Topic: IAM population, Natufians, Proto-Semitic, North African Component
Tazarah
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posted
^ I asked him that, and I also specifically asked him about hg J supposedly coming to the Levant from Mesopotamia during the time period of the Abraham story.
The point is that I did not move any goalpost or create any strawmen because I've been literally wording my comments the same way since day one.
You are a lying idiot who probably trolls this topic so hard because you yourself are a J carrier.
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posted
I don't even subscribe to Judaism, much less a J carrying female
and I repulsed by any obsolete tribal custom that gives God-preferred status to a person just by birth
My God is not your God
quote:Originally posted by Tazarah:
The point is that I did not move any goalpost or create any strawmen because I've been literally wording my comments the same way since day one.
Kura-Araxes is before Abraham, so yes, you have been promoting an irrelevant straw man from the start
Kura-Araxes hypothetically spread J and then Abraham hypothetically also spread J after them (No contradictions) and since that time other people have continued to spread J (No contradictions)
Let that sink in
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Tazarah
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^ First of all, you just got caught lying on me AGAIN and falsely accusing me of moving the goalpost because you don't know how else to handle this intellectual beatdown.
Secondly, you are a J-carrying man pretending to be something you are not. You are not a woman.
It doesn't matter if the Kura-Araxes/Hurrians predate Abraham you dunce, I already know that and it's irrelevant because Abraham did not descend from them nor was he related to them. That's the point.
Repeatedly pointing out that they were before Abraham is the actual strawman because I never said they weren't before him, I've repeatedly acknowledged that they were before him -- the argument is that he did not descend from them (hg J).
You just claimed in your other comment that hg J could have possibly been brought to the Levant/Mesopotamia during the relevant time period by XYZ civilization but provided zero sources to substantiate any other civilizations bringing hg J there.
All the evidence shows it was Kura-Araxes/Hurrians who brought J to the Levant/Mesopotamia and they were not related to Abraham or the Hebrews.
quote: While Hurrians are not mentioned by that name in the Bible, scholars suggest they had contact with the Israelites during the second millennium BC. When Abraham stayed in Haran of northwest Mesopotamia, he was living in the major region of Hurrian influence. Some scholars also suggest Hurrians lived in Canaan before and during the Israelite period.
You and djehuti keep running into a brick wall and I'm sure you are willing to endlessly try to convince me to accept your laughable attempts at gaslighting but I never will so at this point we should all just agree to disagree.
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quote:Originally posted by Tazarah: if Kura-Araxes/Hurrians predates Abraham you dunce, I already know that and it's irrelevant because Abraham did not descend from them nor was he related to them. That's the point...
I've repeatedly acknowledged that they were before him
The problem is there is no way to know that
So just saying that over and over is meaningless
You can't prove it
I'm not saying this possibly mythological person was definitely J I'm saying he might have been because J was all over the region BEFORE him That is solid logic Stop straw-dolling
quote:Originally posted by Tazarah:
You just claimed in your other comment that hg J could have possibly been brought to the Levant/Mesopotamia during the relevant time period by XYZ civilization but provided zero sources to substantiate any other civilizations bringing hg J there.
All the evidence shows it was Kura-Araxes/Hurrians who brought J to the Levant
So what if it was Kura-Araxes? That's before Abraham so J was spread before Abraham then why do you keep bringing it up ?
quote:Originally posted by Tazarah:
and they were not related to Abraham or the Hebrews.
You are phrasing the thought chronologically backwards
If Kura-Araxes is first then your trying to say
"and Abraham or the Hebrews were not related to Kura-Araxes"
So don't try to pull fast one by switching that around
Regardless you have the same problem you can't prove they were not both J carriers, Kura-Araxes and the Israelites And religion or custom or language can be changed without changing someone's genes Thus culturally different people can have the same genes, for instance some Jews and Palestinians
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Tazarah
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posted
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: So what if it was Kura-Araxes? That's before Abraham so J was spread before Abraham then why do you keep bringing it up ?
This is why you will forever be a clown whose comments are not even worth addressing. Abraham was NOT a descendant of the Kura-Araxes/Hurrians, we are talking about two completely different bloodlines/lineages.
Shaking my damn head, you are completely lost in the sauce and are obviously not comprehending any of this.
quote: While Hurrians are not mentioned by that name in the Bible, scholars suggest they had contact with the Israelites during the second millennium BC. When Abraham stayed in Haran of northwest Mesopotamia, he was living in the major region of Hurrian influence. Some scholars also suggest Hurrians lived in Canaan before and during the Israelite period.
^^^^ Those are your J carriers who brought J to the Levant/Mesopotamia.
The fact that they came before Abraham only strengthens the fact that he was not J. If they came after him then you would have an argument. But these are literally the people who brought J to the Levant/Mesopotamia before and during the time period of Abraham and they were not Hebrews like how Abraham was. Posts: 2491 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2021
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The fact that they came before Abraham only strengthens the fact that he was not J. If they came after him then you would have an argument. But these are literally the people who brought J to the Levant/Mesopotamia before and during the time period of Abraham and [b] they were not Hebrews like how Abraham was.
