quote:Originally posted by Tream Lefty: My point is I think most people have *issues,* but it doesn't mean they aren't looking for real love.
Why you are saying this? Many people falling in love during a vacation somewhere else and they don't all have 'issues'! Actually it's a well-known fact and not a phenomen. You are implementing that these people are not emotional stable and have maybe even other things going on.
Thanks god that I didn't open up this thread, I would feel hurted by your words. You know sometimes you can't explain things logically, especially when it comes to love, nothing is black or white. Miss Sharm's story is one of many and something like this would have probably never happened to you but people live life and not everyone is calculating the if's and the when's. Foreign women want to make these kind of relationships work even if they are crossing oceans, cultures, social boundries - and even if it's 'only' a resort worker they fell in love with in the first place.
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by LaZeeZ: When a woman come here and cry for loseing a guy she didn't know, it brings to me the question, what did she lose which makes her cry? obviously not the person. You can't lose something you didn't acknowledge. what was it then?
She lost the *idea* of him. She lost the *what could be.* Which, when/if she realizes that, it should be much easier to let go....
Posts: 8794 | From: 01-20-09 The End of an Error | Registered: Dec 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Tream Lefty: My point is I think most people have *issues,* but it doesn't mean they aren't looking for real love.
Why you are saying this? Many people falling in love during a vacation somewhere else and they don't all have 'issues'! Actually it's a well-known fact and not a phenomen. You are implementing that these people are not emotional stable and have maybe even other things going on.
Thanks god that I didn't open up this thread, I would feel hurted by your words. You know sometimes you can't explain things logically, especially when it comes to love, nothing is black or white. Miss Sharm's story is one of many and something like this would have probably never happened to you but people live life and not everyone is calculating the if's and the when's. Foreign women want to make these kind of relationships work even if they are crossing oceans, cultures, social boundries - and even if it's 'only' a resort worker they fell in love with in the first place.
You are taking this out of context; it doesn't relate to Miss Sharm's original question or even the fact she decided to stop seeing the guy she met. It is within the context of the discussion I'm having with Lazeez, so please take it as such.
And what you call *love,* I call *lust.* I cannot fathom that someone truly falls in love on a short vacation. A person might plant the seeds for a true love to grow, but that's a different story.
Posts: 8794 | From: 01-20-09 The End of an Error | Registered: Dec 2004
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Married 10/14/01, had I-485 Marriage interview in September 12, 2002 after filing the marriage peitition in January 2002.
Recently filed the I-751 in June 2004, waiting for conditional status to removed in order to file N-400.
Lots of restrictions, I am secondary sponsor as a wife. Must continue college and eventually finish my BS. Plus work in order to earn a minuim of a yearly salary.
Again I met my ex husband in person, not over the internet and not on vacation.
He was already in the USA and legal. He didn't need to get into the USA nor need me to stay in the USA.
Tigerweed, get over it.
Posts: 3168 | From: If you don't like it, don't look or read it! | Registered: Oct 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Tream Lefty: QUOTE]It's very true that these stories are one-sided. I've never *seen* one of these relationships start, so I have absolutely no idea what is involved. Some women who go searching for love in a resort town might not be the most emotionally-healthy people, but it doesn't mean they aren't genuinely looking for their soul mates. (They just aren't going about it in the smartest manner.)
There was a very interesting article in Vanity Fair a few months ago, about the culture surrounding the Dahab bombings. One piece of the article focused on a young resort worker who had travelled to Sharm, I think, to find work from his own rural town. It traced his hopes and his failures - bribing people just to get a busboy job in a restaurant, only to never make as much in one season as the bribe his family paid.
In Sharm, he met a Canadian woman with whom he maintained correspondence for months. He told the reporter he was truly in love with this woman, but after a while she stopped writing back. He was heartbroken. It was the first time I'd seen the man's side of the story. And while his relationship/feelings with the foreigner may not have started out on the purest of terms (he freely admitted to wanting to get out of Egypt because he couldn't find work), I think his feelings seemed real.
My point is I think most people have *issues,* but it doesn't mean they aren't looking for real love.
quote:Originally posted by Tream Lefty:
quote:Originally posted by Tigerlily:
quote:Originally posted by Tream Lefty: My point is I think most people have *issues,* but it doesn't mean they aren't looking for real love.
Why you are saying this? Many people falling in love during a vacation somewhere else and they don't all have 'issues'! Actually it's a well-known fact and not a phenomen. You are implementing that these people are not emotional stable and have maybe even other things going on.
Thanks god that I didn't open up this thread, I would feel hurted by your words. You know sometimes you can't explain things logically, especially when it comes to love, nothing is black or white. Miss Sharm's story is one of many and something like this would have probably never happened to you but people live life and not everyone is calculating the if's and the when's. Foreign women want to make these kind of relationships work even if they are crossing oceans, cultures, social boundries - and even if it's 'only' a resort worker they fell in love with in the first place.
You are taking this out of context; it doesn't relate to Miss Sharm's original question or even the fact she decided to stop seeing the guy she met. It is within the context of the discussion I'm having with Lazeez, so please take it as such.
And what you call *love,* I call *lust.* I cannot fathom that someone truly falls in love on a short vacation. A person might plant the seeds for a true love to grow, but that's a different story.
Good, one more time, as you say I took something "out of context".
For me your point sounds 'they are nutsy but they are no whor** either".
I get the impression that you are actually amused about these women who fall for the poor resort workers.
