quote:Originally posted by Mike111: real people don't look like that!
your comment makes no sense whatsoever, of course people look like that
There is information on the table. All you are doing is having an emotional outburst right now And the portraits are not even generic, they look like individuals and the portrait by John Windus, Windus was part of a British delegation who visited the court of Moulay Ismail in Morocco.
So fall back, you are not up to this, find some tissues
No you stupid Bitch, REAL people do NOT look like this.
It is a "CARICATURE" done by lying degenerate Albinos like yourself, to make the subject appear to be an Albino!
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Mike111: real people don't look like that!
your comment makes no sense whatsoever, of course people look like that
There is information on the table. All you are doing is having an emotional outburst right now And the portraits are not even generic, they look like individuals and the portrait by John Windus, Windus was part of a British delegation who visited the court of Moulay Ismail in Morocco.
So fall back, you are not up to this, find some tissues
No you stupid Bitch, REAL people do NOT look like this.
It is a "CARICATURE" done by lying degenerate Albinos like yourself, to make the subject appear to be an Albino!
So, old paintings and drawings you like are "photographically" accurate, even if done by "albinos". But the ones you disagree with are Caricatures. Please define caricature and how it applies to this image?
A real "science" this pictionary.
Posts: 833 | From: Austin, TX | Registered: Jan 2007
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It is a "CARICATURE" done by lying degenerate Albinos like yourself, to make the subject appear to be an Albino!
quote:Originally posted by Quetzalcoatl: So, old paintings and drawings you like are "photographically" accurate, even if done by "albinos". But the ones you disagree with are Caricatures. Please define caricature and how it applies to this image?
A real "science" this pictionary.
He,he,he,he:
I don't know why Albinos so love to go around in circles like this.
BUT I DON'T!
Tell you what, post a picture of a HUMAN of any race, who looks like this, and I will concede your point.
posted
A caricature is a rendered image showing the features of its subject in a simplified or exaggerated way through sketching, pencil strokes or through other artistic drawings.
The features being exaggerated here are Caucasian features with creamery skin and soft flowing hair - straight or curly and perfect lips. It is the Caucasian Albinos fantasy image of what Caucasian Albinos look like.
Those of you who were here when Cass was here, might remember that he actually believed that those "Air brushed and re-colored" images of Albino women in magazines were REAL!
That same delusional thinking is why Quetzalcoatl so confidently made his statement.
They are all delusional nut cases!
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posted
Channeling the thread: "The White/Albino Mans Fantasy World, and it's ramifications for non-Albinos".
Tell the truth, how many of you non-Albinos, looked at the pictures and though nothing of it - thinking they were real people?
See there: you have been "Conditioned" or perhaps better described as "Programed" to accept Albino nonsense and lie as the truth.
Recognizing it, is the first step in defeating it!
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
Anybody believing a beardless man could in fact be the Muslim ruler of Morocco, a sheriff no less is a gullible sap.
The same said of ar Rachid is more than applicable to the Lioness's examples. As portrait art is inimical to Islam no Alawide sat for a portrait. They all at best were drawn from memory. At least ar~Rachid's matches written accounts.
Now its tedious going over this old stuff again and again when we know and already showed the stance and attitude of the Lioness's portraits are European artists blanks with different faces completing them.
But if any of you have read her thread on a book about Morocco you know:
At first, the reader must be aware that in Section 1: "Reproductions of 17th cent. to 1873 published drawings", are in general imagery pieces of work which rarely reflect a close resemblance to the actual Sultan. The reason for this is easily explained – since such works (from the beginning of Islam to Sultan Sidi Mhd. IV) were strictly forbidden by law (Sharia). Further, it was impossible for any artist to see a Sharif on his own. However, when a Foreign Delegations was received at the Sharifian Court, then such a delegation was sometimes accompanied by an artist, (example: F-Delacroix; GB-Keatinge). During such an occasions the accompanying artist had, but a brief glance at the Sharif from far distance. All of what the artist saw he had to absorb and memorise in his head as otherwise he would have taken an enormous risk by making a sketch on the spot.
How is Isma'il described by contemporaneous writers? Was he indeed a Muslim beardless sultan?