Like I said, people can create or adopt new languages and religions at anytime. It doesn't change their DNA Thus it's possible Abraham was in the same region Noah landed which after Noah but before Abraham would have become the Kura-Araxes culture
So biologically Abraham MIGHT have been of the same haplogroup as SOME of the Kura-Araxes (who also bore hap G and probably other groups also, yet to be verified) There is no evidence of Hebrew culture prior to Abraham and what language he even spoke if he existed I'm sorry
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Tazarah
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^ You're trying to play a game now since you can't demonstrate any other civilizations bringing J into the Levant/Mesopotamia
"Oh just because they were Kura-Araxes/Hurrian doesn't mean that's what they actually were ethnically or by blood"
But by taking that route you are basically admitting that they aren't Hebrews just because their Y markers were in the Levant/Mesopotamia.
You're trying to play the same game as djehuti and you failed just like him. Now all of a sudden Y markers are irrelevant because they debunk your "Abraham was J fantasy".
Rofl
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Tazarah
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: There is no evidence of Hebrew culture prior to Abraham and what language he even spoke if he existed I'm sorry
^^^^ ROFLLL what an idiot. Hebrews existed BEFORE Abraham. Everyone who descended from Eber was a Hebrew. Abraham was not the first Hebrew you clueless idiot. You sure are sorry
GO CRAWL BACK IN YOUR HOLE
quote: Eber:
The eponymous ancestor of the Hebrews; grandson of Arphaxad and great-grandson of Shem; father of Joktan, the ancestor of the Arabs, and of Peleg, among whose progeny, in the fifth generation, was Abram (Abraham) (Gen. x. 22, 25-30; xi. 18-26).
posted
The Hebrew Bible does not provide any information about where Eber lived. The ark (ridiculous fable like Noah living to age 950) supposedly landed in Turkey Hypothetically Abraham also live in Anatolia, so perhaps Eber did too This is potentially before J even spread
But these THEORIES about MASS spreading events do not mean Noah , Eber or Abraham could not have all been haplogroup J
This spreading stuff you talk about does not change that
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Tazarah
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posted
^^^ You just exposed yourself you clown. Imagine trying to argue about who Abraham was without having a single clue about what the Bible says concerning his lineage and ancestry.
Rofl
You are not qualified to be talking about any of this. Hebrews existed LONG before Abraham and you didn't even know this.
quote: "From Shem, through Arpachshad and Shelah came Eber, the eponymous ancestor of the Hebrews, and from his descendants through Peleg, Reu, Sereg and Nahor came Terah, the father of Abram and his brothers Nahor and Haran. It becomes clear that if "Hebrews" are descendants of Eber, then others besides those of Abraham's line would be included (see Gen. 10:25-27).
You are not qualified to be talking about any of this. Hebrews lived LONG before Abraham and you didn't even know this.
It can't be proven by scripture
and if one talks about the spread of a haplogroup For Instance if you think Abraham was E
A genetics article is not going to talk about that because there is no body and no proof that Abraham existed
Yet plenty of articles will talk about the spread of E from Africa to places outside of Africa (let that sink in)
So if any of these patriarchs spread J or E that is outside of the realm of these geneticist dealing with actual human remains testing, they cannot prove biblical characters are even real
Further as I keep telling your dumb azz If one culture is responsible for a mass spreading of a DNA type that does not means smaller groups or individuals did not ALSO spread it as is continually going on to this day
So again your wicked desire for excluding others from the love of God will continue to flop
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Tazarah
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^ Nah you got caught red-handed; it's a widely known fact that Hebrews are descendants of Eber, who long predates Abraham.
Just like how Shem predates Semites. Notice how you had NO problem in the past when the discussion was Shem being the father of Semites but now that you've been 200% exposed you want to play games.
80% of the bs you assert cannot be proven in scripture but now you want to be a Bible expert.
You know ZERO about the Bible and/or Abraham + his lineage/ancestors yet here you are making silly arguments about Abraham that are pure nonsense.
Rofl 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 have a seat
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quote:Originally posted by Tazarah: ^^^ You just exposed yourself you clown. Imagine trying to argue about who Abraham was without having a single clue about what the Bible says concerning his lineage and ancestry.
Rofl
You are not qualified to be talking about any of this. Hebrews existed LONG before Abraham and you didn't even know this.
quote: "From Shem, through Arpachshad and Shelah came Eber, the eponymous ancestor of the Hebrews, and from his descendants through Peleg, Reu, Sereg and Nahor came Terah, the father of Abram and his brothers Nahor and Haran. It becomes clear that if "Hebrews" are descendants of Eber, then others besides those of Abraham's line would be included (see Gen. 10:25-27).
