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Lol, well in egypt everybody is judged by anything except their own actions, you're judged by your brothers/sisters/parents/degree/car/clothes/etc. I find very few here are judged by their individual actions alone. Coming from America, we come from a very individualistic society, here it is exactly backwards to that ....
I also have been thinking this was ridiculous, and I also ignored the Egyptian way of thinking in this. But, it was a mistake. We can`t live like an individual person in a family/clan society.
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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Hello Everyone, and thank you taking part of the NET WORLD..our new ways of communication, meeting, and just sharing our emotions, thoughts, and maybe even creat relationships. My name is John and I am the developer and creater behind www.MyArabPlace.com. I hope everyone is enjoying the site, and please feel free to message me regarding anything, question, concerns or even ideas..they are all welcome.
quote:Originally posted by MyArabPlace: Hello Everyone, and thank you taking part of the NET WORLD..our new ways of communication, meeting, and just sharing our emotions, thoughts, and maybe even creat relationships. My name is John and I am the developer and creater behind www.MyArabPlace.com. I hope everyone is enjoying the site, and please feel free to message me regarding anything, question, concerns or even ideas..they are all welcome.
quote:Originally posted by amrssnowangel: Newcomer, my posting a new thread in a different forum here in ES was not an invitation for more "advice" but a classified looking for alternative accomodations. Your response in THAT thread had NOTHING to do with answering my call for accomodations. Just as THIS thread WASNT asking for advice, but wanting to share good news. I NEVER has for advice about my own relationship Snoozin. I have not read posts on here for over a year. I was a MEMBER but rarely came... READ my original post please, no where was I seeking advice, or complaining that my man was using me, or any of that stuff.
amrssnowangel, it appears that you didn't notice your quote that I copied at the end of my post on this thread, here it is again:
quote:Originally posted by amrssnowangel: Just which cultural differences do you THINK Im not getting???
[/QB][/QUOTE]
You did ask members on this forum which cultural differences we thought you didn't get - admittedly not in your opening post, but it did come up in the course of the discussion - and so I gave you a possible example on the other thread. You don't stop being you because you post in different forum.
I'm sorry that you didn't appreciate the answer to your question being given somewhere else; but by posting personal information on ES you are inviting feedback, and, in the same way that you aren't dictated to as to what threads can you open here, you also can't specify what type of responses people are allowed to give and where they must give them.
Posts: 4576 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Snoozin - Bokra Fil Mish Mish:
quote:Originally posted by amrssnowangel: I NEVER has for advice about my own relationship Snoozin.
Just for the record, *I* never attacked you, OK?
I'm sorry I wasn't more precise in my wording. My response was to Recif, and should be taken in that context only. She was stating that a daughter of a woman in a polygynous marriage might somehow be ashamed to tell her European friends about her mother's relationship. And Recif was saying (it seems) that *I* personally think a younger Egyptian man should be ashamed of an older wife. I've never said this anywhere, to my knowledge. And therefore, since I don't think the girl should be criticized, I should think twice before criticizing you or him for your choices. But I don't think I ever did.
What I meant in my response to Recif is that these two situations are not analogous, in my view. One is an adult talking about her own choices in life, the other is a child talking about her parents' choices in life.
That's all.
quote:Originally posted by Snoozin - Bokra Fil Mish Mish:
quote:Originally posted by Récif corallien: Just as you imagine all Egyptian young guys might be ashamed of their older wives, maybe her daughter would be ashamed to tell people her mother is a second wife if she went to another culture.
Uh, where exactly did I say that???? I think people need to take into consideration another person's actions within the context of their native culture. Period. Each of us will ultimately choose our own paths. If we choose an unusual path, then I hope we each feel confident enough in that decision to not crumble when people get snippy on a message board.
quote:Originally posted by Récif corallien: I wonder what advice you would give her daughter? Would it be as harsh as tha comments you read on this site?
I doubt it.
There is a *huge* difference between a girl asking advice about what her parents might do/have done, vs. a woman asking advice about her own relationship and her own actions, don't you think?
