posted 03 June 2005 03:02 PM            

quote:

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A jew would love to discredit his most dangerous enemy in the area. I should have guessed it earlier.

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posted 03 June 2005 03:14 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by AMR1:
MULTISPHINX

Not only Egypt is diverse , it is throughly mixed like a stack of card well mixed, yes some are almost white and some are almost black, but all related.

No one is pure nothing in Egypt, and it is a conformed racial nation and definitel;y there is no cast system, but a jew will not saay nothing good about todays arabized Egyptians who he knows well they are not arabs but teh same people who were always and will alwayus be dangerous to Israel in war or peace.

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Egyptians use to be our allies. They helped to establish Israel amongst our Amalikite foes. The Arabs were once the enemies of both Egypt and Israel.

As I have stated before, Egypt is much like Mexico. There are pure Egyptians in Egypt but roughly on 3% survive unmixed. There are PURE Europeans in Egypt, roughly around 16%. There are also PURE Arabs as well. The most poorest of Egyptians are interestingly the most likely to be PURE representatives of Egypt. This is TRUE in Mexico as well, where your Aztec Indians can be found but only in the poorest of situations (almost none are found amongst the elite).

It is really simple, go to Upper Egypt and find a peasant and you will know what an Egyptian is.

As for a caste system. This is not really a debatable question. Simply look at the elite class in Egypt (descendants of Mamelukes, Turks, Armenians, Greeks, Arabs, etc). The same is true in Mexico.

No, there are pure Egyptians but they are just darker than what the mixed Mullatto type want to admit to, due to a caste system handed down from Assyrians, Persians, Greeks, Romans, Mameluke, Turks, French, and now Arabs, that have given you mixed bloods fanciful ideas of a light skinned Egyptian past.

Egyptian, I am not sure which of your masters have been worse.

posted 03 June 2005 03:40 PM            

Egyptians were always a mix of semetic races and negroid people, this is what the AE were.

So as partialy semetic myelf, I can not be a anti Semetic and I don't hate jews , they are just like any humans we are their enemies whether we both like it or not. So I can not expect anything good from them and I as they are sucpicious of each other and will bnever give credit to each other in anything.

posted 03 June 2005 03:54 PM            

quote:

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NEVER WAS EGYPT AN ALLY OF ISRAEL IN HISTORY EVEN BEFORE ARABS EXISTED.

Egyptians were always a mix of semetic races and negroid people, this is what the AE were.

So as partialy semetic myelf, I can not be a anti Semetic and I don't hate jews , they are just like any humans we are their enemies whether we both like it or not. So I can not expect anything good from them and I as they are sucpicious of each other and will bnever give credit to each other in anything.

Regards,

---

Not that I put much emphasis on the Torah or Quran as historical documents but some of the dyansties in Egypt did support Israel. Often times the kingdom of Solomon did look into Egypt with military support. During the Assyrian invasion the 25th dyansty saved Jerusalem from near extinction.

Funny thing is that before 1948 Jews were widespread across Egypt. You had Jews in Cairo,Alexandria,and the Delta. Whole villages in the Delta in Egypt used to be Jewish in origin. Nobody had a problem with Christians,Jews,and Muslims living side by side in Egypt.

Jews been fleeing into Egypt since the time of Nebcanezzar. Then years later during the Greco-Roman rule Jews migrated and settled into parts of Egypt from the Delta down to Aswan. Infact, during the Persian occupation of Egypt many Jewish mercenaries were settled around Syene[modern day Aswan].

Alot of the early Christian converts in Alexandria and Cairo were Jews. As were many Christian converts living around Karanis,Faiyum and other regions in Egypt.

Relations between the indigenous Egyptians during the Greco-Roman period and even Medieval Islamic period in Egypt were not all that positive. Egyptians like Manetho associated Jews with Set. Also he reffered to them as leaporous. Many riots broke out between Jews and Egyptians during the Ptolemies.

posted 03 June 2005 04:03 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by multisphinx:
Come on now, modern egypt is a diverse African Nation, the prime language is Arabic, does not make the ppl arab, they speak it. Its ruled by an elite class(ppl whom have foriegn descent of turkish, syrian, persian,greek, etc...)Really before anyone should give a lable to egypt, they must travel around the country and see the diversity.

Ask Kemu he recently visited egypt.

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Arabs are not a Race but a Regional description of culture. It is also not a very good description of their culture either. Today, calling someone Arab is like calling someone American - shouldn't imply race but it does. However, Arabs like Jews did at one time mean lineage that can be traced back to the nomadic tribes of the Arabian peninsula. The term is used in such a general term today that it has little real meaning.

posted 03 June 2005 05:16 PM            

quote:

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Egyptians were always a mix of semetic races and negroid people, this is what the AE were.

