posted 02 June 2005 11:43 AM            

How cute you are..! People like me never get offended of facts. What angers me is the lies and the falsehood of yours and theirs.

I started my posts here saying that Egyptians do not give a fu*ck about colours. In fact I described my people as colour blind.
BUT, to play that old stupid game again and again is what angers me. Relax,Relaxx, not to worry, I can take it.
Come up with your details, I promise I would not be offended.

Egypt is NOT black, Egypt is NOT arab.
Egypt is Egyptian.Full stop.

posted 02 June 2005 12:29 PM            

Abyssinia have ruled Southern Abysinia between 300 AD - 600 AD

Also trade routes were there 2000 years before the rule of abyssinia to southern arabia.

After Islam , intermarriges between East africa and arabia has increased.

posted 02 June 2005 12:38 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by AMR1:
ALL THE PICTURES OF THOSE SOMALI GIRLS Above shows that the Somalis have mixed extensively with YEMANIS.

---

Nope. Argument by picture spam has no value, other than as a tool for asserting wishful thinking as substitute for hard facts which cannot be refuted.

quote:

---

Abyssinia also ruled Somalia and Nubia in the same period that it had military control of Southern Arabia.

---

Actually South Arabia has more African ancestry than groups like the Somali or Oromo have Arabian ancestry.

Southern Arabia has more WEST/CENTRAL AFRICAN E3a lineage than the Somali do.

But don't let the facts confuse you.

Continue your mindless rant....

posted 02 June 2005 12:50 PM            

Salam Amr,
Somalia and Ethiopia are next door to Yemen. It is , therefore, naturally that their features are very alike. Only in Somalia and Ehiopia cases there are darker.

And, yes, you are right, they mix married for centuries. Remember that Arabs crossed these countries through trade route.
Almost all my Somali students do speak or understand Arabic very well.
The ones from Eritria in particular do look very much Arab. Very much.I dared to ask one of them if she was an Arab ?

posted 02 June 2005 12:57 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by relaxx:
maybe just 7 million Somalis, and I forgot many more in Eastern Africa. Just do the math and don't dream...and you're not the purer compare to the Oromos and Afars and other Eastern Africa, you know that...Yemen all over your face... You're not alone
Relaxx

---

Wrong facts, pal. Somalia alone has at least a ten million people now, with all those miserable civil war, famine, etc. Djibouti (Jabuuti) is a Somali nation, which has 500,000 people. The Soomaali Galbeed (the annexed and occupied part of Ethiopia) is five million-strong Somalis. Another half-to-one million live the other British-bestowed land to Kenya. Plus all those Diaspora-based Somalis. Do the math. At least they are 15 million Somalis. At maximum, they are estimated to be 25 million. And figures ranging between all.

posted 02 June 2005 01:04 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by salama:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by relaxx:
[B] That's a good joke Salama, I don't want to go into details, you might be offended, but if you insist I'll go into details.

How cute you are..! People like me never get offended of facts. What angers me is the lies and the falsehood of yours and theirs.

I started my posts here saying that Egyptians do not give a fu*ck about colours. In fact I described my people as colour blind.
BUT, to play that old stupid game again and again is what angers me. Relax,Relaxx, not to worry, I can take it.
Come up with your details, I promise I would not be offended.

Egypt is NOT black, Egypt is NOT arab.
Egypt is Egyptian.Full stop.

[This message has been edited by salama (edited 02 June 2005).]

---

OFcoarse Egypt is for Egyptians, and Egyptians are Africans. Even if you are white you have to learn to accept that. Well anywayz you can't say egypt is not black, because egypt is DIVERSE, so you have many color in the spectrum that includes blacks (alot of eygptians could pass as blacks here in US). You as well as anybody else has not right to put lable on what Egyptians are today. Because of divesity Similar to Brazil, Cuba, PR, and the Dominicans.

posted 02 June 2005 01:11 PM            

I think people are forgetting that non-Arabs used to inhabit southern Yemen before the expansion of the proto-Semetic languages. There are people in Yemen such as the Mahra,Qahra,and other tribes that are more connected to North-eastern Africans than to northern Arabs.

The Arabs themselves divide themselves into Qahtani and Adanan Arabs. The Qahtani are from Yemen and real Arabs;while the Adnan are Arabized Arabs. These two groups are distinct ethnically.

There are actually Yemani Arabs that are much darker and with distinct features from a modern Somali,Eritrean,or Habesha[Amharan].

Just as there has been migration of Himyarite or Sabeans into the Horn of Africa,and so have there been migrations from the Horn into Yemen from pre-history:

he three tribes
that speak Mahra are known to other Arabs as the Ahl al Hadara. They
are the Qarra, Mahra and Harasis with parts of other tribes (WT
p.47.) The language is derived from the language of the Sabaeans,
Minaeans and Himyarites. The Mahra with other Southern Arabian
peoples seem aligned to the Hamitic race of north-east Africa. The
Mahra are believed to be descended from the Habasha, who colonised
Ethiopia in the first millennium BC (WT p. 198). Many Bait Kathir
understand the Mahri language. The Qarra and Mahra have almost
beardless faces, fuzzy hair and dark pigmentation (WP171).
http://www.globalconnections.co.uk/pdfs/MAHRAArabs.pdf

Report:
Near Eastern languages came from Africa 10,000 years ago
Investigator: Ene Metspalu
Tuesday May 28th, 2002
by Laura Spinney
Analysis of thousands of mitochondrial DNA samples has led Estonian
archeogeneticists to the origins of Arabic. Ene Metspalu of the
Department of Evolutionary Biology at Tartu University and the
Estonian Biocentre in Tartu, claims to have evidence that the Arab-
Berber languages of the Near and Middle East came out of East Africa
around 10,000 years ago. She has found evidence for what may have
been the last sizeable migration out of Africa before the slave
trade.
Genetic markers transmitted through either the maternal or paternal
line have been used to trace the great human migrations since Homo
sapiens emerged in Africa. But attempts to trace the evolution of
languages have met with less success, partly because of the impact on
languages of untraceable political and economic upheavals.
Metspalu and colleagues analyzed inherited variations in a huge
number of samples - almost 3000 - of mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) taken
from natives of the Near East, Middle East and Central Asia, as well
as North and East Africa.
mtDNA is inherited through the maternal line, and by comparing their
data with existing data on European, Indian, Siberian and other
Central Asian populations, the researchers were able to create a
comprehensive phylogenetic map of maternal lineages diverging from
Africa and spreading towards Europe and Asia.
Working in collaboration with language specialists, they found that
this movement 10,000 years ago, which was probably centred on
Ethiopia, could well have been responsible for seeding the Afro-
Asiatic language from which all modern Arab-Berber languages are
descended.
"This language was spoken in Africa 10,000 or 12,000 years ago,"
Metspalu told BioMedNet News. "We think it was around that time that
carriers brought these Afro-Asiatic languages to the Near East." The
language, or its derivatives, later spread much further afield.
What could have triggered the movement she can only speculate. One
possibility is that increasing desertification was causing famine in
Africa and driving hunters further afield in search of animals.
Interestingly, the lineages they traced through this 10,000-year-old
migration didn't seem to get much further north than modern-day Syria
or east of modern-day Iraq. There is no evidence of the lineages in
the mtDNA of people from Turkey or Iran, says Metspalu.
"We can't understand why this boundary [to the Arab-Berber speaking
world] is so sharp," she said. "They came out of Africa, and when
they reached Turkey they just stopped." She believes some kind of
physical boundary, now vanished, must have impeded them.
The same genetic detective work has confirmed archeological evidence
that the biggest movement out of Africa occurred around 50,000 years
ago - which is when Africans first settled in other continents - and
that it originated in a small East African population.
<http://news.bmn.com/join>

