Privateering was an age-old practice in the Mediterranean. North African rulers engaged in it increasingly in the late sixteenth and early seventeenth century because it was so lucrative, and because their merchant vessels, formerly a major source of income, were not permitted to enter European ports. Although the methods varied, privateering generally involved private vessels raiding the ships of an enemy in peacetime under the authority of a ruler. Its purposes were to disrupt an opponent's trade and to reap rewards from the captives and cargo.
These Pirates destroyed thousands of French, Spanish, Italian and British ships, and long stretches of coast in Spain and Italy were almost completely abandoned by their inhabitants, discouraging settlement until the 19th century. From the 16th to 19th century, pirates captured an estimated 800,000 to 1.25 million Europeans as slaves, mainly from seaside villages in Italy, Spain, and Portugal, but also from France, Britain, the Netherlands, Ireland and as far away as Iceland and North America.
Privateering was a highly disciplined affair conducted under the command of the rais (captain) of the fleets. Several captains became heros in Algerian lore for their bravery and skill. The captains of the corsairs banded together in a selfregulating taifa (community) to protect and further the corporate interests of their trade. The taifa came to be ethnically mixed, incorporating those captured Europeans who agreed to convert to Islam and supply information useful for future raids. The taifa also gained prestige and political influence because of its role in fighting the infidel and providing the merchants and rulers of Algiers with a major source of income. Algiers became the privateering city-state par excellence, especially between 1560 and 1620. And it was two privateer brothers who were instrumental in extending Ottoman influence in Algeria.
TURKISH OTTOMAN RULE
In 1510, a band of Turkish pirates, lead by Khair ad Din, known to the Europeans as Barbarossa (Redbeard), made Tunis their base, with the permission if Bey Mulay Muhammad. The pirates also gained control over other cities on the North African coast, amongst them Algiers. From there they undertook raids against christian ships and coastal settlements; abducted christians were sold as slaves on the markets of North Africa, or held for ransom. In 1516 Aruj moved his base of operations to Algiers, but was killed in 1518 during his invasion of Tlemcen. Khair ad Din succeeded him as military commander of Algiers. The Ottoman sultan gave him the title of beylerbey (provincial governor) and a contingent of some 2,000 janissaries, well-armed Ottoman soldiers. With the aid of this force, Khair ad Din subdued the coastal region between Constantine and Oran (although the city of Oran remained in Spanish hands until 1791).
Under Khair ad Din's regency, Algiers became the center of Ottoman authority in the Maghrib, from which Tunis, Tripoli, and Tlemcen would be overcome, and Morocco's independence would be threatened. So successful was Khair ad Din at Algiers that he was recalled to Constantinople in 1533 by the sultan, Süleyman I (r. 1520-66), known in Europe as Süleyman the Magnificent, and appointed admiral of the Ottoman fleet.
The next year he mounted a successful seaborne assault on Tunis. Barbarossa ousted Mulay Muhammad's successor, Mulay Hassan, and assumed the title of Bey of Tunis for himself (1534).
The ousted Bey of Tunis, Mulay Hassan, plead to Holy Roman Emperor Charles V. who agreed to equip an expedition against Tunis, not only to restore Mulay Hassan to the throne, but also to curb the piracy undertaken from there. A fleet consistying of 62 galleys and 150 other vessels left Barcelona March 29th. The Imperial & Spanish troops, commanded by Genoese Andrea Doria, supported by the Maltese Knights, landed near Carthago, took Tunis and Goletta. Tunis was taken July 21st 1535. Mulay Hassan was restored, and 20,000 christian slaves liberated. The Spanish garrisoned Tunis and Goletta. Mulay Hassan ruled Tunis as a Spanish vassal, and had to agree to end christian slavery and to introduce religious toleration. The expedition also took Bone and Biserta, both of which were garrisoned by the Spanish. The Portuguese navy participated in the expedition.
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quote:Originally posted by Mike111: lioness you degenerate, is there a point?
Anyway, as you know sundaniya is an African:
Asking an African about history, is like asking a pauper about how to get rich. A virgin about sexual ecstasy etc.
Mike I see what your saying you being only half African. It's the non-African Haplogroup I on your father's side that gives you the authority on historical matters. What would an African like Cheikh Anta Diop know? We have to go to the real experts. I mean what would Africans know about Moors?
quote:Originally posted by Mike111:
Doxie, I remember when all the excitement was that Egyptian Royalty was Y-dna haplogroup "R1" the "White Mans" haplogroup. Now you're claiming haplogroup "I" as the "White Mans" haplogroup. I sense that this is a "Seed Change" in Albino denial tactics, so please tell me where the haplogroup I stuff came from. Btw - most of my alleles are I.
posted
LOL what did people expect from this wacky racist euronut, called the lioness. SMH
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Mike111: ^Lioness, when are you going to figure out that I no longer respond to nonsense?
My last post was a statements and rhetorical questions not requiring a reply from you. When a reply from you is needed I will give the order.
Posts: 42921 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:. . . . since the time when the Mauretanii wrested Aurasium from the Vandals, not a single enemy had until now ever come there or so much as caused the barbarians to be afraid that they would come, but even the populous city of Tamougadis [Timgad], situated against the mountain on the east at the beginning of the plain, was emptied of its population by the Mauretanii and razed to the ground, in order that the enemy should not only not be able to camp there, but should not even have the city as an excuse for coming near the mountains. And the Mauretanii of that place held also the land to the west of Aurasium, a tract both extensive and fertile. And beyond these dwelt other nations of the Mauretanii, who were ruled by Ortaïas, who had come, as was stated above, as an ally of Solomon and the Romans. And I have heard this man say that beyond the country which he ruled there was no habitation of men, but desert land extending to a great distance, and that beyond that there are men, not black-skinned like the Mauretanii, but very white in body and fair-haired.
Accounts of Ancient Mauretania, c. 430 BCE- 550 CE From Herodotus, Strabo, and Procopius of Caesarea
Posts: 574 | From: Guinee | Registered: Jul 2014
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quote:not black-skinned like the Mauretanii, but very white in body and fair-haired.