quote: וּלְעֵ֥בֶר יֻלַּ֖ד שְׁנֵ֣י בָנִ֑ים שֵׁ֣ם הָֽאֶחָ֞ד פֶּ֗לֶג כִּ֤י בְיָמָיו֙ נִפְלְגָ֣ה הָאָ֔רֶץ וְשֵׁ֥ם אָחִ֖יו יׇקְטָֽן׃ Two sons were born to Eber: the name of the first was Peleg, for in his days the earth was divided; and the name of his brother was Joktan. וְיׇקְטָ֣ן יָלַ֔ד אֶת־אַלְמוֹדָ֖ד וְאֶת־שָׁ֑לֶף וְאֶת־חֲצַרְמָ֖וֶת וְאֶת־יָֽרַח׃ Joktan begot Almodad, Sheleph, Hazarmaveth, Jerah, וְאֶת־הֲדוֹרָ֥ם וְאֶת־אוּזָ֖ל וְאֶת־דִּקְלָֽה׃ Hadoram, Uzal, Diklah,
Actual clown, the only thing that associated associate Eber and Hebrew is perhaps his name and being ancestor of Abraham but the foundation of the culture is not proven at that time such as the practice of circumcision, the Ten Commandments, the observance of the Sabbath, the use of the tabernacle, and the importance of the Ark of the Covenant, etc All of these customs has starting point and either that can be established scripturally or it is unknown (or possible ancient writing outside of the bible )
Again, Abraham is the first person called a Hebrew in the bible Genesis 14:13
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Tazarah
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^Everything you just listed is ISRAELITE culture you damn dummy, Arabs are also Hebrews and don't practice that stuff.
ROFL!!!! Keep going though! This is the most foolish you've ever made yourself look and you're making it so much easier to ignore you FOR GOOD when I start ignoring your clueless ass again.
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quote:Originally posted by Tazarah: ^Everything you just listed is ISRAELITE culture
Yes fool, each of those things has to be associated in a biblical timeline proven by verse with a person named in the bible to prove that the Hebrew culture is occurring at that time, when that particular person lived
But at the sometime it's irrelevant to the fact that if you deem Abraham a Hebrew that does not mean he could not carry haplogroup J and brought it "spread it" to Israel after Kura-Araxes which starts around 4000 BC, 2,000 years before Abraham was born
The gimmick you keep using is if Kura-Araxes spread J that ONLY they could ever spread it. You are insertion this "only" implication which is a form of lie. In reality if they spread it that does not prevent anybody after them from continuing to spread it and haplogroups are not bound to any particular culture or language
In my view anybody regardless of ancestry should not determine a person's status but regardless, Jews today are mainly J, E, T and G. on the male side (although for most of their history it goes by the mother). T for instance was in Israel in the copper age But I don't see something in their ancient history that there was some big schism dispute as to who was a real Jew or not that might parallel people who would correspond to the differences, J, E, T and G (although there are some minor disputes)
You hate white Jews so you want to call as many as possible as frauds on a biological basis and most are J
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Tazarah
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^ This lying idiot didn't even know that Hebrews existed before Abraham and that Abraham was not the first or only Hebrew.
quote: According to the Hebrew Bible, the first patriarch (male clan leader) of the Hebrews was Abraham, a man who led the Hebrews away from Mesopotamia in about 1900 BCE.
And he, along with djehuti, has for weeks failed to produce a source showing hg J being introduced to the Levant/Mesopotamia by a civilization that could Biblically be the ancestor(s) of (or related to) Abraham.
After getting manhandled for all this time, he's now playing the "Tazarah hates white jewish people" game.
Here's a thread I made about black Jews years ago, notice how the first comments are by "lioness" (he went back and deleted some of them to cover up the fact that he was trolling) but also pay attention to how in the comments he did not delete/edit, he can be seen arguing that "black doesn't mean black" or "black doesn't mean negroes" when in reference to black Jews:
He obviously adheres to the "true negro" doctrine.
The whole internet knows that this "lioness" person is actually a white man who has been pretending to be a black woman on this website and many other websites for over a decade -- his main goal being to discredit black history that he does not want to be discussed on the internet.
Screenshots from around the web of countless different people acknowledging this about "lioness" can also be seen at the end of the same thread linked above.
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The whole internet knows that this "lioness" person is actually a white man who has been pretending to be a black woman on this website and many other websites for over a decade -- his main goal being to discredit black history that he does not want to be discussed on the internet.
keep guessing
what other websites?
the whole internet knows me?
bluffs don't work on me
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posted
Lioness, why bother with the idiot. He is arguing about haplogroup J when I already cited a source about one branch of J, J1-M267 of which one subtype happened to be identified as the Cohen modal haplotype--J1-B877.
We show that this haplogroup [J1-M267] evolved 20,000 years ago somewhere in northwestern Iran, the Caucasus, the Armenian Highland, and northern Mesopotamia. *The major branch—J1a1a1-P58—evolved during the early Holocene 9500 years ago somewhere in the Arabian Peninsula, the Levant, and southern Mesopotamia.* Haplogroup J1-M267 expanded during the Chalcolithic, the Bronze Age, and the Iron Age. Most probably, the spread of Afro-Asiatic languages, the spread of mobile pastoralism in the arid zones, or both of these events together explain the distribution of haplogroup J1-M267 we see today in the southern regions of West Asia.
The imbecile hides behind his straw doll of Kura-Araxes Culture (c. 3,400 B.C. — c. 2,000 B.C.)