You know everything from the internet and you even read something in a magazine. But you know what? The best way to understand what these women go through you actually have to have experienced it yourself.
And please, don't tell me you were in love with your current husband on the first date, love has to develop.
Also I am sure you kissed some frogs before you finally kissed a prince.
Thanks god you are smarter than many other women who run after poor-paid resort workers.
And luckily there are happy stories of couples out but you won't read about them in Vanity fair.
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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Married 10/14/01, had I-485 Marriage interview in September 12, 2002 after filing the marriage peitition in January 2002.
Recently filed the I-751 in June 2004, waiting for conditional status to removed in order to file N-400.
Lots of restrictions, I am secondary sponsor as a wife. Must continue college and eventually finish my BS. Plus work in order to earn a minuim of a yearly salary.
Again I met my ex husband in person, not over the internet and not on vacation.
He was already in the USA and legal. He didn't need to get into the USA nor need me to stay in the USA.
Tigerweed, get over it.
Are you talking to me? Do you seriously believe this is me? I would think that there are some other people out there who can work with a search engine on Google too.
But I know it's your favorite subject of letting everyone know is that you found your Egyptian Pharaoh in the States and so on ......yawn yawn ..... nothing new I am afraid.
Get over with it, you are divorced, your husband is gone, your child is gone even much longer .....
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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Married 10/14/01, had I-485 Marriage interview in September 12, 2002 after filing the marriage peitition in January 2002.
Recently filed the I-751 in June 2004, waiting for conditional status to removed in order to file N-400.
Lots of restrictions, I am secondary sponsor as a wife. Must continue college and eventually finish my BS. Plus work in order to earn a minuim of a yearly salary.
Again I met my ex husband in person, not over the internet and not on vacation.
He was already in the USA and legal. He didn't need to get into the USA nor need me to stay in the USA.
Tigerweed, get over it.
Are you talking to me? Do you seriously believe this is me? I would think that there are some other people out there who can work with a search engine on Google too.
But I know it's your favorite subject of letting everyone know is that you found your Egyptian Pharaoh in the States and so on ......yawn yawn ..... nothing new I am afraid.
Get over with it, you are divorced, your husband is gone, your child is gone even much longer .....
And lying about your husband's career and education doesn't help you either.
Now for Tigerweed's insistance on her husband's "masters degree" in military leadership.
ampden-Sydney College used the occasion of its "War on Terrorism: 3 Years After" to unveil a new military leadership and national security studies certificate program. The program is designed for students who are interested in the historical, political and ethical dimensions of national security policy as well as the place and role of the military in American society.
Students may apply for admission to the program during the fall semester of their sophomore year. For more information, contact Dr. Simms at Morton Hall, room 319.
Students enrolled in the military leadership and national security studies program must complete one required course during each of their final three years at Hampden-Sydney College: * The Military and American Democracy (sophomore year) * Military History (junior year) * Leadership and Ethics (senior year)
As you can see on the right hand side there is a class of 2006, 2007 and 2008.
Tigerweed's husband has been deployed for a few years now and wouldn't be stateside in order to attend college.
Now about making up lies and then backing up other egy-board members who constantly lie..... Well they have a tendancy to back each other up continueously no matter how bamboozled their lies become. The truth doesn't matter to them because a lack thereof is what builds their cohesiveness!
Posts: 3168 | From: If you don't like it, don't look or read it! | Registered: Oct 2006
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Is it not possible now to go on a thread and find Samara_Anissa is slagging someone else off! Samara_Anissa get a life and let others on ES get on with theirs without interferring in it, when we want your opinion we will ask for it, but until any of us do please shut up!
Posts: 1244 | From: we come in peace | Registered: Nov 2006
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Don't worry, Miss Sharm, she doesn't know any details about my husband's profession. It's all up in her mind. Hence she doesn't even believe up until this day that actually US soldiers are down stationed in Sinai......
Sono, anything else to post in my matter? I am waiting for the big thing, something more exciting, please do so. You are allowed.
Oh and now back to the topic!
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Tigerlily: Don't worry, Miss Sharm, she doesn't know any details about my husband's profession. It's all up in her mind. Hence she doesn't even believe up until this day that actually US soldiers are down stationed in Sinai......
Sono, anything else to post in my matter? I am waiting for the big thing, something more exciting, please do so. You are allowed.
Oh and now back to the topic!
you lied about your husband's education, I am just shoving it in your face!
And the troops in Sinai are multinational not just US troops. That was cleared up on that thread.
Miss. SHarm if I don't outline the history of lies and buddy-buddy making for the sole purpose of a gaggle of females covering for each other new usernames will blindly believe whatever they are told.
Someone needs to point out the falicies!
In the meantime does anyone take interest, positive interest in Egypt as a nation and not a sex destination? Posts: 3168 | From: If you don't like it, don't look or read it! | Registered: Oct 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Tigerlily: For me your point sounds 'they are nutsy but they are no whor** either".
Well, you were absolutely wrong. I was saying their intentions were true (generally) even if they might be going about it the wrong way.
quote:Originally posted by Tigerlily: I get the impression that you are actually amused about these women who fall for the poor resort workers.
Couldn't be further from the truth. I've been there myself (a long distance disaster, but nothing to do with Egypt). But as always, you assume the worst.
quote:Originally posted by Tigerlily: You know everything from the internet and you even read something in a magazine. But you know what? The best way to understand what these women go through you actually have to have experienced it yourself.
See above.
quote:Originally posted by Tigerlily: And please, don't tell me you were in love with your current husband on the first date, love has to develop.