Journal of World Prehistory
12 (1): 55-119, March 1998
Southwest Arabia During the Holocene: Recent Archaeological Developments
Christopher Edens, T.J. Wilkinson
Abstract
Recent fieldwork has considerably increased our knowledge of early
Holocene settlement in Southwest Arabia. Neolithic settlement occured
within an environmental context of increased monsoonal moisture that
continued during the mid-Holocene. A now well-attested Bronze Age
exemplified by village and town settlements occupied by sedentary
farmers developed toward the end of the mid-Holocene moist interval.
The high plateau of Yemen was an early focus for the development of
Bronze Age complex society, the economy of which relied upon terrace
rain fed and runoff agriculture. On the fringes of the Arabian Desert,
the precursors of the Sabaean literate civilization have been traced
back to between 3600 and 2800 B.P., and even earlier, so that a
virtually continuous archaeological record can now be desribe for
parts of Yemen. In contrast to the highlands these societies relied
upon food production from large scale irrigation systems dependent
upon capricious wadi floods. Bronze Age settlement, while showing some
links with the southern Levant, now shows equal or stronger linkages
with the Horn of Africa across the Red Sea. Although some regions of
Yemen show breaks in occupation, others show continuity into the
Sabaean period when a series of major towns grew up in response to the
increased incense trade with the north. It is now clear that these
civilizations grew up on the foundations of earlier Bronze Age complex
societies.

Finally, Nicolas Faraclas suggests that the roots of Semitic languages, which are classified as part of the Afro-Asiatic language family, lie in the Dorfur-Kordofan region on the eastern edge of the Chad-Sudan border. He uses linguistic, archaeological, and climatic evidence to trace the routes by which Afro-Asiatic languages seem to have spread. The Niger-Congo, Nilo-Saharan, and Afro-Asiatic languages all seem to have diverged in a migration that began with the Last Major Wet Spell of the Sahara, which ran from 10,000 B.C. to 5,000 B.C. I am not qualified to judge the linguistic evidence he summarizes, but the maps he draws from that evidence and on which he bases his conclusions are persuasive. Expect to see the article cited regularly in world history literature.
http://www.h-net.msu.edu/reviews/showrev.cgi?path=19489869847896

posted 02 June 2005 01:30 PM            

By the way, although half of my blood is European through my mother, I am the only one in my family who is NOT white.
In fact, this was the reason ,I read Egytology at Cairo University (my very Egyptian looks) that I am known for..
Now, you and them, should learn to accept that.

Let me tell a short incident happened to me just three years ago.
I was in SF, walking in the O'Farrel street, next to the Lacy Shopping centre, sat a woman with her cat, painted her face like ancient emulating Egyptian women ( using kohl, and blusher)

I was really tired that day, walking for sometime looking for a cheap hotel having lost my purse the previous night.

Out of the blues, this woman ran behind me caughting my top. Shocked, I ask her what does she want?

You are An Egyptian..!Are not you?
How did you know? I was not wearing the Neffertiti crown ..

Also, regarding racism toward blacks, you could not be further from the truth. My first admirer was a son of the Zairi embassador in Cairo years ago. A man that I, and my father greatly admired..
------------------
Then you wrote:

Well anywayz you can't say egypt is not black, because egypt is DIVERSE, so you have many color in the spectrum that includes blacks (alot of eygptians could pass as blacks here in US).
---------

No, that is NOT correct, the Southern have mixed with the African Blacks mainly from Sudan.
Egyptians themselves are not black.
-------------
You wrote:

(Many Ashraf say they have a linage of Arab in thier blood, but they dont consider themselves ARAB, they find it offending)

Perhaps you are the one who is a racist here?

posted 02 June 2005 01:37 PM            

Southern Egyptians have always been ''black'' The mixing with Sudanese is minimal. We can easily make the argument that Northern Egyptians have mixed with Arabs,Turks,Circassians[Eastern European slaves],Armenians,and Greeks.

Sudanese people have never migrated in large numbers in Saeed. Saidi people from Luxor-Aswan are the purest people in modern day Egypt. The rural people there only intermarry with their cousins and not any foreigner Sudanese or otherwise.

From pre-dyanstic times Southern Egypt was always inhabited by negriod people.

posted 02 June 2005 01:41 PM            

quote:

---

I think people are forgetting that non-Arabs used to inhabit southern Yemen before the expansion of the proto-Semetic languages.

---

lol. Salama doesn't like the "East African" appearance of some AE iconography and is looking for a way out:

Scholars now recognize that the Arab factor--except for the Somalis' conversion to Islam--is marginal to understanding the Somali past.

Increasingly, evidence places the Somalis within a wide family of peoples called Eastern Cushites. From a broader cultural-linguistic perspective, the Cushite family belongs to a vast stock of languages and peoples considered Afro-Asiatic. Afro-Asiatic languages in turn include Cushitic (principally Somali, Oromo, and Afar), the Hausa language of Nigeria, and the Semitic languages of Arabic, Hebrew, and Amharic. Medieval Arabs referred to the Eastern Cushites as the Berberi.

In addition to the Somalis, the Cushites include the largely nomadic Afar (Danakil), who straddle the Great Rift Valley between Ethiopia and Djibouti; the Oromo, who have played such a large role in Ethiopian history and in the 1990s constituted roughly one-half of the Ethiopian population and were also numerous in northern Kenya; the Reendille (Rendilli) of Kenya; and the Aweera (Boni) along the Lamu coast in Kenya. The Somalis belong to a subbranch of the Cushites, the Omo-Tana group, whose languages are almost mutually intelligible. The original home of the Omo-Tana group appears to have been on the Omo and Tana rivers, in an area extending from Lake Turkana in present-day northern Kenya to the Indian Ocean coast. -countrystudies.us/somalia/3.htm

Ancient Puntites:

posted 02 June 2005 04:01 PM            

Southern Egyptians have always been ''black'' The mixing with Sudanese is minimal. We can easily make the argument that Northern Egyptians have mixed with Arabs,Turks,Circassians[Eastern European slaves],Armenians,and Greeks.
-------------
Sadly, I found Blacks to be the most racist of human being, and most elaborate when inventing stories.!perhaps the feeling of MINUS?