In the word Mauretanii is the word Maure!! Maure or Moor you are such an idiot. This have been explained to you over at ESR.
quote:The Document
SOFALA
Whereon is a town of the Moors called Sofala, close to which town the King of Portugal has a fort. These Moors established themselves there a long time ago on account of the great trade in gold which they carry on with the Gentiles of the mainland: these speak somewhat of bad Arabic (garabia), and have got a king over them, who is at present subject to the King of Portugal. And the mode of their trade is that they come by sea in small barks which they call zanbucs (sambuk), from the kingdoms of Quiloa, and Mombaza, and Melindi ; and they bring much cotton cloth of many colours, and white and blue, and some of silk; and grey, and red, and yellow beads, which come to the said kingdoms in other larger ships from the great kingdom of Cambay, which merchandise these Moors buy and collect from other Moors who bring them there, and they pay for them in gold by weight, and for a price which satisfies them ; and the said Moors keep them and sell these cloths to the Gentiles of the kingdom of Benamatapa who come there laden with gold, which gold they give in exchange for the before mentioned cloths without weighing, and so much in quantity that these Moors usually gain one hundred for one. They also collect a large quantity of ivory, which is found all round Sofala, which they likewise sell in the great kingdom of Cambay at five or six ducats the hundred weight, and so also some amber, which these Moors of Sofala bring them from the Vciques. They are black men, and men of colour -- some speak Arabic, and the rest make use of the language of the Gentiles of the country. They wrap themselves from the waist downwards with cloths of cotton and silk, and they wear other silk cloths above named, such as cloaks and wraps for the head, and some of them wear hoods of scarlet, and of other coloured woollen stuffs and camelets, and of other silks. And their victuals are millet, and rice, and meat, and fish. . . . The Moors have now recently begun to produce much fine cotton in this country, and they weave it into white stuff because they do not know how to dye it, or because they have not got any colours ; and they take the blue or coloured stuffs of Cambay and unravel them, and again weave the threads with their white thread, and in this manner they make coloured stuffs, by means of which they get much gold. web page
This is coastal east Africa, and when he said "BLACK" he meant it in the strictest sense, for he then went on to described the ppl of Zimbabwe that inland empire thus.
quote:KINGDOM OF BENAMATAPA
On entering within this country of Sofala, there is the kingdom of Benamatapa, which is very large and peopled by Gentiles, whom the Moors call Cafers. These are brown men,, who go bare, but covered from the waist downwards, with coloured stuffs, or skins of wild animals; and the persons most in honour among them wear some of the tails of the skin behind them, which go trailing on the ground for state and show. . . . They carry swords in scabbards of wood bound with gold or other metals, and they wear them on the left hand side as we do, in sashes of coloured stuffs, which they make for this purpose with four or five knots, and their tassels hanging down, like gentlemen; and in their hands azagayes, and others carry bows and arrows: it must be mentioned that the bows are of middle size, and the iron points of the arrows are very large and well wrought. They are men of war, and some of them are merchants: their women go naked as long as they are girls, only covering their middles with cotton cloths, and when they are married and have children, they wear other cloths over their breasts.
posted
Wtf??? I posted that passage specifically to cite the Mauretanii were called black skinned. And tf are you talking about you explained it to me at ESR? I was the one posting in the thread that one of the whackjobs made that used that passage to prove indigenous North Africans weren't black and I used the fools own quote to show they were indeed black. Also in THIS post of mine you quoted I posted a picture of a black skinned Moor(in other words an actual Moor) right above it yet I'm the idiot?? Maybe you should take a reading comprehension course before insulting someone else.
Posts: 574 | From: Guinee | Registered: Jul 2014
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quote:. . . . since the time when the Mauretanii wrested Aurasium from the Vandals, not a single enemy had until now ever come there or so much as caused the barbarians to be afraid that they would come, but even the populous city of Tamougadis [Timgad], situated against the mountain on the east at the beginning of the plain, was emptied of its population by the Mauretanii and razed to the ground, in order that the enemy should not only not be able to camp there, but should not even have the city as an excuse for coming near the mountains. And the Mauretanii of that place held also the land to the west of Aurasium, a tract both extensive and fertile. And beyond these dwelt other nations of the Mauretanii, who were ruled by Ortaïas, who had come, as was stated above, as an ally of Solomon and the Romans. And I have heard this man say that beyond the country which he ruled there was no habitation of men, but desert land extending to a great distance, and that beyond that there are men, not black-skinned like the Mauretanii, but very white in body and fair-haired.
Accounts of Ancient Mauretania, c. 430 BCE- 550 CE From Herodotus, Strabo, and Procopius of Caesarea [/QB]
The above is Procopius, History of the Wars, 7 321-323 trans. H. B. Dewing
the same as above with additional text:
. . . . since the time when the Mauretanii wrested Aurasium from the Vandals, not a single enemy had until now ever come there or so much as caused the barbarians to be afraid that they would come, but even the populous city of Tamougadis [Timgad], situated against the mountain on the east at the beginning of the plain, was emptied of its population by the Mauretanii and razed to the ground, in order that the enemy should not only not be able to camp there, but should not even have the city as an excuse for coming near the mountains. And the Mauretanii of that place held also the land to the west of Aurasium, a tract both extensive and fertile. And beyond these dwelt other nations of the Mauretanii, who were ruled by Ortaïas, who had come, as was stated above, as an ally of Solomon and the Romans. And I have heard this man say that beyond the country which he ruled there was no habitation of men, but desert land extending to a great distance, and that beyond that there are men, not black-skinned like the Mauretanii, but very white in body and fair-haired. So much, then, for these things. And Solomon, after bribing the Moorish allies with great sums of money and earnestly exhorting them, began the ascent of Mt. Aurasium with the whole armyarrayed as for battle, thinking that on that day he would do battle with the enemy and just as he was have the matter out with them according as fortune should wish. Accordingly the soldiers did not even take with them any food, except a little, for themselves and their horses. And after proceeding over very rough ground for about fifty stades, they made a bivouac. And covering a similar distance each day they came on the seventh day to a place where there was an ancient fortress and an ever-flowing stream. The place is called “Shield Mountain” by the Romans in their own tongue.1 Now it was reported to them that the enemy were encamped there, and when they reached this place and encountered no enemy, they made camp and, preparing themselves for battle, remained there; and three days’ time was spent by them in that place. And since the enemy kept altogether out of their way, and their provisions had failed, the thought came to Solomon and to the whole army that there had been some plot against them on the part of the Moors who were their allies; for these Moors were not unacquainted with the conditions of travel on Aurasium, and understood,
dates:
Procopius 500 AD – c. 554 AD
Solomon 970–931 BC (possibly bible mythology)
Vandals in North Africa 429 AD
Islam in North Africa 647 AD ______________
Location:
Aurasium (Latin for The Aurès Mountains, eastern prolongation of the Atlas Mountain System, northeastern Algeria.)
