This is topic Earliest picture of an Israelite in forum Deshret at EgyptSearch Forums.


To visit this topic, use this URL:
http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=008956

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Obelisk_of_Shalmaneser_III


Black Obelisk of Shalmaneser III

It is the most complete Assyrian obelisk yet discovered, and is historically significant because it is thought to display the earliest ancient depiction of a biblical figure - Hoshea King of Israel. The traditional identification of "Yaw" as Jehu has been questioned by some scholars, who proposed that the inscription refers to another king, Jehoram of Israel. Its reference to 'Parsua' is also the first known reference to the Persians.

________________________________________________________


Black Obelisk of Shalmaneser III"






Depiction of Hoshea King of Israel giving tribute to King Shalmaneser III of Assyria (2 Kings 17:3), on the Black Obelisk of Shalmaneser III from Nimrud (circa 827 BC) in the British Museum (London).


https://www.britishmuseum.org/explore/highlights/highlight_objects/me/t/black_obelisk_of_shalmaneser.aspx

The Black Obelisk of Shalmaneser III

Neo-Assyrian, 858-824 BC
From Nimrud (ancient Kalhu), northern Iraq

The military achievements of an Assyrian king

The archaeologist Henry Layard discovered this black limestone obelisk in 1846 during his excavations of the site of Kalhu, the ancient Assyrian capital. It was erected as a public monument in 825 BC at a time of civil war. The relief sculptures glorify the achievements of King Shalmaneser III (reigned 858-824 BC) and his chief minister. It lists their military campaigns of thirty-one years and the tribute they exacted from their neighbours: including camels, monkeys, an elephant and a rhinoceros. Assyrian kings often collected exotic animals and plants as an expression of their power.

There are five scenes of tribute, each of which occupies four panels round the face of the obelisk and is identified by a line of cuneiform script above the panel. From top to bottom they are:

Sua of Gilzanu (in north-west Iran)
Jehu of Bit Omri (ancient northern Israel)
An unnamed ruler of Musri (probably Egypt)
Marduk-apil-usur of Suhi (middle Euphrates, Syria and Iraq)
Qalparunda of Patin (Antakya region of Turkey)

The second register from the top includes the earliest surviving picture of an Israelite: the Biblical Jehu, king of Israel, brought or sent his tribute in around 841 BC. Ahab, son of Omri, king of Israel, had lost his life in battle a few years previously, fighting against the king of Damascus at Ramoth-Gilead (I Kings xxii. 29-36). His second son (Joram) was succeeded by Jehu, a usurper, who broke the alliances with Phoenicia and Judah, and submitted to Assyria. The caption above the scene, written in Assyrian cuneiform, can be translated

The tribute of Jehu, son of Omri: I received from him silver, gold, a golden bowl, a golden vase with pointed bottom, golden tumblers, golden buckets, tin, a staff for a king [and] spears.

J.E. Reade, Assyrian sculpture-1 (London, The British Museum Press, 1998)

T.C. Mitchell, The Bible in the British Museu (London, The British Museum Press, 1988)

D. Luckenbill, Ancient records of Assyria and (, 1927 (reprinted 1989))

________________________________
 

---

Posted by mena7 (Member # 20555) on :
 
This is an humiliating picture of the black or mulato king of Israel bowing down in front of the black and mulato king of Assyria. If he didn't do that the Assyrian would have cut his head. I would like to see the picture of the Egyptian, Iranian, Irakian and Turkish king on the stela.
 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 
Each panel runs around all four sides of the obelisk and is described by the cuneiform inscription above it.
 

---

Posted by Tukuler (Member # 19944) on :
 


There are specialists who doubt Yehu,
potentate of the divided Hebrew's
northern kingdom Yisra'El, is herein
depicted rather than diplomats in
Assyrian employ. Let's assume that
it is Yehu and that he and the
retainers shown as one rotates
the obelisk do exemplify the
average phenotype of northern
kingdom Hebrews, though strict
comparison of the retainers in
each register (their hairstyle
and clothing) would be very
informative. I'd do it but I
no longer own Pritchard's
The Ancient Near East: An Anthology of Texts and Pictures.

We still have not to dismiss the images
of the southern Hebrew kingdom Y*huda's
ruling junta depicted by Sennacherib ~120
years later (not so long afterward).




Remember, the northern kingdom is closer to the
Caucasus while the southern kingdom is next door
to Egypt.
 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 
these short legged bearded people don't resemble Egyptians
 

---

Posted by Tukuler (Member # 19944) on :
 
That's because they're not Egyptian
any more than Israel was Caucasian.

Biological affinities (link)

Been through all this before a few
times. Don't waste my time. Review
site:egyptsearch.com Shalmaneser
site:egyptsearch.com Sennacherib

I know its better to start anew
than link or bump old threads
so some other cat can drag it in.
 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 
Please let's not talk about Caucasians and Negroids. I'm tired of them both

Caucasians and Negroids are banned from this thread

thanks, lioness
 

---

Posted by Tukuler (Member # 19944) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

Please let's not talk about Caucasians and Negroids. I'm tired of them both

Caucasians and Negroids are banned from this thread

thanks, lioness

---

• The eastern Mediterranean is a nexus of three
  continents. It and the Arabian Peninsula were
  peopled by other migrant invaders who didn't
  originally speak in Afrisian. Semitic speakers
  were among the first but weren't the only
  inhabitants of the region. Chadic and/or
  Nilo-Saharan speakers likely preceded them.
  Indo-Europeans, Caucasics, Altaics, etc., came
  after them probably via Daryal Gorge through the
  Caucasus.
  
  From this can be gathered, if anything, that
  "Semites" are partially North East Africans
  who migrated into the Arabian peninsula and
  moved northward (as far as up to Turkey)
  where they met and mingled with and were maybe
  blocked from further spread by southward invading
  Eurasian peoples (Altaic and Indo-European speakers)
  in pre-historic times. Upon the eclipse of the
  southerners the hybrids and assimilated settlers
  (beginning circa -1800 with the maryannu caste)
  became heir to the names and languages of the
  original people they married into and whose
  culture they emulated and lexicon enriched.
  
  from the What about Semitic? thread

• People look at the familiar faces from the region
  as shown by the media and never see all the faces
  on the back streets and non-urban areas which
  more than likely resemble the original indigenees
  even before E3b bearers introduced Afrisan and
  the beginnings of neolithic industries.
  
  It was the good life Afrisan speakers initiated
  and the indigenees nurtured that made the place
  a magnet for immigrants to cross the Daryal Gorge
  to infuse themselves in SWANEA. And Indo-European
  speakers continued to migrate in whatever numbers
  especially in Roman Byzantine and Crusader eras.
  Not to count the sexual slave trade (particularly
  in Circassian females) with the rise of Islam.
  
  from the Near East thread

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
Each panel runs around all four sides of the obelisk and is described by the cuneiform inscription above it.

---

I notice the headwear, ...















2 Kings 17:3

Shalmaneser king of Assyria came up to attack Hoshea, who had been Shalmaneser’s vassal and had paid him tribute.


2 Kings 17:4

But the king of Assyria discovered that Hoshea was a traitor, for he had sent envoys to So king of Egypt, and he no longer paid tribute to the king of Assyria, as he had done year by year. Therefore Shalmaneser seized him and put him in prison.


2 Kings 18:9

In King Hezekiah’s fourth year, which was the seventh year of Hoshea son of Elah king of Israel, Shalmaneser king of Assyria marched against Samaria and laid siege to it.


2 Kings 18:13

In the fourteenth year of King Hezekiah’s reign, Sennacherib king of Assyria attacked all the fortified cities of Judah and captured them.


2 Kings 18:17

[Sennacherib Threatens Jerusalem ] The king of Assyria sent his supreme commander, his chief officer and his field commander with a large army, from Lachish to King Hezekiah at Jerusalem. They came up to Jerusalem and stopped at the aqueduct of the Upper Pool, on the road to the Washerman’s Field.


2 Kings 19:20

[Isaiah Prophesies Sennacherib’s Fall ] Then Isaiah son of Amoz sent a message to Hezekiah: “This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: I have heard your prayer concerning Sennacherib king of Assyria.


ISAIAH » PROPHECIES, REPROOFS, AND EXHORTATIONS OF » Reproves Ephraim for his wickedness, and fortells the destruction by Shalmaneser (Isaiah 28:1-5)


SAMARIA » City of, built by Omri » Besieged by Shalmaneser, king of Assyria, for three years; captured; the people carried away to Halah and Habor, cities of the Medes (2 Kings 17:5,6;18:9-11)
 

---

Posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
these short legged bearded people don't resemble Egyptians

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
these short legged bearded people don't resemble Egyptians

---

Isaiah 20:4 So shall the king of Assyria lead away the Egyptians prisoners, and the Ethiopians captives, young and old, naked and barefoot, even with their buttocks uncovered, to the shame of Egypt.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
these short legged bearded people don't resemble Egyptians

---

Isaiah 20:4 So shall the king of Assyria lead away the Egyptians prisoners, and the Ethiopians captives, young and old, naked and barefoot, even with their buttocks uncovered, to the shame of Egypt.

---

And this means that the Egyptians were short legged and had beards?

---

Where did you read that?



 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
[qb] these short legged bearded people don't resemble Egyptians

---

Isaiah 20:4 So shall the king of Assyria lead away the Egyptians prisoners, and the Ethiopians captives, young and old, naked and barefoot, even with their buttocks uncovered, to the shame of Egypt.

---

And this means that the Egyptians were short legged and had beards?

---

Where did you read that?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
[qb] these short legged bearded people don't resemble Egyptians

---

Isaiah 20:4 So shall the king of Assyria lead away the Egyptians prisoners, and the Ethiopians captives, young and old, naked and barefoot, even with their buttocks uncovered, to the shame of Egypt.

---

And this means that the Egyptians were short legged and had beards?

---

Where did you read that?

---

Normally when people reply to a remark and quote that remark, their reply is related in subject

So if I say these short legged bearded people don't resemble Egyptians and then somebody quotes me and replies it's a good assumption that that their remark will be related to my remark

However you rountinely quote people and then the remark you make after it is unrelated to the quote, just random

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:
Ps, ^they answer simple it

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:
Ps, ^they answer simple it

---

My remark was an observation not something I read

Tukular posted a Lachish relief and remarked

"Remember, the northern kingdom is closer to the
Caucasus while the southern kingdom is next door
to Egypt."

I observed the people in the relief didn't look like Egyptians and both you and Tukular agree with this, so stop nitpicking, thanks in advance

---

Oh, so that's why you nitpicked on this biblical text? You can always change it if you want.


Isaiah 20:4 So shall the king of Assyria lead away the Egyptians prisoners, and the Ethiopians captives, young and old, naked and barefoot, even with their buttocks uncovered, to the shame of Egypt.


By the way, I'm not really sure what you mean be, agreeing on something. What I'm supposedly agreeing on, with you?


The Southern Kingdom is indeed closer to Africa, that's a mathematical fact. The Northern Kingdom is indeed closer to the Caucasus. That's also a mathematical fact.



 

---

Posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 
The Southern Kingdom of Judah

The Southern Kingdom consisted of 2 tribes (Judah and Benjamin). The kingdom extended in the north as far as Bethel, while in the south it ended in the dry area known as the Negev. Its eastern and western boundaries were the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea. Jerusalem was its capital and it lasted from about 922-586 B.C., Judah had somewhat of a better record. Only 8 of Judah's kings served God. These were: Asa, Jehoshaphat, Joash, Amaziah, Uzziah, Jotham, Hezekiah, and Josiah. The rest of the 20 kings were wicked. In the southern kingdom there was only one dynasty, that of king David, except usurper Athaliah from the northern kingdom, who by marriage, broke into David's line, and interrupted the succession for 6 years, 20 kings in all. An average of about 16 years to a reign.

After Josiah there was no hope for Judah, the last 3 kings were all evil. The Babylonians swept down upon Jerusalem in 597 BC and captured it. A second attack led to Jerusalem's second defeat in 586 BC. Captives from both campaigns were taken to Babylonia to mark the captivity of the Southern Kingdom.
 

---

Posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 
Israel, Kingdom of - Meaning of Israel, Kingdom of in Smiths Bible Dictionary (Bible History Online)

• I. the kingdom. --The prophet Ahijah of Shiloh, who was commissioned in the latter days of Solomon to announce the division of the kingdom, left one tribe (Judah) to the house of David, and assigned ten to Jeroboam. 1Ki 11:31,35 These were probably Joseph (Ephraim and Manasseh), Issachar, Zebulun, Asher, Naphtali, Benjamin, Dan, Simeon, Gad and Reuben; Levi being intentionally omitted. Eventually the greater part of Benjamin, and probably the whole of Simeon and Dan, were included as if by common consent in the kingdom of Judah. With respect to the conquests of David, Moab appears to have been attached to the kingdom of Israel. 2Ki 3:4 so much of Syria as remained subject to Solomon, see 1Ki 11:24 would probably be claimed by his successor in the northern kingdom; and Ammon was at one time allied 2Ch 20:1 we know not how closely or how early, with Moab. The seacoast between Accho and Japho remained in the possession of Israel. The whole population may perhaps have amounted to at least three and a half millions.
• II. the capitals. --Shechem was the first capital of the new kingdom. 1Ki 12:25 Subsequently Tirzah became the royal residence, if not the capital, of Jeroboam 1Ki 14:17 and of his successors. cf. 1Ki 15:33; 16:8,17,23 Samaria was chosen by Omri. 1Ki 16:24 Jezreel was probably only a royal residence of some of the Israelitish kings.
• III. History. --The kingdom of Israel lasted 254 years, from B.C. 975 to B.C. 721. The detailed history of the kingdom will be found under the names of its nineteen kings. See chart of the kings of Judah and Israel, at the end of the work. A summary view may be taken in four periods: (a) B.C. 975-929. Jeroboam had not sufficient force of character in himself to make a lasting impression on his people. A king, but not a founder of a dynasty, he aimed at nothing beyond securing his present elevation. Baasha, in the midst of the army at Gibbethon, slew the son and successor of Jeroboam; Zimri, a captain of chariots, slew the son and successor of Baasha; Omri, the captain of the host, was chosen to punish Zimri; and after a civil war of four years he prevailed over Tibni, the choice of half the people. (b) B.C. 929-884. For forty-five years Israel wag governed by the house of Omri. The princes of his house cultivated an alliance with the king of Judah which was cemented by the marriage of Jehoram and Athaliah. The adoption of Baal-worship led to a reaction in the nation, to the moral triumph of the prophets in the person of Elijah, and to extinction of the house of Ahab in obedience to the bidding of Elisha. (c) B.C. 884-772. Unparalleled triumphs, but deeper humiliation, awaited the kingdom of Israel under the dynasty of Jehu. Hazael, the ablest king of Damascus, reduced Jehoahaz to the condition of a vassal, and triumphed for a time over both the disunited Hebrew kingdoms. Almost the first sign of the restoration of their strength was a war between them; and Jehoash, the grandson of Jehu, entered Jerusalem as the conqueror of Amaziah. Jehoash also turned the tide of war against the Syrians; and Jeroboam II., the most powerful of all the kings of of Israel, captured Damascus, and recovered the whole ancient frontier from Hamath to the Dead Sea. This short-lived greatness expired with the last king of Jehu's line. (d) B.C. 772-721. Military violence, it would seem, broke off the hereditary succession after the obscure and probably convulsed reign of Zachariah. An unsuccessful usurper, Shallum, is followed by the cruel Menahem, who, being unable to make head against the first attack of Assyria under Pul, became the agent of that monarch for the oppressive taxation of his subjects. Yet his power at home was sufficient to insure for his son and successor Pekahiah a ten-years reign, cut short by a bold usurper, Pekah. Abandoning the northern and transjordanic regions to the encroaching power of Assyria under Tiglath-pileser, he was very near subjugating Judah, with the help of Damascus, now the coequal ally of Israel. But Assyria interposing summarily put an end to the independence of Damascus, and perhaps was the indirect cause of the assassination of the baffled Pekah. The irresolute Hoshea, the next and last usurper, became tributary to his invaders Shalmaneser, betrayed the Assyrian to the rival monarchy of Egypt, and was punished by the loss of his liberty, and by the capture, after a three-years siege, of his strong capital, Samaria. Some gleanings of the ten tribes yet remained in the land after so many years of religious decline, moral debasement, national degradation, anarchy, bloodshed and deportation. Even these were gathered up by the conqueror and carried to Assyria, never again, as a distinct people, to occupy their portion of that goodly and pleasant land which their forefathers won under Joshua from the heathen. (Schaff Bib. Dic.) adds to this summary that "after the destruction of the kingdom of Israel, B.C. 721, the name 'Israel' began to be applied to the whole surviving people. No doubt many of the kingdom of Israel joined the later kingdom of the Jews after the captivity, and became part of that kingdom.--ED.)

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
these short legged bearded people don't resemble Egyptians

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Snakepit1:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
these short legged bearded people don't resemble Egyptians

---

Different haircut & different style of clothing. Remember that they EASILY passed for Egyptian when they wore Egyptian attire, as scripture states when Joseph passed for one (his brothers didn't recognize him, remember?) , Moses passed for one (being brought up by Egyptians, and being mistaken for one in Midian) and the whole congregation of Israel & Egyptians were described as being Egyptian when they went up to Jordan to bury Jacob.

They looked virtually indistinguishably from one another, phenotypically speaking. The Levitical laws are a testament to this (yellow/blonde-limp hair & white skin being equated to a curse/plague (leprosy) ) fact also.

There's no use discussing the phenotypical appearance to any of the indigenous peoples of North East Africa (which is what Arabia/Levant/Mesopotamia really is) .

---

You mean to tell be these short legged Israelites and Assyrians

Figure 1.--This Assyrian carving at Lachish shows Hebrews being led into exile by Sargon's son Sennacherib after Hezekiah's failed revolot (701 BC).


Assyrirans with Hebrew cpatives




look like Egyptians


SETI I, at
Abydos




RAMESSES II, Karnak



RAMESSES II, Karnak


^^^ look at how long and thin they are compared to the short stubby Assyrians and Hebrews who look similar
and the Assyrians and some of the Hebrews had big full curly beards that I'm not even sure the ancient Egyptians could grow

(assuming the Lacish art is realistically accuurate, it may not be)
 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 

“A splendid synagogue from the
Talmudic period was unearthed
recently during excavations at
Khirbet Hukuk in the northwestern Galilee
on the site where a Jewish community
existed between the fourth and sixth centuries C.E.“
 

---

Posted by Tukuler (Member # 19944) on :
 
According to Ruth Jacoby's chapter in the
Sixth Archaeological Conference in Israel
(Tel-Aviv, 14-15 March 1979) / Collectif. -
Jerusalem : Israel Exploration Society, 1979
the frieze is an execution in reality of how
Lachish's Judahites actually looked like.