Upper Egypt people have never been black- they have been always light brown.
Sudanese men have always desired and married Egyptian women- still are-

It is natural that the further you go south, the darker the people would look.

It do not know what did mean by Eastern European Slaves? or just you could not help your racist nature?
Which Euro.slaves you mean?
---------------
Then he wrote:
Saidi people from Luxor-Aswan are the purest people in modern day Egypt. The rural people there only intermarry with their cousins and not any foreigner

Perhaps not, although it is a tradition for all village folks north and south to intermarry. the southern in particular were too speedy to mixmarry with Nubian after the high Dam.
In the case of Sudan, Sudanese men married Egyptian women and took them back to the Sudan, this explains why some Sudanese are lighter than others specially in Khartoum, Port Sudan and Om Dorman.
----------
Then to end his elaborate story, he added:

From pre-dyanstic times Southern Egypt was always inhabited by negriod people.

Pre- dynastic ? you must be kidding ?
Untill very recently, negroid ( your term ) were still hunting wild pigs to eat raw.
In fact, some tribes are still at it.
Take Kenya's tribes who still live in caves till today.

Sorry to disappoint you, my black friend, but has never, and will never be Black.

posted 02 June 2005 04:16 PM            

For Allah sake, man, do you really think that is an Egyptian face? if so, then I advise you to visit Egypt and see how Egyptians look like.

You are insulting Egyptian women emulating them with this figuare..!
You remind me with those boutique owners in Brixton and Harlem..!

You must Never be ashamed of your skin colour so much so to turn history into fiction.

There is nothing wronge with black colour, kinky hair or wide nose..Allah has created us different.

posted 02 June 2005 04:33 PM            

The Nubians you mentioned were only relocated to Kom Ombo,and none of them inermarry with Saidi Egyptians. Most refuse to intermarry.
Ask any Nubian around Aswan and he/she will tell you that they never intermarry with Upper Egyptians.

The reason why many Northern Sudanese are lighter is because of mixture with Arabs,and not from mixing with Egyptians. During the Middle Ages many Arabs came to Egypt and Sudan,and many of these Arabs fled further south into Sudan.

quote:

---

Pre- dynastic ? you must be kidding ?
Untill very recently, negroid ( your term ) were still hunting wild pigs to eat raw.
In fact, some tribes are still at it.
Take Kenya's tribes who still live in caves till today.

Sorry to disappoint you, my black friend, but has never, and will never be Black.

---

Nobody in Kenya or any part of Africa lives in caves in the modern era. You seem to forget that the people who later developed dyanstic Egyptian civlization came from humble origins.

Negriod skeletal remains were found in Upper Egypt from the pre-dyanstic era,and many modern Egyptians living in Upper Egypt still have negriod features:

The existence of still earlier culture,called the Tasins,has been
claimed. This culture would have been chracterized by the pressure of
round based calic form beakers with incised designs filled with white
pigment,which are also known fropm contexts of similar date in
Nelothic Sudan. However,the exisdtanece of the Tasins as a
chronologically or culturally seperated unit has never been
demonstrated beyond beyond doubt. Although most scholars consider the
tasian to be simply part of the badarian culture,it has also been
argued that the tasian represents the continuation of Lower Egyptian
tradition,which would be the immediate predessor of the Naquda 1
culture. This however,seems rather implausible ,first because
similarities with the neolithic cultures are no
convincing,and,secondly,because of the tasins obvious ceramic links
with the sudan. If the Tasians must be considered as a specific
cultural entity,then it might represent a nomadic culture with a
Sudanese background,which interacted with the badarian culture
page 40

Ian Shaw

Oxford University of Ancient Egypt

The mid-twentieth Egyptologist Alan Gardiner, who was considered an
authority on the ancient civilization of Kemet, gave the following
report on the human remains of the pre-dynastic Badarians, Amratians,
and Gerzeans:
"These... were long-headed-dolicocephalic is the learned term-and
below even medium stature, but Negroid features are often to be
observed. Whatever may be said of the northerners, it is safe to
describe the dwellers in Upper Egypt as of essentially African stock,
a character always retained despite alien influences brought to bear
on them from time to time." (pg. 392; Egypt of the Pharaohs 1966)

In discussing the Badari culture, for example -- Egypt's earliest predynastic
civilization (4400-4000 BC) -- Shomarka Keita writes that many researchers
have found their remains to be "fundamentally `Negroid'."

Going back even further in time, Keita states:

"...late paleolithic remains from Egypt indicate characteristics which
distinguish them clearly from their European counterparts at 30,000 and
20,000 years BP... These distinguishing characteristics, commonly called
`Negroid,' are shared with later Nile valley and more southerly groups...
Epipaleolithic `mesolithic' Nile valley remains have these characteristics
and diverge notably from their Maghreban and European counterparts in key
craniofacial characteristics."

(S.O.Y. Keita, "Studies and Comments on Ancient Egyptian Biological
Relationships", History in Africa 20 (1993), page 135).

The movement or diffusion of people out of and into Egypt during
this time span from before 4000 B.C.-2000 B.C. or later evolution of
this slightly negriod paedomorphic stock into Dyansty Upper
Egyptians was probably a local development from the unknown latest
hunters of the Lower Nile,while mixture of more massive and rugged
[and also negriod ] Nubians[Anderson,1969];Armelagos,1969] produced
some of the rugged Pre-dyanstic variants . Disease and dietary
selection would have affected the population probably more than
immigration and mixture. Lower Egypt may have had a slightly
different population,less linear in the skull variant but with
longer face,like the earliest farmers in Greece ,but also with thin
noses. But I have to use a IX Dyansty series [Woo ,1930] as a base
for this statement and almost certainly this group in the late third
milliennium B.C. shows minor effects of mixture with sea-trading
peoples from the Levant and Agean. Cyprus since the early Neolithic
[Angel,1953;Furst,1933] had both very lateral and some linear skulls
elements and could have been a source of change and there were
probably exchanges with Palestine[Korgman ,1949;Hrdlicka,1938] and
Mesopotamia [Angel ,1951],both with long [Angel,1951],both with long
headed populations with medium or low rather than linear faces and
some of the same lateral element as in early Anatolian[cf. the later
Hitties] and the Agean [Angel,1951]. The latter is supposed to have
increased in numbers [from what selective force?] in the Bronze Age
and perhaps to have affected Lower Egypt via the Hykos.
This is not enough evidence. But the intruders who appeared in
Greece at time of Indo-Europeans acceptance[Angel,1971] are fairly
robust Iranian[or Nordic Iranian] in form[Korgman,1940] with definite
short and low headed and also intermediate forms of skull: I think
that the Hykos wew probably a parallel blend and also may have had
little genetic effect in an area of high population density already.

page 310

J. Lawrence Angel

Divison of Physical Anthropology
Smithstonian Institution

Washington,D.C. 20560 ,U.S.A.
Received 18 April 1969

Biological Relations of Egyptian and Eastern Mediterranean
Populations during Pre-dynastic and Dyanstic
Time*

Lower Egypt on the other hand was probally composed of more a mixture of Africans and non-African people. We see this from evidence from burial sites in the cultures of Lower Egypt.