That's exactly what I said in my previous post. I can't fathom people thinking they fall in love immediately. It takes time and shared experiences.
This is why I'm doubting your reading comprehension skills recently.
quote:Originally posted by Tigerlily: Also I am sure you kissed some frogs before you finally kissed a prince.
Thanks god you are smarter than many other women who run after poor-paid resort workers.
See above. I've been there. That's why I worry about what some women might be going through.
When you don't fully understand a post, why don't you ask for some clarification, rather than immediately jumping to (generally incorrect) conclusions?
Posts: 8794 | From: 01-20-09 The End of an Error | Registered: Dec 2004
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You worry and call other women 'emotionally unstable'? Don't jump to conclusions of other people's mental state!
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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My great-grandparents fell in love immediately and were married all of their lives, I think there isn't one rule for all and definitely one person's experience of something doesn't mean that is how everyone else's experience will/should be. I have a cousin who met her husband while on vacation in Cabo San Lucas years ago and they're still happily married with 3 kids. Their relationship is MUCH better than most people I have seen who courted and dated for years. You just never know~
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Is it really so important to you all, getting to know who is the person behind the nickname?
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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quote:Originally posted by ?????: Is it really so important to you all, getting to know who is the person behind the nickname?
Because some of us, a think minority actually have this Egyptian/Westerner relationship in every aspect of our lives. Its not a online affair, a vacation romance; its a daily thing and will be a part of us for the rest of our lives.
I hate to use this type of analogy but....:
Think if it as you've lost a limb. You had your leg or arm amputated and you must get used to a prosthesis and go through rehabilitation.
Seriously a cross-cultural marriage when it happens just like a marriage in which the person who is the same faith and lives in your community is a massively life altering event.
Then you have some woman who claims she had the same life altering event but its a mole on her face. Yeah like how the pompous French Royals would powder their face and stick gems or metal stars on their face and call it a beauty mark!
So thats how I see it. Something that can be removed, washed off, costumes put away in the closet and pretend like it never happened versus having a limb removed.
Its irritating.
I ran across a few of these "vacation wives" in Alex during my last trip. I wasn't in tiptop condition and my jaw was throbbing. I seen the Orfi wife and her husband, trying their best to chat it up with a fellow American, my mother.
Yeah I was rude. But half way through the tour my sister in-law and brother in-law finally caught on to why it bothered me so much.
Finally after 3 hours, my Mother ran into this couple like 6 times she finally blurted out that the Orfi husband gave her the creeps and there is something wrong with him. The Orfi husband asked a number of "financial questions" and wanted to hook my mother up with his cousin. Somehow this didn't bother his American Orfi wife in the least. This a-hole wanted my mother to invest in his cousins business and see how "she liked him".
It made me sick.
After that point my in-laws and I did our best to build space between these "orfi" type young men and my mother. Loads of gigilo looking a-holes were trying to speak with my mother. They assumed that an older woman who appears to be financially comfortable would be interested. They assumed that since I was married to an Egyptian that I and my in-laws wouldn't take offense.
Not all Egyptian/Westerners see it the same way.
Posts: 3168 | From: If you don't like it, don't look or read it! | Registered: Oct 2006
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Do Egyptian men ever stand up to their family because they want to be with the love of their life?
I am asking because my guy and me are going through the issue of his family do not accept me even though they haven't met me yet! They want him to marry an arab girl because of traditional values, they say she will look after him and it won't cause any complications.
I understand that his family want to keep things in Egypt and want to impose their values and beliefs onto him, but it just seems that he won't stand up to them. I have told him that I feel used by him because he must have been aware of their beliefs when he met me and that he wouldn't be allowed to be in a relationship with me and marry. How long did he really think that he could keep up the pretence that everything was ok forget to mention that I would not be accepted by the family.
He has said that he has spoken to them and told them that it is his life but the family won't accept this. I am trying to see it from their point of view and do understand how they must be viewing me as a divorced/single parent with 2 children.
This week I have had many long conversations with my guy and he does not know what to do - he wants to be with me and make a life together, but also feels a lot of respect towards his family. He is now even considering leaving from Sharm el Sheikh to go to another town because he has memories of me and him being in Sharm together and being very, very happy. He has even considered leaving Egypt all together and going to live in another arabic country. I have told him that he is running away form the situation and he needs to confront it. I feel that I am in a no win situation with his family because they won't let him be with me, then if he decides to leave from Egypt they still won't like me because I have made him leave from his country. He says that he wants to be with me more than anything and that if he can't his family will have killed him. He also does not want to marry an arab girl as he says there will be no love or feeling there from him.
I could go on and on explaining the situation more to you all but I think that you have got the idea of it.
I am now giving him the space to think and reach his decision and can only wait and hope that he will contact me. This situation is causing me and him so much pain when we seem to have had so many dreams together.
Do you think that he will ever stand up to his family?
Do Egyptian men ever stand up to their family because they want to be with the love of their life?
I am asking because my guy and me are going through the issue of his family do not accept me even though they haven't met me yet! They want him to marry an arab girl because of traditional values, they say she will look after him and it won't cause any complications.
I understand that his family want to keep things in Egypt and want to impose their values and beliefs onto him, but it just seems that he won't stand up to them. I have told him that I feel used by him because he must have been aware of their beliefs when he met me and that he wouldn't be allowed to be in a relationship with me and marry. How long did he really think that he could keep up the pretence that everything was ok forget to mention that I would not be accepted by the family.