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Nope. Semite is a language and not a race, and Ethiopia has more semitic languages than any other nation. Ironically then, the best example of an African nation that is also semitic is Ethiopia. And modern Ethiopians, like Ancient Egyptians, are predominently Black.

However - the AE were not 'semites' any more than they were 'bantu' or 'berber'.

So AMR1 simply makes a series of unfounded statements which expose his lack of knowledge on this subject.

posted 03 June 2005 06:41 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by rasol:
Nope. Semite is a language and not a race, and Ethiopia has more semitic languages than any other nation. Ironically then, the best example of an African nation that is also semitic is Ethiopia. And modern Ethiopians, like Ancient Egyptians, are predominently Black.

However - the AE were not 'semites' any more than they were 'bantu' or 'berber'.

So AMR1 simply makes a series of unfounded statements which expose his lack of knowledge on this subject.

---

posted 03 June 2005 08:14 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by AMR1:
NEVER WAS EGYPT AN ALLY OF ISRAEL IN HISTORY EVEN BEFORE ARABS EXISTED.

Egyptians were always a mix of semetic races and negroid people, this is what the AE were.

So as partialy semetic myelf, I can not be a anti Semetic and I don't hate jews , they are just like any humans we are their enemies whether we both like it or not. So I can not expect anything good from them and I as they are sucpicious of each other and will bnever give credit to each other in anything.

Regards,

---

You mentioned earlier that you were Arab, well did you know that many Arabs were Jews before becoming muslim:yes in Yemen...The native land of Arabs was full of Jews..Now that you know history you should welcome and great your brothers: the Jews...And I respect them as human beings. Jews didn't harm Africans, actually they were enslaved by Africans. However I'm not really sure about the Arab legacy in Africa based on some threads.
Relaxx

[This message has been edited by relaxx (edited 03 June 2005).]

posted 03 June 2005 11:38 PM            

Relaxx, Amr is from Aswan governate in Egypt. Upper Egypt is called Saeed[south] and it divided into almost Saeed[Middle Egypt] past Cairo untill Sohag,and Deep Saeed[from Sohag to Aswan].

Within Upper Egypt you have various groups that claim different lineages. You have the Fellahin[these are the pre-Islamic Egyptian inhabitants],bedouin Arabs[these groups came into Egypt during the Middle Ages],ashraf[people who claim direct desendants of Mohammed]

In Edfu and Aswan governate you have groups like the Ja'afra and Ababda tribes. Ja'afra is the tribe that Amr belongs to and they claim to be Arabs. Either the Ja'afra are Arab tribes or Northern African tribes that moved into the Nile Valley. Ababda are arabized Bejawi[Beja nomads]

In Quena governate further north you have the Hawwara bedouins. Theses bedouin groups were banished into Upper Egypt by the Mamelukes and have totally wrecked havoc on the indigenous fellahin. Causing major family wars. Hawwara exist in areas like Asyut and Sohag also.

Most of the leading officals from Upper Egypt always come from the Arab and Ashraf tribes but not from the fellahin groups.

Alot of the Arabic genealogies are fabricated but many of those who claim Arabic ancestry probably have some Arabic ancestry.

posted 03 June 2005 11:52 PM            

You really are Egyptian then? I had my doubts but I am starting to believe you.

Got any pics of your homeland?

posted 03 June 2005 11:58 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by osirion:
Ausar,

You really are Egyptian then? I had my doubts but I am starting to believe you.

---

posted 04 June 2005 03:14 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Super car:
Why did you harbor these doubts? I am assuming that this had to do with your not following archived threads, right?

---

posted 04 June 2005 03:57 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by ausar:

Relaxx, Amr is from Aswan governate in Egypt. Upper Egypt is called Saeed[south] and it divided into almost Saeed[Middle Egypt] past Cairo untill Sohag,and Deep Saeed[from Sohag to Aswan].

Within Upper Egypt you have various groups that claim different lineages. You have the Fellahin[these are the pre-Islamic Egyptian inhabitants],bedouin Arabs[these groups came into Egypt during the Middle Ages],ashraf[people who claim direct desendants of Mohammed]

In Edfu and Aswan governate you have groups like the Ja'afra and Ababda tribes. Ja'afra is the tribe that Amr belongs to and they claim to be Arabs. Either the Ja'afra are Arab tribes or Northern African tribes that moved into the Nile Valley. Ababda are arabized Bejawi[Beja nomads]

---

Discussing race and identity with friends from Sudan and how true is our arabism, I hold Sudanese citizenship also. I came to the conclusion even if it is true that our paternal great grandparents were Arabs, we have mixed extensively with Nubians and Upper Egyptians. So claiming to be Arabs and all what we base on it is false.