See the following:

There was probably a break in occupation between levels I and II at
Merimda. Level II, known as the Mittleren Merimdekultur and considered by
the by the excavator to be related to the Saharo-Sudanese cultures..."
The Oxford History of Ancient Egypt
Pg 38
======================================================================
"The Fayum Neolithic should thus be viewed as a culture at the intersection
of three routes: one from the eastern Sahara, one from the Near East and one
from the Nile Valley itself."
The Prehistory of Egypt
By Beatrix Midant-Reynes
Pg. 106
=====================================================================

Here is Midant-Reynes statement on the remains of a 40 year old
epipaleolithic woman from the Fayum Oasis in the same book:
" The body was that of a 40 year old woman with a height of 1.6 meters, who
was of a more modern racial type than the classic "Mechtoid" of the
Fakhurian culture, being generally gracile, having large teeth and thick
jaws bearing some resemblance to the modern "negroid' type."
The Prehistory of Egypt
By Beatrix Midant-Reynes
Pg. 82
======================================================================
"The prognathism observed in the skulls from Maadi south and Heliopolis may
or may not indicate the infiltration of a negroid strain into the northern
region."
Most Ancient Egypt
By William C. Hayes
======================================================================

Fundamentally,the people with the most trace to ancient Egyptian culture are probabaly the Fellahin in both Lower and Upper Egypt. majority of the modern population of Egypt tend to come from the Fellahin with some exceptions of some elite Egyptians living in the city of Cairo because many of them can trace their ancestry from Mamelukes,Turks,and even some bedouin Arabs.

See the following link: http://www-oi.uchicago.edu/OI/ANE/ANE-DIGEST/V02/v02.n077
[scroll down to the thread by Peter Piccone]

Finally, let it be said that the ancient Egyptians were not white=20 Caucasians, nor were they Indo-Aryans. They were African, primarily a brown race, although fair= =20 skinned and leptorhine in the north, black skinned and platyrhine in the south, and= =20 various shades in the middle. They manifested all the physical differences you=20 would expect in so large a continent as Africa. Trigger (see below) uses the term=20 "Nilotic" to refer to their heterogenous character. When all is said and done, though,= =20 this whole question of Egyptian racial identity says more about us today than it does= =20 about the ancient Egyptians.

Sorry to disapoint you,but Upper Egyptians have always been dark-brown. From Dyanstic times untill modern times. Southern Upper Egyptians living from Luxor-Aswan are the purest people in modern Egypt.

During the Medieval era in Egyptian history white slaves were imported into Northern Egypt in Cairo. This is a well established fact.

posted 02 June 2005 04:52 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by salama:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by AMR1:
[B]ALL THE PICTURES OF THOSE SOMALI GIRLS Above shows that the Somalis have mixed extensively with YEMANIS.

Salam Amr,
Somalia and Ethiopia are next door to Yemen. It is , therefore, naturally that their features are very alike. Only in Somalia and Ehiopia cases there are darker.

And, yes, you are right, they mix married for centuries. Remember that Arabs crossed these countries through trade route.
Almost all my Somali students do speak or understand Arabic very well.
The ones from Eritria in particular do look very much Arab. Very much.I dared to ask one of them if she was an Arab ?

She also had troubles with other English colleagues who accused her of being Arab ( terrorist ) due to her very arabic looks..!

---

posted 02 June 2005 04:54 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by AMR1:
ALL THE PICTURES OF THOSE SOMALI GIRLS Above shows that the Somalis have mixed extensively with YEMANIS.

Abyssinia have ruled Southern Abysinia between 300 AD - 600 AD

Also trade routes were there 2000 years before the rule of abyssinia to southern arabia.

After Islam , intermarriges between East africa and arabia has increased.

Abyssinia also ruled Somalia and Nubia in the same period that it had military control of Southern Arabia.

---

posted 02 June 2005 04:56 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by salama:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by relaxx:
[B] That's a good joke Salama, I don't want to go into details, you might be offended, but if you insist I'll go into details.

How cute you are..! People like me never get offended of facts. What angers me is the lies and the falsehood of yours and theirs.

I started my posts here saying that Egyptians do not give a fu*ck about colours. In fact I described my people as colour blind.
BUT, to play that old stupid game again and again is what angers me. Relax,Relaxx, not to worry, I can take it.
Come up with your details, I promise I would not be offended.

Egypt is NOT black, Egypt is NOT arab.
Egypt is Egyptian.Full stop.

[This message has been edited by salama (edited 02 June 2005).]

---

posted 02 June 2005 05:01 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by salama:
ausar wrote:

Southern Egyptians have always been ''black'' The mixing with Sudanese is minimal. We can easily make the argument that Northern Egyptians have mixed with Arabs,Turks,Circassians[Eastern European slaves],Armenians,and Greeks.
-------------
Sadly, I found Blacks to be the most racist of human being, and most elaborate when inventing stories.!perhaps the feeling of MINUS?

Upper Egypt people have never been black- they have been always light brown.
Sudanese men have always desired and married Egyptian women- still are-

It is natural that the further you go south, the darker the people would look.

It do not know what did mean by Eastern European Slaves? or just you could not help your racist nature?
Which Euro.slaves you mean?
---------------
Then he wrote:
Saidi people from Luxor-Aswan are the purest people in modern day Egypt. The rural people there only intermarry with their cousins and not any foreigner

Perhaps not, although it is a tradition for all village folks north and south to intermarry. the southern in particular were too speedy to mixmarry with Nubian after the high Dam.
In the case of Sudan, Sudanese men married Egyptian women and took them back to the Sudan, this explains why some Sudanese are lighter than others specially in Khartoum, Port Sudan and Om Dorman.
----------
Then to end his elaborate story, he added:

From pre-dyanstic times Southern Egypt was always inhabited by negriod people.

Pre- dynastic ? you must be kidding ?
Untill very recently, negroid ( your term ) were still hunting wild pigs to eat raw.
In fact, some tribes are still at it.
Take Kenya's tribes who still live in caves till today.

Sorry to disappoint you, my black friend, but has never, and will never be Black.

---

posted 02 June 2005 05:26 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by rasol:
Somali male and female ancestry is East African in origin, over 75% of Somali are of E3b1 gamma Y chromosome lineage. E3b1 gamma is not found in Yemen, neither is E3b father of E3b1 and also essentially exclusive to Africa. Therefore the Somali are of East African origin. Trolls and idiots notwithstanding.

[This message has been edited by rasol (edited 02 June 2005).]

---

posted 02 June 2005 05:34 PM            

Before the Aswan Dam was ever created early European exploerers noted how dark-brown the modern day Upper Egyptians were. Many pointed out that the cloest people to the ancient Egyptians were the southern Upper Egyptians,and that Cairene and Alexandrian Egyptians were clearly mixed.

The dark complexion of the Sa3eedi Upper Egyptians was even noted by Arabic historians like Abd al-Latif and al-Maqrizi.