In light of the above quote compare and contrast these two of Mawlay Raschid who was Isma'il's brother.
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Posts: 8179 | From: the Tekrur straddling Senegal & Mauritania | Registered: Dec 2011
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posted
I asked Tukuler if any blacks lead the enslavement of Europeans anywhere in the Maghreb?
He was scared to answer
so now I put the question to Mike. Mike can you answer this so we can move on? It shouldn't be that difficult, not for me, for the benefit of the readership
Did any blacks lead the enslavement of Europeans anywhere in the Maghreb? we need a yes or no before information bombs and pictures.
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
You can't goad me child.
When you show you can get to the point of my prerequisite I may myself answer questions you can ask intelligently not a 'target' broader than a barn.
Besides, a little homework on Maroc shows the founders' degree of blackness and that of their civil servants. All that's left is to piece together their regional governors.
And wasn't it you who posted the RIF Pirate clipping held by the New York Public Library and that picture postcard of Ruffians at sea?
So no I'm not the simpdimp that'll further your nefarious designs.
Get lost. Scram.Scat cat or deal with the subject matter, readers tire of you Tukuler this Tukuler that when it's facts they're after, facts not twisted by you.
And wasn't it you who posted the RIF Pirate clipping held by the New York Public Library and that picture postcard of Ruffians at sea?
yes but my question was
Did any blacks lead the enslavement of Europeans anywhere in the Maghreb?
key word "lead"
quote:Originally posted by sudaniya: Were those black people in the Maghreb not slaves themselves!? Moulay Ismail enslaved blacks, conscripted them and used them for his own purposes, so you can't even begin to equate this with the actions of Europeans that were under no duress when they enslaved millions of black people.
did blacks make the decisions to kidnap Europeans and enslave them or were they directed to do it by non-blacks anywhere in Africa? That would have to include ship captains, high ranking naval officers, ultimately sultans
Posts: 42937 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
^Maybe the lioness should post pictures of the people the lioness describes as black right now. The lioness always posts comparative pictures. So we on this forum have clear sense what the lioness is talking about.
Posts: 22235 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
I would correct everyone in this thread about the origins of the Moors and Berbers, but I believe @Tukuler is already doing a good job.
Most of us seem to forget that for the most part in history Northwest Africa was sparsely populated. The modern day Eurasian population of NW Africa mostly descends from expelled European Muslims and enslaved European females which mtdna supports. They were easily able to become more predominate than the black population similar to how Bantus became more predominate than the native Khoisan population.
Posts: 1891 | From: NY | Registered: Sep 2014
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quote:Originally posted by BlessedbyHorus: I would correct everyone in this thread about the origins of the Moors and Berbers, but I believe @Tukuler is already doing a good job.
Most of us seem to forget that for the most part in history Northwest Africa was sparsely populated. The modern day Eurasian population of NW Africa mostly descends from expelled European Muslims and enslaved European females which mtdna supports. They were easily able to become more predominate than the black population similar to how Bantus became more predominate than the native Khoisan population.
This is logic.
Posts: 22235 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: "clear sense" = "the oakey doke"
Lioness, do what you do best. Post pictures for clear sense. So everybody knows what you're talking about.
Posts: 22235 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by BlessedbyHorus: I would correct everyone in this thread about the origins of the Moors and Berbers, but I believe @Tukuler is already doing a good job.
Most of us seem to forget that for the most part in history Northwest Africa was sparsely populated. The modern day Eurasian population of NW Africa mostly descends from expelled European Muslims and enslaved European females which mtdna supports. They were easily able to become more predominate than the black population similar to how Bantus became more predominate than the native Khoisan population.
Boy I hate this:
You know NOTHING of the history of the region, yet you want to talk about who the people are.
quote:Originally posted by BlessedbyHorus: I would correct everyone in this thread about the origins of the Moors and Berbers, but I believe @Tukuler is already doing a good job.
Most of us seem to forget that for the most part in history Northwest Africa was sparsely populated. The modern day Eurasian population of NW Africa mostly descends from expelled European Muslims and enslaved European females which mtdna supports. They were easily able to become more predominate than the black population similar to how Bantus became more predominate than the native Khoisan population.
