival of Nubian-speaking groups like the Nobatians and Makurians from the west)?
Looking at these graphs from earlier studies (on skeletal and dental remains), younger Lower Nubian samples (e.g. Christian and X-Group) don't seem that much more SSA-shifted than earlier ones. Though I suppose West Eurasian ancestry from further north could be offsetting any additional SSA contributions.
UPDATE: Another possibility is that a large chunk of both the Eurasian- and Nilotic-related ancestry in these Nubians is actually something like ANA. That’s what seems to have happened to the supposed SSA in Iberomaurisians and their early Neolithic descendants.
quote:Originally posted by BrandonP: I was thinking about how this study's preprint models Kulubnarti Nubian ancestry as being more or less evenly split between "West Eurasian-related" on the one hand and Nilotic SSA on the other. We can probably assume that some indigenous NE African ancestry (as in something like BE or ANA) is being subsumed into the former component, but what about the latter? Could there have been substantial Upper Nilotic ancestry in Lower Nubians from the beginning, or would that have been brought in at later periods (perhaps with the arrival of Nubian-speaking groups like the Nobatians and Makurians from the west)?
Looking at these graphs from earlier studies (on skeletal and dental remains), younger Lower Nubian samples (e.g. Christian and X-Group) don't seem that much more SSA-shifted than earlier ones. Though I suppose West Eurasian ancestry from further north could be offsetting any additional SSA contributions.
UPDATE: Another possibility is that a large chunk of both the Eurasian- and Nilotic-related ancestry in these Nubians is actually something like ANA. That’s what seems to have happened to the supposed SSA in Iberomaurisians and their early Neolithic descendants.
The "Egyptian Negro" I'm going to interpret as that 33% of the "Negroid" Egyptian populace noted in UNESCO 1974. This was the single most common "Egyptian" type. It's interest to see that it cluster s with Bantu's and West Africans. This leads great support for the argument that these people in those regions descended from Nile Valley lineages as described here.
quote:Nubia has been a corridor for the movement of goods, culture, and people between sub-Saharan Africa, Egypt, and West Eurasia since prehistory, but little is known about the genetic landscape of the region prior to the influence of the Islamic migrations that began in the late 1st millennium CE. We report genome-wide data for 66 individuals from the site of Kulubnarti (~650-1000 CE), increasing the number of ancient individuals with genome-level data from the Nile Valley from three to 69. Our results shed light on the genetic ancestry of a Christian Period group and help to address a long-standing question about the relationships among people buried in two neighboring cemeteries who show skeletal evidence of differences in morbidity and mortality that are broadly suggestive of differences in social status. We find that the Kulubnarti Nubians were admixed with ~43% Nilotic-related ancestry on average (individual proportions varied between ~36-54%) and the remaining ancestry reflecting a West Eurasian-related gene pool likely introduced into Nubia through Egypt, but ultimately deriving from an ancestry pool like that found in the Bronze and Iron Age Levant. The admixed ancestry at Kulubnarti reflects interactions between genetically-distinct people in northeast Africa spanning almost a millennium, with West Eurasian ancestry disproportionately associated with females, highlighting the impact of female mobility in this region. We find no significant differences in ancestry among individuals from the two plausibly socially-stratified cemeteries at Kulubnarti, supporting hypotheses that the groups may have been socially divided but were not genetically distinct. We identify seven pairs of inter-cemetery relatives as close as second-degree, suggesting that any social divisions at Kulubnarti did not prevent mixing between groups. Present-day Nubians are not directly descended from the Christian Period people from Kulubnarti without additional admixture, attesting to the dynamic history of interaction that continues to shape the cultural and genetic landscape of Nubia.
I have two questions about this study. Firstly, what exactly is meant by "Nilotic"? Do they mean modern Nilo-Saharan speakers like Dinka and Nuer, or do they mean all populations indigenous to the Nile region including Nubians and even Baladi Egyptians? Second, what is meant by "Western Eurasian"? I ask this question since Bronze and Iron Age Levantine folk of Western Eurasia were found to carry mtDNA haplogroups L2a and N1 which originated in Africa even though they are not typical of Nilotic populations today.
By the way, Tukuler's thread on ancient Israelites here show that not all Levantine folk were exactly the fair-skinned Middle Eastern type people most folks presume.