Relaxx, the racism you see in modern Egypt has alot to do with the British. Historically Northern Egyptians have even had slaves from southern Sudan,and this was a big factor. Which is why I think its funny that Northern Egyptians say we mixed with Sudanese when over 150,000 slaves were imported into Cairo. Most of these slaves were domestic workers.

Fellahin in Lower and Upper Egypt were confined to their villages much like military barracks. Only a few served in the military under the Turkish Ottomans.

Most upper class Egyptians have some form of European or Armenian ancestry. Ask most of them and they will tell you this. No way somebody expects me to believe a Bohary Egyptian with blonde hair is a spitting image of an ancient Egyptian.

This is what an ancient Egyptian looks like in modern Egypt:

[This message has been edited by ausar (edited 02 June 2005).]

posted 02 June 2005 05:52 PM            

[B]This is complete nonsense to say that Upper Egyptians became darker through intermarriage with Sudanese. Most of the Egyptians who migrated into the Sudan came mostly from the North from areas like Cairo and Alexandria with the Anglo-Egyptian forces. No Egyptians migrated from Luxor-Aswan and brought back wives from the Sudan to intermarry.

Wow..! Fiction ? Typical Hollywood drama.
You are the higly knoeldegable Egyptologist, very familiar whose those poor Egyptians,who your ancesters built up civilisation for them and left back to live in Caves.
Back again to his offensive remarks:

The Nubians you mentioned were only relocated to Kom Ombo,and none of them inermarry with Saidi Egyptians. Most refuse to intermarry.
Ask any Nubian around Aswan and he/she will tell you that they never intermarry with Upper Egyptians.

Nubians have settled mainly in Aswan, not Kom Ombo.
Nubians are considered less civilised than a Saeedi.
Remember, there was nothing in Nubia before Egyptians discovered the Gold mines there.
There was civilisation, agriculture perhaps just nile fishing.

On the way from El Shalal ( cataracts ) southern Egypt to Halfa ( northern Sudan )boats used to stop in a numbian Island like called en-nabah ( it is gone now after the Dam)where the nubians used to sell the summer fruits to the boats / ships people- They used to wait for their arrivals for days as they had no other income or industry other than the 40th route crossing the desert from Sudan to Egypt on Camels.

Egypt has indeed civilised many African tribes.

Making me a liar is not very pleasant, I watch the historic documentaries on the BBC regularly. Only very recently they have shown these pigmies from Kenya who as live the same way as they did for many centuries.
This was NOT the first time I saw such a programme.
-------------

The reason why many Northern Sudanese are lighter is because of mixture with Arabs,and not from mixing with Egyptians. During the Middle Ages many Arabs came to Egypt and Sudan,and many of these Arabs fled further south into Sudan.

I doubt very much that Sudanese mixmarried with Arabs- there were NO arabs in Sudan- only Egyptian army officers.

What do mean middle ages, man? you mean in the 6th century? when the arabs have built the most glorious empire that extended from Somalia up to Southern France?
What middle ages?

How fictional your mouth is ( Arabs fled further into Sudan ) ..! Why? Which Arabs are these? and why not stopping in Egypt instead- there is nothing in Sudan, nothing to flee for?

------------------
The rest of your essay is boring and fictional. this is typical, typical Brixton/Harlem talks.

posted 02 June 2005 06:10 PM            

You are wasting your time!!

Thanks for advice.!

posted 02 June 2005 06:13 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Djehuti:
Salama, Ausar just cited several mainstream sources on Nile Valley civilization and nothing you said has refuted them!

You are wasting your time!!

---

Salama attempts sarcasm and attitudge to substitute complete frustration with her own lack of knowledge and inbility to debate the facts....full stop.

posted 02 June 2005 06:42 PM            

quote:

---

Wow..! Fiction ? Typical Hollywood drama.
You are the higly knoeldegable Egyptologist, very familiar whose those poor Egyptians,who your ancesters built up civilisation for them and left back to live in Caves.
Back again to his offensive remarks:

---

My ancestors are Luxor-Aswani Egyptians. Real Sa3eedi Egyptians.

quote:

---

Nubians have settled mainly in Aswan, not Kom Ombo.
Nubians are considered less civilised than a Saeedi.
Remember, there was nothing in Nubia before Egyptians discovered the Gold mines there.
There was civilisation, agriculture perhaps just nile fishing.

---

This is not true. Have you heard of the A-Group Nubian culture that was found by archaeologist. The Gold mines you mention were in Lower Nubia which was less fertile than Upper Nubia located around the 4th cataract. Around the 4th cataract archaeologist Charles Bonett discovered a Pre-Kerman culture.

You can read more about it from the following website:

The first continuous agricultural tradition in Africa, the Sudanese-Saharan Neolithic, developed almost ten thousand years ago in country west of Nubia that is now desert.

The Nile Valley in Egypt had been inhospitable, but in the seasonally dry channels of the Second Cataract, early farmers learned to manage parts of the river's annual flood. This knowledge could then be applied in Egypt's wide floodplain, giving rise to the great sequence of Upper Egypt's early civilizations.

Upper Egypt soon grew wealthy and its culture expanded again into Nubia, where renewed southern contacts gave rise to the first of Nubia's trading cultures, called the A-Group. Incense, copper, gold, objects of shell, and semiprecious stones were traded northward in return for manufactured articles and probably agricultural produce.

Most surprising, evidence that early pharaohs ruled in A-Group Nubia was discovered by the Oriental Institute at Qustul, almost at the modern Sudanese border. A cemetery of large tombs contained evidence of wealth and representations of the rulers and their victories. Other representations and monuments could then be identified, and in the process, a lost kingdom, called Ta-Seti or Land of the Bow, was discovered. In fact, the cemetery at Qustul leads directly to the first great royal monuments of Egypt in a progression. Qustul in Nubia could well have been the seat of Egypt's founding dynasty.

Figure 1: The decoration of the Qustul Incense Burner, as restored. A sacrificial procession contains the earliest definite image of a pharaoh with his crown and falcon-label. Oriental Institute Nubian Expedition.

http://oi.uchicago.edu/OI/PROJ/NUB/NUBX/NUBX_brochure.html

quote:

---

On the way from El Shalal ( cataracts ) southern Egypt to Halfa ( northern Sudan )boats used to stop in a numbian Island like called en-nabah ( it is gone now after the Dam)where the nubians used to sell the summer fruits to the boats / ships people- They used to wait for their arrivals for days as they had no other income or industry other than the 40th route crossing the desert from Sudan to Egypt on Camels.

---

The camel route you are speaking of goes from Darfur into Asyut. Nubians were well known for their breeds of horses,and even camels. Still no Nubians or Sudanese settled in large numbers mixing with Sa3eedi Egyptians from Luxor-Aswan.

quote:

---

Making me a liar is not very pleasant, I watch the historic documentaries on the BBC regularly. Only very recently they have shown these pigmies from Kenya who as live the same way as they did for many centuries.
This was NOT the first time I saw such a programme

---

No pgymies exist in eastern Africa. Most pgymies exist in Central Africa. What particular people are you reffering to that live in caves? Nobody in modern Africa lives in caves,nor ever lived in caves except maybe during Neolithic times.

quote:

---

The reason why many Northern Sudanese are lighter is because of mixture with Arabs,and not from mixing with Egyptians. During the Middle Ages many Arabs came to Egypt and Sudan,and many of these Arabs fled further south into Sudan.