From ANE

• >"The details that do exist in the reliefs could ... have been drawn wholly
  >from written campaign accounts and interviews with partcipants from both
  >sides. In this context two things should be remembered. First, many
  >inhabitants of captured cities were deported to Assyria, so it should not
  >have been difficult to Locate Lachishites to interview; Barnett observed
  >that men wearing the costume of the Lachishites were shown among the
  >laborers in the bull-hauling scenes of Court VI and in the royal bodyguard
  >in the Ishtar Temple procession. Second, Sennacherib's palace was being
  >built and decorated at the same time the first few campaigns were being
  >conducted; the relief designers could draw on recent memories, unclouded by
  >time, to insure the accuracy of their immages. Thus we might expect to find
  >greater accuracy in the early campaign reliefs of Sennacherib than in those
  >of Assyrian kings whose palaces date to the later part of their reign."
  >(Russell 1991:208f)

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:
[QB] According to Ruth Jacoby's chapter in the
Sixth Archaeological Conference in Israel
(Tel-Aviv, 14-15 March 1979) / Collectif. -
Jerusalem : Israel Exploration Society, 1979
the frieze is an execution in reality of how
Lachish's Judahites actually looked like.

---

who wrote the sentence>

" the frieze is an execution in reality of how
Lachish's Judahites actually looked like."

?
 

---

Posted by Tukuler (Member # 19944) on :
 
Notice these two bowing figures



the bottom one is assumed to Yehu king of Israel
but the top figure has the exact same head cover
and clothes. Comparing the retainers reveals the
same thing plus same foot coverings, iirc.


This is why some scholars doubt Yehu is depicted
instead of some servitor in Shalmanessar's employ.


Sennacherib's frieze of Judahites leaves no room
for doubt and has no serious dispute of accuracy.


As for limb proportions compare Assyrians to Kushites/Egyptians in Assyrian art not from various different sources of art style. Compare
the below in light of this quote "compared to the short stubby Assyrians and Hebrews" as far as who's "shortest" and "stubbiest" nevermind
the Assyrian artist's canon. And remember, in general, ancient Egyptians were short and ancient Sudanese were rather tall.


courtesy of Mike111

 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:


courtesy of Mike111

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:


Notice these two bowing figures



the bottom one is assumed to Yehu king of Israel
but the top figure has the exact same hat clothes
and shoes.


This is why some scholars doubt Yehu is depicted
instead of some servitor in Shalmanessar's employ.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:

Sennacherib's frieze of Judahites leaves no room
for doubt and has no serious dispute of accuracy.


As for limb proportions compare Assyrians to Kushites/Egyptians in Assyrian art not from various different sources of art style.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:

Remember, in general ancient Egyptians were
short and ancient Sudanese were rather tall.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:


Figure 1.--This Assyrian carving at Lachish shows Hebrews being led into exile by Sargon's son Sennacherib after Hezekiah's failed revolot (701 BC).


Assyrirans with Hebrew captives

---

^^^ If these are accurate these adults had the proportions of boys aged about 9 years old maybe

Their legs are very short compared to their trunks. This is the cold adapted ratio and is quite unlike much of the elongated types in the Egyptian art.
Did the people really have these child-like proportions or was it an artistic style? I don't know

The full facial hair is not typical of Africans although some have it.

There is no difference in the features between the Assyrian and the Hebrews

The ethnicity of the features of the bearded captives is hard to say, It could be like a lot of people. They are different from the figures marked "Nubian"
The other unbearded Hebrews marked "Hebrews being led into exile" appear to have a bulbous chin uncharacteristic of Africans, Swenet once said something similar about "concave facial profile"
Would the bearded Hebrews


Is their hair afro or curly? I don't know.
Again the Assyrian with the spear (?) has similar dotted hair an beard but the back portion of his hair straight.
The scale of each dot or curl is to large to be natural afro hair.
It's either an artistic representation of afro hair
Or afro hair that has been dreaded or treated in some way
or it's not afro hair but instead thicker strand curly.

I can't tell the the ethnicity of these people by looking at this.
And their proportions are so child like it cast doubt over the whole thing.
The fact that the Assyrian looks the same as the Hebrew except for hair suggest that like some of the Persepolis art they seem to have a generic human that they add different clothing and hairstyles to. Sometimes modern artists do this also


Now look at this Seti I



^^^ One would not know how close this was to how he looked but you can see the depiction of the human form is much more refined and precise compared to the Lacish figures



^^^ Is Black history ?
 

---

Posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:


The full facial hair is not typical of Africans although some have it.

---

You've been writing this shyt for years now.

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,: Their legs are very short compared to their trunks. This is the cold adapted ratio and is quite unlike much of the elongated types in the Egyptian art.
Did the people really have these child-like proportions or was it an artistic style? I don't know

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,: Is their hair afro or curly? I don't know.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:


The full facial hair is not typical of Africans although some have it.

---

You've been writing this shyt for years now.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Snakepit1:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
these short legged bearded people don't resemble Egyptians

---

Different haircut & different style of clothing. Remember that they EASILY passed for Egyptian when they wore Egyptian attire, as scripture states when Joseph passed for one (his brothers didn't recognize him, remember?) , Moses passed for one (being brought up by Egyptians, and being mistaken for one in Midian) and the whole congregation of Israel & Egyptians were described as being Egyptian when they went up to Jordan to bury Jacob.

They looked virtually indistinguishably from one another, phenotypically speaking. The Levitical laws are a testament to this (yellow/blonde-limp hair & white skin being equated to a curse/plague (leprosy) ) fact also.

There's no use discussing the phenotypical appearance to any of the indigenous peoples of North East Africa (which is what Arabia/Levant/Mesopotamia really is) .

---

The Egyptian Coptic scripts speak of Moses as having dark skin. It is also stated that he had little horns on his head, so did Aaron.


Kinda' like this head priest of the Egyptian Coptic church. But I agree, you'll find this phenotype in the " Arabia/Levant/Mesopotamia".




Btw, a lot of biblical talk is metaphorical.
 

---

Posted by Tukuler (Member # 19944) on :
 
Oh please I replaced the panarama
sized image before you replied
and you could've even zoomed it
before I substituted the focus.


Don't try dodging a 1:1 comparison
between Judahites and Kushites in
Assyrian art of the same epoch.

How different are trunk thigh and leg
lengths between the two in this art?

The 'stubbiness' you bank on seems
an Assyrian art canon practice as
is the height of the conquerors in
comparison to the conquered.


above courtesy of Mike111



The Judahites and Kushites are clearly
different in phenotype though there are
resemblances. Both have nappy hair for
instance, bushy if you prefer or lamb's
wool. Hebrew texts use both of the last
descriptions for the usual `Am Yisra'el
hair type.

We've done all this before. Redundancy
is a teacher. Feigned forgetfullness is
a poor excuse.

There's no confusing the tight knotty
hair of the Judahites for natural or
artificially loosely curled straight
hair. Even the beard and sideburns
tell the same story.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:
Notice these two bowing figures



the bottom one is assumed to Yehu king of Israel
but the top figure has the exact same head cover
and clothes. Comparing the retainers reveals the
same thing plus same foot coverings, iirc.


This is why some scholars doubt Yehu is depicted
instead of some servitor in Shalmanessar's employ.


Sennacherib's frieze of Judahites leaves no room
for doubt and has no serious dispute of accuracy.


As for limb proportions compare Assyrians to Kushites/Egyptians in Assyrian art not from various different sources of art style. Compare
the below in light of this quote "compared to the short stubby Assyrians and Hebrews" as far as who's "shortest" and "stubbiest" nevermind
the Assyrian artist's canon. And remember, in general, ancient Egyptians were short and ancient Sudanese were rather tall.


courtesy of Mike111

---

 

---

Posted by Tukuler (Member # 19944) on :
 
The horns of Moses is due to
a Xian mistranslation of the
Hebrew text describing Moses
as shining or as with light
radiating from him

וּמֹשֶׁה לֹא-יָדַע, כִּי קָרַן עוֹר פָּנָיו

The root qrn קָרַן in this
instance means shine not horn.

Moses knew not that the skin of his face sent forth beams

וּמֹשֶׁה and Moshe
לֹא-יָדַע didn't know
כִּי that
קָרַן radiated
עוֹר skin
פָּנָיו his face
 

---

Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
 
Since you all seem interested in identifying Assyrian victims, why not try your hand at identifying who the Alammu are.





Gypsum wall panel relief: showing prisoners from the town of Alammu. In the lower register Assyrian soldiers and auxiliaries bring the heads of slain prisoners to an officer of the king's guard carrying a long staff and large round shield; they are followed by prisoners handcuffed to the belt, one being executed en route, and women with children who, judging from their dress, are of Syrian type. The scene is set between a river plentiful in fish and a row of trees and vines which point to Syria or a western land. The careful distinctions made in the equipment of the soldiery are interesting. The auxiliaries wearing crested helmets carry round shields which seem to be wicker-work, and long pikes; they wear the knee-covering represented by hatching. One type of bowman is bareheaded, with a decorated fillet, and has no corselet, and the one executing a prisoner has crossed straps to hold the short skirt. The prisoners have over their plain shirts a shorter cloak of some other material, apparently woven. In the upper register two scribes are recording, one on a tablet and another on a parchment (?) roll, heads brought by auxiliaries.








Their hair seems short and tightly curled like "Some" Hebrews, which has caused some people to guess that they were Hebrews.

But others, looking at other things say they are eastern people.



SENNACHERIB’S SIEGE, ASSAULT, AND CONQUEST OF ALAMMU
Davide Nadali


The information available to us about the toponym of Alammu is provided only by theshort and fragmentary epigraph directly applied on the relief; on the contrary, the name of Alammu is totally absent in the Annals of the Second Campaign. The introduction of these short labels is meant to replace the long inscription that in the 9th-8th cent. BC divided the slabs into two registers: in the 7th cent. BC, all the surface of the slabs is occupied by the depicted events, while the text is relegated to simple and concise Unfortunately, the short epigraph applied just above the urban walls of the city is fragmentary, and the interpretation of the name is hypothetical. It would be one of the outposts conquered and destroyed by Sennacherib in his second campaign in which the Assyrian army advances in the impervious Zagros mountains, in the Diyala region as far as Ellipi in order to obtain the tribute of the Medes. The presumed identification with Alammu as an eastern town is partly supported by a letter of the time of Sargon II: it mentions the place of Alammu as the town where Urzana of Mu#a#ir takes refuge. Therefore, it would be a locality near Mu#a#ir in the Urartian-controlled territory north-east of Nineveh. The detailed representation of the fortress is also useful to define the place: the Ni-nevite sculptors carefully distinguish the architecture of the cities assaulted and con-quered by the Assyrian army, and the characteristic landscape of the region. Surely, the event of Room XIV does not identify a western centre, but a typical fortress of the eastern regions, well recognizable particularly thanks to the position on a peak and to the presence of a small river; the most significant aspects that help to mark the geographical region of Alammu are the architectural peculiarities of the urban walls, in particular the towers without windows and shields, characteristics of the western fortresses, but with the decoration of merlons on the top. Considering all these iconographical aspects, Alammu is clearly recognizable as a northeastern centre essentially due to three features:1. it has no projecting balconies, as, on the contrary, we may observe on the fortifications of the Palestinian city of Lachish;2. it stands on a higher position (on a mound) compared to the lower position of the Assyrian army;3. it has an arched entrance flanked by two towers. Finally, a careful observation of the military strategies applied by the Assyrian army during the siege contributes to the eastern characterization of Alammu: if we examine all the other conquests of eastern fortresses, it may be noted that the Assyrian army never uses artificial ramps in this context, but employs exclusively long ladders. This fact might yield a new insight on the different military tactics employed by the Assyrian army depending on the geographical region: it is possible that the ladders as well as the battering rams were included in the armaments kit beforehand, since the Assyrian army knew whether it had to employ the former or the latter in the siege operations or not. On the other hand, we should not rule out the possibility that these military devices could have been directly prepared in the battlefield.
 

---

Posted by Tukuler (Member # 19944) on :
 
Ah, a good research project for someone who's really
interested in it, maybe me when I have spare time.

My immediate uninformed response is maybe one of
the people of what is now Beluchistan maybe ???

Are those all the scenes that are available?


Apparently -alammu is only the last part of the
town name leading some to suppose it's Jerusalem.
 

---

Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
 
As we all know except for lioness, Black people have the greatest variety in genetic makeup.

Some Blacks have hair that grows extremely slowly and curly. This man has likely not cut his hair or shaved in years. Yet the hair is only the length that you see.

The Hebrew and Alammu depictions likely represent this type of phenotype.


 

---

Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:
Are those all the scenes that are available?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:

Remember, in general ancient Egyptians were
short and ancient Sudanese were rather tall.

---

that may be correct but do you have a source?

---

Seti II tomb KV15 sketch in the Denkmaeler
condensation of the Cattle of Ra BG:s30.
 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 
http://www.google.com/url?q=http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ajpa.10

Stature estimation in ancient Egyptians: a new technique based on anatomical reconstruction of stature.
Raxter

^^^ this very big paper, thread on it a while back. I forget details, later
 

---

Posted by Tukuler (Member # 19944) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Snakepit1:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

these short legged bearded people don't resemble Egyptians

---

Different haircut & different style of clothing. Remember that they EASILY passed for Egyptian when they wore Egyptian attire, as scripture states when Joseph passed for one (his brothers didn't recognize him, remember?) , Moses passed for one (being brought up by Egyptians, and being mistaken for one in Midian) and the whole congregation of Israel & Egyptians were described as being Egyptian when they went up to Jordan to bury Jacob.

They looked virtually indistinguishably from one another, phenotypically speaking. The Levitical laws are a testament to this (yellow/blonde-limp hair & white skin being equated to a curse/plague (leprosy) ) fact also.

There's no use discussing the phenotypical appearance to any of the indigenous peoples of North East Africa (which is what Arabia/Levant/Mesopotamia really is) .

---

• Art not thou that Egyptian ...
  
  Acts 21:38

• 
  One of the customs most zealously observed among the
  Aegyptians is this, that they rear every child that is born,
  and circumcise the males, and excise the females, as is
  also customary among the Judaeans, who also are Aegyptian
  in origin, as I have already stated in my account of them.
  
  Strabo

• 
  The majority of people say the Judaeans were
  those Ethiopians whom fear and hatred obliged
  to change their habitations, in the reign of king
  Cepheus.
  
  Tacitus -- The Histories Book V

 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 
Figure 1.--This Assyrian carving at Lachish shows Hebrews being led into exile by Sargon's son Sennacherib after Hezekiah's failed revolot (701 BC).


Assyrirans with Hebrew captives

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness:

these short legged bearded people don't resemble Egyptians

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness:


^^^ If these are accurate these adults had the proportions of boys aged about 9 years old maybe

Their legs are very short compared to their trunks. This is the cold adapted ratio and is quite unlike much of the elongated types in the Egyptian art.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova:


Northern Egypt near the Mediterranean shows the same pattern- limb length data puts its peoples closer to tropically adapted Africans that cold climate Europeans
"..sample populations available from northern Egypt from before the 1st Dynasty (Merimda, Maadi and Wadi Digla) turn out to be significantly different from sample populations from early Palestine and Byblos, suggesting a lack of common ancestors over a long time. If there was a south-north cline variation along the Nile valley it did not, from this limited evidence, continue smoothly on into southern Palestine. The limb-length proportions of males from the Egyptian sites group them with Africans rather than with Europeans." (Barry Kemp, "Ancient Egypt Anatomy of a Civilisation. (2005) Routledge. p. 52-60)

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness:

look at how long and thin they are compared to the short stubby Assyrians and Hebrews who look similar

---

^^when I said this it should have been assumed that I am not simply saying the people were short. I was saying in this Lachish
relief that their legs were short compared to their bodies, close to or about the same length as their arms.

It's very obvious looking at these reliefs that they don't look like Egyptians because of these proportions and their full beards.










^^^ As for the hair on that Lachish relief you can't exclude any of the above possibilities definatively to by what it is depiciting

______________________________________________



^^^ look at the dotted portions of the Assyrian's hair and beard.
How did they get like that? They look just like the dots one of the sets of figures that are believed to be maybe Hebrews.

I have looked for pictures of modern people who have beards like these Assyrians or Hebrews but I can't find any


^^^ this dude with the Philly beard doesn't have that big dotted look like on the reiief of the Hebrews or Assyrian.
The texture is much finer, the curls much smaller in scale
 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mike111:
[QB] Since you all seem interested in identifying Assyrian victims, why not try your hand at identifying who the Alammu are.








Their hair seems short and tightly curled like "Some" Hebrews, which has caused some people to guess that they were Hebrews.

But others, looking at other things say they are eastern people.



SENNACHERIB’S SIEGE, ASSAULT, AND CONQUEST OF ALAMMU
Davide Nadali

---

Look at the Assyrian on the right, his beard
It looks the same as the captive's




It's hard to say what kind of hair that actually is
You can't pin down the the ethnicity.

Are they black African types?
I don't get that impression


Bronze head of an Akkadian ruler, probably Sargon, Nineveh, c. 23rd – 22nd century BC. It might depict Sargon's grandson Naram-Sin
Reign c. 2334 BC – 2279 BC


^^^ This is 23rd – 22nd century BC

Look at the beard. Is it asupposd to be natural hair or is it a beard that was artifically stylized. It's hard to say
 

---

Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
 
Go away lioness, no one is interested in pursuing stupidity with you.
 

---

Posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

---

I don't understand what these pictures have to do with the subject at hand? What are you suggesting?







Isaiah 20:4 So shall the king of Assyria lead away the Egyptians prisoners, and the Ethiopians captives, young and old, naked and barefoot, even with their buttocks uncovered, to the shame of Egypt.
 

---

Posted by Tukuler (Member # 19944) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mike111:
Go away lioness, no one is interested in pursuing stupidity with you.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

---

I don't understand what these pictures have to do with the subject at hand? What are you suggesting?

---

-that a lot of different types of people could have hair like the sculpture.

and that you can't even tell exactly what type of hair that is supposed to be

and therefore you can't use this sculpture to say that these figures, supposedly Hebrew were necessarily black African type people, excluding other possibilities.

I'm not saying they are not black African type people.
I'm saying that you can't say they are for sure
or even be close to being sure.


You can only say black Africans are one of several types of people who might have that type of hair
That is an honest objective observation





^^^ similarly you can't assume these similar figures are for sure African type people with "nappy hair" as one poster said
 

---

Posted by Tukuler (Member # 19944) on :
 
Well we see here some of Asia's blacks also have nappy hair.
 

---

Posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
funny how, in trying to set me up, you left out the black people I had included.
I will put them back in for the quote

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

---

I don't understand what these pictures have to do with the subject at hand? What are you suggesting?

---

-that a lot of different types of people could have hair like the sculpture.

and that you can't even tell exactly what type of hair that is supposed to be

and therefore you can't use this sculpture to say that these figures, supposedly Hebrew were necessarily black African type people, excluding other possibilities.

I'm not saying they are not black African type people.
I'm saying that you can't say they are for sure
or even be close to being sure.


You can only say black Africans are one of several types of people who might have that type of hair
That is an honest objective observation





^^^ similarly you can't assume these similar figures are for sure African type people with "nappy hair" as one poster said

---

Yes, left out the African American.


But what is it these other toe have to do with the subject?
What is it your implying? You have them up every so what minute.