-------------------- Mahirap gisingin ang nagtutulog-tulugan. Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by beyoku: Euros not liking this X Chromosome data.
As soon as those Africans moved outside of Africa into the Levant and Crescent, they instantaneously became Eurasians after an "x" (no pun intended) amount of time. The other way around means they stay Eurasian. it's a very simple theory also known as the "because I say so theory".
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Nubia has been a corridor for the movement of goods, culture, and people between sub-Saharan Africa, Egypt, and West Eurasia since prehistory, but little is known about the genetic landscape of the region prior to the influence of the Islamic migrations that began in the late 1st millennium CE. We report genome-wide data for 66 individuals from the site of Kulubnarti (~650-1000 CE), increasing the number of ancient individuals with genome-level data from the Nile Valley from three to 69. Our results shed light on the genetic ancestry of a Christian Period group and help to address a long-standing question about the relationships among people buried in two neighboring cemeteries who show skeletal evidence of differences in morbidity and mortality that are broadly suggestive of differences in social status. We find that the Kulubnarti Nubians were admixed with ~43% Nilotic-related ancestry on average (individual proportions varied between ~36-54%) and the remaining ancestry reflecting a West Eurasian-related gene pool likely introduced into Nubia through Egypt, but ultimately deriving from an ancestry pool like that found in the Bronze and Iron Age Levant. The admixed ancestry at Kulubnarti reflects interactions between genetically-distinct people in northeast Africa spanning almost a millennium, with West Eurasian ancestry disproportionately associated with females, highlighting the impact of female mobility in this region. We find no significant differences in ancestry among individuals from the two plausibly socially-stratified cemeteries at Kulubnarti, supporting hypotheses that the groups may have been socially divided but were not genetically distinct. We identify seven pairs of inter-cemetery relatives as close as second-degree, suggesting that any social divisions at Kulubnarti did not prevent mixing between groups. Present-day Nubians are not directly descended from the Christian Period people from Kulubnarti without additional admixture, attesting to the dynamic history of interaction that continues to shape the cultural and genetic landscape of Nubia.
I have two questions about this study. Firstly, what exactly is meant by "Nilotic"? Do they mean modern Nilo-Saharan speakers like Dinka and Nuer, or do they mean all populations indigenous to the Nile region including Nubians and even Baladi Egyptians? Second, what is meant by "Western Eurasian"? I ask this question since Bronze and Iron Age Levantine folk of Western Eurasia were found to carry mtDNA haplogroups L2a and N1 which originated in Africa even though they are not typical of Nilotic populations today.
By the way, Tukuler's thread on ancient Israelites here show that not all Levantine folk were exactly the fair-skinned Middle Eastern type people most folks presume.
"Here, we specifically use Dinka as a proxy for Nilotic-related ancestry based on evidence that groups such as the Dinka occupying the region around the White Nile show long-term genetic continuity, genetic isolation, and genetic links to ancestral East African people, and that an “unadmixed” Nubian gene-pool is genetically most similar to Nilotic people"
So nilotic in this study means Dinka
"Levant_BAIA (the population that gave the most negative Z-score in f3-statistic tests and is shown using qpAdm to be the best proxy for West Eurasian-related ancestry at Kulubnarti, described below) as WestEurasia_Test."
Bronze/Iron age Levant was the West Eurasian reference
I wonder if the preference towards Iron age levant rather than Chalcolithic represents legitimate recent Eurasian ancestry present in Nubia...
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Social stratification without genetic differentiation at the site of Kulubnarti in Christian Period Nubia Kendra A. Sirak 2021
Individuals from Kulubnarti fall along the Nilo-Saharan–West Eurasian cline, approximately overlapping present-day Sudanese Arabs, Beja, and Nubians, as well as Semitic and Cushitic-speaking Ethiopians, suggesting that they have both West Eurasian-related ancestry and ancestry related to Nilo-Saharan speakers (in what follows, we use “Nilotic” to refer to the ancestry related to the people indigenous to parts of northeastern Africa, including the Nile Valley, who speak Nilo-Saharan languages).[b] The Kulubnarti Nubians on average are shifted slightly toward present-day West Eurasians relative to present-day Nubians, who are [b]estimated to have ~40% West Eurasian-related ancestry.