Posts: 42921 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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"Excerpts from A Description of the Coasts of East Africa and Malabar by Duarte Barbosa".
They are black men, and men of colour -- some speak Arabic, and the rest make use of the language of the Gentiles of the country.Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Punos_Rey: Wtf??? I posted that passage specifically to cite the Mauretanii were called black skinned. And tf are you talking about you explained it to me at ESR? I was the one posting in the thread that one of the whackjobs made that used that passage to prove indigenous North Africans weren't black and I used the fools own quote to show they were indeed black. Also in THIS post of mine you quoted I posted a picture of a black skinned Moor(in other words an actual Moor) right above it yet I'm the idiot?? Maybe you should take a reading comprehension course before insulting someone else.
My apologies I did mistake you for the whack job.. ma bad.
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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Modern Moors or Black North Africans playing chess
Moor playing chess with white European
Moors playing chess
THE MOORS BLACK CIVILIZERS OF EUROPE
An Introduction
By Maunfu 9
The so-called “Greek Miracle” was never to have a profound effect on European culture. In fact, the record shows virulent persecution of the major Greek thinkers by their own society for teaching concepts which were entirely foreign to their culture. By the 4th century, the temples and places of learning began to be shut down by the emperors of Byzantium. By the middle ages, Europe had sunk back into barbarism. But from the south – again – would come a new age of enlightenment ushered in by black Africans and black Asians from the Arabian peninsula.
As is the custom, these legendary figures have been whitened by academia and their influence erased. Yet it is clear that the sweeping wave of civilization brought in by these sons of Africa saved Europe from its backwardness and created the scientific and cultural foundation which would result in the European Rennaissance.
Over a period of 700 years, 4 superb Moorish dynasties would rule Spain, the Umayad, the Abbasid, the Almoravid and the Almohade.
Origin and Race of The Moors
The Black scholar Wayne Chandler traces the origin of the people called the Moors to an African people known as the Garamante. This civilization stood along important trading routes in the Sahara and existed contemporaneously with other great African civilizations including Egypt of the pre-Christian era. The Moors must be distinguished from the Berbers who were a mixed race people in North Africa resulting from the intermarriage between caucasian Libyans and indigenous Africans. Black Africans had beem called Maures (‘dark’) by the Greeks in antiquity and no distinction had been made between The Moorish tribes which would later invade Spain and their Black African kin. There was also to be an Arab component to these peoples and in order for this to be put in context, the racial composition of Arabia in antiquity must be understood. Much of the Arabian peninsular had originally been populated by Blacks. The area was a colony of the kingdom of Kush. Southern Arabia, in particular, remained black for a considerable period as the Greeks themselves attest.
With the coming of Islam, interaction between Moors and Arabs increased but research into the manuscripts and documents of medieval Europe emphatically demonstrates that the prevailing image of the Mooor – for the period – concerned was that of the black skinned, woolly haired African. The image occurs repeatedly in such famed works as Las Cantigas de Santa Maria , a 13th century manuscript of Moorish musical works translated by Spain’s King Alfonso X (El Sabio), one of the best known of Europe’s acquirers of Moorish texts. Numerous works such as these leave no doubt as to what race of people the term “Moor” referred to in medieval Europe.
Alfonso set up centres in cities such as Toledo for the express purpose of acquiring and translating these texts. There is no question that it was not until centuries later that the distinctions became blurred and the term Moor began to be used for various other ethnic groups as well.
The Conquest of Spain
The Ummayad Dynasty
By the end of the 7th century AD, the Islamic Jihad had swept through the Arabian peninsular and North Africa. It was the Moorish general Tarik-bin-Ziad who was given the task of spreading Moorish holdings northward into the Iberian peninsular. The catalyst for this action was the request by the Greek governor of Ceuta for help in emancipaton from the tyrany of the visigoth king Roderick who then ruled Spain.
Tarik and his black army swept up into Spain and defeated the Visigoths in successive stages – capturing and consolidating Spanish towns from the south includingToledo and Cordoba.
By 715 AD, the Ummayad dynasty had been established.It would rule Spain for over a century until 850 AD although their racial memory hes been erased, the achievements and monuments of the Moors still endure. The great Mosque at Cordoba, the Mezquita is an architectural marvel and is to this day considered one of the most magnificent buildings of the middle ages.
The Ummayad dynasty was followed by the Abbasid an Arab dynasty which usurped the throne in 750 AD. However, in 756 AD, the African Abdurrahmon led an army of African Moors up into the Iberian Penninsula, overthrew the Abbasid and re-established the Ummayad dynasty.
A description of Cordova gives an idea of the cultural excellence introduced by the Moors into Spain. Excerpted from The Golden Age of the Moor (pg 166) , a historian provides the following analysis:
“Cordova had 471 mosques, and 300 public baths……and the number of houses of the great and noble were 63,000 and 200, 077 houses of the common people. There were ….upwards of 80,000 shops. Water from the mountains was…distributed through every corner and quarter of the city by means of leaden pipes into basins of different shapes, made of the purst gold, the finest silver or plated brass as well into vast lakes, curious tanks, amazing resevoirs and fountains of Grecian marble.” The houses in Cordova were air conditioned in the summer by “ingeniously arranged draughts of fresh air drawn from the garden over beds of flowers, chosen for their perfume, warmed in winter by hot air conveyed through pipes bedded in the walls. Bathrooms supplied hot and cold water and there were tables of gold, set with emweralds rubies and pearls. This list of impressve works appears endless; it includes lampposts that lit their streets at night, to grand palaces, such as the one called Azzahra with its 15,000 doors. Rennaissance men like Zaryab.”
White Slavery
Over time, an ugly development in the history of the Moors began: The initiation and growth of the aquisition of white slaves as a prevalent aspect of its culture. The trade was began by a a Jewish element which began to buy and sell captured Slavs and Germans as laborers and concubines. the polygamous tendencies of the Islamic Black Moors encouraged this development and contributed to the lightening of the complexion of the Moorish element over time. It also contributed to a degeneration of values. The Ummayyad dynasty became ripe foe overthrow and in 1031 Christian forces achieved their defeat and brought the dynasty to a close.