There is no pure race in the Nile VALLEY FROM ALEXANDRIA TO KOSTI-Central Sudan. The people who live in this region have both the blood of the ancients and migrants. Some more than others but no one has pure blood of anything any more. And no where did those ancients go, as some claim that AE and Nubians left their land.

So the best description to describe Egyptians, North Sudanese and in fact all the countries of the Arab league besides the Arabian gulf countries, as ARABIZED, NOT Arabs.

In fact the Arab league should change its name to the league of arab speaking countries. Because the Arab league should not be more than 6 countries this is the countries of the arab gulf council.

Regards,

posted 04 June 2005 04:04 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by osirion:

Don't start picking on the Jews! We contributed alot to Egyptian civilization. Just like we contributed alot to European civilization. In both situations we got the raw end of the deal. Both in Europe and in Africa we were betrayed, our kindness repayed with genocide.

---

When the jews entered Egypt, Egypt had a 3500 year civilization. When the Jews entered Egypt, Egypt was unified by King Mena 1500 years before that

So where is your contribution to its civilization.

Israelites were mere slaves in Egypt. They have not contributed to it culturally or politically or socially. The israelites unlike others who came to Egypt refused to be absorbed by the Egyptians and therefore enslaved.

posted 04 June 2005 09:22 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by AMR1:
When the jews entered Egypt, Egypt had a 3500 year civilization. When the Jews entered Egypt, Egypt was unified by King Mena 1500 years before that

So where is your contribution to its civilization.

Israelites were mere slaves in Egypt. They have not contributed to it culturally or politically or socially. The israelites unlike others who came to Egypt refused to be absorbed by the Egyptians and therefore enslaved.

---

Rasol, Ausar, Super car and others, isn't there some proof or theory that Jews started as a sub-culture or heretic type religion in Egypt. They were never enslaved but left for the right of religious freedom??????

posted 04 June 2005 10:55 AM            

quote:

---

Discussing race and identity with friends from Sudan and how true is our arabism, I hold Sudanese citizenship also. I came to the conclusion even if it is true that our paternal great grandparents were Arabs, we have mixed extensively with Nubians and Upper Egyptians. So claiming to be Arabs and all what we base on it is false.

There is no pure race in the Nile VALLEY FROM ALEXANDRIA TO KOSTI-Central Sudan. The people who live in this region have both the blood of the ancients and migrants. Some more than others but no one has pure blood of anything any more. And no where did those ancients go, as some claim that AE and Nubians left their land.

So the best description to describe Egyptians, North Sudanese and in fact all the countries of the Arab league besides the Arabian gulf countries, as ARABIZED, NOT Arabs.

In fact the Arab league should change its name to the league of arab speaking countries. Because the Arab league should not be more than 6 countries this is the countries of the arab gulf council.

Regards,

---

Well, its like this Amr. You obviously don't much history about the Nile Valley during the Middle Ages. Most peole in the cities like Alexandria and Cairo mixed with outsiders that were usually Eur-asian types. People like Kurds,Armenians,Syrians,Greeks etc.

However, in later times Arab tribes were dumped into parts of Egypt that were the most rebellious. Meaning in the Delta and into parts of Middle to Upper Egypt. This is who the caliph in Egypt Arabized the rural Egyptian to stop them fro rebelling. Of course it did not work and the Arabs just lived off the fellahin and used them as slaves.

People who claim Arab ancestry in Middle Egypt probably are Arab in origin. I know that Nasser's village was called Beni Mor after his Hejazi Arab roots.

The mark between Arab and Fellah and Ashraf in Middle Egypt is still very much prevelant. Fellahin have never claimed they were Arabs,but to be pre-Islamic inhabitants. Know with the inception of Egyptology all people who claimed to have been Arabs want to know claim they are related to the pre-Islamic Egyptians.

I would agree that nobody is completely pure in the Nile Valley,but the Upper Egyptian fellahin definately are the cloest thing to the ancient Egyptians. They still pratice very ancient customs much like their pharaonic forefathers.

Nubians only intermarry within their own groups. You will never see a Nubian and Saidi intermarry no matter how close the two groups live.