He has said that he has spoken to them and told them that it is his life but the family won't accept this. I am trying to see it from their point of view and do understand how they must be viewing me as a divorced/single parent with 2 children.
This week I have had many long conversations with my guy and he does not know what to do - he wants to be with me and make a life together, but also feels a lot of respect towards his family. He is now even considering leaving from Sharm el Sheikh to go to another town because he has memories of me and him being in Sharm together and being very, very happy. He has even considered leaving Egypt all together and going to live in another arabic country. I have told him that he is running away form the situation and he needs to confront it. I feel that I am in a no win situation with his family because they won't let him be with me, then if he decides to leave from Egypt they still won't like me because I have made him leave from his country. He says that he wants to be with me more than anything and that if he can't his family will have killed him. He also does not want to marry an arab girl as he says there will be no love or feeling there from him.
I could go on and on explaining the situation more to you all but I think that you have got the idea of it.
I am now giving him the space to think and reach his decision and can only wait and hope that he will contact me. This situation is causing me and him so much pain when we seem to have had so many dreams together.
Do you think that he will ever stand up to his family?
Amanda x
Hello Ms. Sharm
I was told about that site and It was interesting to go their and read what people think of us as Egyptian MAN and how bad we are? "That really aggravated me so much" My answer is: we are not all bad and also we are not all of us good. Same as all other European or western man they also have bad and good. But defiantly we are good in treating ladies. And that is the different. Dear any situation always have two side, so the best way always some times to get away from your side and tray to be in his side and see the relation with his eyes but to do that you have to know very good the Egyptian culture and how we think about, love, ladies and family and what that means for us? And if you mange to do that, you will get the answer you looking for and than all what you need to do just go for it. And your second inquiry about do the family prefers a western lady or an Arabic lady? Very simple if you ask any parents western or Egyptian they will always prefer a man or lady from same culture but that not means they will not accept the choice, they will but need some works and get their heart and after that they will be your parents for really. Love means sunshine, means respect, means care… means always have hope and just enjoy life and never let the sadness or hurt to get into your heart open your eyes and see the sunshine of life not the darkness of life, do not think we all looking for the green, blue, red what ever the passport color is….. Because the best color is green and that is the great Egypt passport. Tell me where you can find the moon shining on the great Nile? Except in Egypt so why any one will need any other passport?
Wish you all happen and really that you can make your dream come true….. Posts: 233 | From: Cairo | Registered: Dec 2006
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Do Egyptian men ever stand up to their family because they want to be with the love of their life?
I am asking because my guy and me are going through the issue of his family do not accept me even though they haven't met me yet! They want him to marry an arab girl because of traditional values, they say she will look after him and it won't cause any complications.
I understand that his family want to keep things in Egypt and want to impose their values and beliefs onto him, but it just seems that he won't stand up to them. I have told him that I feel used by him because he must have been aware of their beliefs when he met me and that he wouldn't be allowed to be in a relationship with me and marry. How long did he really think that he could keep up the pretence that everything was ok forget to mention that I would not be accepted by the family.
He has said that he has spoken to them and told them that it is his life but the family won't accept this. I am trying to see it from their point of view and do understand how they must be viewing me as a divorced/single parent with 2 children.
This week I have had many long conversations with my guy and he does not know what to do - he wants to be with me and make a life together, but also feels a lot of respect towards his family. He is now even considering leaving from Sharm el Sheikh to go to another town because he has memories of me and him being in Sharm together and being very, very happy. He has even considered leaving Egypt all together and going to live in another arabic country. I have told him that he is running away form the situation and he needs to confront it. I feel that I am in a no win situation with his family because they won't let him be with me, then if he decides to leave from Egypt they still won't like me because I have made him leave from his country. He says that he wants to be with me more than anything and that if he can't his family will have killed him. He also does not want to marry an arab girl as he says there will be no love or feeling there from him.
I could go on and on explaining the situation more to you all but I think that you have got the idea of it.
I am now giving him the space to think and reach his decision and can only wait and hope that he will contact me. This situation is causing me and him so much pain when we seem to have had so many dreams together.
Do you think that he will ever stand up to his family?
Amanda x
Hello Ms. Sharm
I was told about that site and It was interesting to go their and read what people think of us as Egyptian MAN and how bad we are? "That really aggravated me so much" My answer is: we are not all bad and also we are not all of us good. Same as all other European or western man they also have bad and good. But defiantly we are good in treating ladies. And that is the different. Dear any situation always have two side, so the best way always some times to get away from your side and tray to be in his side and see the relation with his eyes but to do that you have to know very good the Egyptian culture and how we think about, love, ladies and family and what that means for us? And if you mange to do that, you will get the answer you looking for and than all what you need to do just go for it. And your second inquiry about do the family prefers a western lady or an Arabic lady? Very simple if you ask any parents western or Egyptian they will always prefer a man or lady from same culture but that not means they will not accept the choice, they will but need some works and get their heart and after that they will be your parents for really. Love means sunshine, means respect, means care… means always have hope and just enjoy life and never let the sadness or hurt to get into your heart open your eyes and see the sunshine of life not the darkness of life, do not think we all looking for the green, blue, red what ever the passport color is….. Because the best color is green and that is the great Egypt passport. Tell me where you can find the moon shining on the great Nile? Except in Egypt so why any one will need any other passport?
Wish you all happen and really that you can make your dream come true…..
ahly, does the Egyptian husband have a responsibility to learn about her culture?