This was the reply I gave to your post Snoozin.
exactly.
so for people here to judge a person , who they have never met and assume she is old, ugly and fat, stupid and not living in the real world is, just because she is marrying an egyptian younger than her is, equally small minded.
The rest of my reply was not directed at you. The use of the word YOU meant everyone, I had separated it by a new paragraph, I was wrong, I should have put. "And the following reply in no way represents my thoughts on Snoozin who might assume it does but it doesn't so I will make that clear here before continuing".
and if you had read to the bottom you would have seen that I said this was NOT a personal attack on you.
akshar " Well there you are wrong again, we have a constant stream of tourists through our lives and without exception people have been supportive of my choice."
?????
"You know they will be friendly in your face, but behind your back they will talk bad about you. "
I'm sure they are to your face, that is.
Posts: 586 | From: Styx | Registered: Dec 2006
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Tourists are just that. They are "peaking" at the upper level of a culture. They are there to eat exotic foods, listen to the unique beat of music and to see sights that are shown in the tour guides. They are not sent to eat with a regular family that can not afford a flat and meat. They are not sleeping in beds that substitute as divans during the day.
I was a web tourist the first time I visited this web site. So if I had never come back, I would only have impressions I gleaned from individual postings. I do not HOT web cam, I do not try to be rude in anyway, and I try very hard not to judge.
I think a wonderful response would have been I hope you are happy in the future. I have seen and heard about scams and hope you have considered that this is always a possibility.You could have gone on to list examples of them and then left it at that.
Instead we are going through a you said, she said, I said and now I am lost about why any of it needed to be said.
I plan to be a success story. Don't we all. This is not indicative of one culture or race. We are born with the desire to succeed.
Please encourage others to be positive and careful. Rational comments and not rude or obscene comments will leave a better impression and create an atmosphere where safey, common sense and future happiness be discussed with smiles and love.
Not all of us are in your "inner circle". But many of us still have a smidgen of our brain left, what has not died of old age that is.
Posts: 156 | From: USA | Registered: May 2007
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You're post is very good. I sometimes feel the replies here are issued with superiority and a sense of smugness. They're all part of a private members club, which ofcourse you cant possibly join! Why is it so difficult just to be nice without the personal insults. Some people are reasoned with they're replies, others just seem to say it'll never work, while clapping they're hands! Well we can make our own decisions. Most of us didn't go out to meet an Egyptian guy, nevermind one that is younger, but it happens and as long as you are aware of the pitfalls, then that is our choice.
Posts: 4476 | From: Scotland | Registered: Mar 2006
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People come here looking for answers because they think that people on a forum about Egypt will have more insight and information about Egypt than they may have. They come to learn, share ideas, and hear other people's stories and opinions. The trouble is that if people don't say just what they want to hear, in the way they want to hear it being said some of them get upset.
If we coat our opinions with sugar and pat people on the back for their unusual life choices, they come back later and complain that we didn't warn them.
We are not an "inner circle", we are a bunch of people from all over the world, with a very wide range of personal experiences, many of which are related to Egypt. Some of us have been on the forum for a while sharing our opinions, views, and knowledge, so it may seem as if we know each other, but very few of us do in real life.
Nobody here is making anyone do anything, they are just giving a range of ideas and views, and in the end of course it is your choice to go ahead and decide what to do with your life, but if you consider the things that have been said here, in amongst all the things you already know, then hopefully you will make wiser choices.
Posts: 4576 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2002
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quote:Originally posted by shahrzaad: I think a wonderful response would have been I hope you are happy in the future. I have seen and heard about scams and hope you have considered that this is always a possibility.You could have gone on to list examples of them and then left it at that.
Please encourage others to be positive and careful. Rational comments and not rude or obscene comments will leave a better impression and create an atmosphere where safey, common sense and future happiness be discussed with smiles and love.
Not all of us are in your "inner circle". But many of us still have a smidgen of our brain left, what has not died of old age that is.
Forums are discussion groups if you post then its up for discussion. If we followed your forumla then every thread would be very short and little would come out of it. Threads go off at tangents, and people agree or disagree, that is what happens in a real life discussion or on a forum. I don't see anything posted here that was at particularly negative or rude. Most was well meaning coments based on cultural knowledge & personal experience.