Most of the time you can tell a Saidi from a bedouin Arab by their facial features. Bedouin Arabs have sharper features than a Upper Egyptian,and are usually taller. Upper Egyptian Fellahin are very short people. Not even males get taller than 5'6 which is about the average height of an ancient Egyptian.

Some of the people who do blacksmith jobs in Upper Egypt actually desend from gypsies. Yes, in parts of Middle Egypt there are also Gypsies that do dances and blacksmithing. Not many Egyptians know about these people.

posted 04 June 2005 10:57 AM            

The Hebrews were not slaves in Egypt as we have come to understand slavery. Slavery or servitude has always been practiced within the African construct, BUT not as the European practiced it.

There is no word for slave in the hieroglyphic language of Egypt. To dispel any historical inaccuracies, the Hebrew did not build the Pyramids! That feat was accomplished thousands of years earlier.

- http://www.essaysbyekowa.com/hebrew__in_egypt.htm

Definition of terms is also helful: Semite is a language family, which may have originated in East Africa and among Black Africans.

Hebrew finds it's possible earliest reference in middle Kingdom Kemet and refers to Asiatics who settled in the delta in 'possible' association with the Hyksos invasion (?)

Jew is common term and most often associated with practise of Judaic faith, which finds much of its roots in Kemet and the story of Moses, which also means it is rooted in Kemetic culture, of course.

posted 04 June 2005 12:30 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Keins:
...isn't there some proof or theory that Jews started as a sub-culture or heretic type religion in Egypt. They were never enslaved but left for the right of religious freedom??????

---

A somewhat loaded question, but I'll try to make it as brief as possible...

Well, Jews as they are known today, didn't exactly exist as such in Kemet. People always use Biblical references, as Jewish history, which in itself poses problems, in terms of available evidence, and contradictions within the Bible. It is sensitive, because as you know by now, when it comes to religion, people descend into subjectivity. People have gone from all claims such as Hyksos connection to the Jews, for which there really is no proof, other than reference to a word called "Habiru", which in turn, doesn't appear to have any connection with the Hyksos. Others talk of 'expulsion' of Hyksos, as the possible exodus, which if one takes the timeframes from historical records, and compare them with Biblical accounts, poses problems, not to mention lack of concrete evidence. There are claims of Akhenaten being Moses, which again, short of solid evidence, is mere speculation. The Exodus itself is something that has to be accounted for, though the Exodus is something that is reasonable to accept; how it might have occurred is the real issue.

People often look at Ramesses II as the Pharaoh, who oversaw the "Exodus", because of the appearance of the term "Pi-Ramesse" (city) in the Bible, the original name for which, happens to be Avaris. This name it had been rationalized, came to existence during the reign of Ramesses II. Careful anaylsis shows that various portions of the Bible appears to have been written years after the events described. Moreover, the Bible claims that Pharaoh, who supposedly made the Hebrews work on building up the city of Raameses, set those events into motion before the birth of Moses. The Exodus supposedly occurred in Moses 80th year, while Ramesses II only ruled for about 67 years; the math doesn't make sense!
As I have pointed out elsewhere before, the 'earliest' nonbiblical historical reference to the term "Isreal" appears on an Egyptian stele, in honor of Merneptah, who succeeded Ramesses II. Much more can be said about available records, and possible problems of both theories out there, and those of Biblical accounts.

Anyway, I opened a thread some time back, about possible roots of Isrealites and this correlates with Kemet, based on objective analysis, and only a very few posts were forthcoming. As pointed out earlier, this is a subject that ought to be discussed in its own right!

quote:

---

Keins:
p.s. There is no proof/evidence that Jews laid the foundations for Ancient Egypt.

---

I concur with this!

posted 04 June 2005 02:39 PM            

President Sadat
Nubian Admixture

President Hosni Mubarak
Some European Admixture

posted 04 June 2005 09:36 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by ausar:

Well, its like this Amr. You obviously don't much history about the Nile Valley during the Middle Ages. Most peole in the cities like Alexandria and Cairo mixed with outsiders that were usually Eur-asian types. People like Kurds,Armenians,Syrians,Greeks etc.

However, in later times Arab tribes were dumped into parts of Egypt that were the most rebellious. Meaning in the Delta and into parts of Middle to Upper Egypt. This is who the caliph in Egypt Arabized the rural Egyptian to stop them fro rebelling. Of course it did not work and the Arabs just lived off the fellahin and used them as slaves.

People who claim Arab ancestry in Middle Egypt probably are Arab in origin. I know that Nasser's village was called Beni Mor after his Hejazi Arab roots.