Posts: 3168 | From: If you don't like it, don't look or read it! | Registered: Oct 2006
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sure, it will never ever work unless both learn both culture and respect both culture
Posts: 233 | From: Cairo | Registered: Dec 2006
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I have never tried to disrespect Egyptian men or Egyptian women, it is just unfortunate that I have had a bad experience with an Egyptian guy who I met whilst I was on holiday. If you read my posts from before ahly you will see why I have come to the conclusion that I was never going to get the support and actions that I deserved from this guy. He has not only lied to me but also lied to his family about me. I know that it would be difficult for me to be accepted in Egypt due to my situation being divorced with 2 children but as we know until we actually meet a person then a judgement upon them should not be made. I have not done anything to this guy to to deserve to be treated badly and used by him. I am only pleased that I found out now before I gave him the opportunity for things to develop further between us. I would also like to point out that I did not go on holiday with the intention meeting and falling in love with an Egyptian guy, that was the last thing on my mind. I don't think that I need to travel all the way to Egypt to find someone to be with! Anyway I would just like to say to everyone on here who has sent me words of support that I really appreciate your kindness and it as helped me to get through this difficult time. I will come through this situation and I know in my heart that 2007 is going to be a good year for me and can't wait to spend the new year with a very special person.
Amanda x x
Posts: 1244 | From: we come in peace | Registered: Nov 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Miss Sharm: I have never tried to disrespect Egyptian men or Egyptian women, it is just unfortunate that I have had a bad experience with an Egyptian guy who I met whilst I was on holiday. If you read my posts from before ahly you will see why I have and why I have come to the conclusion that I was never going to get the support and actions that I deserved from him. He has not only lied to me but also lied to his family about me. I know that it would be difficult for me to be accepted in Egypt due to my situation being divorced with 2 children but as we know until we actually meet a person then a judgement upon them should not be made. I would also like to point out that I did not go on holiday with the intention meeting and falling in love with an Egyptian guy, that was the last thing on my mind. Anyway I would just like to say to everyone on here who has sent me words of support that I really appreciate your kindness and it as helped me to get through this difficult time. I will come through this situation and I know in my heart that 2007 is going to be a good year for me and can't wait to spend the new year with a very special person.
Amanda x x
How could anyone judge a prospective bride, in-law based on previous marital relationship and chilldren from that marital relationship?
Its inhumane!
Posts: 3168 | From: If you don't like it, don't look or read it! | Registered: Oct 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Miss Sharm: Samara_Anissa - Please explain yourself further!
Seriously there are a number of foreign female usernames who are divorced mothers.
They have posted that having children from a previous marriage isn't an obstacle. They have posted that their egy-guys have fallen in love with their children, even though they haven't met in person!
WHy are you different?
Posts: 3168 | From: If you don't like it, don't look or read it! | Registered: Oct 2006
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I never said that I was different or wanted to be treated differently by anybody. It is just that when I posted the question on ES asking if I would ever be accepted by his family that quite a few members said that it would be difficult because I was divorced and had children! Then others said that if he loved me that he would fight to be with me no matter what my situation was and he would explain all to his family. He has decided that he does not want to fight to be with me because that is too hard for him to do, he has chosen to please his family and will now eventually marry a traditional arab girl. To those divorced women on ES who have children from a previous marriage and are with an egy guy and have been accepted then I wish them all the best of luck and they are lucky that they have been accepted into the family. I don't really need to explain myself to you any further Samara_Anissa because this has nothing now to do with the original posting and I only posted yesterday to let everyone know on ES that I had made the decision to finish the relationship as I was not prepared to be lied to anymore and to be taken for the fool that he thought I was. Anyway I will have the last laugh because if it wasn't for me meeting the guy from Egypt in April I would not be in the happy situation that I am in now! Posts: 1244 | From: we come in peace | Registered: Nov 2006
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I will not be posting anymore now tonight as I have to go to bed to sleep because I have work in the morning! I am sure that you will continue to post nonsense though Samara_Anissa, believe me if any of it is directly aimed at me I will be back tomorrow to fight back at you because you know nothing about me or my life and I don't know what you think gives you the right to judge people on the few words that we write.
Posts: 1244 | From: we come in peace | Registered: Nov 2006
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It sounds like you are doing a lot better, I am happy for that. Don't let other people drag you down with their words. Their lives are unhappy and they want to spread this to others. I call these people the soul-suckers. Anyways it sounds like you have found someone else now and I wish you nothing but happiness! Sarah
Posts: 1879 | From: Going to Graceland | Registered: Nov 2006
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Samara- why u r juddging people without knowing them . Bec a woman was married before and has children then she will never marry again .wots this logic ?
A woman came from uk to egypt for a vacation and she met a stupid man and he lied to her now u r blaming her bec she has a white heart and she is kind bec she loved him !! come on samara ,she didnt work as a prostitue ( sorry miss sharm) she just loved a guy bec she is senstive and every woman needs a tender hands samara ,take it easy tiger Posts: 224 | From: egypt/cairo | Registered: Nov 2006
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Al Ahly, As always the medal has two sides, maybe you can try to step into HER shoes? I can imagine all the doubts women have, everybody knows the stories, and say for yourself: What kind of men are working in the Red Sea district? There are blacklists with horrible stories from women who lost everything... Instead of expecting to step in your shoes, maybe its better to try hers...