Had in fact certain other members of ES still be around then you would understand the meaning of rude. There is certainly not a clique here that gang up but as in real life, people to get to know each other when they share experiences, but members come and go and you are very welcome to stay and contibute just like anyone else. Just don't always expect people to agree with you.
Posts: 3809 | From: Paradise | Registered: Mar 2003
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What personal experience ??? You are married to a younger Egyptian man? You are older? And how do you prove you have this tremendous knowledge and experience? I find this very amazing that so many proclaim experience. Well, I have experience too and I say that you get farther with reason than with a hammer.
Posts: 156 | From: USA | Registered: May 2007
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plus, you know your with a man who is waaay too young for you if he needs to ask mommy and daddy first. i was 18 when i married my 19 yr old ex and he TOLD his parents, not ASKED them.
Posts: 229 | From: florida | Registered: Apr 2007
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quote:Originally posted by amrssnowangel: Sorry Snoozin if I misunderstood.
No need to be sorry --- *I* wasn't clear.
You know, I think of ES as being somewhat like the practice of medicine. Doctors have to deal in statistical averages to help them make a diagnosis. People here deal with averages, too, although of course not in any precise sense. I do believe people who have lived in Egypt have seen enough scam marriages to make them cynical about them. It's advice worth taking into consideration, although ultimately only you know *your* relationship.
Trust me, I posted about my relationship when I first joined too, and got a lot of heat. "Watch out, he probably has a wife back in Egypt." "You'll never be accepted because you are not the good Egyptian wife, you're American."
And so on.
I found some of the information very helpful. I didn't know *anything* about Egypt before I met my husband. I vaguely knew about second wives in Islamic culture, that was it. Who wouldn't want to make an informed decision about their potential spouse? Of course, a lot of the information was irrelevant to my situation.
Anyway, I stopped posting in great detail just because of what you are experiencing -- lots of criticism. My situation is not traditional, neither in Egyptian culture nor for this particular forum. We've been together for a little more than three years and they've been incredibly happy and enriching in many ways I never considered. And very tough when cultural differences arise (which really isn't very often, but sometimes feels like a nuclear bomb has dropped). And take into account I'm the step-parent to his kids, including a profoundly autistic boy who's entering his teen years. It hasn't been easy in that regard, but I've learned so much.
So of course, ultimately in the end you decide what's best for you. I just wanted to say that even though the criticism here can be harsh, it can have its merits and truths within the words. Cultural relativism is real, IMO. And I am one of those who believes in having as much info as possible before making huge life changes.
I don't think anyone here wishes your relationship would fail. I just think they want to give fair warning that it might be a difficult road ahead.
Posts: 8794 | From: 01-20-09 The End of an Error | Registered: Dec 2004
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So sad, desperate and in urgent need of counselling isn't being rude or personal! In any language I think you'll find it is.
Posts: 4476 | From: Scotland | Registered: Mar 2006
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Sorry Young at heart but you were the one that introduced 'sad and desperate 'to the thread on the assumption that was what people were saying when they were not. I can't find anyone saying counselling was needed. People are being way too sensitive here. I don't understand why its such a problem to acept people are free to express thier views. If you are happy ith your relationship and feel secure in it then why is there a problem. We each have to live our own lives and face our own demons. This is just a forum and far worse comments have been thrown around in the past.
Posts: 3809 | From: Paradise | Registered: Mar 2003
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Actually you're wrong Penny I said I wasn't sad and desperate in reply to someone that previously said I was. On page 2 it is stated I need counselling. Ofcourse people are entitled to express they're views, but my point is why the personal comments in a general discussion. I'm not being sensitive and yes I've seen some bad treatment of people here. I'm saying there is no need for it. Giving my opinion as I keep getting told is allowed. I have read this forum for over 2 years and have gained a lot of knowledge from it for which I'm grateful to ES posters. Opinions are fine, insults are not.