The mark between Arab and Fellah and Ashraf in Middle Egypt is still very much prevelant. Fellahin have never claimed they were Arabs,but to be pre-Islamic inhabitants. Know with the inception of Egyptology all people who claimed to have been Arabs want to know claim they are related to the pre-Islamic Egyptians.

I would agree that nobody is completely pure in the Nile Valley,but the Upper Egyptian fellahin definately are the cloest thing to the ancient Egyptians. They still pratice very ancient customs much like their pharaonic forefathers.

Nubians only intermarry within their own groups. You will never see a Nubian and Saidi intermarry no matter how close the two groups live.

Most of the time you can tell a Saidi from a bedouin Arab by their facial features. Bedouin Arabs have sharper features than a Upper Egyptian,and are usually taller. Upper Egyptian Fellahin are very short people. Not even males get taller than 5'6 which is about the average height of an ancient Egyptian.

Some of the people who do blacksmith jobs in Upper Egypt actually desend from gypsies. Yes, in parts of Middle Egypt there are also Gypsies that do dances and blacksmithing. Not many Egyptians know about these people.

---

I know Egypt well. I don't know what is your issues with Egyptians. But I know not one is pure Arab, pure Greek or pure AE.

I myself a mix of Arabs, Nubians and Upper Egyptians, my maternal grandmother is from lower Egypt, I see all Egypt as the same more or less.

No one can claim in Egypt he is purer AE than another. The mixture has been so thorough that besides DNA on each individual no one can claim such a thing.

For your infomation as a person with three main mixtures of people in my blood vein. I think the one that honours me most is the Arab. AE had a great civilization but can not equal what came from Arabia in 610 AD, the Koran.

Also general DNA testing shows that no one besides current Egyptians and some North Sudanese who have the genes of AE.

Whether AE 7000 YEARS were black and started to change to whiter from 5000 years or not it does not matter to me at all. Because Egyptian great achievment started around 5000 years ago, not 7000 years ago, and with almost identical population as is today as Richard Collins historian stated. In fact he mentioned 9500 years ago and by the way he is very bias for Southern Sudanese, and virtually in love with them.

And for the ones who think Southern Sudan are directly connected to Nubians, since we are indirectly all related, read Collins. Any area south of Kosti in Central Sudan has nothing to do with Nubia.
Best Regards,

[This message has been edited by AMR1 (edited 04 June 2005).]

posted 04 June 2005 09:43 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by AMR1:

No one can claim in Egypt he is purer AE than another.

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Thought Writes:

No one is pure anything, anywhere. The point is **PRIMARY ORIGINS** and the issue is ANCIENT Egypt not modern Egypt. The ANCIENT Egyptians were PRIMARILY coextensive with Sub-Saharan Africans.

posted 04 June 2005 10:55 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Thought2:
Thought Writes:

No one is pure anything, anywhere. The point is **PRIMARY ORIGINS** and the issue is ANCIENT Egypt not modern Egypt. The ANCIENT Egyptians were PRIMARILY coextensive with Sub-Saharan Africans.

---

Egypt location in the Near East and looking at its empire's map in glory times, which always contained Palestine and Nubia.

Reflects clearly what were the Ancient Egyptian a mix of Africans and Near Easterners from day one.

AE never entered Chad or Kenya and when went South, they went along the blue Nile River and the Red sea in expeditions/explorations, not conquest. This took them to Ethiopia and Somaila, nothing else. The people of thiopia amd Somalia if painted lighter skin are very similair to Egyptians current and ancient.

This thread is talking about Nerefetiti in modern comparsions, not simply history. That is why modern Egypt was brought up.

Regards,

posted 04 June 2005 11:04 PM            

quote:

---

Reflects clearly what were the Ancient Egyptian a mix of Africans and Near Easterners from day one.

---

It's interesting how in one thread, AMR1 talks about rejecting modern science as "western", yet his discourse is filled with western bias concepts like the "near east".

Concepts which meant nothing to the Kemetu [the Ancient Egyptians] and have no relevance to their identity.

When we ask ARM1 or Salama questions about Ancient Egypt, they never answer.

ARM1, what does Ta Khent mean? Who are the Khentu? How would this relate to the "near east"?

posted 04 June 2005 11:10 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by AMR1:

Egypt location in the Near East...