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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Just a quick word on those 'Black Lists' on the Net... Having lived on the Red Sea (mainly Hurghada) for 5 years solid (lately now going back and forth) I have had the (NOT) pleasure of knowing the female behind these.. (She started Kunstkamera on a Russian server, else it had been a crime in Egypt, nowadays she claims this has been 'taken over' by the Russian mafia who 'run those young men as a business for profit'(WTF????) and that they post some 'enemies' on there for fun; she then started the 2nd website, also on Russian server).
Knowing her (highly spiteful, bitter nature), her contemptous, belittling attitude towards all Egyptians, and knowing of the plus/minus 40 court cases she personally brought against various Egyptians due to some slight or supposed 'crime'(practically all lost... Naturally, she says that's due to bias, however, there are a LOT of foreigners who win their cases, if rightly brought), I personally take many of these black list cases with a pinch of salt - easy to write anything at all on the Net after all!!! Yes, some of those stories are absolutely true - I also happen to 'know' - many only by sight, some personally, some by reputation - most of the chaps listed, and yes, some of them ARE indeed very bad players/ liars out for personal gain. Semi-professionals, one could say, and here I always asked myself just HOW anyone can fall for these obvious sleazeballs...
However, there also happen to be cases of chaps who would not warrant being on such a list, but who have simply annoyed someone... In which case, ruining their reputation - possibly stopping them from being able to find jobs, even - is not a good or just thing at all. Not, of course, does such a listing allow for any kind of defense...
In any case, the female(s, there are 2 main ones) concerned are certainly quite brave, or just foolhardy, considering that I am not the only one by far who knows their real identity and their home address in Hurghada (including the security police, of course)- goes to show that Egyptians are not quite as bad as SHE daily states, after all, she's still there, happily posting away...
Just thought I mention that one ought not to take these sites as gospel truth, either, and try to be FAIR in one's judgment.... Bubble
Posts: 144 | From: Egypt/Europe | Registered: Nov 2006
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Bubbles, Think you`re bringing more confusion then clearness in this way. I`m not a frequent tourist-area-visitor, and the times that I really have been there, I thought the guys were absolutely clear in their meanings. BUT, I`m used to Egyptians, and a tourist doesn`t know... I can imagine the doubts, thats all...
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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Will help you if you have got no brains of your own and need SOMEONE else brains to lead you.
You can't trust the guy you're engaged to, fine, but you can trust another person who you have never seen before?!!
Posts: 1539 | Registered: Apr 2006
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In fact thats all, LaZeez. Women are laying their whole selves into the hands of a man they barely know, based on trust given by words.They don`t know a thing! Not about the man himself, not about his family, not about the country, the culture, nothing...
One payed € 4.500,-- for a sportresort-area to a man she has only seen the 2 weeks on holiday.(Egypt is cheap, but not THAT cheap;)) Bye,bye, money and bye,bye lover... Sometimes I have doubts about the braincapacity from that lady`s...
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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These kind of stories surface very occasionally in the British press too. Men exploit gullible women all over the world (and vice versa). Caveat emptor (buyer beware) might serve women better than posting on these websites.
Posts: 2953 | From: Slightly south of Azkaban. | Registered: Aug 2006
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I don`t know how these " psychological processes" are working. I really can`t imagine that anybody will trust a person who they have met on a holiday, during 2 weeks, and believe everything what is being told...
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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First of all, I do support you and I never meant to hurt you or even to bring bad days or bad memory back. And for sure if he lie to you, he never deserve even to think about him or even remember him. I apologize for me writing without reading all what you said? Because it was first time to me be their and also not quite sure how to read all? About the whole things. Nothing is wrong that you are divorce and have kids, normal Egyptian man "not the one at the red sea resort" and family will accept you and your kids and they will treat you as part of the family. Never look back love meant respect, means never lie, and mean never cheat, and mean never games. Just be happy and really look to the future special Xmas coming soon and New Year I hope the holydays spirit bring to your heart, your soul and your two angels all happiness. Yes go and enjoy 2007 with your new life. I hope one day you come back to Egypt and can see the true Egyptian and Egypt away from the bad apples "special the one at the red sea resort" With my deep respect wish you all happiness and marry Xmas for you and your angles.
Posts: 233 | From: Cairo | Registered: Dec 2006
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First of all I will never judge any person because it is not my right to do so, I can be their to listen and advise but never judge. Never and when I tray to advise I always but my self on both side situation and after that advise if I can and be honest doing that.
The problem I can see the majority are meeting Egyptian man at the red sea resort and that is the problems, the real problems because majority are coming from poor village and they are coming from very close community, means they leave I very hard restrict community with very old traditional life and rules. They may never saw a women feet's in their life and than they work at the resort where pretty European ladies laying on the beach "the become as a little kid in toy store before Xmas" there is million of tourist visit that sites so for them they learn the European style of just have fun and all goes away after the holidays. But never learn that he has to watch for people feelings and that not all are the same. And that is sad side because it leads to the situation where a lady got broken heart and bad reputation for us as Egyptian.
A small advice to all….. If an Egyptian man asks for you to pay for his cup of coffee, or ask for money, cloth, trip to meet you at your home and you pay all for him. Be sure 100% he is lier and playing a game. So stay away
We as Egyptian traditional raise to respect our self and we maintain our dignity and take care of family, friends and special ladies and the first rule; ladies never pay while they are with us as respect for her and also for our self, because that become disrespect for us as Egyptian man if she pay. "Sorry for the equal between man and women can be all but their staff men has to take care of her"
Posts: 233 | From: Cairo | Registered: Dec 2006
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AHLY- I appreciate wot u wrote ,you are perfect .God bless YOU.