Posts: 4476 | From: Scotland | Registered: Mar 2006
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YAT nobody called you sad & desperate, not the way I read it, maybe you read it different but it doesn't matter. If you are secure in your relationship it should be water off a ducks back anything that that is said on here. If you have ben reading here the last 2 years then you have to admit this thread is mild to what went around in the past. Hope things go well for you. I honestly don't see anyone in this thread that those words apply to. It was just discussion.
Posts: 3809 | From: Paradise | Registered: Mar 2003
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Penny what you don't see is if people insult members personally and these members retaliate back, it ends up in a catfight and the topic under discussion is lost. Yes it was mild but you have to admit these things can escalate. I don't feel the need to involve in it myself, but others will, then where is your open discussion?
Posts: 4476 | From: Scotland | Registered: Mar 2006
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Believe me Penny I have a thick skin, my ex has thrown every nasty word and insult to me known to man! so my skin is thick too. As they say sticks and stones will break my bones but words will never hurt me. All the best to you too.
Posts: 4476 | From: Scotland | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers:
quote:Originally posted by MyArabPlace: Hello Everyone, and thank you taking part of the NET WORLD..our new ways of communication, meeting, and just sharing our emotions, thoughts, and maybe even creat relationships. My name is John and I am the developer and creater behind www.MyArabPlace.com. I hope everyone is enjoying the site, and please feel free to message me regarding anything, question, concerns or even ideas..they are all welcome.
that was random.
That was a free ride Posts: 1339 | From: Om Leito | Registered: Aug 2006
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Snoozin...you are so right. Information is important and we each have to understand that each person has had a different experience to bring to the table and insight. Some can be rude in it though and in some cases the same thing can be said with a bit more tact..not sugar coated...just tactfully and in a more positive manner. Im sorry you also had the criticism. I learned MY lesson. LOL. You know, the cultural differences DID play a big role in the beginning. Alot of it has been resolved..and i know alot will still come up. The nice thing is that we've had enough issues come up and we've delt with them successfully (meaning to a mutal resolution we can both be happy with). Our ability to reason and communicate through these times is what a good marriage is built on partially. The second wife thing...oh I know about this. And about families that encourage their sons to behave in certain ways so they can gain money and visas as well from a well conned American woman. But most of these who have a hidden agenda come with red flags all around them. I've met some prior to my guy. I can see the difference. When one wants to know how fast we can get that visa...FLAG...when dad is asking about visa information for the son from his friends..FLAG...when man says in first 3 days of meeting, I want to marry you, you are my everything...FLAG...when he asks to borrow money..FLAG...and so on. Sometimes it comes in the smallest of ways...and culturally I know some that run with friends half the night after a day of working and spend less time with their "love interest" than with friends. I've seen alot of FLAGS out there.
I have to say my last trip was so funny. PM me if u want the story. I dread the idea of bringing it up here..Im sure it will draw more critisim...and its really just too funny.
MISS JAMBI: You know..I value any man that asks his parents permission about future brides. Not only is he showing respect...but he is honoring them and as long as he lives at home he falls under their rules. A good Muslim man will want to be respectful to his parents. And it really depends on the family to and how he was raised. I STILL asked my parents for their blessing in this and Im 42. The Prophet Mohamed (pbuh) says in his hadiths that one of the worst sins is to not obey your parents. Sorry, I know for many this is a hard concept when you are older, and all grown up.
Posts: 100 | From: Fredericksburg, VA, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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Actually we have all been successful. Maybe not in the prescribed way but in different ways. This forum is important source of information. Sometimes it comes across as a hornets nest that has been set into motion by a random word.
There are lovely people here and I am sure all of you are well meaning. But if we stick to what is our opinion and what is fact it makes it easier for those visiting.
I came seeking facts. If you don't have the facts say so. Fortunately, I have had some success and that is why I am posting it here. The long term "success" will be determined later as I take what I learned and implement it.
Thank you for being here.
Posts: 156 | From: USA | Registered: May 2007
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All the best to you Shahrzaad, Things will work out for you I'm sure. Patience is a virtue as they say! We should all try to help each other in anyway we can. Our common link at the end of the day is Egypt in what ever form!