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Thought Writes:

AMR1, the "Near East" is a modern political construct and has no bearing on the biological relationships of the ANCIENT Egyptians. Egypt was essentially depopulated after the last glacial maximum. With the onset of the holocene period populations began to move up the Nile from Sub-Saharan Africa and these people were primarily responsable for the peopling of the Egyptian Nile. The people of the "Near East" or "Middle East" as it is known have a different genetic, linguistic and cultural trajectory.

quote:

---

Originally posted by AMR1:

Reflects clearly what were the Ancient Egyptian a mix of Africans and Near Easterners from day one.

---

Thought Writes:

Most people in the Old World (Africa and Eurasia) have multiple origins. However Europeans have PRIMARY origins in Europe. Asians have PRIMARY origins in Asia. And Africans, such as the Ancient Egyptians, have PRIMARY origins in Africa. This fact is supported by genetics, skeletal analysis, archaeology and linguistics.

quote:

---

Originally posted by AMR1:

AE never entered Chad or Kenya

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Thought Writes:

Such may (or may not) be the case, but the point is that the areas to the south such as Chad and Kenya served as the launch pad for humans moving into Egypt in the last 10,000 years. "Middle Eastern" people have a different history in the main.

quote:

---

Originally posted by AMR1:

The people of thiopia amd Somalia if painted lighter skin are very similair to Egyptians current and ancient.

---

Thought Writes:

Light skin or dark skin have no absolute bearing on the origins of Ancient Egyptian people. This history is traced through the blood/genes. The genes of the Ancient Egyptians trace their roots back to West, Central and East Africa PRIMARILY.

posted 04 June 2005 11:12 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by rasol:
It's interesting how in one thread, AMR1 talks about rejecting modern science as "western", yet his discourse is filled with western bias concepts like the "near east".

Concepts which meant nothing to the Kemetu [the Ancient Egyptians] and have no relevance to their identity.

When we ask ARM1 or Salama questions about Ancient Egypt, they never answer.

ARM1, what does Ta Khent mean? Who are the Khentu? How would this relate to the "near east"?

---

Near East ME WHATEVER, THE FACT IS AE always went and took over PALESTINE FOR SOME REASON Before even the existence of Abraham and before taking over any other land.

If they were related to Kenya or congo or Chad, and not the near east won't they be the areas they invade first before taking land they have nothing to do with.

Why the obssession over Palestine and Nubia 5000 years ago. Palestine was named palestine about 3000 years ago.

posted 04 June 2005 11:13 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by rasol:

When we ask ARM1 or Salama questions about Ancient Egypt, they never answer.

---

Thought Writes:

Perhaps that is because they simply lack knowledge about this African culture.

posted 04 June 2005 11:20 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by AMR1:

Near East ME WHATEVER, THE FACT IS AE always went and took over PALESTINE FOR SOME REASON Before even the existence of Abraham and before taking over any other land.

If they were related to Kenya or congo or Chad, and not the near east won't they be the areas they invade first before taking land they have nothing to do with.

Why the obssession over Palestine and Nubia 5000 years ago. Palestine was named palestine about 3000 years ago.

Regards,

---

Using your logic, one would say that Europeans ought to have only invaded European regions, in order to prove that they are Europeans. Persians invaded Egypt, at one point; would this now mean that they aren't Asians?

posted 04 June 2005 11:21 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by AMR1:

Near East ME WHATEVER, THE FACT IS AE always went and took over PALESTINE FOR SOME REASON

---

Thought Writes:

Of course they did. In fact, as early as the late pre-dynastic the Ancient Egyptians had establised colonies within the southern Levant. The AE kings probably took wives from among their Eurasian subjects. But Egypt as a culture and the Egyptians as an ethnicity was allready well defined by this point and the few servents or wives brought into Africa at this time on a small-scale merged into the pre-existing African context.

quote:

---

Originally posted by AMR1:

If they were related to Kenya or congo or Chad, and not the near east won't they be the areas they invade first before taking land they have nothing to do with.

---

Thought Writes:

Your joking right? Your lack of logic makes me pity you. The AE colonized Palestine to gain access to economic markets.

posted 04 June 2005 11:28 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Thought2:
Thought Writes:

Your joking right? Your lack of logic makes me pity you. The AE colonized Palestine to gain access to economic markets.

---

I'm still shaking my head at the way he rejects biology as western, but then babbles on about the 'near east', a eurocentric construct meaning near to and east of...Europe.

posted 04 June 2005 11:32 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Thought2:
Thought Writes:

Perhaps that is because they simply lack knowledge about this African culture.