Kura-Araxes
Yet he ignores the Halafian Culture (c. 6500 B.C. – c. 5500 B.C.), the Samarra Culture (c. 5500 B.C. - c. 4800 B.C.), and the Hassuna Culture (c. 5750 B.C. – c. 5350 B.C.)
All in the homeland of Abraham-- Ur (not to be confused with Sumerian Ur in southern Mesopotamia)
These were the Bronze Age cultures during the time of Abraham.
^ Note, Yamhad, Qatna, and Mari were Semitic speaking nations-- the last were East-Semitic speakers while the former two were West-Semitic speaking.
So he can keep clinging to his straw doll of 'Kura-Araxes/Hurrians' all he wants. He can hump it for all I care but it won't save his sorry lying ass. Posts: 26236 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
Taz is one of those trolls who is so dumb he doesn't realize he was debunked ages ago. So please the idiot alone.
I really want to get back to the original topic of this thread which is NOT haplogroup J or the origins of Abraham but rather IAM population, Natufians, Proto-Semitic, North African Component .
Recall the following...
Note that other than the Yemeni Mahra, you have Bedouin B which was discussed before.
No cultural artifacts were associated with the human remains, however, their archaeological context revealed that these were primary burials with the bodies placed in decubitus position, inside pits that were intrusive in the Neolithic levels (Fig. 1b). Interestingly, while the two burials were located very close to each other, no evidence of a Late Antiquity cemetery was documented at the site.
Genomic analysis of the individuals: all four methods confirmed low levels of contamination. Two biological sex inference methods26,27 identified syr005 to be a male and syr013 a female. Individuals syr005 and syr013 were determined to carry mitochondrial haplogroups J2a2a1a1 and R0a2, respectively. Both haplogroups are common in the Arabian Peninsula, Near East and parts of Africa28,29 in concordance with the broad geographical location of the samples. In addition, the Y chromosome of syr005 was determined as haplogroup J, which is the most common haplogroup across the Middle East30 (Supplementary Table S2). In order to explore general patterns of genetic affinity to modern populations, principal component analysis (PCA) was performed projecting the two newly sequenced Syrian individuals on a broad set of modern Middle Eastern, European and North African groups (Fig.2a). The two Late Antiquity Syrian individuals fell close to Saudi, Turkish and Middle Eastern genomic variation and to some Jewish populations but do not show close genetic affinities to the geographically close Lebanese samples from12. Further, to obtain a better understanding of the regional variation, a second PCA was conducted, limited to 37 groups from the Middle East, Arabian Peninsula and Caucasus. Here, the Syrian samples fell close to Yemenite Jews, Saudi and Bedouins genomic variation (Fig. 2b). Notably, within these genotyped Bedouins, there are two sub-groups, both sampled in the Negev in Israel: Bedouin A and Bedouin B2 that were observed to have distinct distributions in the PCA: while Bedouin A seem to be more widely dispersed and overlap with other groups from surrounding regions, Bedouin B (with the exception of one individual) form a small cluster separate from all other groups in the region. From these two sub-groups, individuals syr005 and syr013 fall between the two Bedouin groups, and show a clear genetic differentiation from relevant modern-day Levantine populations (i.e. Druze, Palestinian, Jordanian and Lebanese). Further, to gain insight into the genetic composition of ancient and modern populations, an unsupervised ADMIXTURE analysis was performed. ADMIXTURE was first run with a larger set of individuals (1073 individuals) from Europe and the Middle East (73 populations). For K = 2, 3 and 5, all iterations with different random seeds converged to consistent results (Supplementary Fig. S2). Therefore, we consider K=5 as a compromise between resolution and robustness of results. At K = 2, mostly north Europeans are differentiated from south Europeans, Middle Easterners and Arabian Peninsula groups. At K = 3, a new component emerged in Caucasian and Middle Eastern groups. At K = 4, another component appeared in south Europeans and Middle Eastern groups. At K = 5, a component exclusive to Middle Eastern and Arabian Peninsula groups appears (Fig. 3). This new component was seen at high proportions in Bedouins, Saudi, Yemenite Jews and our Syrian samples. Interestingly, within the Bedouins, Bedouin B was composed almost entirely of this new component. The separate cluster of Bedouin B could be the result of genetic drift, although its presence in other populations from the Arabian Peninsula suggests some degree of separate ancestry among these groups. The Late Antiquity Syrian individuals showed similar genetic composition to Bedouin B and some Saudi individuals.
Here is a PCA of modern populations of the Middle East and North Africa.
^ Note that the Bedouin B form one cluster while Egyptians form another in close proximity to Libyans. Also note the two Yemeni samples-- 1 close to Bedouin A, while another close the Libyan cluster.