I doubt very much that Sudanese mixmarried with Arabs- there were NO arabs in Sudan- only Egyptian army officers.

---

True there are not Arabs in modern Sudan,but during the reign of the Umayyad,Abbasid,and Fatimids brought many Arabs into Egypt,and then replaced the Bedouin Arabs with soliders from Iran and Turkey. This is well documented by Arab historians like Ibn Khaldun,al-Maqrizi,and al-Kindi.

For more history of Arabs in Sudan you can read the following book:

The Arabs and the Sudan: from the seventh to the early sixteenth century
by Yusuf Fadl Hassan

ASIN: B0006BQNR2

quote:

---

What do mean middle ages, man? you mean in the 6th century? when the arabs have built the most glorious empire that extended from Somalia up to Southern France?
What middle ages?

---

I am talking about during the Umayyad,Abbasid,and Fatimid caliph.

quote:

---

How fictional your mouth is ( Arabs fled further into Sudan ) ..! Why? Which Arabs are these? and why not stopping in Egypt instead- there is nothing in Sudan, nothing to flee for?

---

The Arab tribes that fled to the Sudan were mostly Bedouin Arabs. These bedouin tribes settled and intermarried with the local Sudanese people. Bedouin Arabs are nomads and settled whever.

If you want more information about the settlement of Bedouin Arabs in the Sudan then read the following book:

The Arabs and the Sudan: from the seventh to the early sixteenth century
by Yusuf Fadl Hassan

ASIN: B0006BQNR2

quote:

---

White slaves in Egypt? How funny..!

---

Yes, white slaves were brought into Egypt during the Islamic era. During all periods you could find white slaves in auction blocks in Cairo[Al-Qahria]

See the following from historian Max Rodenbeck:

At least untill the introduction of plantation slavery in the New World, the Cairo market was unrivaled in the quanity and variety of its human merchandise. Brought by caravan from the Sudan,Arabia,and Syria and Libya amd by ships across the Red Sea and the Mediterranean, thousands of slaves---up to 10,000 a year even in the 1860's changed hands here. Most were destined for domestic servitude in the city itself. Yet,aside from one slave uprisings in the later fifteenth century, when several hundread stable boys revolted ,fled across the river to Giza, and eclected their own mock sultan and court, there is no evidence that the institution of slavery here was ever as intolerbly cruel as in the Americas. Slaves were allowed to own property. it was not unsual for them to accumulate great fortunes; on her death in A.D. 1024 one slave girl of a Fatimid prince left a legacy valued at 400,000 gold dinars. Cairene merchants commonly shipped goods in the care of trusted slaves, and posted them in far-off ports. While children born of concubines were automatically free, masters often liberate their slaves because doing so was considered an act of commendable piety. page 83

Price in the fifteenth century ranged from ten dinars for a serving maid to several thousand for the handsomest swordsmen or shapeliest dancer[which compares sadly with the 30,000 dinars that Sultan al-Nasir Mohammed blew on a magnificent horse in 1320]. Among Mamelukes--boy slaves of good solider stock ---the most prized were firce Tartars[typically 140 ducats a head say Emmanuel Piloti], then Circassians, then Greeks,followed by Albanians,Slavs,and lastly Serbs---a ship at seventy ducats a piece.* Seekers of concubines enjoyed similarly wide choice.

Abyssinian girls were prized for the reputed hotness and smugness of their ''pearl boxes of ruby depth ,'' by one randy Turk's account. Buyers with other tastes could pick from narrow-eyed Mongols to flaxen-haired Caucasians. But caution was advised :dealers dyed blonde hair black because it fetched a better price.

page 83

Cairo : The City Victorious
by MAX RODENBECK
ISBN: 0679767274

posted 02 June 2005 06:52 PM            

Leave her to her stupidity!LOL

posted 02 June 2005 07:00 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Djehuti:
The problem as usual, is that Egyptians like AMR1, Fareed, and Salama are having an identity crises! They know Egypt is in Africa, yet they deny that the original, indigenous inhabitants were of course black! At the same time, even though originally an Arab colony they want to seperate themselves from the other Arabs, thus you have the saying that Egyptians are neither black nor Arab just "Egyptian--full stop"!

It's quite sad, really!

---

posted 02 June 2005 07:04 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by salama:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by multisphinx:
[B]
It is stupid to expect any idiot to say that Egypt is not African ( geographically ) not genetically .
But Africa is a very diverse genetically and culturally , this happens even within the one town- Not in Egypt,

By the way, although half of my blood is European through my mother, I am the only one in my family who is NOT white.
In fact, this was the reason ,I read Egytology at Cairo University (my very Egyptian looks) that I am known for..
Now, you and them, should learn to accept that.

..

---

Wow, there u go, u have european ancestory. I think that should ring a bell for u.

U said "Africa is diverse gentically and culturally," then u said "Not in Egypt", WHY? U MAKE NO SENSE. If Africa as whole is diverse, what makes Egypt differant from rest of Africa, because Egypt to is diverse. You are thinking to hard.

quote:

---

Originally posted by salama:

Let me tell a short incident happened to me just three years ago.
I was in SF, walking in the O'Farrel street, next to the Lacy Shopping centre, sat a woman with her cat, painted her face like ancient emulating Egyptian women ( using kohl, and blusher)

I was really tired that day, walking for sometime looking for a cheap hotel having lost my purse the previous night.

Out of the blues, this woman ran behind me caughting my top. Shocked, I ask her what does she want?

You are An Egyptian..!Are not you?
How did you know? I was not wearing the Neffertiti crown ..

---

Wow some crazy white women gussed u were egyptian. So what!!!!

Look here u are offended if i say MODERN EGYPT is all black (which i never said), and look i and many eygptians would be ofended if u say Egypt is caucasain. So to plz all, we say MODERN EGYPT IS DIVERSE WITH MANY COLORS AND RACES.

AE were in early dynasties which began in upper egypt were Africans that is clear. After invasions and with the expansion of the civilization mixing did occur in late dynasties which gave lighter skin to the delta egyptians. A good exp to show how foriegn infulueced the melting pot is YOU!! u just said u are half european. If you ask others in the delta especially in ALex. and Ciaro they will tell you the same thing.

posted 02 June 2005 07:08 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by salama:
[B][

Perhaps you are the one who is a racist here?

B]

---

Why!!! i am not ASHRAF, ASHRAF IS A TRIBE IN SOMALIA NOT EGYPT. I guss offending would be to strong of word. They would rather find it unfit with their identity, better way of putting it.

posted 02 June 2005 08:02 PM            

quote:

---

Salama says: It is stupid to expect any idiot to say that Egypt is not African (geographically) not genetically...