Boy I hate this:
You know NOTHING of the history of the region, yet you want to talk about who the people are.
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: [QB] Please, Obama's mum is NW Euro. Ismail had no NW Euro parent. His father's impression portrait
I've been going over this again, changed my mind on it
Artist Wenceslaus Hollar went with a diplomatic mission to Tangier in 1669. he was sent by Charles II to document it. Most of it was landscape and etchings including the above portrait. The later etching were based on in situ drawings.
It is undoubtedly Moulay al-Rachid whom they were visiting. He didn't necessarily draw the sultan in front of him but he was there. I believe the reason the name "zeriff" is there is because it is just he descendancy from his father
It's Rachid, no doubt in my mind, half brother of Moulay Ishmail
The Moors and the Barbary pirates were not black...These groups were Eurasians that made their way into Africa from the 7th Century,
He is partially right.
quote: Shortly after arriving in Morocco, Pellow was forced to convert to Islam. He became a Muslim, learned Arabic, and was assigned a wife from the sultan’s harem, with whom he had two children. He then became a personal slave of Moulay Ismail and had the rare opportunity to experience the court of the sultan, witnessing firsthand his notorious cruelty.
[...]
Pre-Encounter
The Barbary Coast was a term used to refer to the coastal regions of North Africa, which included Morocco, Algiers, Tripoli, and Tunisia. The latter three were regencies or military provinces of the Ottoman Empire. The term ‘Barbary’ originally referred to the Berbers, a people indigenous to North Africa. The British used the term ‘Barbary’ to denote the entire area of North Africa, excluding Egypt. Moreover, the term was used to describe a wide variety of people such as Arabs, Berbers, Moriscos, and others.
Captivity and Encounter: Thomas Pellow, The Moroccan Renegade By: Mark Celinscak
A study into the effects of Barbary Piracy on England and Cornwall
In 1677 a Falmouth mother wrote a letter to the Bishop of Exeter requesting permission to petition the diocese for the ransom of her son, a slave in Algiers. [1] He was not alone in his plight, and nor was she in her quest to see him returned. Thousands of men, women and children were taken from their ships, and homes and churches on land. The perpetrators were from the Barbary Coast of Africa, and were known as Barbaries, Moors, Turks and Corsairs.
quote:Sanhaja, Masmoda, and Zenata are the three tribes constituting the Berbers.
The Sanhaja, from which sprang the Almoravide dynasty (the founders of Marrakesh) were nomads who in the 11C conquered the desert and much of the region to the south of it for Islam; the Masmouda were quiet farming people who lived in the north and west and in the High and Anti Atlas mountains and it was they who gave rise (from out Tin Mal , S of Marrakesh to the Almohade Dynasty which displaced the Almoravides; the Zenata a sub-group of which the - Beni Marin- swept in from the empty region between the Tafilalet and Algeria to become the great Merinide dynasty, were tough, horse-riding nomads of the cold high plateaux of the interior.
quote:ZENAGA (SANHAJA, SENAJER), a Berber tribe of southern Morocco who gave their name to Senegal, once their tribal home. They formed one of the tribes which, uniting under the leadership of Yusef bin Tashfin, crossed the Sahara and gave a dynasty to Morocco and Spain, namely, that of the Almoravides (q.v.). The Zeirid dynasty which supplanted the Fatimites in the Maghrib and founded the city of Algiers was also of Zenaga origin. The Zenaga dialect of Berber is spoken in southern Morocco and on the banks of the lower Senegal, largely by the negro population.