 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:
Well we see here some of Asia's blacks also have nappy hair.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:


But what is it these other two have to do with the subject?
What is it your implying? You have them up every so what minute.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:
Well we see here some of Asia's blacks also have nappy hair.

---

The Assyrians were African types?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:
Well we see here some of Asia's blacks also have nappy hair.

---

The Assyrians were African types?

---

Question..., did blacks ever make it to Assyria?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
Question..., did blacks ever make it to Assyria?

I said African types

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mike111:

Can you say what type of Human is NOT African type?

And how do you prove this when just about all science says that "ALL" Humans are Africans.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mike111:

Speaking of seeing for myself, to aid that effort, I took the trouble to provide an Albino skull for comparison.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:
Well we see here some of Asia's blacks also have nappy hair.

---

The Assyrians were African types?

---

Question..., did blacks ever make it to Assyria?

---

I said African types

"black" is a social construct term
It is therefore what it means is open to widely varied interpretation and is not, in recent thinking, considered a scientific term ("nappy" isn't either)

"African type" refers to a specific geographic location, Africa

Also, whether an African type person made it to some location 40-50,000 years ago is irrelevant to specific populations in Assyria or Lachish 2,700 years ago

Within that span of time people evolve adpatations to new climates, drift and isolation and admixture may also be at play

---

So, you imply that blacks never made it to Assyria, right?


I didn't mention 40-50,000 years ago, unless you're claiming that Assyria was that old. Anyway, ..."scientific term ("nappy" isn't either)", but caucasoid hair is?


So, did African types ever make it to Assyria?


 

---

Posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mike111:

Can you say what type of Human is NOT African type?

And how do you prove this when just about all science says that "ALL" Humans are Africans.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mike111:

Speaking of seeing for myself, to aid that effort, I took the trouble to provide an Albino skull for comparison.

---

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:
Lioness, what is an albino skull?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:
Lioness, what is an albino skull?

---

You'll have to ask Mike it's his dumb ass term

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
I cited it for contradicition

---

I don't understand how you can cite something for contradiction, if you don't know what it means in the first place.


Anyway, did African types ever make it to Assyria?




What's up with the Alammu?





Prisoners from the town of -alammu


Relief, Nineveh. British Museum



Capture of -alammu by konde, on Flickr



Capture of -alammu

After the capture of -alammu, the prisoners are brought before the Assyrian king. Some Assyrian soldiers carry the heads of the dead. The king Sennacherib, was shown in his chariot, but this part is now lost.
ca. 700-692 BC. From Nineveh, south-west palace.
WA 124786-7

British Museum
 

---

Posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 
Repost,

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

---

So you're suggesting that these people you've posted depict ancient Hebrews? Or that they depict those from the hieroglyphs being taken as captives to Assyria?

Also, who is the guy with dark hair, you've posted him allot, a lot of times on many different subjects, connecting him to many different regions of the world, including Africa.


Isaiah 20:4 So shall the king of Assyria lead away the Egyptians prisoners, and the Ethiopians captives, young and old, naked and barefoot, even with their buttocks uncovered, to the shame of Egypt.





 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 
repost

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
funny how, in trying to set me up, you left out the black people I had included....

To make comparisons on hair type I compared the Lachish relief to an African Amercian, European Americans and a Beja

So why are you asking me about a specific two ?

---

By now I have explained myself very clearly

You have nothing to contribute to the topic

You will destroy any thread, going in circles , reposting over and over again, not advancing any knowledge but only trying to play a game of test the lioness

I can't go with you there

It's very boring and repetative
 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 
Fragment of Assyrian relief from the
palace of Arshurbanipal at Nineveh
showing the storming of an Egyptian Town
and capture of Nubians, 645 B.C., British Museum






 

---

Posted by Tukuler (Member # 19944) on :
 
Enough already.

We show whole communities with nappy hair.

You show one individual here one individual
there without showing that individual's
community. Obviously because their hair
type is outside the norm of their people,
or even due to artificial treatment.


Our case is consistent

Your non-case is random


You want so desperately for the
Lachish Jews not to have nappy
hair.

You ignore historians who lived
during the time of Judaea and
ascribe Egyptian and Ethiopian
ancestry for Judaeans in general
and even write that members of
another race are adapting the
cultural heritage nationalizing
as Geriym Ssadaqiym (converting
to Judaea-ism).

"... other men, who, although of a different
race, have adopted the laws of the people."

Cassius Dio
Roman History 37:17:1

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Snakepit1:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

these short legged bearded people don't resemble Egyptians

---

Different haircut & different style of clothing. Remember that they EASILY passed for Egyptian when they wore Egyptian attire, as scripture states when Joseph passed for one (his brothers didn't recognize him, remember?) , Moses passed for one (being brought up by Egyptians, and being mistaken for one in Midian) and the whole congregation of Israel & Egyptians were described as being Egyptian when they went up to Jordan to bury Jacob.

They looked virtually indistinguishably from one another, phenotypically speaking. The Levitical laws are a testament to this (yellow/blonde-limp hair & white skin being equated to a curse/plague (leprosy) ) fact also.

There's no use discussing the phenotypical appearance to any of the indigenous peoples of North East Africa (which is what Arabia/Levant/Mesopotamia really is) .

---

.
Also in the Greek books Paul, the
Judean founder of Christianity was
mistaken for an Egyptian

• Art not thou that Egyptian ...
  
  Acts 21:38

This aligns with Greco-Latin thought

• 
  One of the customs most zealously observed among the
  Aegyptians is this, that they rear every child that is born,
  and circumcise the males, and excise the females, as is
  also customary among the Judaeans, who also are Aegyptian
  in origin, as I have already stated in my account of them.
  
  Strabo

then there's the most popular Roman
opinion that Judeans are an Æthiopian
subset.

• 
  The majority of people say the Judaeans were
  those Ethiopians whom fear and hatred obliged
  to change their habitations, in the reign of king
  Cepheus.
  
  Tacitus -- The Histories Book V

---

 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 
look up jewfro in google images
 

---

Posted by Tukuler (Member # 19944) on :
 
look up phuckup in google
 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 




Both pictures above are people from Lachish being deported by the Assyrians.
These figures appear in the same scene,
on the same path, with Assyrians in between them

Notice how the top figure at the ox cart has a skull cap-ish looking head gear and some kind of thing hanging down the side, perhaps a side lock, the figures in front perhaps women
Are the figures in both pictures Hebrews? Historians aren't sure.
Why do they look quite different ? It's odd
If one group is not Hebrew that could not be determined with certainty, I've read the sources


___________________________________

Now let's look at the hair/beards of the lower figures for a moment


part of Assyrian's hair


captive figure's beard

^^^^^ Both of these parts of their hair or beards look the same.
The dotted look, perhaps a bit of an artistic interpretation of hair not super realistic

However it is closer in scale to curly type of hair like the two people below:

The "dotted" look




^^^ this type of hair is not uncommon in Jews, it's called the "Jew fro"
Curly hair is also not that rare in Europeans.
It doesn't mean the Lachish figures are European.

It means you can't exclude a wide range of possibilites
for their ethnicity based on the
hair representation on these reliefs

____________________________________


The hair on those Lachish figures
is not as close to nappy hair with a much finer texture,
very small type frizzy curls like this >>

Nappy Nap





__________________________________________


and to use this relief to say for sure these figures formn Lachish are black African types is silly, you can't fool the lioness
 

---

Posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
repost

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
funny how, in trying to set me up, you left out the black people I had included....

To make comparisons on hair type I compared the Lachish relief to an African Amercian, European Americans and a Beja

So why are you asking me about a specific two ?

---

By now I have explained myself very clearly

You have nothing to contribute to the topic

You will destroy any thread, going in circles , reposting over and over again, not advancing any knowledge but only trying to play a game of test the lioness

I can't go with you there

It's very boring and repetative

---

I'm asking what they have to do with the topic and the account? But you give some weird answers. While you removed this biblical citation.


Isaiah 20:4 So shall the king of Assyria lead away the Egyptians prisoners, and the Ethiopians captives, young and old, naked and barefoot, even with their buttocks uncovered, to the shame of Egypt.


I keep asking you if African types ever reached Assyria, for some strange reason you keep avoiding this question. Yet, you keep posting pictures of "white people". On that note, did any Africans ever reach Europe during the Neolithic time?






 

---

Posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:



Both pictures above are people from Lachish being deported by the Assyrians.
These figures appear in the same scene,
on the same path, with Assyrians in between them

Notice how the top figure at the ox cart has a skull cap-ish looking head gear and some kind of thing hanging down the side, perhaps a side lock, the figures in front perhaps women
Are the figures in both pictures Hebrews? Historians aren't sure.
Why do they look quite different ? It's odd
If one group is not Hebrew that could not be determined with certainty, I've read the sources


___________________________________

Now let's look at the hair/beards of the lower figures for a moment


part of Assyrian's hair


captive figure's beard

^^^^^ Both of these parts of their hair or beards look the same.
The dotted look, perhaps a bit of an artistic interpretation of hair not super realistic

However it is closer in scale to curly type of hair like the two people below:

The "dotted" look




^^^ this type of hair is not uncommon in Jews, it's called the "Jew fro"
Curly hair is also not that rare in Europeans.
It doesn't mean the Lachish figures are European.

It means you can't exclude a wide range of possibilites
for their ethnicity based on the
hair representation on these reliefs

____________________________________


The hair on those Lachish figures
is not as close to nappy hair with a much finer texture,
very small type frizzy curls like this >>

Nappy Nap





__________________________________________


and to use this relief to say for sure these figures formn Lachish are black African types is silly, you can't fool the lioness

---

So, can you explain why curly and nappy hair is not strange in Europe. But loose to straight hair is to Africa?

We can now conclude that original Jews had "nappy Afro hair" and were taken as captives by the Assyrians, correct? And that "jews" without this hair nappy Afro hair texture are actually fake jews.


I think we are getting there, it's a slow process thou.


Isaiah 20:4 So shall the king of Assyria lead away the Egyptians prisoners, and the Ethiopians captives, young and old, naked and barefoot, even with their buttocks uncovered, to the shame of Egypt.



 

---

Posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
look up jewfro in google images

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:


Isaiah 20:4 So shall the king of Assyria lead away the Egyptians prisoners, and the Ethiopians captives, young and old, naked and barefoot, even with their buttocks uncovered, to the shame of Egypt.

---

why are you quoting this?

the side topic was the invasion of Lachish not of Egypt
As per the invasion of Egypt the Assyrians were said to have brought some of the captives to various parts of their Mesopotamian empire


 

---

Posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:


Isaiah 20:4 So shall the king of Assyria lead away the Egyptians prisoners, and the Ethiopians captives, young and old, naked and barefoot, even with their buttocks uncovered, to the shame of Egypt.

---

why are you quoting this?

the side topic was the invasion of Lachish not of Egypt
As per the invasion of Egypt the Assyrians were said to have brought some of the captives to various parts of their Mesopotamian empire

---

And who exactly invaded the region Lachish and took the captives, yep the Assyrians...


And you keep avoiding the real questions. Of Ethiopians/ Cush and Assyrians. And wether Africans entered the region of Assyria.


You rather post pictures of random folks.


Isaiah 20:4 So shall the king of Assyria lead away the Egyptians prisoners, and the Ethiopians captives, young and old, naked and barefoot, even with their buttocks uncovered, to the shame of Egypt.
 

---

Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
 
^Lioness has become an impediment to the progress of the forum. Those few who wish to contribute worthwhile thoughts and materials are swamped by her endless string of nonsense posts. Somebody needs to find Sammy and get her out of here.
 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 
Daily Life of the Nubians
By Robert Steven Bianch




_____________________________________

Lachich, city of Judea


The Lachish reliefs: Judean family
deported from the conquered city







detail form above scene


Ancient Near Eastern Art
By Dominique Collon



^^^ It could be true that these are a defeated Nubian garrison in Lachish bowing to Sennacherib

However I hesitate to agree because Nubians are portrayed at the palace of Arshurbanipal without beards (as well as later at Persepolis). I'm not sure about it




_________________________________________________________
 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 
Trollkillah I shouldn't reply to you at all

I already said this

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

As per the invasion of Egypt the Assyrians were said to have brought some of the captives to various parts of their Mesopotamian empire

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

The Lachish reliefs: A Judean family deported form the conquered city

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
Trollkillah I shouldn't reply to you at all

I already said this

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

As per the invasion of Egypt the Assyrians were said to have brought some of the captives to various parts of their Mesopotamian empire

---

so why do you keep asking me if Africans entered the region of Assyria. ?

In other words -yes-
the Assyrians were said to have brought some of the captives to various parts of their Mesopotamian empire, Assyria

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:
I keep asking this because it's critical in the analysis.

So, we now have come to the conclusion that indeed Africans/ Cushitics/ Ethiopians were taken as captives to Assyria by Assyrians.

We have this in depiction and in recorded historical account, correct?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:
we now have come to the conclusion that indeed Africans/ Cushitics/ Ethiopians were taken as captives to Assyria by Assyrians.

We have this in depiction and in recorded historical account, correct?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
Daily Life of the Nubians
By Robert Steven Bianch




_____________________________________

Lachich, city of Judea


The Lachish reliefs: Judean family
deported from the conquered city







detail form above scene


Ancient Near Eastern Art
By Dominique Collon



^^^ It could be true that these are a defeated Nubian garrison in Lachish bowing to Sennacherib

However I hesitate to agree because Nubians are portrayed at the palace of Arshurbanipal without beards (as well as later at Persepolis). I'm not sure about it




_________________________________________________________

---

Why do you demand, or rather is it required for them to have beards necessarily?
 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 
also the facial features and head shapes are different, the man below marked "Lachish" has a round head, the Nubians at right, oval shaped





Lachish man deported by Assyrians


^^^ here at left is the Lachish man being deported with his family, same as the head above.
To his right Assyrians are holding two different looking tuype men horizontally. They have dotted looking hair like the other Lachish head above and I have read they are being flayed, having their skin removed
 

---

Posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
also the facial features are different





Lachish man deported by Assyrians

---

Yes, people tend to have facial differences. I am not going to object that.

Those btw are Nuba people..., and have different facial features, especially the first two, compared to the last two. You happen to show the last to for a certain purpose.


I also notice that the "Lachish man being deported", is being in a different position as from the others, "tuype men". Who are being slaughtered. Why?




Isaiah 20:4 So shall the king of Assyria lead away the Egyptians prisoners, and the Ethiopians captives, young and old, naked and barefoot, even with their buttocks uncovered, to the shame of Egypt.
 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:




Isaiah 20:4 So shall the king of Assyria lead away the Egyptians prisoners, and the Ethiopians captives, young and old, naked and barefoot, even with their buttocks uncovered, to the shame of Egypt.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:




Isaiah 20:4 So shall the king of Assyria lead away the Egyptians prisoners, and the Ethiopians captives, young and old, naked and barefoot, even with their buttocks uncovered, to the shame of Egypt.

---

You have a picture of an Ethiopian who could also be classified as Nubian, who is also beardless and a few hundred years after the Siege of Lachish is in Iraq bringing gifts of gold, ivory, ebony and slaves to the Persians
not a naked captive as described in the Bible quote, that applies to an earlier period

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

You have a picture of an Ethiopian who could also be classified as Nubian, who is also beardless and a few hundred years after the Siege of Lachish is in Iraq bringing gifts of gold, ivory, ebony and slaves to the Persians
not a naked captive as described in the Bible quote, that applies to an earlier period

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mike111:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

You have a picture of an Ethiopian who could also be classified as Nubian, who is also beardless and a few hundred years after the Siege of Lachish is in Iraq bringing gifts of gold, ivory, ebony and slaves to the Persians
not a naked captive as described in the Bible quote, that applies to an earlier period

---

What evidence do you have that this man is a Nubian/Ethiopian?

A better question would be why do you continue to make false statements, even after you have been proven wrong many times?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:


So, did African types ever make it to Assyria?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:




Isaiah 20:4 So shall the king of Assyria lead away the Egyptians prisoners, and the Ethiopians captives, young and old, naked and barefoot, even with their buttocks uncovered, to the shame of Egypt.

---

You have a picture of an Ethiopian who could also be classified as Nubian, who is also beardless and a few hundred years after the Siege of Lachish is in Iraq bringing gifts of gold, ivory, ebony and slaves to the Persians
not a naked captive as described in the Bible quote, that applies to an earlier period

---

So, now deal with several groups who had happy Afro hair, who were taken as captives to Assyria by Assyrians. That's the confirmation I was looking for.


I think we are getting somewhere.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
also the facial features and head shapes are different, the man below marked "Lachish" has a round head, the Nubians at right, oval shaped





Lachish man deported by Assyrians


^^^ here at left is the Lachish man being deported with his family, same as the head above.
To his right Assyrians are holding two different looking tuype men horizontally. They have dotted looking hair like the other Lachish head above and I have read they are being flayed, having their skin removed

---

quote:

---

Nineveh, northern Iraq, Neo-Assyrian, about 700-681 BC

This alabaster panel was part of a series which decorated the walls of a room in the palace of King Sennacherib (reigned 704-681 BC). It tells the story of the siege and capture of the city of Lachish in 701 BC

The story continues from the previous panel (no. 9) of the relief. This section decorated a corner of the room.

Having been exiled from their city, the people of Lachish move through the countryside to be resettled elsewhere in the Assyrian Empire. Below them high officials and foreigners are being tortured and executed. It is likely that they are being flayed alive.

The foreigners are possibly officers from Nubia. The Nubians were seen as sharing responsibility for the rebellion. Much of Egypt at this time was ruled by a line of kings from Nubia (the Twenty-fifth Dynasty) who were keen to interfere in the politics of the Levant, to contain the threat of Assyrian expansion.

As Sennacherib's forces laid siege to Lachish, an Egyptian army appeared, led by a man called Taharqa, according to the Old Testament. He may be the later pharaoh of Egypt with the same name (690-664 BC).

Sennacherib's account claims that the rebels had called on the support of the kings of Egypt (Delta princes) and the Kings of Kush (Nubia). The armies clashed on the plain of Eltekeh. While Sennacherib claimed victory, he was still not able to capture Jerusalem.






The story continues on the next panel (no. 11) of the relief.

---

quote:

---

Stone relief from the South-West Palace of Sennacherib

Nineveh, northern Iraq
Neo-Assyrian, about 704-681 BC

Prisoners, probably from Phoenicia or Palestine, playing lyres

This is one small surviving fragment from a much larger composition. The scale effect on the background represents rough ground.

The musicians are often thought to have come from the state of Judah, though there is no evidence for this. The style of their dress is different to that worn by the people of Lachish (see for example, a panel showing the siege of Lachish). They are, however, almost certainly Western or Levantine in origin.

Music was clearly an important part of court life and Assyrian kings often refer to taking musicians into captivity as part of the deportation of defeated peoples. There is evidence of music in religious practice at an earlier period, but reliefs like this provide the first images of musical instruments in an ancient Near Eastern society that are not connected with a religious ceremony.