We find that the Kulubnarti Nubians were admixed with ~43% Niloticrelated ancestry on average (individual proportions varied between ~36-54%) and the remaining ancestry reflecting a West Eurasian-related gene pool likely introduced into Nubia through Egypt, but ultimately deriving from an ancestry pool like that found in the Bronze and Iron Age Levant. The admixed ancestry at Kulubnarti reflects interactions between genetically-distinct people in northeast Africa spanning almost a millennium, with West Eurasian ancestry disproportionately associated with females, highlighting the impact of female mobility in this region
Discussion
Leveraging previously-published genome-wide data from three ancient Egyptians, we show that the West Eurasian-related ancestry detected at Kulubnarti was plausibly introduced via people from Egypt who harbored a majority of Western Eurasian-related ancestry and a minor proportion of Nilotic-related ancestry. The introduction of West Eurasian-related ancestry through Egypt is consistent with archaeological evidence of connections between Egypt and the Levant established by the first half of the 4th millennium BCE74,75 and between Egypt and Nubia ongoing since at least the second half of the 3rd millennium BCE1-4,76,77. Archaeological and strontium isotope studies have identified Egyptian occupation as far as southern Upper Nubia4,76,78,79 and have uncovered well-established cultural and material links between Nubia and the Ptolemaic and Roman Egyptian and Hellenistic worlds existing alongside indigenous cultural traditions rooted in Sudanic Africa76,80. Studies of skeletal morphology61,81 and genetic studies of present-day populations52 suggest long-term interactions between Egypt and Nubia involving gene flow. We now provide further support for these interactions using ancient DNA.
Third, we show that the admixture events that contributed to the gene pool at Kulubnarti occurred over a period of around a millennium, with this ongoing and relatively recent admixture contributing to substantial inter-individual variance in ancestry proportions. The rise (~300 BCE) and collapse (~350 CE) of the Meroitic Kingdom in Nubia provides a possible historical context for admixture between Egyptian peoples carrying West Eurasian-related ancestry and local Nubians (who may also have already had some amount of West Eurasian-related ancestry by this time, a process that would be further clarified by additional ancient DNA analysis of older individuals from Nubia).
...in support of previous findings that present-day Nubians were influenced genetically by additional waves of admixture that post-date the Christian Period, we find no evidence that they descended directly from the Kulubnarti Nubians. Instead, interactions involving gene flow between genetically-distinct peoples continued following the Christian Period, with estimated dates of admixture suggesting that the Arab conquest of Egypt and Sudan influenced not only the cultural landscape, but also the genetic landscape of this region. Taken together, our results reveal a dynamic population history in Nubia that began thousands of years ago and has continued into the present day
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posted
^ Never mind, I only recently bothered to check if the full text is available and I am currently in the process of reading it.
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quote:Originally posted by One Third African: We find that the Kulubnarti Nubians were admixed with ~43% Nilotic-related ancestry on average (individual proportions varied between ~36-54%) and the remaining ancestry reflecting a West Eurasian-related gene pool likely introduced into Nubia through Egypt, but ultimately deriving from an ancestry pool like that found in the Bronze and Iron Age Levant.
By that logic an Afro American who marries an African from the continent can be interpreted as a back migration as a fusion from an Eurasian gene pool into a West African family.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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posted
Interesting topic/thread. Here some more talk about nubians in the middle ages and later dna and admixture in some of them over time in the link below as well.
Topic: Nubians are an admixed group with gene-flow from outside of Africa
quote:Originally posted by Firewall: Here is some of my updated views.
Modern nubians
quote: When i look up current info for modern nubians they will mention nubians in egypt,sudan,hill nubians,nubians of darfur etc..
When looking at the dna info for modern nubians later on the study on wiki is really talking about nile valley nubians in the sudan on the nile.
Here some examples.
quote:
Genetics Y-DNA
Y-DNA analysis by Hassan et al. (2008) on a sample of 39 Nubians found that: Around 17 of his Nubian samples from Sudan carried haplogroup J 9 belonged to the haplogroup E1b1b clade
M-DNA Regarding the M-DNA lineages, Hassan (2009) found that approximately 83% of their Nubian samples carried various subclades of the Africa-centered macrohaplogroup L. Of these, the most frequent were:
quote: So this study above is not talking about hill nubians,nubians of darfur,nubians in chad or near the chad border or even nubians in kenya and uganda or arabized hill nubians and arabized darfur nubians.