From the thread Indigenous Arabs are descendants of the earliest split from ancient Eurasian populations, the source paper states: The ADMIXTURE analysis identified K = 12 ancestral populations as having the lowest cross-validation error (Supplemental Fig. 7A). At this level of resolution, the Q1 (Bedouin) had a high average (84%) proportion of ancestry that was also present in the Human Origins *Bedouin B population at a high average proportion (93%)* (Supplemental Fig. 7B,C), in which this same ancestry was also shared with Saudis, and at lower levels among other Middle Eastern populations. This ancestry therefore appears to be the signal of an indigenous Arab ancestral population. The Bedouin A population also shared this ancestry but at a lower average proportion (45%) and appeared to be more admixed overall. The Q2 (Persian-South Asian) shared a large proportion (45% on average) of ancestry that dominates in Iranians (46% on average), consistent with a Persian ancestral population (Omberg et al. 2012). The Q3 (African) shared the majority of ancestry with African populations as expected and were considerably admixed overall, again consistent with the known history of this subpopulation (Supplemental Fig. 7A; Omberg et al. 2012).
^ Note the common ancestor of both Main Eurasian and Basal Eurasian shares a common ancestor with Ancestral North African. Bedouin B has very much something to do with theses early Eurasian lineages.
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Tazarah
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@Djehuti
As I pointed out to you before, the source you referenced says J1 evolved in Mesopotamia, you low IQ scholarly poser. I've already shown you where it came from and who brought it there -- and they were not related to Abraham.
Back to the challenge you keep avoiding -- when did you ever address what I actually challenged you to address?... Never. The fact that you have to save face by clinging to "lioness" as a coping mechanism speaks volumes.
quote:Originally posted by Tazarah: ^ As expected, ZERO sources were provided by Djehuti who has repeatedly asserted that J carriers other than the Kura-Araxes/Hurrians brought J to the Levant/Mesopotamia. Zero sources to demonstrate J being introduced to the Levant/Mesopotamia by a civilization that could actually be related to Hebrews.
Just speculation, deflection and childish insults when sources should have been provided.
He will most likely indirectly respond to me sometime in the near future (as he has done several times already) in an attempt to save face, but NEVER will he produce a source to substantiate his faulty assertion.
I am the boogie man to this pseudo idiot who can't keep my name out of his mouth but NEVER produces a source to back up his opinion.
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Tazarah
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quote:Originally posted by Tazarah: And regarding the "cohen gene" that Djehuti has already admit lacks conclusive evidence:
quote: "One thing is clear: the CMH cannot definitively prove the existence of a single founding father for the Jewish priesthood, let alone confirm that he was Aaron. If it is primarily a marker of priestly inheritance, why would it show up on two J lineages—most commonly on J1 but also on J2 -- that split thousands of years, maybe more than ten thousand years, before the time of Aaron? Moreover, some Jews with an oral history of being a Cohanim and no known record of conversion have neither a J1 nor J2 lineage. They are from the haplogroup E3b, which has Middle Eastern origins, or from Rlb, which is common among Europeans and some Turks. How could that be?"
"Abraham's Children: Race, Identity, and the DNA of the Chosen People" by Jon Entine, page 70-71
Djehuti has admit the "cohen gene" lacks conclusive evidence and other authorities also say the same, so why does he keep trying to appeal to it? Is it incompetence? Or deception and dishonesty.
He's not even worth the time. I think I'm about to start treating Djehuti like "the lioness," and ignoring him completely.
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Tazarah
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******* For those who have been reading along but not commenting -- I'm sure you've noticed that for the last few pages I have been specifically asking djehuti to provide a genetic paper showing hg J being introduced to the Levant/Mesopotamia by a civilization that can actually be related to Hebrews or Abraham.
A civilization OTHER than the kura-araxes/hurrians. In other words, I stopped beating him over the head with the kura-araxes/hurrian sources and have given him ample opportunity to provide sources showing a Biblically relevant civilization introducing hg J to the Levant/Mesopotamia and he still can't do it for some reason... yet he continues flapping his gums and declaring victory, repeating the same nonsense over and over.
It's called cognitive dissonance.
🤷🏾♂️
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posted
^ Yeah, but the thread had to be closed because the idiot above you would not stop trolling there. So now he has to pollute this thread with his trolling. It's very annoying. This is why I'm now ignoring him so we can discuss the relevant topic.
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Tazarah
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@Djehuti
What a lying cry baby, imagine being upset at somebody else because you can't provide a source to support what you claim.
That thread in question concluded with me contacting an actual Ph.D geneticist with decades of experience who dismissed all of the pseudo claims about hg J being the supposed marker of Abraham and his caravan as they migrated from Mesopotamia to the Levant.
Literally anybody can go look at the last page of that thread and see for themselves.
Imagine calling me a troll when I:
1.) Provided genetic sources that contradict your assertion(s).
2.) Backed you so far into a corner that you are unable to provide a genetic source to support the idea that hg J was brought to the Levant/Mesopotamia by a civilization that could actually be related to Abraham/Hebrews like how you have repeatedly claimed.
3.) Presented the input of an actual Ph.D geneticist who viewed your claim(s) and dismissed all of them as hypothetical theory that cannot ever be proven.
ROFL, if you're going to "ignore Taz" then start doing it already and stop crying to other people about me.
UNLESS you finally decide to provide a source that shows hg J being brought to the Levant/Mesopotamia by a civilization that could actually be related to Abraham/Hebrews -- like how you have repeatedly claimed. Posts: 2491 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2021
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Tazarah
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@Djehuti
You are the one who started all of this in that thread, pretending to be a genetic know it all.