The musicians are playing lyres. They hold them more or less horizontally and use a plectrum. This type of lyre was possibly introduced into Assyria from the West in the first half of the second millennium BC. Only a few are known and the chronology and classification of the many forms of lyre in the Near East in the first millennium is neither complete nor certain.

J.E. Reade, Assyrian sculpture-1 (London, The British Museum Press, 1998)

---

http://www.britishmuseum.org/explore/highlights/highlight_objects/me/s/stone_relief,_sw_palace.aspx



 

---

Posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mike111:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

You have a picture of an Ethiopian who could also be classified as Nubian, who is also beardless and a few hundred years after the Siege of Lachish is in Iraq bringing gifts of gold, ivory, ebony and slaves to the Persians
not a naked captive as described in the Bible quote, that applies to an earlier period

---

What evidence do you have that this man is a Nubian/Ethiopian?

A better question would be why do you continue to make false statements, even after you have been proven wrong many times?

---

I am aware you don't think this is an African

Trollkillah first put up this picture in the thread

Let's let him verify the ethnicity of it, he left out info on it

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:


So, did African types ever make it to Assyria?

---

you think that's an African Trollkillah?

---

A Nubian (or Kushite) with an elephant's tusk



 

---

Posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova (Member # 15718) on :
 


Good info lioness. What do you have on the Nubians
as to their renown in chariotry and horses?
 

---

Posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:


But what is it these other two have to do with the subject?
What is it your implying? You have them up every so what minute.

---

The subject of this thread is the Black Obelisk of Shalmaneser III located in Northen Iraq.
People didn't like that subject so I allowed myself to participate in a change of subject to reliefs in Lachish, Israel

To make comparisons on hair type I compared the Lachish relief to an African Amercian, European Americans and a Beja

So why are you asking me about a specific two ?

---

 

---

Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
 
Trollkillah # Ish Gebor - Neither Nubians nor Ethiopians were conquered by the Persians. Consequently they did not bring tribute to the Persians.

Identifying that delegation as Ethiopians was begun by the lying racists at the Oriental Institute of Chicago University, who like most Albinos, seek to have the world believe that Blacks only existed in Africa.




Ignoring the actual history, they based their identification solely on the mis-identification of the Antelope which they thought was the African Okapi:




The Antelope is actually the Asian Nilgai:





NOTE THE POSITION OF THE HORNS RELATIVE TO THE TOP OF THE HEAD.

(The Okapi's horns are midway down the head, NOT on top of the head).






Other Persian artifacts make it plain that these short haired Asian people (probably the Maka) were very close to the Persians, and were considered central supporters of the Empire.



 

---

Posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 
^ I see the matchings.

quote:

---

Stone relief from the South-West Palace of Sennacherib

Nineveh, northern Iraq
Neo-Assyrian, about 704-681 BC

Prisoners, probably from Phoenicia or Palestine, playing lyres

This is one small surviving fragment from a much larger composition. The scale effect on the background represents rough ground.

The musicians are often thought to have come from the state of Judah, though there is no evidence for this. The style of their dress is different to that worn by the people of Lachish (see for example, a panel showing the siege of Lachish). They are, however, almost certainly Western or Levantine in origin.

Music was clearly an important part of court life and Assyrian kings often refer to taking musicians into captivity as part of the deportation of defeated peoples. There is evidence of music in religious practice at an earlier period, but reliefs like this provide the first images of musical instruments in an ancient Near Eastern society that are not connected with a religious ceremony.

The musicians are playing lyres. They hold them more or less horizontally and use a plectrum. This type of lyre was possibly introduced into Assyria from the West in the first half of the second millennium BC. Only a few are known and the chronology and classification of the many forms of lyre in the Near East in the first millennium is neither complete nor certain.

J.E. Reade, Assyrian sculpture-1 (London, The British Museum Press, 1998)

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:





[/QB]

---

Please identify the metal helmet


The left portion of the helmet hangs down, that is probably the back
Therefore the curl at the top goes forward

The figures on the relief, on the other hand, have hats that may be made of cloth
The flop down portion goes backward, there is no flower-like ornament and there is a crease like curved line, which may be a fold which does not appear on the metal helmet

I don't believe it's a match
 

---

Posted by Tukuler (Member # 19944) on :
 
What fool believes all black people look alike?
Asiatic blacks do not 1:1 resemble African blacks.
Indeed, there's no 1:1 resemblance between various
African blacks themselves.
 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 
Hellenizing Art in Ancient Nubia 300 B.C. - AD 250 and Its Egyptian Models ...
By László Török, Laszlo Toro







Herodotus

Book 3 - THALIA

[3.97] Such then were the governments, and such the amounts of tribute at which they were assessed respectively. Persia alone has not been reckoned among the tributaries - and for this reason, because the country of the Persians is altogether exempt from tax. The following peoples paid no settled tribute, but brought gifts to the king: first, the Ethiopians bordering upon Egypt, who were reduced by Cambyses when he made war on the long-lived Ethiopians, and who dwell about the sacred city of Nysa, and have festivals in honour of Bacchus. The grain on which they and their next neighbours feed is the same as that used by the Calantian Indians. Their dwelling-houses are under ground. Every third year these two nations brought - and they still bring to my day - two choenices of virgin gold, two hundred logs of ebony, five Ethiopian boys, and twenty elephant tusks. The Colchians, and the neighbouring tribes who dwell between them and the Caucasus - for so far the Persian rule reaches, while north of the Caucasus no one fears them any longer - undertook to furnish a gift, which in my day was still brought every fifth year, consisting of a hundred boys, and the same number of maidens. The Arabs brought every year a thousand talents of frankincense. Such were the gifts which the king received over and above the tribute-money.


Three boys, one carrying possibly an elephant tusk,
an adult Persian(?) man at right. These are possibly Nubian boys, however there are not five of them and they are not being led by a Nubian


Archers formed the core of Nubian armies that vied with Egypt for control over parts of the Nile valley, conquered Egypt in the 8th century BC, and confronted the troops of the Assyrian empire. The skill of Nubian archers made them valued members in the military forces of other lands. Egyptian texts as early as 2400 BC note Nubians in Egyptian armies. Representations of Nubian warriors appear in Egyptian tomb models, reliefs, and paintings in all periods of ancient Egyptian history. Nubian archers also served as warriors in the imperial army of Persia in the first millennium BC.


_____________________________________________

Dictionary of African Biography, Volumes 1-6
edited by Emmanuel Kwaku Akyeampong,





 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:
What fool believes all black people look alike?
Asiatic blacks do not 1:1 resemble African blacks.
Indeed, there's no 1:1 resemblance between various
African blacks themselves.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:

---

Please identify the metal helmet


The left portion of the helmet hangs down, that is probably the back
Therefore the curl at the top goes forward

The figures on the relief, on the other hand, have hats that may be made of cloth
The flop down portion goes backward, there is no flower-like ornament and there is a crease like curved line, which may be a fold which does not appear on the metal helmet

I don't believe it's a match

---

Thanks for proving that you don't know what the heck you're talking about, with those blather excuses.


It was a very popular headwear, especially the origin of this headwear makes it even more interesting.


These are indeed helmets, but there are also "soft versions" made from yarn (cloth). And is being warn with the tip to the front or either to the back. It's essentially the same headwear.





Helmet in the form of a Kedaris (the headdress popular among the nomadic peoples of Anatolia), with elaborately chased patterning imitating the quilted fabric, and rosettes on the sides and peak.


http://www.mfa.org/collections/object/helmet-155932
 

---

Posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:
What fool believes all black people look alike?
Asiatic blacks do not 1:1 resemble African blacks.
Indeed, there's no 1:1 resemblance between various
African blacks themselves.

---

when you say "blacks" do you mean black haired people?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
Hellenizing Art in Ancient Nubia 300 B.C. - AD 250 and Its Egyptian Models ...
By László Török, Laszlo Toro







Herodotus

Book 3 - THALIA

[3.97] Such then were the governments, and such the amounts of tribute at which they were assessed respectively. Persia alone has not been reckoned among the tributaries - and for this reason, because the country of the Persians is altogether exempt from tax. The following peoples paid no settled tribute, but brought gifts to the king: first, the Ethiopians bordering upon Egypt, who were reduced by Cambyses when he made war on the long-lived Ethiopians, and who dwell about the sacred city of Nysa, and have festivals in honour of Bacchus. The grain on which they and their next neighbours feed is the same as that used by the Calantian Indians. Their dwelling-houses are under ground. Every third year these two nations brought - and they still bring to my day - two choenices of virgin gold, two hundred logs of ebony, five Ethiopian boys, and twenty elephant tusks. The Colchians, and the neighbouring tribes who dwell between them and the Caucasus - for so far the Persian rule reaches, while north of the Caucasus no one fears them any longer - undertook to furnish a gift, which in my day was still brought every fifth year, consisting of a hundred boys, and the same number of maidens. The Arabs brought every year a thousand talents of frankincense. Such were the gifts which the king received over and above the tribute-money.


Three boys, one carrying possibly an elephant tusk,
an adult Persian(?) man at right. These are possibly Nubian boys, however there are not five of them and they are not being led by a Nubian


Archers formed the core of Nubian armies that vied with Egypt for control over parts of the Nile valley, conquered Egypt in the 8th century BC, and confronted the troops of the Assyrian empire. The skill of Nubian archers made them valued members in the military forces of other lands. Egyptian texts as early as 2400 BC note Nubians in Egyptian armies. Representations of Nubian warriors appear in Egyptian tomb models, reliefs, and paintings in all periods of ancient Egyptian history. Nubian archers also served as warriors in the imperial army of Persia in the first millennium BC.


_____________________________________________

Dictionary of African Biography, Volumes 1-6
edited by Emmanuel Kwaku Akyeampong,

---

quote:

---

"A potential issue that could in theory influence our findings is that the exact population contributing to African ancestry in West Eurasians is unknown. To gain insight into the African source populations, we carried out PCA analyses, which suggested that the African ancestry in West Eurasians is at least as closely related to East Africans (e.g. Hapmap3 Luhya (LWK)) as to West Africans (e.g. Nigerian Yoruba (YRI)) (the same analyses show that there is no evidence of relatedness to Chadic populations like Bulala) (Text S5 and Figure S12).

We also used the 4 Population Test to assess whether the tree ((LWK, YRI),(West Eurasian, CEU)) is consistent with the data, and found no evidence for a violation,

which is consistent with a mixture of either West African or East African ancestors or both contributing to the African ancestry in West Eurasians (Table S14; Figure S13). Historically, a mixture of West and East African ancestry is plausible, since African gene flow into West Eurasia is documented from both West Africa during Roman times [34] and from East Africa during migrations from Egypt [7]. It is important to point out, however, that the difficulty of pinpointing the exact African source population is not expected to bias our inferences about the total proportion and date of mixture. The f4 Ancestry Estimation method is unbiased even when we use a poor surrogates for the true ancestral African population (as long as the phylogeny is correct), as we confirmed by repeating analyses replacing YRI with LWK, and obtaining similar results (Table S15).Our ROLLOFF admixture date estimates are also similar whether we use LWK or YRI to represent ancestral African population (Table S15), as predicted by the theory.

---

quote:

---

8 Cush had a son named Nimrod, who became the world's first great conqueror. 9 By the Lord's help he was a great hunter, and that is why people say, “May the Lord make you as great a hunter as Nimrod!” 10 At first his kingdom included Babylon, Erech, and Accad, all three of them in Babylonia. 11 From that land he went to Assyria and built the cities of Nineveh, Rehoboth Ir, Calah,

12 and Resen, which is between Nineveh and the great city of Calah.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:



Herodotus

Book 3 - THALIA

[3.97] Such then were the governments, and such the amounts of tribute at which they were assessed respectively. Persia alone has not been reckoned among the tributaries - and for this reason, because the country of the Persians is altogether exempt from tax. The following peoples paid no settled tribute, but brought gifts to the king: first, the Ethiopians bordering upon Egypt, who were reduced by Cambyses when he made war on the long-lived Ethiopians, and who dwell about the sacred city of Nysa, and have festivals in honour of Bacchus. The grain on which they and their next neighbours feed is the same as that used by the Calantian Indians. Their dwelling-houses are under ground. Every third year these two nations brought - and they still bring to my day - two choenices of virgin gold, two hundred logs of ebony, five Ethiopian boys, and twenty elephant tusks. The Colchians, and the neighbouring tribes who dwell between them and the Caucasus - for so far the Persian rule reaches, while north of the Caucasus no one fears them any longer - undertook to furnish a gift, which in my day was still brought every fifth year, consisting of a hundred boys, and the same number of maidens. The Arabs brought every year a thousand talents of frankincense. Such were the gifts which the king received over and above the tribute-money.


Three boys, one carrying possibly an elephant tusk,
an adult Persian(?) man at right. These are possibly Nubian boys, however there are not five of them and they are not being led by a Nubian

---

quote:

---

For many years now there has been a debate about whether the ancient peoples of the Nile Valley were 'black' or 'white'. Much Western scholarship, particularly in the early twentieth century, refused to accept that black peoples could have built such a great civilisation.

In 1930 for example, Charles Seligman (1873-1940), an English ethnologist who wrote a book titled 'The Races of Africa' said that the ancient civilisation of Egypt was created by a race he called 'Hamites', who he regarded as coming from Asia.

Some African historians, including the Professor of Anthropology at the University of Nairobi, Simiyu Wandibba, believe that European writers developed such theories to discredit Africa and make it easier for the continent to be colonised.

"In the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries there were theories that Africa was inhabited much later than Asia and that the people occupying Africa today were the result of waves of migration from western Asia, the Middle East and the Far East.

I want to say that this is not true. But if you want to rule a people, you don't want to give them credit."
Professor Simiyu Wandibba, University of Nairobi.

One of the main academic proponents of the view that the ancient Egyptian civilisation was founded by black Africans was the Senegalese historian Cheikh Anta Diop.

"Ancient Egypt was a Negro civilisation. The history of Black Africa will remain suspended in the air and cannot be written correctly until African historians dare to connect it with the history of Egypt. The African historian who evades the problem of Egypt is neither modest nor objective nor unruffled. He is ignorant, cowardly and neurotic. The ancient Egyptians were Negroes. The moral fruit of their civilisation is to be counted among the assets of the Black world."
Cheikh Anta Diop, taken from The African Origin of Civilisation.

In his two major works Nations Negres et Culture and Anteriorite des Civilizations Negres he profoundly influenced thinking about Africa around the world.

Cheikh Anta Diop argues that:


As humankind began in East Africa it was likely that people were black skinned.


People populated other continents by moving either through the Sahara or the Nile Valley.


In the period before the start of the great Egyptian dynasties the whole of the Nile river basin was taken over by these negroid peoples.


To support his theory, Diop cited the writings of several Greek and Latin writers who had described the ancient Egyptians.

The Greek historian Herodotus, for example, described the Colchians of the Black Sea shores as "Egyptians by race" and pointed out they had "black skins and kinky hair."

Apollodorus, the Greek philosopher, described Egypt as "the country of the black-footed ones" and the Latin historian Ammianus Marcellinus said "the men of Egypt are mostly brown or black with a skinny desiccated look."

Diop also argued that the Egyptians themselves described their race as black and that there were close affinities between the ancient Egyptian tongue and the languages of Africa.

The issue of the peopling of Egypt came to a head in 1974 when UNESCO hosted a conference in Cairo aimed at discussing the latest research.

The symposium provoked ferocious debate and many of Diop's theories were strongly challenged, however, the meeting concluded with the following statement, "the overall results…will be very differently assessed by the various participants."

The closing statement also pointed out that not all participants had prepared for the conference as painstakingly as Professor Diop or his academic ally Theophile Obenga of the Democratic Republic of Congo.

The argument still remains largely unresolved to the extent that UNESCO's General History of Africa is somewhat cautious in its final analysis of the issue.

"It is more than probable that the African strain, black or light, is preponderant in the Ancient Egyptian, but in the present state of our knowledge it is impossible to say more."

The issue was given more impetus with the publication in 1987 of Martin Bernal's Black Athena in which he argued that Classical civilisation had it roots deep in Afroasiatic cultures which had been systematically suppressed for mainly racist reasons.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:
Well we see here some of Asia's blacks also have nappy hair.

---

The Assyrians were African types?

---

Question..., did blacks ever make it to Assyria?

---

I said African types

"black" is a social construct term
It is therefore what it means is open to widely varied interpretation and is not, in recent thinking, considered a scientific term ("nappy" isn't either)

"African type" refers to a specific geographic location, Africa

Also, whether an African type person made it to some location 40-50,000 years ago is irrelevant to specific populations in Assyria or Lachish 2,700 years ago

Within that span of time people evolve adpatations to new climates, drift and isolation and admixture may also be at play

---

quote:

---

8 Cush had a son named Nimrod, who became the world's first great conqueror. 9 By the Lord's help he was a great hunter, and that is why people say, “May the Lord make you as great a hunter as Nimrod!” 10 At first his kingdom included Babylon, Erech, and Accad, all three of them in Babylonia. 11 From that land he went to Assyria and built the cities of Nineveh, Rehoboth Ir, Calah,

12 and Resen, which is between Nineveh and the great city of Calah.

---

quote:

---

"A potential issue that could in theory influence our findings is that the exact population contributing to African ancestry in West Eurasians is unknown. To gain insight into the African source populations, we carried out PCA analyses, which suggested that the African ancestry in West Eurasians is at least as closely related to East Africans (e.g. Hapmap3 Luhya (LWK)) as to West Africans (e.g. Nigerian Yoruba (YRI)) (the same analyses show that there is no evidence of relatedness to Chadic populations like Bulala) (Text S5 and Figure S12).

We also used the 4 Population Test to assess whether the tree ((LWK, YRI),(West Eurasian, CEU)) is consistent with the data, and found no evidence for a violation,

which is consistent with a mixture of either West African or East African ancestors or both contributing to the African ancestry in West Eurasians (Table S14; Figure S13). Historically, a mixture of West and East African ancestry is plausible, since African gene flow into West Eurasia is documented from both West Africa during Roman times [34] and from East Africa during migrations from Egypt [7]. It is important to point out, however, that the difficulty of pinpointing the exact African source population is not expected to bias our inferences about the total proportion and date of mixture. The f4 Ancestry Estimation method is unbiased even when we use a poor surrogates for the true ancestral African population (as long as the phylogeny is correct), as we confirmed by repeating analyses replacing YRI with LWK, and obtaining similar results (Table S15).Our ROLLOFF admixture date estimates are also similar whether we use LWK or YRI to represent ancestral African population (Table S15), as predicted by the theory.

---

quote:

---

"These results indicate that the ancestor of all Semitic languages in our dataset was being spoken in the Near East no earlier than approximately 7400 YBP, after having after having diverged from Afroasiatic in Africa"

(i) Semitic had an Early Bronze Age origin (approx. 5750 YBP) in the Levant, followed by an expansion of Akkadian into Mesopotamia;

(ii) Central and South Semitic diverged earlier than previously thought throughout the Levant during the Early to Middle Bronze Age transition; and

(iii) Ethiosemitic arose as the result of a single, possibly pre-Aksumite, introduction of a lineage from southern Arabia to the Horn of Africa approximately 2800 YBP.