Posts: 4476 | From: Scotland | Registered: Mar 2006
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Lady, you are OFF your rocker to think that a 25 year old child is in love with you and wants to marry you. You could be his mother for God's sake. What do you think he sees in you? I'm thinkin he sees some used goods that can help him get a greencard. Keep on keepin' on!
Posts: 39 | From: New York | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote:Originally posted by I heart Egypt: Lady, you are OFF your rocker to think that a 25 year old child is in love with you and wants to marry you. You could be his mother for God's sake. What do you think he sees in you? I'm thinkin he sees some used goods that can help him get a greencard. Keep on keepin' on!
Your just jealous. So becasue Im older, I have nothing to offer a younger man? I think he sees alot in me. I have a lot to offer. Used goods??? Hardly...experienced maybe...and just to update all here....He has asked me to move THERE with him...for him to take a job THERE and move with him...wheres' your greencard theory now? I've since talked to his mother on the phone regularly and have formed a great relationship with her. Just because we waited to say much to them...doesn't mean its always a red flag...his family is more traditional..."dating" isn't accepted...my visiting in his home is not accepted...that was why we took care early in our relationship...
But for those that want to know..or care...all is great...Im not stupid or crazy...I know the flags...and we dont have them.
Posts: 100 | From: Fredericksburg, VA, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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You will move to Egypt and marry him? In which area do you think of residing?
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by I heart Egypt: Lady, you are OFF your rocker to think that a 25 year old child is in love with you and wants to marry you. You could be his mother for God's sake. What do you think he sees in you? I'm thinkin he sees some used goods that can help him get a greencard. Keep on keepin' on!
Your just jealous. So becasue Im older, I have nothing to offer a younger man? I think he sees alot in me. I have a lot to offer. Used goods??? Hardly...experienced maybe...and just to update all here....He has asked me to move THERE with him...for him to take a job THERE and move with him...wheres' your greencard theory now? I've since talked to his mother on the phone regularly and have formed a great relationship with her. Just because we waited to say much to them...doesn't mean its always a red flag...his family is more traditional..."dating" isn't accepted...my visiting in his home is not accepted...that was why we took care early in our relationship...
But for those that want to know..or care...all is great...Im not stupid or crazy...I know the flags...and we dont have them.
His mother speaks English?
Posts: 1455 | From: debtville | Registered: Dec 2007
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He lives close to the Maadi area...so we'd stay in that area IF I made the final decision to move...The idea was that he offered. He loves Egypt..as do I.
His mother does not speak english..why does she have to when I know enough arabic?
Posts: 100 | From: Fredericksburg, VA, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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Some people are right here angel and alot of young man/older woman relationships don't work for one reason or another. Only you live it, not anyone of us here, so only you know what is right. What i would say is go with your gut instincts - it never fails but you have listen to them HONESTLY.
I wish you all the happiness. Posts: 895 | Registered: Sep 2007
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Much happiness to you amrssnowangel if it feels good do it girl. Life is to dam short to think it's to late. Just like young at heart said we don't want to sit back and think what if's...we won't know unless we give it a shot....If it is for a moment in time at least us good old girls will die with a smile on our face and thinking hahaha I did it all. Wheeeeeeeee what a rush!!!! Maybe I will ask my kids to bury me with my ass turned up so every one that thought I was a fool can kiss it hahahahah at least this fool knew how to live regardless of the thoughts of others! No matter what, we must live out our life to its fullest for ourselves and no one else Sogo for itttttttttt Angel and be happy no matter where u live .............
Posts: 446 | From: USA | Registered: Dec 2006
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Well, Im going for it. We are waiting to here when our K1 interview is. So we are hoping he will be HERE soon. My point about moving there was that he ASKED and was WILLING and we gave it serious consideration. I shared that in response to those that suggest its all for green card only. Not ALL want to leave Egypt. I do know of horror stories...but, I know my guy. 4 years, 5 visits later...we are stronger then ever. It can work, and the original post was about success....we ARE being successful..and Im still so happy we handled his parents the way we did. Not everyone will "approve". But I dont need their approval...or their validation. I know what I have is good...
Posts: 100 | From: Fredericksburg, VA, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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