---

Yes, clearly. But this is what is most interesting: THE LACK OF GENUINE INTEREST IN LEARNING ANYTHING ABOUT ANCIENT EGYPT.

posted 04 June 2005 11:37 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by COBRA:
President Nasser
ARAB

President Sadat
Nubian Admixture

President Hosni Mubarak
Some European Admixture

[This message has been edited by COBRA (edited 04 June 2005).]

---

You can always tell which ones aren't Egyptian. If they look like Jews then they are Eurasian or some mixture. Sadat is the only one that looks authentic.

posted 05 June 2005 12:13 AM            

The three have AE blood in them while others living in Kenya, or Senegal or African american in the USA don't.

AE were cousins to other Africans that is true, I think they were also cousins of Asian tribes, let us assume my school is wrong. Still their decendants is those above after THE AE married to the people you hate so much Arabs and Europeans.

And this make me so happy that you are not happy that the decendants of AE have become BASICALLY white after so much intermarrying with non Africans.

I am darker than Sadat but I hate nothing more than the afro Centrics. IN REGARD TO THE EURO centrics they are irrelvant today, their lies has been exposed as yours going to be next.

I know the history of Egypt and its people more than you do. Most Muslim Egypt do care more in its Islamic heritage than its ancestors's history, that I agree with you upon.

Regards,

posted 05 June 2005 12:29 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by AMR1:

The three have AE blood in them while others living in Kenya, or Senegal or African american in the USA don't.

---

Thought Writes:

AMR1, in terms of GENETICS (blood is a common phrase used in reference to genetics) most humans around the world probably have some ancestry that can be traced back to dynastic Egypt by now.

quote:

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Originally posted by AMR1:

AE were cousins to other Africans that is true, I think they were also cousins of Asian tribes...

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Thought Writes:

Of course they were. In fact we have demonstrated on this forum time and again that the Sub-Saharan derived genetic lineage PN2 spread out of Africa and around the circum-Mediterranean basin during the early Holocene. But this issue is that the Ancient Egyptains PRIMARY origins lie in Africa in the regions south of Egypt.

posted 05 June 2005 12:40 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by AMR1:

Already researchers have found direct decendants of the people who lived in Egypt 5000 years ago are not to be found in West Africa or any other location but Egypt and parts of North Sudan.

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Thought Writes:

Where can we find the peer-reviewed study that supports the above contention?

posted 05 June 2005 07:52 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by AMR1:
I have read it in a web that has information from the library of congrss.

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well that not enogh, post it on the thread.

I think your runing away. lol

posted 05 June 2005 10:27 AM            

Amr, you should always cite yur reference: http://workmall.com/wfb2001/sudan/sudan_history_early_history.html

Even this website got it from the Library of COngress for Sudan.

Robert O. Collins is a historian and not a physical or biological anthropologist.

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cobra

Nest time I want from you solid evidence to validate the B.S. theories you are writing here.

posted 05 June 2005 11:27 AM            

Already researchers have found direct decendants of the people who lived in Egypt 5000 years ago are not to be found in West Africa or any other location but Egypt and parts of North Sudan

These researchers would be, whom?

I can find examples of their research. where?

posted 05 June 2005 11:34 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by rasol:
One Arm: What part of your reference supports this statement:

Already researchers have found direct decendants of the people who lived in Egypt 5000 years ago are not to be found in West Africa or any other location but Egypt and parts of North Sudan

These researchers would be, whom?

I can find examples of their research. where?

Sorry, but your 'source' appears to provide no support for your claims.

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Well amr that looks like not enogh, post proper support for your claim on the thread.

posted 05 June 2005 11:37 AM            

quote:

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Already researchers have found direct decendants of the people who lived in Egypt 5000 years ago are not to be found in West Africa or any other location but Egypt and parts of North Sudan

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While we wait for you to provide proof of your utterly unsubstantiated remarks.

Here is direct proof of the EXACT OPPOSITE:

The authors (p. 173) show a surprizing degree of genetic similarity between the [West African] Tuareg and the [East African] Beja, The genetic similarity is surprizing given a relatively large geographic distance.

They hypothesize a common origin, perhaps 5000 years ago. review of
Cavalli-Sforza, L. L., Menozzi, P., & Piazza, A. The History and Geography of Human Genes, by Ed Miller

The Beja of course, are descendant of the Medijay of Ancient Km.t who live today in Egypt and Sudan.

posted 05 June 2005 11:42 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by rasol:
While we wait for you to provide proof of your utterly unsubstantiated remarks.

Here is direct proof of the EXACT OPPOSITE:

The authors (p. 173) show a surprizing degree of genetic similarity between the [West African] Tuareg and the [East African] Beja, The genetic similarity is surprizing given a relatively large geographic distance.