I feel soo sorry about miss sharm and other women who were victims to egyptian men ,just using them and and benefit from them. Pls foreigners who are coming to egypt for a vacation or wot ever .Before loving an egyptian man ,just try first to know him better ,c if he is educated or not ,the way he thinks.Give your self a time to know each other.Better than regreting afterwards.There are a lot of good egyptian men ,well educated . most of the Foeigners when they come 2 egypt ,they go out wiz the worse egyptian men in Egypt ,why i dunno .Please think many times before wot u r gonna do .
I wish all guys r like ahly .
Posts: 224 | From: egypt/cairo | Registered: Nov 2006
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Thank you so much for your kind words, dear I am not prefect because there is no perfect man "please believe me if any man said he is perfect be sure he is lier " , I have my own mistakes but I am man enough to admit I am wrong and easy can say sorry. I hate any one that can hurt any one feeling and that really can make me so angry. Any way thank you a lot for your kind words. And I agree with you 100000% please tray to find all about the man before you are hocked with special from which part of Egypt he comes from "that show you what kinds of rules and traditional he was raise on" and his education level that can tell you if he really open minded and you both can respect each other culture and the most important compromise to make the boat goes for the future. Lombardo 47 wish you happy holidays and marry xmas
Posts: 233 | From: Cairo | Registered: Dec 2006
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Ahly, Maybe I already have written to much topics, but one of them contains exactly the same message. And when you read further then you know why I know;) I only wonder why you seem so touched by opinions about bad men? You don`t have to feel approached, you know who you are, what your intentions are, what`s good and what`s wrong...
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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i just may be sentsive beacuse i am proud egyptian and love my country to death and can not see myself away from my love egypt at all. and feel sad when any egyptian give bad reptution about egypt while we are not like that.. that all i never take the side of that bad men they play with ladies feeling for me they are near to be called a devil and really sad that they are egyptian came from same land that always give the light and civlization to the world years back. but bad apple every where?
Posts: 233 | From: Cairo | Registered: Dec 2006
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Yes, but as long as you`re a good apple, you don`t have to care. Think that everybody knows about good and bad...
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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AHLY- I know that no body is 100 percent good .Every1 makes mistakes .but there big mistakes and small ones .To hurt a girl and take from here money and use her body and then dump her,This is awful . I am really sad that some egyptian men do this and by these people ,foerigners will hate coming back or deal with egyptians.I am egyptian 2 and i love egypt soooooooooo much ,however when i hear these stories i get mad and ask my self why?these poeple are doing this. Again thx man for your message ,and wish you the best .take care brother
Posts: 224 | From: egypt/cairo | Registered: Nov 2006
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quote:Originally posted by ?????: Yes, but as long as you`re a good apple, you don`t have to care. Think that everybody knows about good and bad...
He cares because he's my bf and I've talked to him about what I've read on this board. Listening to all of the negativity here made me question things and thank God he is patient & understanding when I have questions. I told him about Lombardo and how I enjoyed reading his posts because he appeared to be a good young man with his act together.
As Ahly said, there are good men and bad men in every single country, race, culture, you name it. There are many men who will say or do anything just to get what they want from you. It's up to you to find that diamond just like it's up to them to find a diamond among us. I can tell you there are just as many women out there that use the heck out of men and throw them away like yesterday's trash so why don't we quit the "Egyptian" men bashing altogether? If you go to the resort areas, what do you expect to find? People go there to party and have a good time (hello????).
I had to agree with Lombardo on what he said when someone started questioning why he wanted to go out with European women (was it for a passport, money). We all have our preferences in who we go out with. Some like their men tall, short, skinny, dark, light, blonde. . .the list goes on. I know way too many American white females that prefer to date only black men but no one finds that odd. Go on any military base and see how many black men are married to white females (whether they be German, British, US, whatever). It has to do with personal choice and Lombardo has a preference for European women. . .so what? I wish I had a daughter because I'd set you up with her, Lombardo. :-)
I got lucky and found a good man. . .and guess what? He just happens to be Egyptian, too! Posts: 21 | Registered: May 2006
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His Angel , Thx for your nice words about me ,i would be the happeist man in the world if i marry your daughter ,you know why ,bec you am sure she will be good like her mother . Wish you the best with your husband and take care of each other
Posts: 224 | From: egypt/cairo | Registered: Nov 2006
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The good are dupated by the behaviour of the bad, as always. You seemed to have found a good one, thank God for him. Wish you all the luck in the world. BTW, I`m not a white female American woman.I thought my English was bad enough to show this!!!
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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Sorry if I made things more confusing - I really just meant the same thing you did, the important thing is to get to know the other person as best one can, then inform onself about cultural and religious norms, expectations, the way of life, and then take it from there.
I mentioned the history behind the black lists cause you did, and because I really feel these are NOT fair - nor are they always right... And I have seen one girl on a board saying stuff like 'Oh, my guy is not on any list, so he is okay' - what carp, as if one could believe these sites.. Not everyone on them is bad, and not everyone bad is on them, simple as that!!!
But, you see - for you nice Egyptian men who wonder how this happens - it's real easy to fall in love sooo quick while on holiday... As you yourselves will know, Egyptians just ARE the most romantic people in the world (genuinely). Arabs also are 'people of the word', look at the wonderful poetry or some of the old love songs - you melt away at the language and grown women disolve in tears, right??? Plus the highly idealistic, sometimes even overdrawn image of 'true love' that every Egyptian, male or female, harbours in his heart - that's what he wants.... (Even if it means closing one's eyes a little to reality, there is always hope it will become like that later...).