Then you have the nerve to bring my name up in this thread, declaring victory talking about how you "schooled me".
You're the reason why it all carried over into this thread.
Now you're butthurt because you got exposed.
Rofl
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to Eran▾ 12:15 PM (5 hours ago) Thank you for your response Dr. Elhaik. I have one last question: What would you say is the best response to those who claim Abraham must have been haplogroup J due to the fact that haplogroup J supposedly came from Mesopotamia to the Levant at the same time period Abraham did?
Eran Elhaik to me▾ This is a purely hypothetical question. There will never be an answer to that. 4:04 PM (1 hour ago) ☆
thus it remains an unresolved question, not a rejection of possibility > the same thing I have been saying
/8 pages dead
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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Tazarah
Why are you stalking my social media?
Member # 23365
posted
^ Look at this black-obsessed, black-hating troll who despises any black person who presents argumentation that goes against what he believes in.
He claims his position is that: "it remains an unresolved question" whenever I post about the topic but refuses to take this position when it comes to djehuti arguing for hg J.
Go tell that to djehuti then if that's what you believe, you idiot. You have been arguing in support of hg J this entire time and when you do take the position that it's "unresolved", you only take that position in response to me because you hate black people.
You expose yourself everyday.
Lastly, Dr. Elhaik came to the conclusion that Abraham was not a J carrier and postulates that Abraham was a different Y marker entirely.
You also excluded the last part of that email message where he explained the GPS.
Posts: 2491 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2021
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quote:Originally posted by Doug M: What I am saying is that haplogroup J originated between Africa and Arabia, regardless of whether or not a downstream branch of J arose in the Caucasus. Haplogroup J-M267 is a child of the parent J lineage and entire J family originated between Africa and Arabia.
Tazarah
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Member # 23365
posted
^ You mean you only react to black people. Djehuti has been excluding all other markers in favor of J, have you not been reading the posts in here you idiotic troll?
I mean, you troll in here everyday so I have no idea how you missed djehuti claiming that Abraham was J.
It's only a problem for "lioness" when a black person takes a position concerning Abraham and the Israelites.
What a lying, disgusting, black-hating troll.
Posts: 2491 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2021
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posted
why do you keep bringing up blackness? I told your silly ass Nubians and Ethiopians have significant frequencies of both E and J, both regarded as black, get a DNA test you never know what might turn up and work on your manners so people won't keep thinking you're a troll. You already won the 2023 Egyptsearch awards for pettiness and repetitiveness. Abraham might even have been E1b1b like the Natufians
but is a purely hypothetical question. There will never be an answer to that (Elhaik 2023)
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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Tazarah
Why are you stalking my social media?
Member # 23365
posted
^ one of the most notorious trolls the web has ever seen is trying to imply that I'm a troll. ROFL!
Nubians and ethiopians having E or J means absolutely nothing when it comes to Abraham's potential Y marker you idiot.
You claim I'm excluding people by demonstrating that Abraham was E and you obsess over me night and day, but you say NOTHING to djehuti for excluding people by arguing that Abraham was J.
Because you are a lying hypocrite who has a disdain for black people. It's not "exclusion" that bothers you, it's black people making certain arguments that bothers you.
Get the hell out of here you damn loser, you are the biggest troll this website has ever seen and plenty of other users would agree with that.
The fact that the admin(s) had to boot your ass from being a mod speaks for itself.
Posts: 2491 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2021
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posted
why are you saying I have disdain for black people? stop being mean
what trolling is is when people are discussing or debating a topic one of the starts throwing in insults and personal attacks. I'm not saying I never do that but you do it ten times more and when I do it's usually retaliatory.
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
the original J is J-M304 later splitting into J1 and J2
quote:Originally posted by Tazarah:
quote:"Interestingly, an ancient individual from the Caucasus belonging to J1a1b-Z18375 is found in the assemblage of the Bronze Age Kura-Araxes cultural tradition. This cultural tradition probably originated in the Caucasus and may explain the radiation of this branch."
Origin and diffusion of human Y chromosome haplogroup J1-M267 Hovhannes Sahakyan, 2021
Origin and diffusion of human Y chromosome haplogroup J1-M267 Hovhannes Sahakyan, 2021
Y chromosome haplogroup J-M304 represents the major male lineage in West Asia today. The 12f2a13 deletion and single nucleotide polymorphic (SNP) biallelic markers M3049 and P20914 define and characterize this haplogroup...
Unfortunately, so far aDNA studies are missing from the Arabian Peninsula and Mesopotamia, where haplogroup J-M304 is frequent nowadays...
This haplogroup splits into J1-M267 and J2-M172...
haplogroup J1-M267 root’s locations covers Iran, the Caucasus, the Armenian Highland, Mesopotamia, the northern Levant, and the northern and the eastern Arabian Peninsula
We conclude that haplogroup J1a1a1-P58 started to diverge most probably in a region encompassing the Arabian Peninsula, the southern Levant, and southern Mesopotamia. The small-scale migration of people from northern West Asia to these regions among whom J1a1a1-P58 evolved, obviously occurred between the origins of J1a1a-Z2359 and J1a1a1-P58. The most conservative estimate is 7.4–15.7 kya.