The Almoravid Dynasty
The famous era of the Almoravids begins with The Black Muslim leader Ibn Yasin. Originally brought from Mecca, Yasin’s initial base of operations was in the area of Senegal in West Africa. He embarked upon an ambitious effort to convert all of the surrounding area to Islam through force. Over time, the Almoravids (from “Al-Murabitun”) conquered a vast area of west and northern Africa. In 1076, they overwhelmed and brought to an end the mighty Empire of Ghana itself . In 1086 AD, Yusuf Ibn Tashibin became aware of events in Spain, where Christians had long been persecuting Arabs and Moors. Yusuf invaded Spain to aid in its liberation. He is unequivocably described in the Moorish work Roudh-el Kartos as a black skinned African. Other matters back home in Africa however prompted him to return before the conquest was complete. He left his army to aid the Spaniards in their battle but was later informed that the local Spanish governers had left the Moors to do most of the fighting.
Yusuf in fury, ordered their replacement with Moorish rulers and there followed a splendid era of African rule which would not end until 1142 AD
The Almohade Dynasty
In 1145, the last Moorish dynasty came to power. African accomplishment in the penisular reached its apex. But Christian resolve had strengthened, and as Moorish culture grew more and more passive, Christian forces gained courage and began a campaign which recaptured territories from the blacks over the following centuries. The Almohade dynasty had deep intellectual concerns and encouraged its thinkers and scholars to engage in great debates and expressions of ideas of both theological and secular nature. It is during the reign of this dynasty that the tower of Seville is constructed. And it is during this time that Abu-Al-Walid Mohamed ibn Mohamed ibgn Rashd, known to the West as Averroes established a peerless intellectual body of work in the arts and sciences which is revered to this day. Ummayad savants and scholars initiated another intellectual revolution by ushering in and promoting: Land reforms in Spain. Religious freedom. Support of the arts and sciences. A rennaissance in knowledge as the wisdom of the ancient cultures was relearned through the works of the Greeks, Hebrews, Chinese, Persians.Translating all into Arabic. They were the first to trace the curvilinear path of light through the air.(1100) They achieved advances in chemistry including the invention of gunpopwder. Discoveries in Astronomy and on the nature of the earth. The invention of the Astrolabe and the compass. The medical use of vivisection and dissection.
The Almohade dynasty was to last until 1230 when Christian forces drove the last Moorish elements out of Spain in successive campaigns. But Europe was to benefit imeasurably from the legacy of these Africans for centuries after the expulsion:
Absence of class system, such that any man (regardless of birth stature) could rise to any rank except that of supreme ruler. This was in marked contrast to the Visigothic Christians who were legendry in their cruelty and usery The creation of hospitals with running water and the widespread construction of baths. Christian Europe held this rite of bating in contempt for centuries. Numerous fabulous gardens. Latrines with running water hundreds of years before the rest of Europe. Paved streets and street lights. Numerous bookstores and a highly literate populace. The Moors also took interior decoration to new heights in elaborate building ideas. This compares with the rest of Europe where most structures were barren, artless hulks without the minimum of utilities even for hygiene.
Agriculture
The Moors of Al Andalu (Spain) introduced advanced numerous crops and methods of soil productivity including irrigation, crop rotation and the use of manure. After harvesting, Moorish preservation and drying know-how meant that foods could endure and be edible for several years.
Universities
There were numerous schools and places of learning in Moorish Al-Andalus (Spain).
begining with the Univerity of Cordoba, other great institutions were built in Seville, Valencia, Mallarga and Granada. Like the ancient Greeks under the Egyptians , several of the most prominent European Catholic scholars studied under the African Moors in their institutions in Spain. The Moors translated all great works they could lay their hands on from the ancients into Arabic. This included the knowledge of Egypt, Kush, India, China and the Greece. Western historians point to the Greek component of these documents and attempt to paint the Moors as merely borrowers of Greek intellectual culture. This ignores the fact that Greek knowledge comes directly from Ancient Egypt and that there is convincing evidence that the Moors already possesed similar knowledge of their own from their homelands.
But this was not only limited to higher education. The Moors promoted literacy and the advancement of the general population. Schools were everywhere, many of them free of charge.
Medicine
Again, far in advance of Western Europe, Moorish physicians were specially trained and highly regulated. They practiced surgery and cauterization and understood the importance of cleanliness in the operating environment.
Jose Pimienta Bey notes in Golden Age of the Moor (pg 211):
“Europeans offered no competition with Moorish advances in pathology, aetiology (study of diseases), therapeutics, surgery and pharmacology. Texts were written by Moorish physicians describing surgical technique and instruments that were used; doctors specialized in pediatrics, obstetrics, opthalmology, and in the treatment of hernias and tumors. Imamuddin tells us that Moorish scientists were even importing monkey skeletons from Africa for use in dissection when conditions prevented the use of cadavers.”
For the Andalusan Moor, scholarly endeavor was considered devine. The more one knew of one’s self and one’s World, the more one was sup[posed to know of one’s Creator. The ancient Kemetic creed “Know Thyself” was very much the creed of Andalus……….Rulers such as the Caliph Abd al-Rahman III, spent almost one-third of the state’s income on education. At a time when most Christan monarchs could not even write their own names, the Caliphs of Moorish Spain were often scholars.
The works of a number of Moorish savants were revered, translated and became required texts in the universities which later developed in Europe. These include Generalities on Medicine by Averroes, Solitary Regime by Avempace, Primus Canonis by Avicenna and Al-Tasrif, by Abulcasis, which became the predominant university medical text for Europe’s physicians.
Science
It was the Moorish chemists such as Jabir who discovered nitric, nitro-muriatric and sulphuric acid. They were well versed in the science well before Europe.
Jose Pimienta-Bey notes the proximity of the founding dates of the major European universities to the translations of Moorish works by rulers such as Alfonso X of Spain. These centres of learning relied primarilly on Moorish texts for centuries
The Primary Source for this article is:
The Golden Age of the Moor. Edited by Ivan Van Sertima. Transaction Books, 1992.
Posts: 5374 | From: sepedat/sirius | Registered: Jul 2012
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posted
^for an accurate translation we need the original scripture.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Mike111: All of the above quotes about Mauretanii sound like Albino nonsense.
"Men of Color" - Who in ancient times used those words????
"very white in body and fair-haired" WHO would THAT be????
And who used "Fair Haired" as a descriptor???
Come-on people, try to keep up.
If you actually read the quote the very white in body and fair haired people refers to people who lived in a land BEYOND the Mauretanii. The Mauretanii are described as black skinned.
posted
I like these threads only for the Mike info dumps, reading the title of the thread I almost didn't bother clicking.