Now for him it may be difficult to attain that goal, if nothing else he will need to work for many years yet to be able to afford a wife - plus he might not be too keen on the ones his family brings to choose from. So then he comes from the country to work, as innoccent - and usually still God-fearing and well behaved - as a newborn, and he now is faced with all these topless, chatting, laughing, smiling women who easily talk with him or even go for a drink, but in any case, THEY may start the conversation, they look full in his face and treat him 'normal' and fully grown...
In his job he also shares his room with at least 3 or 4 other young guys, one of whom may have a Western girlfriend or wife - and he hears of more for whom this works, plus sees many such couples around. (And he will see a couple of guys who did REAL WELL out of such a relationship, they have great clothes, the newest mobile, and even their own business suddenly... If he is weak of character, and forgets all that he learned at home, he WILL now start to want that, too, is it a wonder???).
(Personal note: I saw many of these young men, how they are nice, decent and honest when they arrive, and how they may be - the weak ones - after a couple of years. It's not bad intentions, it's bad examples, a whole lot of them, all that drinking, sex, el hashish, you know what goes on there...).
Now for the women... Ladies from the West are simply NOT used to Arabic poetry, to all the flowery, flattering compliments, to the endearing language - plus you guys are generally speaking good-looking, yes - so they are bowled over in no time at all. No fat surprise, Western men are just very different in behaviour and faaar more sparing with their compliments, less ardent and on the whole less passionate..
Next, Egy guys will propose serious business real fast - but this is the first sad misunderstanding. Because in the West men often take YEARS to 'commit' to a woman, one has to drag them screaming to get married , near enough - Egyptians work the opposite there, they talk of marriage after 3 days - BUT, only because in your culture there is no 'living together' or even (open) sex before marriage, marrage is the honourable thing... Plus one DOES get engaged before being allowed to even date a girl, so it has a different meaning as in the West. And really, when wanting to be with someone for a holiday or so, marriage is really the ONLY way.
So they propose, cause that is how it is done and now one can see each other and stay together - and they have not yet thought for one second that the lady may not like living an Egyptian country life, in the house, not talking to men, no discos, no bikinis, with the family, sitting with the women while he is out etc etc. (So they may still be quite serious).
And the lady here thinks, wow, he is really, really sooooo in love, he wants me forever - and our time together is short, soon I am going home, huuh, huuuuh, let's get on with it while we can - and so they do, she goes home and dreams of balmy starry nights, palm trees and romantic words he said...
That's the beginning of such a thing, and it most often is still honest on both sides...
Posts: 144 | From: Egypt/Europe | Registered: Nov 2006
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They live one here, one there, talk, sms, chat, and she comes again and again.. They got to know each other better, and this is where difficulties may appear - they find out they do not agree on fundamental points for later life together, there are major differences..
(So he may get cold feet now, but the lady is hanging in there, because that's what we DO, when we love, we looooove, right???).
Such as, the family may be up in arms at the thought of a European wife, especially non-Muslim, especially older, especially divorced - and while it is easy for him to say (and mean it) he will get them round, and he can handle that, the reality - which he does not want to see - is totally different...
The family may just not, not ever, not in a life time, agree (depends on how traditional they are, and how seriously they have already negotiated for a wife for him, with or without his knowledge) - in which case, there is NOTHING, nothing, nothing the poor guy can do. Never ever underestimate the absolute power of the Egyptian family, because it is just that - absolute, total, and the family verdict has to be followed EVEN by all grown men. The end.
It may well be, dear Ms Sharm, that this is what happened in your case - your guy may well have loved you and not taken advantage of you, he may have sincerely hoped that one day this will work - but either way, this does not help you none, because if this is the family's decree, no European (divorcee) as a wife, then that's that.
You might as well ask him to cut off both his legs and arms, too, than to go against the family - IMPOOSSIBLE!!!!!!!!! And even if he DID, you would never be happy - sooner or later he would hate you for it, make your lives miserable, and then return home to repent and make it up..
I am very glad for you that you seem to be feeling somewhat better already, or at least are fully resolved now to let it go. It will still hurt for a long while, and I am very sorry for that - in particular if you ask yourself why, why, why - well, tell you what, living in Egypt I have learned very well that there are a number of things which I cannot follow or will never understand - but that doesn't matter, what matters is THEY JUST ARE.
Nothing to be done other than accepting it, sad as it is. Really, that is the way it is - no way can he go against the family, no way will you be able to really truly understand that fully (don't say 'They haven't met me', I know, but irrelevant under the circumstances), you just have to take it for what it is, an imposible hurdle sadly meaning the end...
Sometimes in life love isn't enough, like when dealing with such totally different attitudes and cultures - there are points where these won't ever meet, whether this is regrettable or not. Again, I am very sorry for your situation - but trust me, you are much better off not pondering why's or could have been's, just hang on to the happy memories and let it go... You WILL feel better, and at peace, Insha'Allah, very soon!!!!
My bestest wishes to you, love, Bubble
Posts: 144 | From: Egypt/Europe | Registered: Nov 2006
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PS. Yes, there are SOME guys who are really into it for the money (and sex). Passports not so often, Egyptians love their country way too much, like you gentlemen - but money, that is great, of course. I shall write on these hunter-types later, now I am all typed out...
Posts: 144 | From: Egypt/Europe | Registered: Nov 2006
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That's exactly what I said in my previous post. I can't fathom people thinking they fall in love immediately. It takes time and shared experiences. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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