Haplogroup J1a1a1-P58 in ancient populations was found only in the Bronze Age Levant2
At the beginning of the population expansion, people belonging to haplogroup J1a1a1-P58, probably migrated also to the northern regions of West Asia and Europe from the Arabian Peninsula, southern Mesopotamia, and the Levant. Therefore, in the case of West Asia this evidence—based on the TMRCAs of the shared J1a1a1-P58 branches—mirrors that of genome-wide ancestry22. The migration of the J1a1a1-P58 lineages, though, was less pronounced towards the northern regions of West Asia and Europe, since the frequency of this haplogroup and the number of such branches are low there. During this time and especially thereafter, the spread within the Arabian Peninsula, southern Mesopotamia, and the southern Levant was more intense, resulting in a large number of local branches and the high frequency we find today. This expansion resembles the spread of Afro-Asiatic languages in West Asia65. Both the spread of J1a1a1-P58 and Afro-Asiatic languages could have been caused by the change of climatic conditions and the emergence of arid pastoralism as suggested earlier23.
quote:Originally posted by Tazarah:
quote:"Interestingly, an ancient individual from the Caucasus belonging to J1a1b-Z18375 is found in the assemblage of the Bronze Age Kura-Araxes cultural tradition. This cultural tradition probably originated in the Caucasus and may explain the radiation of this branch."
Origin and diffusion of human Y chromosome haplogroup J1-M267 Hovhannes Sahakyan, 2021
here we see J1-M267 breaking off into different lineages
J1a1b-Z18375 and at the far right we can see some modern people who carry it, as well as an Assyrian Sindi (Scythian) Lesgin (Northeast Caucasian ethnic group) USA Tabasaran (Northeast Caucasian ethnic group) Bedouin Columbian etc
There is person there in Columbian, probably migrant
But Ashkenazi, at one position with the blue dot and a couple others lower down, as well as other Jews and non-Jews, Egyptian, Sardinian, Yemeni, Qatari even Peru (obviously not a native)
These a people from a different branch descending from J1a1a1-P58
"We conclude that haplogroup J1a1a1-P58 started to diverge most probably in a region encompassing the Arabian Peninsula, the southern Levant, and southern Mesopotamia. The small-scale migration of people from northern West Asia to these regions among whom J1a1a1-P58 evolved, obviously occurred between the origins of J1a1a-Z2359 and J1a1a1-P58. The most conservative estimate is 7.4–15.7 kya."
and you can see some Middle East people in there as expected for P58 while the Caucasus people are showing up with the previous clade J1a1b-Z18375 (although the Bedouin is an exception)
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by BrandonP: Anyone have pictures of the "Bedouin B" people?
The Bedouin B sample was first discussed here by Xyyman. They are bedouin from the Negev Desert in southern Israel the same as Bedouin A except the former preserve genetic elements not shared by Bedouin A or other modern Levantine groups.
Recall the Schuenemann pca.
Not only is Bedouin A more similar to modern Levantine groups, but part of this similarity is the presence of Sub-Saharan ancestry.
Yet the Bedouin B shows higher rates of Natufian brown.
Natufians are known to be crossbred. If the royal blue Anatoli element reps Natufian 'Eurasian' parentage then surely the brown reps African heritage.
All the peoples below have only two or three major components.
Natufian: Erythrea Brown + Anatoli Royal Blue Levant N: Erythrea Brown + Anatoli Royal Blue AbusirEg: Erythrea Brown + Anatoli Royal Blue + Caucasus Sky Blue
Beduin B: Erythrea Brown + Caucasus Sky Blue + Anatoli Royal Blue Teimani: Erythrea Brown + Caucasus Sky Blue + Anatoli Royal Blue Saudi: Erythrea Brown + Caucasus Sky Blue + Anatoli Royal Blue
Beta Israel: Erythrea Brown + Volta-Niger Red + Hadza Steel Somali: Erythrea Brown + Volta-Niger Red + Hadza Steel
Bronze Age Levant has less than 50% Erythrea and interjects the Maghreb geography coming next. Other than that it'd be with the Levantine-Abusir brown/royal/sky set.
Though placed here for their majority brown, Beduin B, Yemenite Jew, and Saudi would otherwise fit in the upcoming Mashreq brown/sky/ set.
As far as looks go, Negev Bedouin vary in appearance depending on tribe. Some tribes look more 'African' while others less so.
Tazarah
Why are you stalking my social media?
Member # 23365
posted
@"the lioness,"
I completely disagree with djehuti on this topic for XYZ reasons but in all honesty and all genetic arguments aside, I can tell that djehuti is not a bad person and most likely a decent human being who is very intelligent.
I do not dislike people, I dislike arguments. Do things get heated when people are debating things they are passionate about? Of course.
He can call me names and I can call him names, he can attack my position and I can attack his position, but at the end of the day all of that means nothing to me because I don't hate the guy and I don't lose sleep over any of this.
And he can continue to feel the way he does about me, that doesn't change any of the positive things I've just said about him.