---

Care to explain how this is so?! Rome is geographically European, but is it not genetically?!

quote:

---

Multisphinx says: You are thinking to hard.

---

Djehuti says: You are not thinking at all!!

I think your mind has gone "full stop!!"

posted 02 June 2005 08:32 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by ausar:
On top of that,relaxx, I am a Luxor-Aswani Egyptian. A arrogant Bohary wants to tell me who my ancestors have mixed with. Nubians really don't like Upper Egyptians all that much enough to want to mix with them.

Before the Aswan Dam was ever created early European exploerers noted how dark-brown the modern day Upper Egyptians were. Many pointed out that the cloest people to the ancient Egyptians were the southern Upper Egyptians,and that Cairene and Alexandrian Egyptians were clearly mixed.

The dark complexion of the Sa3eedi Upper Egyptians was even noted by Arabic historians like Abd al-Latif and al-Maqrizi.

Relaxx, the racism you see in modern Egypt has alot to do with the British. Historically Northern Egyptians have even had slaves from southern Sudan,and this was a big factor. Which is why I think its funny that Northern Egyptians say we mixed with Sudanese when over 150,000 slaves were imported into Cairo. Most of these slaves were domestic workers.

Fellahin in Lower and Upper Egypt were confined to their villages much like military barracks. Only a few served in the military under the Turkish Ottomans.

Most upper class Egyptians have some form of European or Armenian ancestry. Ask most of them and they will tell you this. No way somebody expects me to believe a Bohary Egyptian with blonde hair is a spitting image of an ancient Egyptian.

This is what an ancient Egyptian looks like in modern Egypt:

[This message has been edited by ausar (edited 02 June 2005).]

[This message has been edited by ausar (edited 02 June 2005).]

---

This is a picture of a white woman and a tanned man in the gallery. You call them black???/////?????????

I cal them almost white and defintely there is no pure african that could be that light skin.

posted 02 June 2005 08:51 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by AMR1:
This is a picture of a white woman and a tanned man in the gallery. You call them black???/////?????????

I cal them almost white and defintely there is no pure african that could be that light skin.

---

LMAO
First of all, the woman in the painting is painted yellow, not white, which is somehow symbolic, since there can't be a color difference that great between men and women..

Second, you call the man in the painting "tan"?!! LOL There is no such thing as a tan that dark!

Here are more close up pics of Sennefer:

Do you really call this "tan"?!

AMR, you lost one too many brain cells!!

posted 02 June 2005 11:14 PM            

quote:

---

For Allah sake, man, do you really think that is an Egyptian face?

---

Your blaspheming for the sake of jealousy aside....yes:

posted 03 June 2005 12:40 AM            

These mixed race White wanna be so called Egyptians probably bastard children of Mamelukes just can't get it through there Cro-magnon Neaderthal hybridized peanut brains that it is their Racist Brainwashed idealogies that prevent them from seeing the obvious proof (evidence staked upon evidence) of the TRUTH of a Black origin of Egypt!

"The Colchians, Ethiopians and Egyptians have thick lips,broad nose, woolly hair and they are burnt of skin."
-- Herodotus, 450 BC

This is the definition of Negroid!

posted 03 June 2005 12:49 AM            

And to think, this is after quite a bit of racial mixture.

But the biggest piece of evidence depicting Negroid features, probably defaced by Mamelukes (not Napoleon), is of course the Sphinx.

Explain that profile! Explain all the research that Ausr has posted. Explain the religious connections to other East Africans. And explain why we should listen to Whitewashed racists.

posted 03 June 2005 12:53 AM            

unny that selective figurine you chose to prove (with the bulgy lips )that Egyptians were from Somalia, Nigeria or even Nubians..!

Perhaps you are familiar with other representations of all the Akh-n-Aton's family?

Why did you think it was the only time when Egyptian artists represented their rulers ( the only time ) this way- SOME OF THE TIME.

By the way, Ms .Fletcher is not very well respected by other Egyptologiests, for her unfounded remarks.
I do admire her determination, though.

EGYPT is not black, nor Arab..Full Stop.

posted 03 June 2005 01:23 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by salama:

I, somehow, understand the white racism, but not really sure why BLACKS should be racist toward whites-

unny that selective figurine you chose to prove (with the bulgy lips )that Egyptians were from Somalia, Nigeria or even Nubians..!

Perhaps you are familiar with other representations of all the Akh-n-Aton's family?

Why did you think it was the only time when Egyptian artists represented their rulers ( the only time ) this way- SOME OF THE TIME.

By the way, Ms .Fletcher is not very well respected by other Egyptologiests, for her unfounded remarks.
I do admire her determination, though.

EGYPT is not black, nor Arab..Full Stop.

---

That was only one of the pictures. What about the Sphinx! Also, why was it defaced? It seems that the defacing was done in a calculated manner to hide racial affinities?

Besides, this is a waste of time. You completely ignored Ausr's post of research on Pre-dynastic Egyptians and just spin your wheels saying the same old things.

As for racism towards Whites. Racism is wrong no matter what! Your justification due to some false sense of superiority just sickens me. Your an embarassment to your own kind!

You are right about one thing. Modern day Egypt is not Black. It is an Arab nation! An Arab is a regional classification. There are poor black people living there under a caste system imposed by Eurasians. Perhaps Blacks in Egypt shall rise again and enslave the Eurasian foreigners as they have done many times in Ancient times. Mixed bloods like yourself will make nice slaves (happened in Zanzibar).

As for light skinned women being preferred. Yes this a weakness some black men have (clearly not all since most pictures of Women are actually not Yellow - just the ones selectively choosen by Whitewashed fools). You also have to wonder what is authentic and what isn't! And as you said, what is just artistic symbolishm.

But besides, the Egyptian preferrence for Eurasian women was well known and documented in Hebrew historical accounts on interactions with Egyptians 1000 BCE.

I go to the mall in my neighborhood and I see more Black men with White women than I see Black men with Black women. And that Tan nonsense is the most retarded thing I have heard. Egyptian men in Upper Egypt and their Women are primarily Brown/Reddish as the ancients described them. Plenty of women depicted this way as well.

posted 03 June 2005 01:26 AM            

This is the definition of Negroid!

posted 03 June 2005 01:39 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by osirion:

As for light skinned women being preferred. Yes this a weakness some black men have (clearly not all since most pictures of Women are actually not Yellow - just the ones selectively choosen by Whitewashed fools). You also have to wonder what is authentic and what isn't! And as you said, what is just artistic symbolishm.

---

posted 03 June 2005 01:40 AM            

the population is throughly mixed, you have money or education, they will give you their daughter, you could be as black as Kabila, as long as you are an Egyptian.

This is not India.

In each family you will see some browns to whites.

Egypt has been conformed to one thoroughly mixed population making one racial group.

posted 03 June 2005 02:08 AM            

quote:

---

Salama writes: I, somehow, understand the white racism, but not really sure why BLACKS should be racist toward whites-

---

Your comments grow more insipid with each post.