---

-- (Ehret 1995; Ehret et al. 2004; Blench 2006).


 

---

Posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova:


Good info lioness. What do you have on the Nubians
as to their renown in chariotry and horses?

---

quote:

---

Based on the unrivaled collections of the British Museum, this extensively illustrated book is a superb introduction to the art of the ancient Near East from the eighth millennium B.C. to Alexander the Great. Often described as the cradle of civilization, the ancient Near East was the birthplace of writing, monumental sculpture, and wheel-made pottery. Dominique Collon provides a unique view into this ancient world, from village settlements to grand palaces to burial sites.


Collon situates the Museum's most beautiful and interesting artifacts against their historical and cultural background. Among the works featured are painted pottery, figurines, cylinder seals, and stone amulets from the earliest village cultures before 3000 B.C. Also here are magnificent finds from graves at Alaca Huyuk in Turkey and the Royal Cemetery at Ur, including jewelry, musical instruments, and the famous Royal Standard. Sculpted reliefs from Assyrian palaces and Sasanian metalwork round out the collection. In her final chapter, Collon shows how art from the ancient Near East resonates in our own world today.


A welcome addition is a Mesopotamian chronology summarizing recent astronomical and textual data, compiled by C.B.F. Walker especially for this book. Based on the unrivaled collections of the British Museum, this extensively illustrated book is a superb introduction to the art of the ancient Near East from the eighth millennium B.C. to Alexander the Great. Often described as the cradle of civilization, the ancient Near East was the birthplace of writing, monumental sculpture, and wheel-made pottery. Dominique Collon provides a unique view into this ancient world, from village settlements to grand palaces to burial sites.
Collon situates the Museum's most beautiful and interesting artifacts against their historical and cultural background. Among the works featured are painted pottery, figurines, cylinder seals, and stone amulets from the earliest village cultures before 3000 B.C. Also here are magnificent finds from graves at Alaca Huyuk in Turkey and the Royal Cemetery at Ur, including jewelry, musical instruments, and the famous Royal Standard. Sculpted reliefs from Assyrian palaces and Sasanian metalwork round out the collection. In her final chapter, Collon shows how art from the ancient Near East resonates in our own world today.
A welcome addition is a Mesopotamian chronology summarizing recent astronomical and textual data, compiled by C.B.F. Walker especially for this book.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:

So, on what do you base that these three "Nubian" figures were "boys"?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:

So, on what do you base that these three "Nubian" figures were "boys"?

---

height relative to other figures on the relief

If not boys they would be pygmies

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
^^^ Mike prefers no African interactions outside of Africa

and he tries to hide it by blaming "albinos"

that is his ideology. that Africans didn't do shyt outside of Africa
All people who look like Africans outside of Africa are not any more African than Tom Cruise
It is his ashamed of being African illness


"black", the English word for Negro is a social construct term
It is therefore what it means is open to widely varied interpretation

and is not, in recent thinking, a scientific term or useful to anthropology

"dark skin" is somehwat relative but it is free from the connotions and inaccurate term "black"

This is 2014, people are identified by genes rather than by skin color

A dark skinned person in Peru, Papua New Guinea or Angola might all have dark skin but nothing else in common.

Calling them "black" and other people "white" is as random as classifying people by hair, eye color or height
and is simplistic and imprecise even when attempting to describe traits

In America black is a convenient social term mention someone of recent African descent, of the past several hundred years.
I use it in this way

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mike111:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
^^^ Mike prefers no African interactions outside of Africa

and he tries to hide it by blaming "albinos"

that is his ideology. that Africans didn't do shyt outside of Africa
All people who look like Africans outside of Africa are not any more African than Tom Cruise
It is his ashamed of being African illness


"black", the English word for Negro is a social construct term
It is therefore what it means is open to widely varied interpretation

and is not, in recent thinking, a scientific term or useful to anthropology

"dark skin" is somehwat relative but it is free from the connotions and inaccurate term "black"

This is 2014, people are identified by genes rather than by skin color

A dark skinned person in Peru, Papua New Guinea or Angola might all have dark skin but nothing else in common.

Calling them "black" and other people "white" is as random as classifying people by hair, eye color or height
and is simplistic and imprecise even when attempting to describe traits

In America black is a convenient social term mention someone of recent African descent, of the past several hundred years.
I use it in this way

---

Oh what a disgusting twister of truth you are.

If the Russian in Siberia is White, and the Settler half way around the world in Chile is White, then why would Blacks in closer proximity not be Blacks?

The fact is that your only purpose here is to further confuse ignorant Blacks.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mike111:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
^^^ Mike prefers no African interactions outside of Africa

and he tries to hide it by blaming "albinos"

that is his ideology. that Africans didn't do shyt outside of Africa
All people who look like Africans outside of Africa are not any more African than Tom Cruise
It is his ashamed of being African illness


"black", the English word for Negro is a social construct term
It is therefore what it means is open to widely varied interpretation

and is not, in recent thinking, a scientific term or useful to anthropology

"dark skin" is somehwat relative but it is free from the connotions and inaccurate term "black"

This is 2014, people are identified by genes rather than by skin color

A dark skinned person in Peru, Papua New Guinea or Angola might all have dark skin but nothing else in common.

Calling them "black" and other people "white" is as random as classifying people by hair, eye color or height
and is simplistic and imprecise even when attempting to describe traits

In America black is a convenient social term mention someone of recent African descent, of the past several hundred years.
I use it in this way

---

Oh what a disgusting twister of truth you are.

If the Russian in Siberia is White, and the Settler half way around the world in Chile is White, then why would Blacks in closer proximity not be Blacks?

The fact is that your only purpose here is to further confuse ignorant Blacks.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
^^^ Mike prefers no African interactions outside of Africa

and he tries to hide it by blaming "albinos"

that is his ideology. that Africans didn't do shyt outside of Africa
All people who look like Africans outside of Africa are not any more African than Tom Cruise
It is his ashamed of being African illness


"black", the English word for Negro is a social construct term
It is therefore what it means is open to widely varied interpretation

and is not, in recent thinking, a scientific term or useful to anthropology

"dark skin" is somehwat relative but it is free from the connotions and inaccurate term "black"

This is 2014, people are identified by genes rather than by skin color

A dark skinned person in Peru, Papua New Guinea or Angola might all have dark skin but nothing else in common.

Calling them "black" and other people "white" is as random as classifying people by hair, eye color or height
and is simplistic and imprecise even when attempting to describe traits

In America black is a convenient social term mentiong someone of recent African descent, of the past several hundred years.
I use it in this way

---

That's a funny claim since you yourself claimed that Africans never moved out of Africa (during recent time), only 40 thousand years ago. Yet, Africa had multiple "back migrations, and they all were "Caucasians", all throughout the course of history.

And from your own statement you've just said that black is variate. And is found all over the globe. Meaning black is not solely within Africa diverse, but even more so outside of Africa.
 

---

Posted by Tukuler (Member # 19944) on :
 
In this photo we can see detail clearer than
what's been posted up to now. But even under
lower resolution it amazes me anyone would
compare this short and growing on the neck
woolly hair on all Judaean males to never
a community just random one here one there
white people with big bushy hair type or style
falls on the neck but doesn't grow on it.

zoom zoom


In comparing these Jews to their Asssyrian conquerers, as I've stated before, their hair is nothing alike. Neither are their beards.
 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:

That's a funny claim since you yourself claimed that Africans never moved out of Africa (during recent time),

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:


you've just said that black is variate. And is found all over the globe. Meaning black is not solely within Africa diverse, but even more so outside of Africa.

---

that's a lie,

quote me saying that
 

---

Posted by Tukuler (Member # 19944) on :
 
C'mon we've gone over Eastern "Ethiopians" and
the black people of Susa, even the opinion of
some 19th century anthropologist, Dieulafoy I
think, on the blacks of the Persian Gulf.

Stop the lies and melanophobic nonsense.

Asiatic blacks are in ancient world primary documents spanning from the Levant to India.
 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 


Looking at this it becomes even more remarkable that someone would think these people look more African than Near Eastern.
And they may not even be native Judeans






^^^^ these are other figures, Lachish familes being deported by the Assyrians, but you don't see them on Egyptsearch. There's a reason for that. Many African Americans prefer to be Hebrew rather than West African. It's one of our ongoing shame based recongigurations, example, people descendants of places like Ghana or Benin calling themsleves "The Asiatic Black Man"

What one notices is that these deported familes don't have the dotted hair and are dressed differently from the dotted hair types. They appear to be a different ethnicity

So are all the above people even Judeans ?
One might say it could be either type or both, yet one group is shown with families and unless I've overlooked something the curly haired figures aren't.

Some scholars have suggested that they might be foreign fighters who were helping to protect the city

 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 


this is a curly haired Elamite with dark skin from Persepolis


Winged sphinx from Darius' from palace at Susa.(Louvre)[


.


.
 

---

Posted by Tukuler (Member # 19944) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:



Looking at this it becomes even more remarkable that someone would think these people look more African than Near Eastern.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:
Lying distorting snake.

I explicitly remarked on Asiatic blacks not African blacks.

---

"Asiatic black" is a meaningless race term

It's pure rhetoric

as if "black" means "a person with curly hair"
 

---

Posted by Tukuler (Member # 19944) on :
 
What I never did before was scrutinize
the first panel detailing the Assyrian
armed forces which include mercenaries.

The men wearing head gear that accompany
captive Lachish women and children may
be an Assyrian detachment. Their headgear
are near exactly same as Assyrian archers on

a slab showing the city's conquest. Up until
now I have always wondered why defeated
men would be allowed to wear military head
gear. Are these men a mercenary munition unit?


The children near the lead porter may've
just watched their fathers' execution and
whose quite dead bodies are about to be
desecrated. (2nd register of photo below)

To see the scene I'm about to describe
in its context reference this sketch.

An other and primary deportee family
starts behind the Elders of Lachish.
Two courtier looking Assyrians face
two nappy haired deportees leading
three women and a child, followed by
a nappy haired man driving an ox cart.

Two women, a youth, and a child in lap
being comforted with a kiss, sit atop
the goods in the cart. Could these be
a couple of the city's leading families?


Not to lose sight of the fact the short
nappy haired men clad only in jalabiya,
submissive in pose, opposite enthroned
Sennacherib, are the Elders (political
leaders) of Lachish. They are Judahites
since Lachish is one of the Kingdom of
Judah's major cities.




Some earlier discussion on the beards
the gist of which is there are no art
works of groups of regularly bearded
Egyptians or Sudanese. Maybe there are.
If so please post (but not a solo like
a worker in mourning or the like).
 

---

Posted by Tukuler (Member # 19944) on :
 
Tell it too all the Greco-Latin writers who
left us documentation on Asia's blacks from
the eastern Meditterannean to the Indian Ocean.

Why aren't you nit picking the so-called
Yehu on the Black Obelisk and questioning
his hair and ethnic relations.

You are only critical when the ancient art
represents a black. You are a melanophobe.

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:
Lying distorting snake.

I explicitly remarked on Asiatic blacks not African blacks.

---

"Asiatic black" is a meaningless race term

It's pure rhetoric

as if "black" means "a person with curly hair"

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:
Tell it too all the Greco-Latin writers who
left us documentation on Asia's blacks from
the eastern Meditterannean to the Indian Ocean.

---

The term "Asia's blacks" is meaningless

it's pure political socially contructed rhetoric, not anthropolgy

this is 2014 not 1814
 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 






-go ahead make up something
 

---

Posted by Tukuler (Member # 19944) on :
 
See how the liar fumes over the fact that "Asia"
has blacks of its own that are not African immigrees.
Especially when one set of "Asia's" blacks are the
Jews of the 2nd largest city of the Kingdom of Judah
circa 700 BCE.


All those paintings of Eurowhite Jews with long
flowing beards and all that non-sense are pure
imagination as Sennacherib's reliefs make plain
and evident with nothing but emotion to go
against what they reveal.


Watching his antics is more fun than a barrel of monkeys.
The melanophobe who is afraid of nappy haired Judahites
but says nothing about the authenticity of strait haired
"Yehu."

Your anti-black agenda is well known and at work here.
 

---

Posted by Tukuler (Member # 19944) on :
 
More Lachish Jewish women with their woolly haired husbands.



zoom
Note some men's garments resemble -alamu (sp).

An actual phot of the below will be appreciated

 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:
[QB] What I never did before was scrutinize
the first panel detailing the Assyrian
armed forces which include mercenaries.

The men wearing head gear that accompany
captive Lachish women and children may
be an Assyrian detachment. Their headgear
are near exactly same as Assyrian archers on

---

On closer inspection they are not near exactly the same


 

---

Posted by Tukuler (Member # 19944) on :
 
You wish

You think I'm trying to convince you?

Hah!

This is all for intelligent non-biased lurkers and surfers.

So continue your inane prattle and nattering.
 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Tukuler:
[QB] More Lachish Jewish women with their woolly haired husbands.



zoom
Note some men's garments resemble -alamu (sp).


On closer inspection,




.

 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 
Enough diversion,

Recap of disliked Topic post

--the funny thing as how both the Shalmaneser III
reliefs below and the Lachisch reliefs are unpainted

Yet people insist on applying skin color terms to them !!!!

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Obelisk_of_Shalmaneser_III


Black Obelisk of Shalmaneser III

It is the most complete Assyrian obelisk yet discovered, and is historically significant because it is thought to display the earliest ancient depiction of a biblical figure - Hoshea King of Israel. The traditional identification of "Yaw" as Jehu has been questioned by some scholars, who proposed that the inscription refers to another king, Jehoram of Israel. Its reference to 'Parsua' is also the first known reference to the Persians.

________________________________________________________


Black Obelisk of Shalmaneser III"






Depiction of Hoshea King of Israel giving tribute to King Shalmaneser III of Assyria (2 Kings 17:3), on the Black Obelisk of Shalmaneser III from Nimrud (circa 827 BC) in the British Museum (London).


https://www.britishmuseum.org/explore/highlights/highlight_objects/me/t/black_obelisk_of_shalmaneser.aspx

The Black Obelisk of Shalmaneser III

Neo-Assyrian, 858-824 BC
From Nimrud (ancient Kalhu), northern Iraq

The military achievements of an Assyrian king

The archaeologist Henry Layard discovered this black limestone obelisk in 1846 during his excavations of the site of Kalhu, the ancient Assyrian capital. It was erected as a public monument in 825 BC at a time of civil war. The relief sculptures glorify the achievements of King Shalmaneser III (reigned 858-824 BC) and his chief minister. It lists their military campaigns of thirty-one years and the tribute they exacted from their neighbours: including camels, monkeys, an elephant and a rhinoceros. Assyrian kings often collected exotic animals and plants as an expression of their power.

There are five scenes of tribute, each of which occupies four panels round the face of the obelisk and is identified by a line of cuneiform script above the panel. From top to bottom they are:

Sua of Gilzanu (in north-west Iran)
Jehu of Bit Omri (ancient northern Israel)
An unnamed ruler of Musri (probably Egypt)
Marduk-apil-usur of Suhi (middle Euphrates, Syria and Iraq)
Qalparunda of Patin (Antakya region of Turkey)

The second register from the top includes the earliest surviving picture of an Israelite: the Biblical Jehu, king of Israel, brought or sent his tribute in around 841 BC. Ahab, son of Omri, king of Israel, had lost his life in battle a few years previously, fighting against the king of Damascus at Ramoth-Gilead (I Kings xxii. 29-36). His second son (Joram) was succeeded by Jehu, a usurper, who broke the alliances with Phoenicia and Judah, and submitted to Assyria. The caption above the scene, written in Assyrian cuneiform, can be translated

The tribute of Jehu, son of Omri: I received from him silver, gold, a golden bowl, a golden vase with pointed bottom, golden tumblers, golden buckets, tin, a staff for a king [and] spears.

J.E. Reade, Assyrian sculpture-1 (London, The British Museum Press, 1998)

T.C. Mitchell, The Bible in the British Museu (London, The British Museum Press, 1988)

D. Luckenbill, Ancient records of Assyria and (, 1927 (reprinted 1989))

________________________________

---

 

---

Posted by Tukuler (Member # 19944) on :
 
Running scared?

More more more Lachish

To the fullest!!

Lachish: oldest authentic primary documentation of Israelites (Judah is a subset of Israel)

zoom
 

---

Posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:

That's a funny claim since you yourself claimed that Africans never moved out of Africa (during recent time),

---

that's a lie,

quote me saying that

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:


you've just said that black is variate. And is found all over the globe. Meaning black is not solely within Africa diverse, but even more so outside of Africa.

---

that's a lie,

quote me saying that

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:
Well we see here some of Asia's blacks also have nappy hair.

---

The Assyrians were African types?

---

Question..., did blacks ever make it to Assyria?

---

I said African types

"black" is a social construct term
It is therefore what it means is open to widely varied interpretation and is not, in recent thinking, considered a scientific term ("nappy" isn't either)

"African type" refers to a specific geographic location, Africa

Also, whether an African type person made it to some location 40-50,000 years ago is irrelevant to specific populations in Assyria or Lachish 2,700 years ago

Within that span of time people evolve adpatations to new climates, drift and isolation and admixture may also be at play

---

http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=008956;p=2#000052


Dedicated to the lioness productions team.

quote:

---

8 Cush had a son named Nimrod, who became the world's first great conqueror. 9 By the Lord's help he was a great hunter, and that is why people say, “May the Lord make you as great a hunter as Nimrod!” 10 At first his kingdom included Babylon, Erech, and Accad, all three of them in Babylonia. 11 From that land he went to Assyria and built the cities of Nineveh, Rehoboth Ir, Calah,

12 and Resen, which is between Nineveh and the great city of Calah.

---

quote:

---

"A potential issue that could in theory influence our findings is that the exact population contributing to African ancestry in West Eurasians is unknown. To gain insight into the African source populations, we carried out PCA analyses, which suggested that the African ancestry in West Eurasians is at least as closely related to East Africans (e.g. Hapmap3 Luhya (LWK)) as to West Africans (e.g. Nigerian Yoruba (YRI)) (the same analyses show that there is no evidence of relatedness to Chadic populations like Bulala) (Text S5 and Figure S12).

We also used the 4 Population Test to assess whether the tree ((LWK, YRI),(West Eurasian, CEU)) is consistent with the data, and found no evidence for a violation,

which is consistent with a mixture of either West African or East African ancestors or both contributing to the African ancestry in West Eurasians (Table S14; Figure S13). Historically, a mixture of West and East African ancestry is plausible, since African gene flow into West Eurasia is documented from both West Africa during Roman times [34] and from East Africa during migrations from Egypt [7]. It is important to point out, however, that the difficulty of pinpointing the exact African source population is not expected to bias our inferences about the total proportion and date of mixture. The f4 Ancestry Estimation method is unbiased even when we use a poor surrogates for the true ancestral African population (as long as the phylogeny is correct), as we confirmed by repeating analyses replacing YRI with LWK, and obtaining similar results (Table S15).Our ROLLOFF admixture date estimates are also similar whether we use LWK or YRI to represent ancestral African population (Table S15), as predicted by the theory.