That being said, you ("the lioness") are a known, notorious troll who clearly has it out for black people specifically.
75% to 80% of the garbage posts and miscellaneous side-arguments in this thread alone exist because of you.
I blame myself as well for being dumb enough to go back and forth with a complete idiot.
All of the derailed threads on this website over the span of the past decade have a common denominator: YOU. Posts: 2491 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2021
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posted
Tt's because the mods are out to lunch allowing page after page of unprovoked insults and personal attacks. Occasionally you might hear me retaliate, can you blame me after 20 insults in row? Carefully go back in the thread and count the number of times and who's doing it. They don't care. In addition there is a religious agenda running through it And they let him follow me around in many threads, about 50 posts asking why I'm not a mod anymore. Look at my last post, it's all data and article quote and no bullshit mixed in, It took time to research.
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Tazarah
Why are you stalking my social media?
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posted
Yeah, everyone go back and start reading at page 4 where "the lioness" repeatedly inserted himself into a discussion between djehuti and myself, and repeatedly kept trying to muddy the water. You do this ALL the time and everybody knows it.
Djehuti and I were each arguing in favor of a certain Y marker in regards to Abraham. "The lioness" claims he obsesses over me because I promote "exclusion" yet djehuti was also excluding all other haplogroups in favor of the one he believed to be Abraham's.
"The lioness" is a sociopathic troll who only has a problem when black people make certain arguments; if a non-black person makes the exact same argument, "the lioness" has no problem with it and says nothing about it. But let it be a black person and he will insert himself into the discussion non-stop in an attempt to silence and "discredit" them.
Now he's trying to play the victim, yet the whole damn website knows you have a problem and that you are the problem -- even the mods know this and that's why they booted your ass from being a mod. So you look even more foolish for trying to talk bad about the other mods of this website who are actually normal people.
I kept pestering you and asking you why you were no longer a mod to give you a taste of your own medicine and show you how damn annoying you are. Nevertheless, Askia told me to stop and I did. And it wasn't 50 posts, liar.
Keep trying to play the victim, especially with your decade-long history of this type of foolish behavior. Let's see how well that works for you.
Posts: 2491 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2021
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: Tt's because the mods are out to lunch allowing page after page of unprovoked insults and personal attacks. Occasionally you might hear me retaliate, can you blame me after 20 insults in row? Carefully go back in the thread and count the number of times and who's doing it. They don't care. In addition there is a religious agenda running through it And they let him follow me around in many threads, about 50 posts asking why I'm not a mod anymore. Look at my last post, it's all data and article quote and no bullshit mixed in, It took time to research.
I see whats going on but that person will never admit that they're just trolling for the hell of trolling.
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Tazarah
Why are you stalking my social media?
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posted
^ The person you just quoted has a 10+ year long history of trolling and derailing threads, he's even derailed multiple threads of mine personally. You obviously do not "see what's going on" because if you did then you would know that "the lioness" is doing what he always does. He literally follows me around everywhere on this site, especially when I make posts about ancient Israel because he doesn't want black people to have anything to do with ancient Hebrews/Israel. I don't troll, nor am I known for trolling. Asking XYZ person to present a source to back up their claim(s) is not trolling.
I've been on this site for years and I've only been banned one time for 3 days and it wasn't for trolling, it was for something I said that came off as offensive -- I should have been more careful with how I worded it.
If you want to say I'm off topic then sure, but I'm not the only one guilty of that.
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Tazarah
Why are you stalking my social media?
Member # 23365
posted
He ("the lioness") wants to try so hard to discredit what I'm saying because I'm "excluding Y haplogroups" but has nothing to say to djehuti about making the same exact argument and also excluding Y haplogroups.
THAT is a troll -- if anything, if he wanted to stop people from excluding haplogroups, he would say "hey Tazarah and Djehuti, both of you need to shutup because you are excluding people when there isn't 100% evidence for any haplogroup to be Abraham's."
He instead spams me with nonsense even when I ignore him (start reading at page 4 of this thread) and only attacks me because I'm black and he wants black people to stay in their place. That's why he has attempted to derail literally every major thread I have made about black Jews + evidence of black Jews:
But yeah, I'm the troll. Nah, I'm just tired of playing nice with "the lioness" and letting his BS fly. So now I'm calling him out for it.
******** P.S., it doesn't matter when the specific branch of J1 split because the people in question with the J1 (Kura-Araxes/Hurrians) were not related to Hebrews so that logically means their ancestral clade was not related to Hebrews either. Posts: 2491 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2021
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posted
And this my comrades is why we (mods), close threads.
It was obvious then when I insisted the conversation had no bounds in the previous thread about Israelites.
This thread has nothing to do with haplogroup J, nor does it have anything to do with Hebrews or Israelites.
The topic and others with similar patterns of spam will be closed. You guys have 24 hours. ///MODPosts: 1781 | From: New York | Registered: Jul 2016
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posted
Perhaps if people would stop feeding the troll, he would starve and disappear. That's why I went back to actually discussing the topic of this thread since the troll is too dumb to realize he was debunked ages ago with sources that he keeps asking for!
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