Posts: 310 | From: US | Registered: Jun 2015
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posted
I’ve done further research on the matter and it seems that I was wrong… some of the Moors were black, but it was the Syrian Umayyad dynasty that initially commissioned the conquest of the Iberian Peninsula with an army composed mostly of Berbers and Arabs from Yemen and some black fighters from the Sahel. The Moors were just grunts in the initial thrust into the Iberian Peninsula. The Barbary pirates were not black and so CelticWarrioress was wrong when she tried to lay the crimes of the Barbary pirates at our feet. There is no moral equivalence between blacks and whites. Europeans have decimates hundreds of millions of people on the four corners of the earth and have stolen entire continents and so we can’t be morally equated with them. This was my point.
Posts: 1568 | From: Pluto | Registered: Sep 2008
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posted
^Only Africans seem to have this silly, disjointed concept of the Black world, where Blacks never leave Africa.
They're a quarter mile across a narrow strait from Europe on one end, but never cross it.
They're 8.9 miles across a narrow strait from Europe on the other end, but never cross it.
Neanderthal crosses over:
Cro-magnon crosses over:
But the modern Man African (US), could not cross over in all of his 400,000 years of existence (unless of course a White man took him over).
I bring this up because sudaniya is suggesting that because the Caliphate was headquartered in Damascus in was not Black. (And of course would never think to look up why it was in Damascus, or who was in Damascus).
Personally - I want to know when the "Intelligent" African members of the forum are going to take responsibility for speaking up, or even educating the other African members. I find threads like this very distressing.
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
Nobody denies that modern man originated in Africa and colonized every corner of the world tens of thousands of years ago, but you have not presented any evidence suggesting that the Moors commissioned the conquest of the Iberian Peninsula on their own. Provide your answers [with actual evidence] instead of talking nonsense.
PS: I don't believe that Africans couldn't conquer regions outside Africa without the help of others because my people conquered Palestine and Lebanon long before the Moors were sent into Europe by the Umayyad dynasty in the services of the noble message of the Quran.
Posts: 1568 | From: Pluto | Registered: Sep 2008
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quote:Originally posted by sudaniya: I’ve done further research on the matter and it seems that I was wrong… some of the Moors were black, but it was the Syrian Umayyad dynasty that initially commissioned the conquest of the Iberian Peninsula with an army composed mostly of Berbers and Arabs from Yemen and some black fighters from the Sahel. The Moors were just grunts in the initial thrust into the Iberian Peninsula. The Barbary pirates were not black and so CelticWarrioress was wrong when she tried to lay the crimes of the Barbary pirates at our feet. There is no moral equivalence between blacks and whites. Europeans have decimates hundreds of millions of people on the four corners of the earth and have stolen entire continents and so we can’t be morally equated with them. This was my point.
Privateering was an age-old practice in the Mediterranean. North African rulers engaged in it increasingly in the late sixteenth and early seventeenth century because it was so lucrative, and because their merchant vessels, formerly a major source of income, were not permitted to enter European ports. Although the methods varied, privateering generally involved private vessels raiding the ships of an enemy in peacetime under the authority of a ruler. Its purposes were to disrupt an opponent's trade and to reap rewards from the captives and cargo.
These Pirates destroyed thousands of French, Spanish, Italian and British ships, and long stretches of coast in Spain and Italy were almost completely abandoned by their inhabitants, discouraging settlement until the 19th century. From the 16th to 19th century, pirates captured an estimated 800,000 to 1.25 million Europeans as slaves, mainly from seaside villages in Italy, Spain, and Portugal, but also from France, Britain, the Netherlands, Ireland and as far away as Iceland and North America.
sudaniya, the above is legitimate evidence of black moorish pirates, riff pirates of Morocco
So we may have enslaved Doxies ancestors
Posts: 42921 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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"We"? You're not even black, so what "we" are you talking about? You haven't provided evidence of anything other than crappy, indefinite drawings of Barbary pirates. These pirates were just like the people we see on the North African coast today -- light skin Berbers whose ancestors migrated into Africa from the Iberian Peninsula thousands of years ago or Arabs that arrived in Africa in the 7th century.
If there were black pirates among the Barbary Pirates, then they were probably just mercenaries - a numerically insignificant group not worthy of mention.
Posts: 1568 | From: Pluto | Registered: Sep 2008
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quote:Originally posted by sudaniya: Nobody denies that modern man originated in Africa and colonized every corner of the world tens of thousands of years ago, but you have not presented any evidence suggesting that the Moors commissioned the conquest of the Iberian Peninsula on their own. Provide your answers [with actual evidence] instead of talking nonsense.
PS: I don't believe that Africans couldn't conquer regions outside Africa without the help of others because my people conquered Palestine and Lebanon long before the Moors were sent into Europe by the Umayyad dynasty in the services of the noble message of the Quran.
I know that I will be criticized once again for picking on Africans....But:
You are an idiot!
Sounds like you are an Islamist.
You will find that religion (Any religion) and accurate history, are NOT compatible.
That is why we avoid religion, and religious teachings here - word to the wise.
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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there is no more proof that I am not black than proof that you are black
quote:Originally posted by sudaniya:
You haven't provided evidence of anything other than crappy, indefinite drawings of Barbary pirates. These pirates were just like the people we see on the North African coast today -- light skin Berbers whose ancestors migrated into Africa from the Iberian Peninsula thousands of years ago or Arabs that arrived in Africa in the 7th century.
If there were black pirates among the Barbary Pirates, then they were probably just mercenaries - a numerically insignificant group not worthy of mention.
Morocco is comprised mainly of Arabized berbers, defined as berbers before Islam
quote:Originally posted by sudaniya: [qb] Nobody denies that modern man originated in Africa and colonized every corner of the world tens of thousands of years ago, but you have not presented any evidence suggesting that the Moors commissioned the conquest of the Iberian Peninsula on their own.
That doesn't matter these are allies
After the initial conquest The Almoravids a Berber dynasty from the Sahara spread over a wide area of North-Western Africa and the Iberian peninsula during the 11th century. Under this dynasty the Moorish empire was extended over present-day Morocco, Western Sahara, Mauritania, Gibraltar, Tlemcen (in Algeria) and a great part of what is now Senegal and Mali in the south, and Spain and Portugal to the north in Europe.
quote: there is no more proof that I am not black than proof that you are black
This inability to discern who somebody really is on the internet is a strength as much as it is a weakness of this medium, but I'm quite certain that you are not black. It makes no sense for a supposedly black person (unless a traitor) to constantly push for "mixed-raced" or Eurasian Egypt in opposition to all lines of evidence. How many times have you pointed to populations in Jordan and Syria with regard to AE affinities even when no evidence supports this?
quote: Morocco is comprised mainly of Arabized berbers, defined as berbers before Islam
Yes, and these Berbers are from the coast -- derivatives of people that most likely originated in the Iberian Peninsula thousands of years ago; people that adopted an African language, customs and culture from the original Berbers that stem from a common ancestor with the Beja of Sudan.
quote:That doesn't matter these are allies
After the initial conquest The Almoravids a Berber dynasty from the Sahara spread over a wide area of North-Western Africa and the Iberian peninsula during the 11th century. Under this dynasty the Moorish empire was extended over present-day Morocco, Western Sahara, Mauritania, Gibraltar, Tlemcen (in Algeria) and a great part of what is now Senegal and Mali in the south, and Spain and Portugal to the north in Europe.