---

quote:

---

"These results indicate that the ancestor of all Semitic languages in our dataset was being spoken in the Near East no earlier than approximately 7400 YBP, after having after having diverged from Afroasiatic in Africa"

(i) Semitic had an Early Bronze Age origin (approx. 5750 YBP) in the Levant, followed by an expansion of Akkadian into Mesopotamia;

(ii) Central and South Semitic diverged earlier than previously thought throughout the Levant during the Early to Middle Bronze Age transition; and

(iii) Ethiosemitic arose as the result of a single, possibly pre-Aksumite, introduction of a lineage from southern Arabia to the Horn of Africa approximately 2800 YBP.

---

-- (Ehret 1995; Ehret et al. 2004; Blench 2006).





 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 
.


Trollkillah, will you tell this Tukular character to stop continuing to switch the thread topic

There is no need for this

This is obviously a straight haired black >>>


 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:

quote:

---

(iii) Ethiosemitic arose as the result of a single, possibly pre-Aksumite, introduction of a lineage from southern Arabia to the Horn of Africa approximately 2800 YBP.

---

-- (Ehret 1995; Ehret et al. 2004; Blench 2006).

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
.


Trollkillah, will you tell this Tukular character to stop continuing to switch the thread topic

There is no need for this

This is obviously a straight haired black >>>

---

What I will tell you is this:


Helmet in the form of a Kedaris (the headdress popular among the nomadic peoples of Anatolia), with elaborately chased patterning imitating the quilted fabric, and rosettes on the sides and peak.


http://www.mfa.org/collections/object/helmet-155932



 

---

Posted by Tukuler (Member # 19944) on :
 
Like you don't infiltrate threads with totally
off topic posts. My posts here are very on topic.
 

---

Posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:

quote:

---

(iii) Ethiosemitic arose as the result of a single, possibly pre-Aksumite, introduction of a lineage from southern Arabia to the Horn of Africa approximately 2800 YBP.

---

-- (Ehret 1995; Ehret et al. 2004; Blench 2006).

---

interesting, this was probably accompanied by gene flow in both directions,

---

You couldn't manage to stay on topic. Anyway...






You've f*ckedup again.

quote:

---

Bedouins, Jordanians, Palestinians and Saudi Arabians are located in close proximity to each other, which is consistent with a common origin in the Arabian Peninsula25, whereas the Egyptian, Moroccan, Mozabite Berber, and Yemenite samples are located closer to sub- Saharan populations (Fig. 1a and Supplementary Fig. 2a).

[...]

---

--Bayazit Yunusbayev, Oleg Balanovsky et al.

The genome-wide structure of the Jewish people

Vol 466|8 July 2010|doi:10.1038/nature09103

Received 9 December 2009; accepted 21 April 2010. Published online 9 June 2010.

quote:

---

It is argued that just as there is a common Afroasiatic language family, so too there is a common Afroasiatic family of religions. There is an inner logic to be found in myths, folk-tales, rituals, customs and beliefs as far apart as Yemen and Nigeria which go back to an ancient past shared by the Bible and the pharaohs.

Using the method of comparative mythology, the author sifts through the work of scholars - including anthropologists, religious historians, archaeologists and classical Greek writers and contemporary comments on them by professional Egyptologists - to build his picture of the Afroasiatic heritage, and how much of it is still with us in modern Western thought.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:
Like you don't infiltrate threads with totally
off topic posts. My posts here are very on topic.

---

If the topic was Black Obelisk of Shalmaneser III

then, not all but most of your posts were off topic

anyway It's called the Black Obelisk

therefore it's pro black,

no need to worry about the straight hair.
Trollkillah has taught me that such hair is indigenous to Africa

 

---

Posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:
Like you don't infiltrate threads with totally
off topic posts. My posts here are very on topic.

---

If the topic was Black Obelisk of Shalmaneser III

then, not all but most of your posts were off topic

anyway It's called the Black Obelisk

therefore it's pro black,

no need to worry about the straight hair.
Trollkillah has taught me that such hair is indigenous to Africa

---

quote:

---

Physical variations in any given trait tend to occur gradually rather than abruptly over geographic areas. And because physical traits are inherited independently of one another, knowing the range of one trait does not predict the presence of others. For example, skin color varies largely from light in the temperate areas in the north to dark in the tropical areas in the south; its intensity is not related to nose shape or hair texture. Dark skin may be associated with frizzy or kinky hair or curly or wavy or straight hair, all of which are found among different indigenous peoples in tropical regions. These facts render any attempt to establish lines of division among biological populations both arbitrary and subjective.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:


Looking at this it becomes even more remarkable that someone would think these people look more African than Near Eastern.
And they may not even be native Judeans


^^^^ these are other figures, Lachish familes being deported by the Assyrians, but you don't see them on Egyptsearch. There's a reason for that. Many African Americans prefer to be Hebrew rather than West African. It's one of our ongoing shame based recongigurations, example, people descendants of places like Ghana or Benin calling themsleves "The Asiatic Black Man"

What one notices is that these deported familes don't have the dotted hair and are dressed differently from the dotted hair types. They appear to be a different ethnicity

So are all the above people even Judeans ?
One might say it could be either type or both, yet one group is shown with families and unless I've overlooked something the curly haired figures aren't.

Some scholars have suggested that they might be foreign fighters who were helping to protect the city

---

Lioness chant:


October 7, 1971

Dear Mrs. Golda Meir,

Have just listened to the news on the TV, and heard that you had refused to allow a group of negroes to land and stay there. I am delighted. You have enough trouble without allowing a lot of negroes to latch onto you. They said they were 'Jews' but they are not. All they want is to make trouble. A Negroe is not a Jew. I am against negroes and Jews mating.

The one thing that Jews have, more than others, is brains. You will have to rely on brains to protect you. Jews, as a group, have no friends. They have to depend on each other. Don't let anyone push you around, and tell you what to do. You know what to do for yourselves, better than anyone else does.

Keep negroes away from the press and cameras. They want to stir up strife. They had a bad time for the past hundred years, but the Jews have suffered for thousands of years, and they don't go around looting, burning and murdering, and spreading venereal disease.

Let's face it, negroes are not civilized now. In time, they may be. Right now, they are so full of hate and venom, you can't expect anything from them but trouble, and a burden to Israel. Rich negroes won't go to settle in Israel. Only the poor trash. The Jews have been good to the Negroes, and all they got in return, was hate and abuse. Jews are fighting for their lives in Israel. They can't afford to take in any more new enemies.

My prayers are with you.

A friend
Augusta Hermon











October 7, 1971

Dear President of Israel,

In tonight's television we saw that Israel was expelling Black people women and children. Israel did the right thing. I've been driving a Tonical here in San Francisco over thirty-five years now and I've seen what the black people will do to destroy and destroy.

...

Now in San Francisco thirty years ago. There was only about fifteen thousand Blacks in a population of whites 800,000. In these years I have witnessed how they bring drugs to white women a long long time ago. These people destroy cities and people. Our population is down to 700,000 people and 300,000 are black. There is never an hour, night or day that black people don't commit purse snatching, rape, robbery. I know because I've been robbed and when I saw thousands of photos of blacks, for only one year, my eyes were open also.

...

Oh yes I guess you now have read about school desegregation. White people all over the United States are upset over this. After bussing babies, and small children, out of their neighbors school, the black organization is now trying to prevent better education to bright school children. Israel should make a law, that when a black man commits any crime, he or she could be expelled to another country.

Don't wait or Israel will be sorry. My wife is Past President of Bnai Brith and now is Past President of Past Presidents of Bnai Brith. Although we will never be able to visit Israel, because I never can make enough for us to travel to Israel, our hearts and minds are for her greatness in ??? affair and at home. God bless Israel. I know that never a Jew will be called a man without a country.

Yours sincerely,
David B. Dulberg
1967 32nd Avenue
San Francisco, California
94116









October 9, 1971

Honorable Golda Meir:

I wish to write to you and voice my complete and overwhelming support of your police commander Col. Zvi Zeitlin, regarding a recent decision he made at Lod International Airport pertaining to Blacks seeking entry to your country.

I do not wish to assume the impertinence of telling you how to run your affairs of state, and hope you will forgive my zeal and pride of Israel in voicing my opinion.

As a Jew, I have always had to prove my worth the hard way - in school, in military service and in business in what is still basically an anti-Semitic society. I would like to think that somewhere in this world, in Israel, there is no anti-Semitism, and the adoption of American Blacks into Israel would destroy that dream also.

I have worked and been in business among Blacks for twenty years, and have yet to find any significant number of Blacks who are appreciative, and who are not anti-Semitic in spite of how kindly I may have acted toward them.

Please do not contaminate your beautiful country with unworthy, unappreciative dependent Blacks seeking to live off the fat of the land in a welfare state.

I have not had the opportunity to visit Israel as of this date, but am eagerly looking forward to visiting your country in the next couple of years. Nevertheless my pride of Israel compelled me to write this letter, and I hope you will accept it in the spirit it was written.

Respectfully yours,
Shalom,
Roy L. Levy
Chicago, Illinois



 

---

Posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:
Running scared?

More more more Lachish

To the fullest!!

Lachish: oldest authentic primary documentation of Israelites (Judah is a subset of Israel)

zoom

---

Nice, these are all the scenes attached.

quote:

---

Later, when Sennacherib king of Assyria and all his forces were laying siege to Lachish, he sent his officers to Jerusalem with this message for Hezekiah king of Judah and for all the people of Judah who were there:

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:
[QB] What I never did before was scrutinize
the first panel detailing the Assyrian
armed forces which include mercenaries.

The men wearing head gear that accompany
captive Lachish women and children may
be an Assyrian detachment. Their headgear
are near exactly same as Assyrian archers on

---

On closer inspection they are not near exactly the same

---

Tukuler said nearly the same.


Military ranks could play part here.


http://www.annourbis.com/ancient-civilizations/Assyria/images/plate098.jpg
 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 






PHRYGIA, district in central Asia Minor, part of the Roman province of Asia after the death of Attalus III (133 B.C.E.), the last king of *Pergamum. A Jewish community was established in Phrygia no later than the end of the third century B.C.E. According to Josephus, Antiochus III (the Great) transported 2,000 Jewish families from Mesopotamia and Babylonia to "the fortresses and most important places" of Phrygia and Lydia. These Jews were to serve as military settlers in support of the Seleucid monarchy, as the inhabitants of Phrygia had risen in revolt (cf. II Macc. 8:20: Babylonian Jews in the service of the Seleucid army against the Galatians). Favorable terms were granted the Jewish settlers. They were permitted to live in accordance with their own laws, and each was allotted land on which to build and cultivate. Generous exemptions from taxes were also granted, and Josephus thus considers the episode ample testimony to the friendship of Antiochus toward the Jews. The Jews of Phrygia undoubtedly had strong ties with Jerusalem and the Temple. On two occasions large sums of money which had been gathered in two cities of Phrygia, Apamea, and Laodicea, to be sent to the Temple were confiscated in 62–61 B.C.E. by the Roman governor Flaccus on the charge of illegal export of gold (Cicero, Pro Flacco, 28:68). A number of Jews from Phrygia resided in Jerusalem during the first century C.E. (Acts 2: 10). Several important Jewish inscriptions in Greek have been discovered in Phrygia, mostly from graves. One, dated 248–49 C.E. warns that if anyone should desecrate the tomb, "may the curses written in Deuteronomy [cf. ch. 27–29] be upon him." Nearly all the personal names are Greek, but the epithet "Joudaeos" is used several times and a menorah is carved on one stone. A tomb from Hierapolis, of the second or third century, states that the fee for any future additional internment is a donation to the Jewish community in Jerusalem.

BIBLIOGRAPHY:

Schuerer, Gesch, 3 (19094), 6, 12, 17; V. Tcherikover, Hellenistic Civilization and the Jews (1959), 287f., 501; Schalit, in: JQR, 50 (1959/60), 289–318; Frey, Corpus, 2 (1952), 24–38.


Mithra in a Phrygian cap 2nd cent. ad/c Rome, Italy
(British Museum, London)

Marble bust of Attis wearing Phrygian cap 2nd cent. ad/ce
(Paris)


_____________________________________________



Stones Crying Out and Rock-Witness to the Naratives of the Bible Concerning ...
By Ellen Ranyard
 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 
Trollkillah why have you posted racist letters to Golda Meir in this thread?

Why have you attached my name to them ? " Lioness chant:"

that's pure trolling and a very weak minded attempt to instigate an emotional reaction and derail the thread
 

---

Posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:






PHRYGIA, district in central Asia Minor, part of the Roman province of Asia after the death of Attalus III (133 B.C.E.), the last king of *Pergamum. A Jewish community was established in Phrygia no later than the end of the third century B.C.E. According to Josephus, Antiochus III (the Great) transported 2,000 Jewish families from Mesopotamia and Babylonia to "the fortresses and most important places" of Phrygia and Lydia. These Jews were to serve as military settlers in support of the Seleucid monarchy, as the inhabitants of Phrygia had risen in revolt (cf. II Macc. 8:20: Babylonian Jews in the service of the Seleucid army against the Galatians). Favorable terms were granted the Jewish settlers. They were permitted to live in accordance with their own laws, and each was allotted land on which to build and cultivate. Generous exemptions from taxes were also granted, and Josephus thus considers the episode ample testimony to the friendship of Antiochus toward the Jews. The Jews of Phrygia undoubtedly had strong ties with Jerusalem and the Temple. On two occasions large sums of money which had been gathered in two cities of Phrygia, Apamea, and Laodicea, to be sent to the Temple were confiscated in 62–61 B.C.E. by the Roman governor Flaccus on the charge of illegal export of gold (Cicero, Pro Flacco, 28:68). A number of Jews from Phrygia resided in Jerusalem during the first century C.E. (Acts 2: 10). Several important Jewish inscriptions in Greek have been discovered in Phrygia, mostly from graves. One, dated 248–49 C.E. warns that if anyone should desecrate the tomb, "may the curses written in Deuteronomy [cf. ch. 27–29] be upon him." Nearly all the personal names are Greek, but the epithet "Joudaeos" is used several times and a menorah is carved on one stone. A tomb from Hierapolis, of the second or third century, states that the fee for any future additional internment is a donation to the Jewish community in Jerusalem.

BIBLIOGRAPHY:

Schuerer, Gesch, 3 (19094), 6, 12, 17; V. Tcherikover, Hellenistic Civilization and the Jews (1959), 287f., 501; Schalit, in: JQR, 50 (1959/60), 289–318; Frey, Corpus, 2 (1952), 24–38.


Mithra in a Phrygian cap 2nd cent. ad/c Rome, Italy
(British Museum, London)

Marble bust of Attis wearing Phrygian cap 2nd cent. ad/ce
(Paris)


_____________________________________________



Stones Crying Out and Rock-Witness to the Naratives of the Bible Concerning ...
By Ellen Ranyard

---

quote:

---

"Maybe jehu himself".

[...]

"Phrygian cap, often worn in north Syria and Asia Minor"

---

-- Antony Kamm (page 89)

The Israelites: An Introduction






Ps,


 

---

Posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
Trollkillah why have you posted racist letters to Golda Meir in this thread?

Why have you attached my name to them ? " Lioness chant:"

that's pure trolling and a very weak minded attempt to instigate an emotional reaction and derail the thread

---

It's pure reality. And deals very much with the subject being discussed here.


October 16, 1971

My Dear Mrs. Meir,

I was reading about the blacks that were turned away from Israel. Thank God for that.

Do your people realize what would or could happen to precious Israel if the terrible negroes would settle there? They breed like flies and stir up the most horrible crimes and I'm sure you're aware of how animalistic they are. So please try and work hard to keep them out.

My dream and desire is to be able to visit Israel very soon. God bless you.

Mrs. Melnick
of Philadelphia






January 24, 1972

Get rid of the Black Israelites now!

Don't let them pollute Israel. They are bad for Israel.

If you keep them in Israel they will:
1) Be a 5th column
2) Demand welfare payments
3) Cause high crime, prostitution, juvenile delinquency and racial problems in Israel.

Keep all blacks from entering the country as immigrants. They will weaken Israel.






Dear Mrs. Meir:

Please expel the Black Hebrews of Dimona from Israel. It is the sensible thing to do.

These blacks are now a fifth column in Israel; they are a greet internal threat. They hated the Jews when they lived in the US and they hate the Jews even more now. As you know the Blacks hope to take over Israel by bringing more of their number into the country and by their high birth-rate.

Please, if you want Jews to continue to come to Israel and if you want Jews to settle and stay in Dimona - then get rid of the Black Israelites in Israel - expel all of them from the country now while they are a few hundred in number. In a few years they may be several thousand in number.

The Blacks have created slums in a great many American cities. American Jews in Israel can attest to this. That is why American Jews are coming to Israel. Please learn from America's mistakes. Keep the blacks out of Israel; send them back to America. We Jews don't want Israeli cities to turn into slums nor do we want to see Israeli women raped, robbed and beaten. Blacks in America are used to living on welfare. That is why the Blacks in Israel refuse to work; they want to live on welfare in Israel. What nerve.

Please, send the Blacks back to America or to another country. Anywhere but Israel. Let the Jews of Dimona live in peace.

Sincerely,
A friend of Israel






 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 


^^^ see this? It's from a credible book, and the caption appears in the book as shown below it "Judaea family deported"

however I now believe that Tukular is probably right about this and the man is Assyrian, the book is in error as are other books.

I now think this because of the below Assyrian

In particular that in the crotch area a piece of cloth hangs down, it's part of the garment,
That piece is very similar in both figures, I would have to say on that basis they are both Assyrian and the the dotted head figures below are therefore Judaea Judean not merely residents of Judea or a foreign garrison on behalf of the Judeans





Now moving on, revisiting the question of whether or not the Lachish figures above have afro hair or curly hair

As I said before we have to look at the Assyrian



Notice his features are very similar to the Judeans to his right

^^^Now look at his hair

The upper portion is straight. However the lower portion is dotted in exactly the same manner as the Judeans

So is the curly hair or more finely textured afro hair ?
That portion looks exactly like the Judea's.

While I could see them being able to artificially curl their hair as per "curly hair" It doesn't seem likely that they could make one portion of their hair look like the more finely textured much more numerous, very small tight curls of afro hair aka "nappy"

For instance look at this Persian:


^^^ look at the scale of the curl, it's too large to be afro hair

His hair was probably naturally curly particularly at the ends
So as we can see if these artists are being accurate it is the scale of curly hair rather than afro-kinky hair

How accurate to life the depiction in the Lachish reliefs is uncertain



^^^However If you render a sculpture with afro hair as in this Muhammad Ali bust accurately it looks like this,
not those large dots of the Lacish figures/Assyrian and it's very obvious to those familiar with art
 

---

Posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 
For the dumb ass above, the Assyrian art was from thousands of years ago, Muhammad Ali is from when? Time and culture are mandated for cultural expressions. Back then that was how they portrayed Afro texture hair


All you are good for is ignoring and denying black peoples history.