They hypothesize a common origin, perhaps 5000 years ago. review of
Cavalli-Sforza, L. L., Menozzi, P., & Piazza, A. The History and Geography of Human Genes, by Ed Miller

The Beja of course, are descendant of the Medijay of Ancient Km.t who live today in Egypt and Sudan.

You have proof to the contrary?

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Of course they have similarities. Because many Westy Afriocans settled in North Sudan in their way from Haj and their way to Haj.

But no one from north Sudan or Egypt went westward.

I am personally have two grandmothers in my ancestry who are from West Africa and their tribes settled in Sudan.

posted 05 June 2005 12:01 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by rasol:
While we wait for you to provide proof of your utterly unsubstantiated remarks.

Here is direct proof of the EXACT OPPOSITE:

The authors (p. 173) show a surprizing degree of genetic similarity between the [West African] Tuareg and the [East African] Beja, The genetic similarity is surprizing given a relatively large geographic distance.

They hypothesize a common origin, perhaps 5000 years ago. review of
Cavalli-Sforza, L. L., Menozzi, P., & Piazza, A. The History and Geography of Human Genes, by Ed Miller

The Beja of course, are descendant of the Medijay of Ancient Km.t who live today in Egypt and Sudan.

You have proof to the contrary?

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quote:

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Of course they have similarities. Because many Westy Afriocans settled in North Sudan in their way from Haj and their way to Haj.

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Reread the above citation from the works of population geneticist Cforza until you understand it, because you obviously do not.

quote:

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But no one from north Sudan or Egypt went westward.

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Wrong again.

According to professor Christopher Ehret, [BERBER] probably came from the African coast of the Red Sea. This view appears to be supported by a genetic study[1] (http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/AJHG/journal/issues/v68n4/002582/002582.html) which concludes that their paternal lineage is probably predominantly east African in origin. This is usually taken to imply that the language was introduced from east Africa mainly by males, maybe with some degree of population change, no earlier than 15,000 years ago.

We are still waiting for YOUR evidence to the contrary.

posted 05 June 2005 12:09 PM            

quote:

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Of course they have similarities. Because many Westy Afriocans settled in North Sudan in their way from Haj and their way to Haj.

But no one from north Sudan or Egypt went westward.

I am personally have two grandmothers in my ancestry who are from West Africa and their tribes settled in Sudan.

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The tribes that settled in Sudan are the Fulani[called in Sudan Falata],Hausa,and Mande people.

The ethnic groups he is talking about are the Beja and Tuareg. Beja people are nomadic people who live in the eastern Sudan. Tuaregs are nomads that live from southern Libya to the Sahelian region.

posted 05 June 2005 01:15 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by ausar:
The tribes that settled in Sudan are the Fulani[called in Sudan Falata],Hausa,and Mande people.

The ethnic groups he is talking about are the Beja and Tuareg. Beja people are nomadic people who live in the eastern Sudan. Tuaregs are nomads that live from southern Libya to the Sahelian region.

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No North Sudanese have escaped the West African blood, trust me on this.

Actually the West Africans are the one who Islamized the Sudan, not Egyptians or Arabs.\

Remmeber Nubia made a deal with Arabs in 640 to pay taxes and stay christian. But slowely teh West african in their way to teh Neart East, Islamized the Sudan.

Most North Sudanese hide West african blood, out of shame, because the North Sudanese, arabized Nubians think they are better than every one else in Africa including Egyptians and will not confess what you see lesser race blood lineage.

Regards,

Regards

posted 05 June 2005 01:21 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by AMR1:
No North Sudanese have escaped the West African blood, trust me on this.

Actually the West Africans are the one who Islamized the Sudan, not Egyptians or Arabs.\

Remmeber Nubia made a deal with Arabs in 640 to pay taxes and stay christian. But slowely teh West african in their way to teh Neart East, Islamized the Sudan.

Most North Sudanese hide West african blood, out of shame, because the North Sudanese, arabized Nubians think they are better than every one else in Africa including Egyptians and will not confess what you see lesser race blood lineage.

Regards,

Regards

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No stupid AMR1! They are not talking about Fulani who make Hajj! They are talking about the Tuareg of Northwest Africa who are related to the Beja of Northeast Africa because the Tuareg and Beja share a common ancestor and that the Tuareg originally came from the East but travelled west thousands of years ago before any Arab, Islamic invasions!!!

You cannot read or something?!

posted 05 June 2005 01:24 PM            

quote:

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North Sudanese have escaped the West African blood, trust me on this.

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