--Originally appearing in Volume V28, Page 967 of the 1911 Encyclopedia Britannica.
quote: The original inhabitance of the North of North Africa are black Africans.
quote:Zenata (Berber: Ijenaden) are a major old Berber ethnic group of North Africa. They were an umbrella-group encompassing probably hundreds of large linguistically or genealogically related Berber tribes in the north, center and east of Berber North Africa (excluding the Nile valley of Egypt). Zenata Berbers were the founders of several Berber empires, kingdoms and princedoms in North Africa.
posted
^ I see nothing that says these people are of the Zenata tribe The picture is from Senegal and this thread is oriented toward the pirates of coastal North Africa and berber tribes are nomadic and far from homogeneous
--Short History of Africa: From the Origins of the Human Race to the Arab Spring By Gordon Kerr
Posts: 42937 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
Laughable divisionary nonsense above. lol As if fighting each other will discredit the ethnic backgrounds and origin of these groups. smh
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: ^ I see nothing that says these people are of the Zenata tribe The picture is from Senegal and this thread is oriented toward the pirates of coastal North Africa and berber tribes are nomadic and far from homogeneous
--Short History of Africa: From the Origins of the Human Race to the Arab Spring By Gordon Kerr
This dumbo doesn't know that Tuareg are also found in Senegal. The Zenata, Sehanja are historically related groups to "Tuareg" and vice versa. lol All have the same geographical origin.
Gourara or Ghurara Berbers of southwestern Algeria are considered Zenata
Dance of the "Zanata" Berbers of the Adrar Oasis, Algeria.( Ibn Khaldun referred to the Zanata as the biggest Berber group in North Africa.)
Ancient civilizations in the region all had interference with one another, retarded racist.
quote: Tuareg
Tuareg Berber-speaking pastoralists who inhabit an area in North and West Africa ranging from Touat, Alg., and Ghudāmis, Libya, to northern Nigeria and from Fezzan, Libya, to Timbuktu, Mali. Their political organizations extend across national boundaries. In the late 20th century there were estimated to be 900,000 Tuareg.
The northern Tuareg live mainly in true desert country, whereas the southerners live primarily in steppe and savanna. The Tuareg consist of confederations including the Ahaggar (Hoggar) and Azjer (Ajjer) in the north and the Asben (Aïr Tuareg), Ifora, Itesen (Kel Geres), Aulliminden, and Kel Tademaket in the south. The southerners breed zebu cattle and camels, some of which are sold to the northern Tuareg. Raiding of caravans and travelers was important in pre-European times, as was caravan trading, which declined with the introduction of motor vehicles. Droughts across southern Mauritania, Senegal, Niger, Burkina Faso (Upper Volta), and Chad in the 1970s and ’80s both reduced the numbers of the southern Tuareg and eroded their traditional pastoral way of life.
quote:The Sanhája or Senhaja (also Zenaga, Veledi Sanhája, Znaga or Sanhadja; Berber: Aẓnag, Iẓnagen; Arabic (from Berber): صنهاجة Ṣanhājah) were once one of the largest Berber tribal confederations of the Maghreb, along with the Zanata and Masmuda.[1] Many tribes in Berber areas bore and still bear this ethnonym, especially in its Berber form.
After the arrival of Islam, the Sanhâdja spread out to the borders of the Sudan as far as the Senegal River and the Niger. From the 9th century, Sanhaja tribes were established in the Middle Atlas range, in the Rif Mountains and on the Atlantic coast of Morocco. A part of the Sanhaja, such as the Kutâma, settled in central/eastern Algeria and northern Niger. They played an important part in the rise of the Fatimids. The Sanhaja dynasties of the Zirids and Hammâdids controlled Ifriqiya until the 12th century.
quote: ZENAGA (SANHAJA, SENAJER), a Berber tribe of southern Morocco who gave their name to Senegal, once their tribal home. They formed one of the tribes which, uniting under the leadership of Yusef bin Tashfin, crossed the Sahara and gave a dynasty to Morocco and Spain, namely, that of the Almoravides (q.v.). The Zeirid dynasty which supplanted the Fatimites in the Maghrib and founded the city of Algiers was also of Zenaga origin. The Zenaga dialect of Berber is spoken in southern Morocco and on the banks of the lower Senegal, largely by the negro population.
quote:Originally posted by HidayaAkade: [QUOTE]Originally posted by Ish Gebor: [qb] Well, what have we learned thus far?
That the Moors were indeed black!
Were there black people who were not just conscript soldiers but were leaders in North Africa who directed the kidnapping and enslavement Europeans?