Extent of the Almoravid empire, 11th century
The fact that Senegal and Mauritania were conquered and incorporated into these empires is of tremendous importance; it means that blame cannot be ascribed to people that were themselves subjugated by others -- others that instructed them to act under their agency under coercion.
Posts: 1568 | From: Pluto | Registered: Sep 2008
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And this helps you, how? Cite the specific passages that you think help your case from a book that you admit to to have only read in passing.
Posts: 1568 | From: Pluto | Registered: Sep 2008
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posted
Clyde - As I had told Brada many times previous, when he brought up Van sertima. I chose never to read the work of past Afrocentrics because in skimming, I found their conclusions to be "Flawed" at best, and often "Made-up".
I'm sure Mr. Williams was sincere in his work, but the thing about White Egyptians as conquering hordes is pure nonsense - unless he is talking "Post Dynastic".
Have you read his work? What is he talking about? I would hate to declare him a fool.
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Mike111: Clyde - As I had told Brada many times previous, when he brought up Van sertima. I chose never to read the work of past Afrocentrics because in skimming, I found their conclusions to be "Flawed" at best, and often "Made-up".
Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
Pure nonsense.
Al~Murabitun originated in Mauritania and Senegal.
What the fact is, is that the founder of al~Murabitun disgusted with Zenaga speakers turned to the 'Gnawa' of northern most Senegal who were already Muslim practicing standard Islam.
quote:Originally posted by sudaniya: . The fact that Senegal and Mauritania were conquered and incorporated into these empires is of tremendous importance; it means that blame cannot be ascribed to people that were themselves subjugated by others -- others that instructed them to act under their agency under coercion.
Posts: 8179 | From: the Tekrur straddling Senegal & Mauritania | Registered: Dec 2011
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: For those who don't know
Al~Murabitun = Almoravid dynasty 1040–1147 AD
quote:ZENAGA (SANHAJA, SENAJER), a Berber tribe of southern Morocco who gave their name to Senegal, once their tribal home. They formed one of the tribes which, uniting under the leadership of Yusef bin Tashfin, crossed the Sahara and gave a dynasty to Morocco and Spain, namely, that of the Almoravides (q.v.). The Zeirid dynasty which supplanted the Fatimites in the Maghrib and founded the city of Algiers was also of Zenaga origin. The Zenaga dialect of Berber is spoken in southern Morocco and on the banks of the lower Senegal, largely by the negro population.
--Originally appearing in Volume V28, Page 967 of the 1911 Encyclopedia Britannica.
Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
Well, they'd know if they'd bother perusing ES' archive. What a waste. People built this place up for lurkers to rip off because the current members are true to the negro m.o. of each generation and each individual starting from square-one instead of expanding, precisioning, and refining that which came before.
That's why others progress while negroes spin their wheels making no advancement, but spending energy in a mark time march.
quote: "not all of the black african population are gnawa."
--Deborah Anne Kapchan
Traveling spirit masters: Moroccan Gnawa trance and music in the global marketplace.
Wesleyan University Press, 2007, page 19.
E-M81 the Berber CLADE!!!!!!
quote:“Haplogroup E
Haplogroup E is the most frequent haplogroup in Africa, but is also found in the Middle East, southern Europe and Asia (Cruciani et al., 2002; Semino et al., 2004; Karafet et al., 2008). Among its sub-clades, E-M81 and E-M78 seem to be of North African origin with Paleolithic and Neolithic expansions that reached surrounding areas (Arredi et al., 2004; Cruciani et al., 2007).
Firstly, E-M81 is the most common haplogroup in North Africa showing its highest concentrations in Northwestern Africa (76 % in Saharawis in Morocco (Arredi et al., 2004)) with cline frequencies decreasing eastward: Algeria (45 %), Libya (34 %) and Egypt (10 %) (Robino et al., 2008; Triki-Fendri et al., submitted; Arredi et al., 2004).
Besides, Ottoni et al., (2011) have reported that E-M81 appear to constitute a common paternal genetic matrix in the Tuareg populations where it was encountered at high frequency (89 %).
Hence, the distribution of this haplogroup in Africa closely matches the present area of Berber-speaking population’s allocation on the continent, suggesting a close haplogroup-ethnic group parallelism (Bosch et al., 2001; Cruciani et al., 2002; 2004; Arredi et al., 2004; Fadhlaoui-Zid et al., 2011; Bekada et al., 2013). However, knowing that the Berber dialects have been replaced by Arabic in North African populations, carriers of E-M81 haplogroup are currently Arab-speaking peoples whose ancestors were Berber-speaking.
[...]
Outside of Africa, E-M81 is almost absent in the Middle East and in Europe (with the exception of Iberia and Sicily). The presence of E-M81 in the Iberian Peninsula (12 % in southern Portugal) (Cruciani et al., 2004) has been attributed to trans-Mediterranean contacts linked to the Islamic influence, since it is typically Berber (Bosch et al., 2001; Semino et al., 2004; Beleza et al., 2006; Alvarez et al., 2009; Cruciani et al., 2007; Trombetta et al., 2011).
—S Triki-Fendri, A Rebai 2015
Synthetic review on the genetic relatedness between North Africa and Arabia deduced from paternal lineage distributions
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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Beginning with the Arab conquest of the western Maghrib in the 8th century, Mauritania experienced a slow but constant infiltration of Arabs and Arab influence from the north. The growing Arab presence pressed the Berbers, who chose not to mix with other groups, to move farther south into Mauritania, forcing out the Black inhabitants. By the 16th century, most Blacks had been pushed to the Senegal River. Those remaining in the north became slaves cultivating the oases.