Plus not all Afro hair has the same texture.














http://catalog.scpauctions.com/ItemImages/000026/0411BFallPremier_lg.jpeg


http://cdn.twentytwowords.com/wp-content/uploads/Scott-Fife-Muhammed-Ali.jpeg?76d27a

quote:

---

This vase combines the distinctive neck of the so-called Shape VII oinochoe with a naturalistic head of a young black African boy. His curls and the central rosette were made separately. Vases in figural form were popular items in several Mediterranean cultures. The Etruscans produced both terracotta and metal versions.

---

http://images.metmuseum.org/CRDImages/gr/web-large/DP119653.jpg


Funny how you elaborate so detailed on European hair, while you don't know anything about African hair textures.



You've f*ckedup again.
 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:
] For the dumb ass above, the Assyrian art was from thousands of years ago, Muhammad Ali is from when? Time and culture are mandated for cultural expressions. Back then that was how they portrayed Afro texture hair


All you are good for is ignoring and denying black peoples history.

Plus not all Afro hair has the same texture.

---

^^^^ this shows you don't know what you are talking about

You say not all Afro hair has the same texture and then below it you have a chart showing curly hair, that's dumb

Multi millions of people of many different ethnities and complexions have curly hair




you theory is all curly haired people are Africans, it's dumb


 

---

Posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:
] For the dumb ass above, the Assyrian art was from thousands of years ago, Muhammad Ali is from when? Time and culture are mandated for cultural expressions. Back then that was how they portrayed Afro texture hair


All you are good for is ignoring and denying black peoples history.

Plus not all Afro hair has the same texture.

---

^^^^ this shows you don't know what you are talking about

You say not all Afro hair has the same texture and then below it you have a chart showing curly hair, that's dumb
Multi millions of people of many different ethnities and complexions have curly hair




you theory is all curly haired people are Africans, it's dumb

---

Dimwit the beard doesn't match, dimwit your theory straight hair is caucasoid, it's dumb. Dimwit posting pictures of random folks to prove a point, is dumb. Dimwit, the lengths you go on a daily basis to erase black peoples history is hilarious. Next time, tell us again about your "race theories" and straight hair. LOL

quote:

---

This vase combines the distinctive neck of the so-called Shape VII oinochoe with a naturalistic head of a young black African boy. His curls and the central rosette were made separately. Vases in figural form were popular items in several Mediterranean cultures. The Etruscans produced both terracotta and metal versions.

---

quote:

---

8 Cush had a son named Nimrod, who became the world's first great conqueror. 9 By the Lord's help he was a great hunter, and that is why people say, “May the Lord make you as great a hunter as Nimrod!” 10 At first his kingdom included Babylon, Erech, and Accad, all three of them in Babylonia. 11 From that land he went to Assyria and built the cities of Nineveh, Rehoboth Ir, Calah,

12 and Resen, which is between Nineveh and the great city of Calah.

---

quote:

---

"A potential issue that could in theory influence our findings is that the exact population contributing to African ancestry in West Eurasians is unknown. To gain insight into the African source populations, we carried out PCA analyses, which suggested that the African ancestry in West Eurasians is at least as closely related to East Africans (e.g. Hapmap3 Luhya (LWK)) as to West Africans (e.g. Nigerian Yoruba (YRI)) (the same analyses show that there is no evidence of relatedness to Chadic populations like Bulala) (Text S5 and Figure S12).

We also used the 4 Population Test to assess whether the tree ((LWK, YRI),(West Eurasian, CEU)) is consistent with the data, and found no evidence for a violation,

which is consistent with a mixture of either West African or East African ancestors or both contributing to the African ancestry in West Eurasians (Table S14; Figure S13). Historically, a mixture of West and East African ancestry is plausible, since African gene flow into West Eurasia is documented from both West Africa during Roman times [34] and from East Africa during migrations from Egypt [7]. It is important to point out, however, that the difficulty of pinpointing the exact African source population is not expected to bias our inferences about the total proportion and date of mixture. The f4 Ancestry Estimation method is unbiased even when we use a poor surrogates for the true ancestral African population (as long as the phylogeny is correct), as we confirmed by repeating analyses replacing YRI with LWK, and obtaining similar results (Table S15).Our ROLLOFF admixture date estimates are also similar whether we use LWK or YRI to represent ancestral African population (Table S15), as predicted by the theory.

---

quote:

---

"These results indicate that the ancestor of all Semitic languages in our dataset was being spoken in the Near East no earlier than approximately 7400 YBP, after having after having diverged from Afroasiatic in Africa"

(i) Semitic had an Early Bronze Age origin (approx. 5750 YBP) in the Levant, followed by an expansion of Akkadian into Mesopotamia;

(ii) Central and South Semitic diverged earlier than previously thought throughout the Levant during the Early to Middle Bronze Age transition; and

(iii) Ethiosemitic arose as the result of a single, possibly pre-Aksumite, introduction of a lineage from southern Arabia to the Horn of Africa approximately 2800 YBP.

---

-- (Ehret 1995; Ehret et al. 2004; Blench 2006).





 

---

Posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Tukuler:
[QB] More Lachish Jewish women with their woolly haired husbands.



zoom
Note some men's garments resemble -alamu (sp).


On closer inspection,




.

---

It's ironic because the woolly haired husbands their hands are tied together. Those other male's hands are not.



 

---

Posted by sero (Member # 19290) on :
 
In most cultures prisoners and slaves got their hair cropped as a form of humiliation upon their broken manhood/power. The Bible symbolically and literally talks about this form of humiliation performed by the Assyrians.


Isaiah 7:20 
In that day the Lord will use a razor hired from beyond the Euphrates River the king of Assyria to shave your heads and private parts, and to cut off your beards also.


 

---

Posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by sero:
In most cultures prisoners and slaves got their hair cropped as a form of humiliation upon their broken manhood/power. The Bible symbolically and literally talks about this form of humiliation performed by the Assyrians.


Isaiah 7:20 
In that day the Lord will use a razor hired from beyond the Euphrates River the king of Assyria to shave your heads and private parts, and to cut off your beards also.

---

quote:

---

Ivory plaque of lioness mauling an African: the lioness is standing over her victim who has his knees drawn up and is lying back supported by his hands on the ground behind him. The lioness is biting his throat. The African wears a short kilt represented by gold leaf. The tight curls of hair are represented by gilt-topped ivory pegs. In the background are lotus and papyrus flowers, covered in gold leaf and inlaid with lapis lazuli and cornelian. There is also a spot of lapis lazuli inlay on the forehead of the lioness. On top of the plaque are two square mortice holes and an incised letter 'aleph' in West Semitic script, while on the base are two rectangular holes and another incised 'aleph'. This plaque was probably part of a piece of furniture.

---

http://www.britishmuseum.org/research/collection_online/collection_object_details.aspx?objectId=369008&partId=1



 

---

Posted by Tukuler (Member # 19944) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:
Nice, these are all the scenes attached.

---

Thanks but there are 13 individual slabs from
Sennacherib. What I found and never knew saw
before this thread is the first tow slabs
representing deportees by the score
posted last page and updated now.

Lachish Jewish women with their woolly haired husbands.



zoom




BTW I do have an image of all the slabs depicting
the booty of Lachish passing before Sennacherib but
it's way too wide to post here and I won't ruin the
readability of the thread by stretching it so wide
you have to scroll side to side each and every line
just to read a post as was done to my Beta Israel
thread.

What I may do is post it in a thread of its own
 

---

Posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 
^ thanks, Tukuler

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:
] For the dumb ass above, the Assyrian art was from thousands of years ago, Muhammad Ali is from when? Time and culture are mandated for cultural expressions. Back then that was how they portrayed Afro texture hair


All you are good for is ignoring and denying black peoples history.

Plus not all Afro hair has the same texture.

---

^^^^ this shows you don't know what you are talking about

You say not all Afro hair has the same texture and then below it you have a chart showing curly hair, that's dumb
Multi millions of people of many different ethnities and complexions have curly hair




you theory is all curly haired people are Africans, it's dumb

---

Dimwit the beard doesn't match, dimwit your theory straight hair is caucasoid, it's dumb. Dimwit posting pictures of random folks to prove a point, is dumb. Dimwit, the lengths you go on a daily basis to erase black peoples history is hilarious. Next time, tell us again about your "race theories" and straight hair. LOL


And I did not make that scheme. Go figure!

quote:

---

This vase combines the distinctive neck of the so-called Shape VII oinochoe with a naturalistic head of a young black African boy. His curls and the central rosette were made separately. Vases in figural form were popular items in several Mediterranean cultures. The Etruscans produced both terracotta and metal versions.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:

---

quote:

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:.................

---

......
.

---

Dimwit the beard doesn't match, dimwit your theory straight hair is caucasoid, it's dumb. Dimwit posting pictures of random folks to prove a point, is dumb. Dimwit, the lengths you go on a daily basis to erase black peoples history is hilarious. Next time, tell us again about your "race theories" and straight hair. LOL


And I did not make that scheme. Go figure!


........

You've f*ckedup again!

---

LOL...hot fake Muurish curls...
 

---

Posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:

---

so according to you both these people have nappy hair, aka afros

and are therefore "black"

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:



I said African types

"black" is a social construct term
It is therefore what it means is open to widely varied interpretation and is not, in recent thinking, considered a scientific term ("nappy" isn't either)

"African type" refers to a specific geographic location, Africa

Also, whether an African type person made it to some location 40-50,000 years ago is irrelevant to specific populations in Assyria or Lachish 2,700 years ago

Within that span of time people evolve adpatations to new climates, drift and isolation and admixture may also be at play

---

quote:

---

quote:
This vase combines the distinctive neck of the so-called Shape VII oinochoe with a naturalistic head of a young black African boy. His curls and the central rosette were made separately. Vases in figural form were popular items in several Mediterranean cultures. The Etruscans produced both terracotta and metal versions.

---

quote:

---

8 Cush had a son named Nimrod, who became the world's first great conqueror. 9 By the Lord's help he was a great hunter, and that is why people say, “May the Lord make you as great a hunter as Nimrod!” 10 At first his kingdom included Babylon, Erech, and Accad, all three of them in Babylonia. 11 From that land he went to Assyria and built the cities of Nineveh, Rehoboth Ir, Calah,

12 and Resen, which is between Nineveh and the great city of Calah.

---

quote:

---

"A potential issue that could in theory influence our findings is that the exact population contributing to African ancestry in West Eurasians is unknown. To gain insight into the African source populations, we carried out PCA analyses, which suggested that the African ancestry in West Eurasians is at least as closely related to East Africans (e.g. Hapmap3 Luhya (LWK)) as to West Africans (e.g. Nigerian Yoruba (YRI)) (the same analyses show that there is no evidence of relatedness to Chadic populations like Bulala) (Text S5 and Figure S12).

We also used the 4 Population Test to assess whether the tree ((LWK, YRI),(West Eurasian, CEU)) is consistent with the data, and found no evidence for a violation,

which is consistent with a mixture of either West African or East African ancestors or both contributing to the African ancestry in West Eurasians (Table S14; Figure S13). Historically, a mixture of West and East African ancestry is plausible, since African gene flow into West Eurasia is documented from both West Africa during Roman times [34] and from East Africa during migrations from Egypt [7]. It is important to point out, however, that the difficulty of pinpointing the exact African source population is not expected to bias our inferences about the total proportion and date of mixture. The f4 Ancestry Estimation method is unbiased even when we use a poor surrogates for the true ancestral African population (as long as the phylogeny is correct), as we confirmed by repeating analyses replacing YRI with LWK, and obtaining similar results (Table S15).Our ROLLOFF admixture date estimates are also similar whether we use LWK or YRI to represent ancestral African population (Table S15), as predicted by the theory.

---

quote:

---

"These results indicate that the ancestor of all Semitic languages in our dataset was being spoken in the Near East no earlier than approximately 7400 YBP, after having after having diverged from Afroasiatic in Africa"

(i) Semitic had an Early Bronze Age origin (approx. 5750 YBP) in the Levant, followed by an expansion of Akkadian into Mesopotamia;

(ii) Central and South Semitic diverged earlier than previously thought throughout the Levant during the Early to Middle Bronze Age transition; and

(iii) Ethiosemitic arose as the result of a single, possibly pre-Aksumite, introduction of a lineage from southern Arabia to the Horn of Africa approximately 2800 YBP.

---

-- (Ehret 1995; Ehret et al. 2004; Blench 2006).







Lioness production team f*cked up big time.
 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:

---

so according to you both these people have nappy hair, aka afros

and are therefore "black"

---

this is not a rebuttal it's a simple question>
Do both sculptures above represent afro hair ?

If you don't know please say so, so we can move on
 

---

Posted by Tukuler (Member # 19944) on :
 
What is Afro hair? A 60's/70's style? What?

Africans mainly have
cymotrichous bordering ulotrichous
much ulotrichous (an extreme)
some cymotrichous
and even a little leiotrichous (an extreme)
types or textures of hair.

Egyptian's hair and hairstyles (link)




Winners gladly build up from what went before.
Losers start from Square One each generation
and do not as a group honor what their elders
have to pass down to them. This is due to their
programming and refusal to do for self (at least
in the realms of education) in the case of BAs.
 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:
What is Afro hair?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:
Afro is a hairstyle.

I have nappy hair
but I do not have
an Afro.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:

---

Trollkillah, do both the sculptures above represent people with nappy hair ?

If you don't know please say so, so we can move on


(other folks, please let Trollkillah answer first, thanks )
 

---

Posted by Tukuler (Member # 19944) on :
 
The top figure's hair is wavy at root with artificial curls at tip.

The bottom figure has hair that is entirely curly/wooly.
 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:
The top figure's hair is wavy at root with artificial curls at tip.

The bottom figure has hair that is entirely curly/wooly.

---

Is it nappy?





http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Persian_warriors_from_Berlin_Museum.jpg

^^^ He has that same uncurled portion on the back (and top of his head) as the Persian,
therefore the curled portions of his hair are artifical, correct?
 

---

Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
 
^Amazing how normally sensible people can be suckered into inane conversations by lioness.
 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mike111:
^Amazing how normally sensible people can be suckered into inane conversations by lioness.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:

---

so according to you both these people have nappy hair, aka afros

and are therefore "black"

---

this is not a rebuttal it's a simple question>
Do both sculptures above represent afro hair ?

If you don't know please say so, so we can move on

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,: "black" is a social construct term
It is therefore what it means is open to widely varied interpretation and is not, in recent thinking, considered a scientific term ("nappy" isn't either)

---

You've f*cked up big time.


http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=008956;p=4#000150
 

---

Posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:
The top figure's hair is wavy at root with artificial curls at tip.

The bottom figure has hair that is entirely curly/wooly.

---

Is it nappy?





http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Persian_warriors_from_Berlin_Museum.jpg

^^^ He has that same uncurled portion on the back (and top of his head) as the Persian,
therefore the curled portions of his hair are artifical, correct?

---

Blah blah...look at his beard. Plus the top of that strangers man's head can't even be seen.


http://www.metmuseum.org/collection/the-collection-online/search/246978


Main Entry: ulot·ri·chous

Pronunciation: \-rə̇kəs\
Function: adjective

Etymology: New Latin Ulotrichi (plural) division of humankind having crisp or woolly hair (from Greek oulotrich-, oulothrix having curly or woolly hair, from oulos curly, woolly + trich-, thrix hair) + English -ous; akin to Greek eilein to roll, eilyein to roll, wrap — more at trich-, voluble

: exhibiting ulotrichy : having woolly or crisp hair


http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ulotrichous






the lioness productions team f*cked up again.


http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=008956;p=4#000150
 

---

Posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mike111:
^Amazing how normally sensible people can be suckered into inane conversations by lioness.

---

Amazing how you are scared of what is being revealed here

---

Check this here:

http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=008956;p=4#000150




http://violetjovovich.blogspot.nl/2010/11/one-night-with-king-movie-review.html



 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:
The top figure's hair is wavy at root with artificial curls at tip.

---

.


,



(same picture as top, reversed)


______________________________________________________


.






^^^ Here's another one of the Elamite guard figures

Trollkilah, has his hair been artifically curled ?

Tukuler, has his hair been artifically curled ?

.
 

---

Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
 
It is normal for lioness to engage in silly nonsensical conversations, that's what lioness does.

But now I'm starting to wonder if all of you people are really Albinos from stormfront. The pictured ancient hairstyles are they same as is seen today when Blacks wear their hair long with a fillet. What is wrong with you people?

















 

---

Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
 



.

INDIAN BUDDHAS










.











----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Likewise, there is nothing new about the Indian/Asian hairstyle above:

IT IS CALLED THE BANTU KNOT.



 

---

Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
 
Lioness, I thought that by now you would have been able to photoshop a White girl with hair like this.
 

---

Posted by Tukuler (Member # 19944) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mike111:

... wonder if all of you people are really Albinos from stormfront.

. . .

The pictured ancient hairstyles are they same as is seen today when Blacks wear their hair long with a fillet. What is wrong with you people?

---

.

Thor's electifying thunderbolt ain't got nothin'
on Shango's thunder and lightening and his wife
Oya's devastating hurricane.

What's wrong with your eyes that you can't see
none of the African people with woolly hair
show any hint of waves or straightness
behind the fillets only before them?

Anyway, people don't have to have woolly hair to be black.
Re-examine the ancients' statements on the hair difference
in general between the western and eastern Aithiopians.
Identity of "Eastern Ethiopians" according to Herodotus thread
 

---

Posted by Tukuler (Member # 19944) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:



^^^ Here's another one of the Elamite guard figures


Tukuler, has his hair been artifically curled ?

---

.



The hair is woolly. Higher resolution reveals the
textile covering held in place by a headband atop
the Elamites' hair which, basing myself on other
images of Elamites, I take to be naturally woolly.


ASSUR RELIEF 10TH-6TH BCE -- Assyrian officer presents a new king to the vanquished Elamites at Madaktu
after the battle of Til Tuba. Stone bas-relief (7th BCE) from the palace of Ashurbanipal in Nineveh, Mesopotamia
(Iraq). British Museum, London, Great Britain


Also, unlike the Persian(?), the Elamite's hair
touching his forehead is woolly. That Persian's
hair at his forehead is wavy ending in artificial
curl. This artificial curling process may have
started in imitation of the elite Elamites of
Susa.


Gaston Maspero
History Of Egypt, Chaldæa, Syria, Babylonia, and Assyria, Volume 4 (of 12)
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/17324/17324-h/17324-h.htm#linkimage-0018
please follow the link


orientation

 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:
The top figure's hair is wavy at root with artificial curls at tip.

---

.


,




^^^ Here's another one of the Archers at Persepolis


Tukuler, has his hair been artifically curled ?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukular

The hair is woolly. Higher resolution reveals the
textile covering held in place by a headband atop
the Elamites' hair which, basing myself on other
images of Elamites, I take to be naturally woolly.


ASSUR RELIEF 10TH-6TH BCE -- Assyrian officer presents a new king to the vanquished Elamites at Madaktu
after the battle of Til Tuba. Stone bas-relief (7th BCE) from the palace of Ashurbanipal in Nineveh, Mesopotamia
(Iraq). British Museum, London, Great Britain


Also, unlike the Persian(?), the Elamite's hair
touching his forehead is woolly. That Persian's
hair at his forehead is wavy ending in artificial
curl. This artificial curling process may have
started in imitation of the elite Elamites of
Susa.