(I'm asking HidayaAkade not Ish Gebor)
You are a sad troll with no life. You don't have anything better to do than create multiple accounts and antagonize people who want to bring to light African history.
We have proved Multiple times that the Moors were Africans. Using that fact, what do you think the answer is genius?
You don't have anything better to do than create multiple accounts and antagonize people who want to bring to light African history.
So we have another liar here and she's saying I have multiple accounts. Stop spreading rumors and deception. If you can't deal with research and debate go away.We don't need groupies or cheerleaders
Posts: 42937 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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You don't have anything better to do than create multiple accounts and antagonize people who want to bring to light African history.
So we have another liar here and she's saying I have multiple accounts. Stop spreading rumors and deception. If you can't deal with research and debate go away.We don't need groupies or cheerleaders
What research, what debate? lol
I gave you facts, that's all there is to it. You can dance around them all day if you want to, it makes no difference.
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: Some Moors were undoubtedly black, others wern't.
/close thread
Your semantics is flaunt. Moors were black, and others in the empire weren't. They were just part of the empire/ dynasties. That doesn't make them authentic Moors in ancient/ classical historical ethnic sense. More so in religious sense.
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor: Division of Africa's coast
Geographers historically divided the eastern coast of Africa at large into several regions based on each region's respective inhabitants. In Somalia was Barbara, which was the land of the Eastern Baribah or Barbaroi (Berbers), as the ancestors of the Somalis were referred to by medieval Arab and ancient Greek geographers, respectively. [2][3][4] In modern-day Ethiopia was al-Habash or Abyssinia,[5] which was inhabited by the Habash or Abyssinians, who were the forebears of the Habesha.[6]
[2] F. R. C. Bagley et al., The Last Great Muslim Empires (Brill: 1997), p. 174.
[3]Mohamed Diriye Abdullahi, Culture and Customs of Somalia, (Greenwood Press: 2001), p. 13.
[4]James Hastings, Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics Part 12: V. 12 (Kessinger Publishing, LLC: 2003), p. 490.
[5]Sven Rubenson, The Survival of Ethiopian Independence (Tsehai, 2003), p. 30.
[6]Jonah Blank, Mullahs on the mainframe: Islam and modernity among the Daudi Bohras (University of Chicago Press, 2001), p. 163.
You don't have anything better to do than create multiple accounts and antagonize people who want to bring to light African history.
So we have another liar here and she's saying I have multiple accounts. Stop spreading rumors and deception. If you can't deal with research and debate go away.We don't need groupies or cheerleaders
A troll telling someone to stop spreading deception?
Sorry, I'm not going anywhere. But do continue posting research (BullSh!t threads), and getting your ass handed to you on a weekly basis.
Posts: 200 | From: Akahara | Registered: Aug 2012
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
Maestro
You may wanna Sift this for gold flake
Posts: 8179 | From: the Tekrur straddling Senegal & Mauritania | Registered: Dec 2011
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
Since this came up again I'm reposting from 10 year old page 3 and hope this will redirect off-topic traffic away from my Real Antalas thread on pre-Islamic Maurs.
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: No, the Moors were not even near white.
Originally posted October 08, 2011 by alTakruri:
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche:
quote:Originally posted by melanophobe7:
.
Are you going to show us where those red bearded Eurasitic Kurds or whatever they are you posted are called MOORS or Moro
.
The Hall of the Kings was named after the ten enigmatic individuals whose figures are illustrated on the dome above the main bedchamber. For many years the figures were incorrectly thought to depict leading members of the Nasrid dynasty; till the 19th century the chamber was known as the Hall of Justice owing to the fact that the figures were thought to be courtroom judges.
Nevertheless, it is generally understood that the scene is a realistic depiction of an activity that commonly took place there: a meeting of dignitaries in the presence of the Sultan or leading members of the Court.
The figures, whose features depict venerable westerners, are seen seated in traditional fashion and gesturing while having a lively conversation. They are ceremoniously dressed, bearing swords and wearing belts and Nasrid style turbans.
In fairness, a few Nasrid rulers were predominately Frankish in blood and sensitive of it they dyed at least their beards to black. Muslim "Spain" was diverse and cosmopolitan in many ways. ]
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