After the decline of the Almoravid Empire, a long process of arabization began in Mauritania, one that until then had been resisted successfully by the Berbers.Several groups of Yemeni Arabs who had been devastating the north of Africa turned south to Mauritania. Settling in northern Mauritania, they disrupted the caravan trade, causing routes to shift east, which in turn led to the gradual decline of Mauritania's trading towns. One particular Yemeni group, the Bani Hassan, continued to migrate southward until, by the end of the 17th century, they dominated the entire country. The last effort of the Berbers to shake off the Arab yoke was the Mauritanian Thirty Years' War (1644-74), or Sharr Bubba, led by Nasir ad Din, a Lemtuna imam (see Glossary). This Sanhadja war of liberation was, however, unsuccessful; the [u]Berbers were forced to abandon the sword and became vassals to the warrior Arab groups[/u].
Thus, the contemporary social structure of Mauritania can be dated from 1674. The warrior groups or Arabs dominated the Berber groups, who turned to clericalism to regain a degree of ascendancy. At the bottom of the social structure were the slaves, subservient to both warriors and Islamic holy men. [u]All of these groups, whose language was Hassaniya Arabic, became known as Maures[/u]. The bitter rivalries and resentments characteristic of their social structure were later fully exploited by the French.
alTakruri notes: Missing from the essay is the first Arab attack against Ghana which was utterly smashed. A few Arabs fled back north across the Sahara but the majority of the invading forces settled down in the Tagant and the Hodh under suzeriegnty of Ghana where they became the Honethin (sp?)
source: Area handbook for Mauritania Brian Dean Curran, Joann L. Schrock, American Institutes for Research - 1972
Posts: 42921 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
LOL This passage confirms that the region was inhabited by blacks. Thanks for posting, "African America woman". lol
quote:
-Beginning with the Arab conquest of the western Maghrib in the 8th century, Mauritania experienced a slow but constant infiltration of Arabs and Arab influence from the north.
-The growing Arab presence pressed the Berbers, who chose not to mix with other groups, to move farther south into Mauritania, forcing out the Black inhabitants.
-By the 16th century, most Blacks had been pushed to the Senegal River. Those remaining in the north became slaves cultivating the oases.
Topology Atlas || Conferences
"Rapid and catastrophic environmental changes in the Holocene and human response" first joint meeting of IGCP 490 and ICSU Environmental catastrophes in Mauritania, the desert and the coast January 4-18, 2004
Field conference departing from Atar Atar, Mauritania
Organizers Suzanne Leroy, Aziz Ballouche, Mohamed Salem Ould Sabar, and Sylvain Philip (Hommes et Montagnes travel agency)
View Abstracts Conference Homepage
What is the impact of Holocene climatic changes on human societies: analysis of Neolithic population dynamic and dietary customs. by Jousse, Helene
UMR Paléoenvironnements et Paléobiosphère, Université Claude Bernard Lyon 1, Villeurbanne, France.
quote: The reconstruction of human cultural patterns in relation to environmental variations is an essential topic in modern archaeology.
In western Africa, a first Holocene humid phase beginning c. 11,000 years BP is known from the analysis of lacustrine sediments (Riser, 1983 ; Gasse, 2002). The monsoon activity increased and reloaded hydrological networks (like the Saharan depressions) leading to the formation of large palaeolakes. The colonisation of the Sahara by vegetation, animals and humans was then possible essentially around the topographic features like Ahaggar (fig. 1). But since 8,000 years BP, the climate began to oscillate towards a new arid episode, and disturbed the ecosystems (Jolly et al., 1998; Jousse, 2003).
First, the early Neolithics exploited the wild faunas, by hunting and fishing, and occupied small sites without any trace of settlement in relatively high latitudes. Then, due to the climatic deterioration, they had to move southwards.
This context leads us to consider the notion of refugia. Figure 1 presents the main zones colonised by humans in western Africa. When the fossil valleys of Azaouad, Tilemsi and Azaouagh became dry, after ca. 5,000 yr BP, humans had to find refuges in the Sahelian belt, and gathered around topographic features (like the Adrar des Iforas, and the Mauritanians Dhar) and major rivers, especially the Niger Interior Delta, called the Mema.
Whereas the Middle Neolithic is relatively well-known, the situation obviously becomes more complex and less information is available concerning local developments in late Neolithic times.. Only some cultural affiliations existed between the populations of Araouane and Kobadi in the Mema. Elsewhere, and especially along the Atlantic coast and in the Dhar Tichitt and Nema, the question of the origin of Neolithic peopling remains unsolved.
A study of the palaeoenvironment of those refugia was performed by analysing antelopes ecological requirements (Jousse, submitted). It shows that even if the general climate was drying from 5,000 – 4,000 yr BP in the Sahara and Sahel, edaphic particularities of these refugia allowed the persistence of local gallery forest or tree savannas, where humans and animals could have lived (fig. 2). At the same time, cultural innovation like agriculture, cattle breeding, social organisation in villages are recognised. For the moment, the relation between the northern and the southern populations are not well known.
How did humans react against aridity? Their dietary behaviour are followed along the Holocene, in relation with the environment, demographic expansion, settling process and emergence of productive activities.
- The first point concerns the pastoralism. The progression of cattle pastoralism from eastern Africa (fig. 3) is recorded from 7,400 yr BP in the Ahaggar and only from 4,400 yr BP in western Africa. This trend of breeding activities and human migrations can be related to climatic evolution. Since forests are infested by Tse-Tse flies preventing cattle breeding, the reduction of forest in the low-Sahelian belt freed new areas to be colonised. Because of the weakness of the archaeozoological material available, it is difficult to know what was the first pattern of cattle exploitation.
- A second analysis was carried on the resources balance, between fishing-hunting-breeding activities. The diagrams on figures 4 and 5 present the number of species of wild mammals, fishes and domestic stock, from a literature compilation. Fishing is known around Saharan lakes and in the Niger. Of course, it persisted with the presence of water points and even in historical times, fishing became a specialised activity among population living in the Niger Interior Delta. Despite the general environmental deterioration, hunting does not decrease thanks to the upholding of the vegetation in these refugia (fig. 2). On the contrary, it is locally more diversified, because at this local scale, the game diversity is closely related to the vegetation cover. Hence, the arrival of pastoral activities was not prevalent over other activities in late Neolithic, when diversifying resources appeared as an answer to the crisis.
This situation got worse in the beginning of historic times, from 2,000 yr BP, when intense settling process and an abrupt aridity event (Lézine & Casanova, 1989) led to a more important perturbation of wild animals communities. They progressively disappeared from the human diet, and the cattle, camel and caprin breeding prevailed as today.