So you have to be careful reading that info because it's misleading. For nubians and arabized nubians outside the nile valley sudan and to have get the dna info for nubians in egypt,kenya,uganda,darfur,chad,noba hills etc...
Someone needs to do a edit and make it clear for the nubians wiki page that the dna study is not for other modern nubians outside the nile valley sudan.
For example i do not see this info at all for hill nubians.
Hill Nubians and others.(Central sudan)
quote: (Nilo-Saharan, Eastern Sudanic) 46 % A3b2-M13 - Nilotic 14.2% B-M60 - Nilotic 14.2% E1b1b-M215(xE1b1b1a-M7.8. - North East Africa 25 % E1b1b1a1-V12(xE1b1b1a1b-V32) North East Africa
For hill nubians i will have look for info for the noba hills for example.
Another point most arab sudanese do have admixture but here is something else that is misleading.The study for arabs in the sudan is including brown and white ones and they are large number in the sudan or arabs who are from sudan. If you take out the black arabs and only focus on black arabs of sudan then most do not have arab dna or other race admixture. Keep in mind when arab dna is talked about for sudanese arabs that study often is talking about brown and white ones as well.
Note- Changing the subject here. In real life Huge numbers of White americans( hispanic whites and non hispanics) have modern native and black ancestry but that's not talk about as often. I think i read something recently saying it's the majority of white americans. If not then a large minority of white americans,but i think it's majority from new recent reports.
Looking at recent dna for white afrikaners from south africa,all of them have other race admixture.
Speaking about admixture talk,the above reminds me of a talk i had with another poster about white and african americans and admixture talk. Here is a quick reminder.
Topic: Who This? Amazigh, Greek, Bedouin, Kurds ?
quote:Originally posted by Firewall:
quote:Originally posted by Antalas: The guy is a an AA which means mostly west african with some european ancestry and he obsessed over north african and the middle east because of his inner complexes and self hatred...pathetic.
Don't assume someone has some european ancestry just because they belong to the group you mention. Have you seen his dna results or even seen what he looks like etc...? I dont think so.
So some african americans will not have european ancestry and most do not have any other race ancestry.
Just because that person is african american don't assume that all AA are mostly west african as well.
It's like trying to say a person who is latino who is white born in americas must have automatic native american or african dna or both and we know there are some that don't(most do but some don't).
posted
Recall the Hassan 2009 study: The area known today as Sudan may have been the scene of pivotal human evolutionary events, both as a corridor for ancient and modern migrations, as well as the venue of crucial past cultural evolution. Several questions pertaining to the pattern of succession of the different groups in early Sudan have been raised. To shed light on these aspects, ancient DNA (aDNA) and present DNA collection were made and studied using Y-chromosome markers for aDNA, and Y-chromosome and mtDNA markers for present DNA. Bone samples from different skeletal elements of burial sites from Neolithic, Meroitic, Post-Meroitic and Christian periods in Sudan were collected from Sudan National Museum. aDNA extraction was successful in 35 out of 76 samples, PCR was performed for sex determination using Amelogenin marker. Fourteen samples were females and 19 were males. To generate Y-chromosome specific haplogroups A-M13, B-M60, F-M89 and Y Alu Polymorphism (YAP) markers, which define the deep ancestral haplotypes in the phylogenetic tree of Y-chromosome were used. **Haplogroups A-M13 was found at high frequencies among Neolithic samples.** Haplogroup F-M89 and YAP appeared to be more frequent among Meroitic, Post-Meroitic and Christian periods. Haplogroup B-M60 was not observed in the sample analyzed.
So the Y-chromosome profile of Neolithic Nubians (A-Group/Qustul Culture) appears very Nilotic yet craniofacially they are not different from Egyptian Naqada samples. YAP (hg DE) and F-M89 are associated with successive Nubian cultures yet craniofacially the peoples of these culture display greater "negroid" morphology than the Neolithic. This is especially true with the post-Meroitic and Christian era remains associated with sites like Kulubnarti, yet discrete dental traits show that they were equally North African as Meroites and Egyptians and NOT "sub-Saharan" and the autosomal data indicates "West-Eurasian related influence" in Kulubnarti along with a Nilotic ("Dinka") related ancestry. What about the C.L. Fox 1997 study showing ~ 39% hpa I among Meroite Nubians? What are we to make of Nubian genetic history, then??
-------------------- Mahirap gisingin ang nagtutulog-tulugan. Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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