You are responding to Osirion and assuming he is Black. He is not.

You continue to babble on and repeat your idiot mantra, but are unable to answer elementary questions.

You are making a fool of yourself. Full stop.

posted 03 June 2005 05:04 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by salama:

I, somehow, understand the white racism, but not really sure why BLACKS should be racist toward whites-

unny that selective figurine you chose to prove (with the bulgy lips )that Egyptians were from Somalia, Nigeria or even Nubians..!

Perhaps you are familiar with other representations of all the Akh-n-Aton's family?

Why did you think it was the only time when Egyptian artists represented their rulers ( the only time ) this way- SOME OF THE TIME.

By the way, Ms .Fletcher is not very well respected by other Egyptologiests, for her unfounded remarks.
I do admire her determination, though.

EGYPT is not black, nor Arab..Full Stop.

---

posted 03 June 2005 11:45 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by relaxx:

Osirion is not Black, you even share some semitic ancestries with him, just read the previous threads you will see that many are from Eastern Asia, have European origins, one I think is even persian. Ausar, multisphynx are Egyptians. There are actually very few African Americans and Africans just read the previous threads, otherwise you sound ridiculous when you assume you're talking to Black people.
Relaxx.

---

I do have some Black heritage and I am not concerned if people describe me based on that heritage. I am mostly Jewish though but people do confuse me for Egyptian, but that is primarily based on the modern Egyptian type.

I often refer to myself as a Black Jew.

Jews trace their lineage through their Mothers side (which I believe they learned from Egyptians just like circumcision and monotheism). Which does bring up a point, I am Jewish by heritage not by belief.

As far as the original Egyptians being Black, this is what our Jewish history states quite clearly "The Land of Ham (Ham also means Dark Reddish Brown)". But then my Jewish relatives claim that they left Mesopatamia due to a famine and migrated to Egypt where they traded their skills (arts, architecture, labor, etc) for food. They ultimately became enslaved which resulted in the great monuments you see today. In fact I have seen documents showing that Jews actually were put in charge of Egyptians to help them in agriculture and other aspects of development. But this is rather fanciful.

Egyptian influence on the Jews is much easier to prove and more logical. Most of what the Jews believe comes from a man shrouded in mystery who was supposedly educated as an Egyptian (Moses).

But to the question of Women in Egypt:

The story of Abraham gives great insight into the reputation of Egytians in terms of their desire to acquire Eurasian Women. This clearly means that Eurasian Women were exotic to these Africans. This refutes, along with tons of other evidence, the idea that Egyptians were similar in appearance to Eurasians.

posted 03 June 2005 12:13 PM            

And Egypt, Kush [Ethiopia/Sudan] and all parts of Africa and West Asia where Black people were known to dwell were referred to as the lands of Ham.

This is very telling as the semitic Ham is akin to the Kemetic [Egyptian} Kem - black, burnt black. In the Hebrew mythic-ethnology, what is black is "Ham and his descendants".

The term is therefore clearly 'ethnic' and refers to dark skinned peoples. Peoples even darker in complexion than the ancient Hebrew.

And this is reiterrated again and again in the Bible.

posted 03 June 2005 02:00 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by osirion:
I do have some Black heritage and I am not concerned if people describe me based on that heritage. I am mostly Jewish though but people do confuse me for Egyptian, but that is primarily based on the modern Egyptian type.

I often refer to myself as a Black Jew.

Jews trace their lineage through their Mothers side (which I believe they learned from Egyptians just like circumcision and monotheism). Which does bring up a point, I am Jewish by heritage not by belief.

As far as the original Egyptians being Black, this is what our Jewish history states quite clearly "The Land of Ham (Ham also means Dark Reddish Brown)". But then my Jewish relatives claim that they left Mesopatamia due to a famine and migrated to Egypt where they traded their skills (arts, architecture, labor, etc) for food. They ultimately became enslaved which resulted in the great monuments you see today. In fact I have seen documents showing that Jews actually were put in charge of Egyptians to help them in agriculture and other aspects of development. But this is rather fanciful.

Egyptian influence on the Jews is much easier to prove and more logical. Most of what the Jews believe comes from a man shrouded in mystery who was supposedly educated as an Egyptian (Moses).

But to the question of Women in Egypt:

The story of Abraham gives great insight into the reputation of Egytians in terms of their desire to acquire Eurasian Women. This clearly means that Eurasian Women were exotic to these Africans. This refutes, along with tons of other evidence, the idea that Egyptians were similar in appearance to Eurasians.

---

posted 03 June 2005 02:05 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by osirion:

That was only one of the pictures. What about the Sphinx! Also, why was it defaced? It seems that the defacing was done in a calculated manner to hide racial affinities?

Besides, this is a waste of time. You completely ignored Ausr's post of research on Pre-dynastic Egyptians and just spin your wheels saying the same old things.

As for racism towards Whites. Racism is wrong no matter what! Your justification due to some false sense of superiority just sickens me. Your an embarassment to your own kind!

You are right about one thing. Modern day Egypt is not Black. It is an Arab nation! An Arab is a regional classification. There are poor black people living there under a caste system imposed by Eurasians. Perhaps Blacks in Egypt shall rise again and enslave the Eurasian foreigners as they have done many times in Ancient times. Mixed bloods like yourself will make nice slaves (happened in Zanzibar).

As for light skinned women being preferred. Yes this a weakness some black men have (clearly not all since most pictures of Women are actually not Yellow - just the ones selectively choosen by Whitewashed fools). You also have to wonder what is authentic and what isn't! And as you said, what is just artistic symbolishm.

But besides, the Egyptian preferrence for Eurasian women was well known and documented in Hebrew historical accounts on interactions with Egyptians 1000 BCE.

I go to the mall in my neighborhood and I see more Black men with White women than I see Black men with Black women. And that Tan nonsense is the most retarded thing I have heard. Egyptian men in Upper Egypt and their Women are primarily Brown/Reddish as the ancients described them. Plenty of women depicted this way as well.

---

Come on now, modern egypt is a diverse African Nation, the prime language is Arabic, does not make the ppl arab, they speak it. Its ruled by an elite class(ppl whom have foriegn descent of turkish, syrian, persian,greek, etc...)Really before anyone should give a lable to egypt, they must travel around the country and see the diversity.

posted 03 June 2005 02:15 PM            

Not only Egypt is diverse , it is throughly mixed like a stack of card well mixed, yes some are almost white and some are almost black, but all related.

posted 03 June 2005 02:51 PM            

quote:

---

No one is pure nothing in Egypt

---

No one is pure nothing in Italy, Greece, France, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Iraq, Nigeria, South Africa Palestine/Isreal or virtually anywhere else.

Racial purity does not exist, and is of no relevance to the fact that Km.t was an African civilisation, culturally and ethnically.

Modern Arab royalty - Bandar.

The oxymoron of "Racial purity" has no bearing on Bandar being an Arab, nor does it have any bearing on the AE being Black Africans.

Ancient Kemetic Royalty.