Gasse, F., 2002. Diatom-inferred salinity and carbonate oxygen isotopes in Holocene waterbodies of the western Sahara and Sahel (Africa). Quaternary Science Reviews: 717-767.
Jolly, D., Harrison S. P., Damnati B. and Bonnefille R. , 1998. Simulated climate and biomes of Africa during the late Quaternary : Comparison with pollen and lake status data. Quaternary Science Review 17: 629-657.
Jousse H., 2003. Impact des variations environnementales sur la structure des communautés mammaliennes et l'anthropisation des milieux: exemple des faunes holocènes du Sahara occidental. Thèse de l’Université Lyon 1, 405 p.
Jousse H, 2003. Using archaeological fauna to calibrate palaeovegetation: the Holocene Bovids of western Africa. Submit to Quaternary Science Reviews in november 2003, référence: QSR 03-333.
Lézine, A. M. and J. Casanova, 1989. Pollen and hydrological evidence for the interpretation of past climate in tropical West Africa during the Holocene. Quaternary Science Review 8: 45-55.
Riser, J., 1983. Les phases lacustres holocènes. Sahara ou Sahel ? Quaternaire récent du bassin de Taoudenni (Mali). Marseille: 65-86.
quote:After the decline of the Almoravid Empire, a long process of arabization began in Mauritania, one that until then had been resisted successfully by the Berbers
Of which Berbers do they speak? "Berbers" seems kind of general. I doubt very much they went by the name "Berber".
Was the author perhaps implying this woman is a slave descendant?
quote:After the decline of the Almoravid Empire, a long process of arabization began in Mauritania, one that until then had been resisted successfully by the Berbers
quote:After the decline of the Almoravid Empire, a long process of arabization began in Mauritania, one that until then had been resisted successfully by the Berbers
Of which Berbers do they speak?
Sanhaja
Sanhaja. lol OK. in case you missed this one:
quote:ZENAGA (SANHAJA, SENAJER), a Berber tribe of southern Morocco who gave their name to Senegal, once their tribal home. They formed one of the tribes which, uniting under the leadership of Yusef bin Tashfin, crossed the Sahara and gave a dynasty to Morocco and Spain, namely, that of the Almoravides (q.v.). The Zeirid dynasty which supplanted the Fatimites in the Maghrib and founded the city of Algiers was also of Zenaga origin. The Zenaga dialect of Berber is spoken in southern Morocco and on the banks of the lower Senegal, largely by the negro population.
--Originally appearing in Volume V28, Page 967 of the 1911 Encyclopedia Britannica.
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche: According to certain Midieval Arabic writers the Berbers were composed of 70 clans that descended from 5 major tribes which were the Masmuda, Ketama, Sanhaja Zenata and Ghomara.
One translation of Manilius tells us the Berbers of Mauretania were the fairest of all the black peoples (including the Ethiopians, Indi and Egyptians). These were the Mauri whom Jerome and other Romans classified as Ethiopians and whom Platus says were also known as "Niger" or "Nigri".
ZENATA
Tuareg of Mali belong to the of Iforas or Banu Ifren anciently known as the Ifuraces of the Laguaten Mauri a camel riding "Ethiopian" race of ancient Tripolitania in Libya. They still use the same swords menitoned by Corripus.
The "race of Guelaia" including the Bu Ifrur belonged to the Zenata as well. They were among the last remnants of eh pure Zenata in the northern Morrocan area.
"For some strange reason" they are classified by early writers as "the black descendants of Canaan" black race of Ham. Everyone from ibn Qutaybah in the 9th century to Ibn Khaldun of the 14th claimed this. (Of course the allegory doesn't explain the color of modern black Africans Berber or otherwise.) Actually looking at these photos you can see it wasn't strange at all.
Berber of the Shluh
Masmuda of the Shluh and Upper Atlas are called blacks by Abu Shama and by the Iranian Nasr Khosroes 11th c. who designates the Masmuda soldiers in the Fatimid army "the black Africans" "FOR SOME STRANGE REASON".
Masmuda lined the coast of Morrroco in earlier times before the later Zenata arrival.
Modern Ghomara claim descent from the Masmuda.
Most Berbers are still the lightest of "the Ethiopian" races
Berbers in Libya
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:After the decline of the Almoravid Empire, a long process of arabization began in Mauritania, one that until then had been resisted successfully by the Berbers
Of which Berbers do they speak?
Sanhaja
Sanhaja. lol OK. incase you missed this one:
quote:ZENAGA (SANHAJA, SENAJER), a Berber tribe of southern Morocco who gave their name to Senegal, once their tribal home. They formed one of the tribes which, uniting under the leadership of Yusef bin Tashfin, crossed the Sahara and gave a dynasty to Morocco and Spain, namely, that of the Almoravides (q.v.). The Zeirid dynasty which supplanted the Fatimites in the Maghrib and founded the city of Algiers was also of Zenaga origin. The Zenaga dialect of Berber is spoken in southern Morocco and on the banks of the lower Senegal, largely by the negro population.
--Originally appearing in Volume V28, Page 967 of the 1911 Encyclopedia Britannica.
So you ask me which berbers and I gave you the answer, yet in your backwards mind I missed something
Posts: 42921 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:After the decline of the Almoravid Empire, a long process of arabization began in Mauritania, one that until then had been resisted successfully by the Berbers
Of which Berbers do they speak?
Sanhaja
Sanhaja. lol OK. incase you missed this one:
quote:ZENAGA (SANHAJA, SENAJER), a Berber tribe of southern Morocco who gave their name to Senegal, once their tribal home. They formed one of the tribes which, uniting under the leadership of Yusef bin Tashfin, crossed the Sahara and gave a dynasty to Morocco and Spain, namely, that of the Almoravides (q.v.). The Zeirid dynasty which supplanted the Fatimites in the Maghrib and founded the city of Algiers was also of Zenaga origin. The Zenaga dialect of Berber is spoken in southern Morocco and on the banks of the lower Senegal, largely by the negro population.
--Originally appearing in Volume V28, Page 967 of the 1911 Encyclopedia Britannica.
So you ask me which berbers and I gave you the answer, yet in your backwards mind I missed something
I posted that before. And the possibility is there, 50/50% that you missed it. So I reposted it. Why aren't you happy I did, "African America woman"? LOL At me being supposedly backwards in thinking. Too funny.
What is it you actually try to proof in this thread? lol
What was it you tried to poof with this source? "Brian Dean Curran, Joann L. Schrock, American Institutes for Research - 1972"
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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