Gaston Maspero
History Of Egypt, Chaldæa, Syria, Babylonia, and Assyria, Volume 4 (of 12)
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/17324/17324-h/17324-h.htm#linkimage-0018
please follow the link [/QB]

---

Here is a close up of the above>



^^^ You describe these people as having wooley hair rather than curly.
To me it could be curly or wooley.
Curly hair is found in many ethnicities but wooley hair tends to be found primarily in a more limited range of populations, although there are exceptions.

The Elamites lived in what is now Iran.
The figure at right we get a less common view of an Elamite with this same hair but no beard. To me, with his bulbous chin, his features do not resemble necessarily in particular one of the world's populations that has wooley hair. Do you agree?

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukular
:
The hair is woolly. Higher resolution reveals the
textile covering held in place by a headband atop
the Elamites' hair which, basing myself on other
images of Elamites, I take to be naturally woolly.

---

I don't know what you mean by " the
textile covering held in place"
Look at that two figure close up, they have head bands only, their hair is showing above it at the top of their heads.

Maybe you mean this figure has textile covering the top of his head above the headband>>>



I think not but I suppose it's possible. Like with the other figures it appears to me he's just wearing a headband.

But never mind the top of his head, below the headband at the back of his head is a scoop shaped portion of hair that is not curled, it is the same color as the curled portion and does not look like cloth.

It looks just like this:



The painted relief above looks nearly like a painted version of this unpainted relief.
I don't see how anybody could say that the curls on the unpainted relief are artificially made but the painted relief figure has real curls.

In my opinion the ASSUR RELIEF 10TH-6TH BCE you posted are as listed Elamites, however the painted relief, the '"Frieze of the Archers of the Guard" at Persepolis, Susa are not Elamites they are Persians.


So, in my opinion. the painted and unpainted reliefs are both Persian archers.
Surprise, I also believe that hair of both figures hair is naturally curly (although not woolly.) The curls are big and loose rather than tightly curled and the wavy straight portions are either stretched out by the head gear , matted down or >the straight are the artificial parts.
I had been calling them Elamites but no longer.
Now I will just call them the "Frieze of the Archers". I am not absolutely sure but I now think they may be Persians rather than Elamites.
Note also the ASSUR RELIEF Elamites do not have that scoop portion at the back of their heads like these archers.
That doesn't necessarily make it wooley either. To me it could be woolly but it could also be just more tightly curled than the archers but not certainly woolly.
So if all the archers are Persians and the Frieze of the Archers are also Persian, were the Persians dark skinned?
-maybe, or maybe they had a range of skin tones
They don't strike me as African types, Why should they, it's Iran.
There are some blacks in Iran right now, however they they to be broad nosed and as far as I know trace their roots back to the Zanj or other Africans who came into to the region several hundred years or less. The medieval Islamic writer Al-Jahiz of Bashra may fhave been in part iof this ethnicity

However If we return to the Black Obelisk of Shalmaneser III figures, or the Lachish figures they are unpainted so color doesn't apply.
As per Persians Manilius Astronomica many hundreds of year later, he describes tanned Greeks and neighboring Syrians thus:

quote:

---

Quick witted Greece proclaims in the tanned faces of it's people the gymnasium and the manly wrestling schools. Curly hair about the temples betrays the Syrian.

---

quote:

---

They say : The blacks are
more numerous than the whites. The whites at most consist of the people of Persia, Jibal,
and Khurasan, the Greeks, Slavs, Franks, and Avars, and some few others

---

-woolly hair is a beautiful thing, dark skin is a beautiful thing.
People with woolly hair can treat their hair in various ways to make it have a curly shape, that is larger curls then it's natural form or in some cases dredlocked.
But once it is in this form and depicted on a sculpture, at this point you can't tell it apart from other etncities who also have culry hair that is not woolly.


Louvre remarks below

'"Frieze of the Archers of the Guard" at Persepolis Susa


http://www.louvre.fr/en/oeuvre-notices/frieze-archers

quote:

---

This decorative frieze of polychrome glazed brick shows an army, the men carrying spears, bows and quivers. Are they the royal guards of Darius I (522–486 BC), whom Herodotus called “the Immortals,” or might they represent an idealized image of the Persian people? The frieze is probably inspired by the brick friezes of Babylon, although the technique is different. That may be a legacy from the Middle Elamite Period, which saw the appearance of decoration in glazed siliceous brick.
Archers on parade
The Frieze of Archers had two symmetrical lines of soldiers, parading at a slow march. Each archer’s hands are joined together on the shaft of his spear, and hanging from his shoulders is a bow, its ends in the form of duck’s heads, and a quiver. The butt of the spear, held vertical, rests on the front foot, shod like the other in a laced ankle-boot. The archers wear the long Persian robe, braided and pleated over the legs, the outline of whose ample sleeve describes a curve towards the belted waist. They are bearded, and their thick curly hair is massed at the nape of the neck, held back by a diadem of beaten metal. Each brick is molded from a quart-based body; its outer face is rectangular, but the brick tapers towards the back, a little like a quoin, so as to leave room for mortar when the decorated faces are butted up against each other. The frieze combines low relief and color, with glazes of green, brown, white and yellow separated by fine cloisons of siliceous body.
An inheritance from the Elamite period?
This decorative frieze was certainly inspired by the Processional Way in Babylon, constructed by Nebuchadnezar II (604–562 BC), but the technique is different. The Babylonians used clay for their bricks, rather than the siliceous material employed here. The artists who worked for Darius may have revived a technique developed at Susa by the Elamites in the Late Elamite Period at the end of the second millennium. Polychrome brick decoration in Iran would have a great future in the architecture of the Islamic age.
The Immortals?
Although the British archaeologist W. K. Loftus, the first to excavate at Susa, had identified the main lines of the apadana, he had recognized only isolated motifs, palmettes and rosettes, from its glazed brick decoration. When Marcel Dieulafoy continued his predecessor’s work he discovered enough bricks to make possible the fairly convincing reconstruction displayed at the Louvre: two panels representing a procession of archers, framed by decorative motifs and surmounted by crenellations inspired by the facades of the rock-tombs of Persepolis and Naqsh-e Rustam. The rare inscribed bricks, on which one can still make out the name of Darius, were positioned in the middle. The archers were then assembled as separate panels. While the Lion Frieze was found on the ground at its original position in the East Court of the palace, the exact location of the Frieze of Archers is unknown, countless bricks and fragments having been found more or less all over the place when the apadana was excavated. Their number does suggest a hypothesis: the archers may have been positioned at regular intervals in several registers, over the height of the wall, as at Babylon. They would then have occupied a great part of the exterior walls of the palace, extending over hundreds of metres. How should such a colossal ensemble be understood? Were these men the ‘Immortals,’ the élite regiment of 10,000 men? Or might they rather represent an ideal image, repeated to infinity, of the ‘Persian people,’ a constituent element of the unified empire brought together under the rule of the king, to whom it might have been necessary to accord a special place in the old Elamite capital of Susa?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:
The top figure's hair is wavy at root with artificial curls at tip.

---

.


,



(same picture as top, reversed)


______________________________________________________


.






^^^ Here's another one of the Elamite guard figures

Trollkilah, has his hair been artifically curled ?

Tukuler, has his hair been artifically curled ?

.

---

I have explained to you many times over the many years, that not all "Afro-texture hair" is as "equally kinky". Some is more loose/ soft other more tight, and there is variety in this.

Sometimes the hair grows out thin and becomes thicker, and sometimes the hair grows out thick and becomes thinner. Then you also have the texture which grows out equally.


You have excellent understanding on ling slick European hair, I'll give you that. But when it comes to ulotrichous, you barely have any understanding.



In case of your repetitive examples. The hair type is more of a loose type of kinky hair.


More like 3C





The above describes a variety, although within this there is also intermediate texture.

















Lioness team got f*cked up again. And the above explains once again that you have never set foot in a "black hair salon".






http://luvtobnatural.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Headband-Puff.png
 

---

Posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mike111:

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:
The top figure's hair is wavy at root with artificial curls at tip.

---

.


,




^^^ Here's another one of the Archers at Persepolis


Tukuler, has his hair been artifically curled ?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukular

The hair is woolly. Higher resolution reveals the
textile covering held in place by a headband atop
the Elamites' hair which, basing myself on other
images of Elamites, I take to be naturally woolly.


ASSUR RELIEF 10TH-6TH BCE -- Assyrian officer presents a new king to the vanquished Elamites at Madaktu
after the battle of Til Tuba. Stone bas-relief (7th BCE) from the palace of Ashurbanipal in Nineveh, Mesopotamia
(Iraq). British Museum, London, Great Britain


Also, unlike the Persian(?), the Elamite's hair
touching his forehead is woolly. That Persian's
hair at his forehead is wavy ending in artificial
curl. This artificial curling process may have
started in imitation of the elite Elamites of
Susa.


Gaston Maspero
History Of Egypt, Chaldæa, Syria, Babylonia, and Assyria, Volume 4 (of 12)
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/17324/17324-h/17324-h.htm#linkimage-0018
please follow the link

---

Here is a close up of the above>



^^^ You describe these people as having wooley hair rather than curly.
To me it could be curly or wooley.
Curly hair is found in many ethnicities but wooley hair tends to be found primarily in a more limited range of populations, although there are exceptions.

The Elamites lived in what is now Iran.
The figure at right we get a less common view of an Elamite with this same hair but no beard. To me, with his bulbous chin, his features do not resemble necessarily in particular one of the world's populations that has wooley hair. Do you agree?

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukular
:
The hair is woolly. Higher resolution reveals the
textile covering held in place by a headband atop
the Elamites' hair which, basing myself on other
images of Elamites, I take to be naturally woolly.

---

I don't know what you mean by " the
textile covering held in place"
Look at that two figure close up, they have head bands only, their hair is showing above it at the top of their heads.

Maybe you mean this figure has textile covering the top of his head above the headband>>>



I think not but I suppose it's possible. Like with the other figures it appears to me he's just wearing a headband.

But never mind the top of his head, below the headband at the back of his head is a scoop shaped portion of hair that is not curled, it is the same color as the curled portion and does not look like cloth.

It looks just like this:



The painted relief above looks nearly like a painted version of this unpainted relief.
I don't see how anybody could say that the curls on the unpainted relief are artificially made but the painted relief figure has real curls.

In my opinion the ASSUR RELIEF 10TH-6TH BCE you posted are as listed Elamites, however the painted relief, the '"Frieze of the Archers of the Guard" at Persepolis, Susa are not Elamites they are Persians.


So, in my opinion. the painted and unpainted reliefs are both Persian archers.
Surprise, I also believe that hair of both figures hair is naturally curly (although not woolly.) The curls are big and loose rather than tightly curled and the wavy straight portions are either stretched out by the head gear , matted down or >the straight are the artificial parts.
I had been calling them Elamites but no longer.
Now I will just call them the "Frieze of the Archers". I am not absolutely sure but I now think they may be Persians rather than Elamites.
Note also the ASSUR RELIEF Elamites do not have that scoop portion at the back of their heads like these archers.
That doesn't necessarily make it wooley either. To me it could be woolly but it could also be just more tightly curled than the archers but not certainly woolly.
So if all the archers are Persians and the Frieze of the Archers are also Persian, were the Persians dark skinned?
-maybe, or maybe they had a range of skin tones
They don't strike me as African types, Why should they, it's Iran.
There are some blacks in Iran right now, however they they to be broad nosed and as far as I know trace their roots back to the Zanj or other Africans who came into to the region several hundred years or less. The medieval Islamic writer Al-Jahiz of Bashra may fhave been in part iof this ethnicity

However If we return to the Black Obelisk of Shalmaneser III figures, or the Lachish figures they are unpainted so color doesn't apply.
As per Persians Manilius Astronomica many hundreds of year later, he describes tanned Greeks and neighboring Syrians thus:

quote:

---

Quick witted Greece proclaims in the tanned faces of it's people the gymnasium and the manly wrestling schools. Curly hair about the temples betrays the Syrian.

---

yes, curly hair


More hundreds of years later Al-Jahiz states:

quote:

---

They say : The blacks are
more numerous than the whites. The whites at most consist of the people of Persia, Jibal,
and Khurasan, the Greeks, Slavs, Franks, and Avars, and some few others

---

-woolly hair is a beautiful thing, dark skin is a beautiful thing.
People with woolly hair can treat their hair in various ways to make it have a curly shape, that is larger curls then it's natural form or in some cases dredlocked.
But once it is in this form and depicted on a sculpture, at this point you can't tell it apart from other etncities who also have culry hair that is not woolly.


Louvre remarks below

'"Frieze of the Archers of the Guard" at Persepolis Susa


http://www.louvre.fr/en/oeuvre-notices/frieze-archers

quote:

---

This decorative frieze of polychrome glazed brick shows an army, the men carrying spears, bows and quivers. Are they the royal guards of Darius I (522–486 BC), whom Herodotus called “the Immortals,” or might they represent an idealized image of the Persian people? The frieze is probably inspired by the brick friezes of Babylon, although the technique is different. That may be a legacy from the Middle Elamite Period, which saw the appearance of decoration in glazed siliceous brick.
Archers on parade
The Frieze of Archers had two symmetrical lines of soldiers, parading at a slow march. Each archer’s hands are joined together on the shaft of his spear, and hanging from his shoulders is a bow, its ends in the form of duck’s heads, and a quiver. The butt of the spear, held vertical, rests on the front foot, shod like the other in a laced ankle-boot. The archers wear the long Persian robe, braided and pleated over the legs, the outline of whose ample sleeve describes a curve towards the belted waist. They are bearded, and their thick curly hair is massed at the nape of the neck, held back by a diadem of beaten metal. Each brick is molded from a quart-based body; its outer face is rectangular, but the brick tapers towards the back, a little like a quoin, so as to leave room for mortar when the decorated faces are butted up against each other. The frieze combines low relief and color, with glazes of green, brown, white and yellow separated by fine cloisons of siliceous body.
An inheritance from the Elamite period?
This decorative frieze was certainly inspired by the Processional Way in Babylon, constructed by Nebuchadnezar II (604–562 BC), but the technique is different. The Babylonians used clay for their bricks, rather than the siliceous material employed here. The artists who worked for Darius may have revived a technique developed at Susa by the Elamites in the Late Elamite Period at the end of the second millennium. Polychrome brick decoration in Iran would have a great future in the architecture of the Islamic age.
The Immortals?
Although the British archaeologist W. K. Loftus, the first to excavate at Susa, had identified the main lines of the apadana, he had recognized only isolated motifs, palmettes and rosettes, from its glazed brick decoration. When Marcel Dieulafoy continued his predecessor’s work he discovered enough bricks to make possible the fairly convincing reconstruction displayed at the Louvre: two panels representing a procession of archers, framed by decorative motifs and surmounted by crenellations inspired by the facades of the rock-tombs of Persepolis and Naqsh-e Rustam. The rare inscribed bricks, on which one can still make out the name of Darius, were positioned in the middle. The archers were then assembled as separate panels. While the Lion Frieze was found on the ground at its original position in the East Court of the palace, the exact location of the Frieze of Archers is unknown, countless bricks and fragments having been found more or less all over the place when the apadana was excavated. Their number does suggest a hypothesis: the archers may have been positioned at regular intervals in several registers, over the height of the wall, as at Babylon. They would then have occupied a great part of the exterior walls of the palace, extending over hundreds of metres. How should such a colossal ensemble be understood? Were these men the ‘Immortals,’ the élite regiment of 10,000 men? Or might they rather represent an ideal image, repeated to infinity, of the ‘Persian people,’ a constituent element of the unified empire brought together under the rule of the king, to whom it might have been necessary to accord a special place in the old Elamite capital of Susa?

---

[/QB]

---

So, what did your favorite classic Greek writer Herodotus wrote about the Elamites?



 

---

Posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 












Main Entry: ulot·ri·chous

Pronunciation: \-rə̇kəs\
Function: adjective

Etymology: New Latin Ulotrichi (plural) division of humankind having crisp or woolly hair (from Greek oulotrich-, oulothrix having curly or woolly hair, from oulos curly, woolly + trich-, thrix hair) + English -ous; akin to Greek eilein to roll, eilyein to roll, wrap — more at trich-, voluble

: exhibiting ulotrichy : having woolly or crisp hair


http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ulotrichous


the lioness productions team f*cked up again.


http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=008956;p=4#000150
 

---

Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
 
Trollkillah # Ish Gebor - Thank you for your additions. Don't you wonder what the problem is? Years ago when I first saw these reliefs, I immediately recognized that the ancients were using "Royal Crown" on their uncut tresses - he,he,he. As that is exactly what our hair looks like when brushed using that stuff.

Lioness I can understand trying to muddy the waters: but the African, is it that they are just so out of touch out there in the desert?
 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 
Trollkillah do you agree or disgree with Tukular?

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:
The top figure's hair is wavy at root with artificial curls at tip.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mike111:


Lioness I can understand trying to muddy the waters: but the African, is it that they are just so out of touch out there in the desert?

---

what African? No one knows what you are talking about, try to be clear
 

---

Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
 







 

---

Posted by Tukuler (Member # 19944) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:
the top of that strangers man's head can't even be seen.

---

Yepper and that's why my hi-resolution image showing that
the Elamite's hair beard sideburn and forelock are all woolly.

you know, the one Lyin'Ass don't like and refuses to reference and acts like he can't
see yet wants to turn his textile head cover under the headband into straight hair.
 

---

Posted by sero (Member # 19290) on :
 
He actually looks Dravidian.




 

---

Posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by sero:
He actually looks Dravidian.

---

^The hair texture of the people above is by far not the same wooly texture.





http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=008956;p=4#000150
 

---

Posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
Trollkillah do you agree or disgree with Tukular?

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

---

.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:
The top figure's hair is wavy at root with artificial curls at tip.

---

.

Trollkillah do you agree or disgree with Tukular that the above depicts artifiical curls
or are you uncertain?

I know you won't answer this because you are a coward that copies what other people say

Go ahead spam some more, I don't deal with cowards

---

I don't know, but what I do know is this...and unfortunately you didn't show what your favorite classic Greek writer Herodotus wrote about the Elamites!










Anyway, repost for the lioness productions team.

quote:

---

8 Cush had a son named Nimrod, who became the world's first great conqueror. 9 By the Lord's help he was a great hunter, and that is why people say, “May the Lord make you as great a hunter as Nimrod!” 10 At first his kingdom included Babylon, Erech, and Accad, all three of them in Babylonia. 11 From that land he went to Assyria and built the cities of Nineveh, Rehoboth Ir, Calah,

12 and Resen, which is between Nineveh and the great city of Calah.

---

quote:

---

"A potential issue that could in theory influence our findings is that the exact population contributing to African ancestry in West Eurasians is unknown. To gain insight into the African source populations, we carried out PCA analyses, which suggested that the African ancestry in West Eurasians is at least as closely related to East Africans (e.g. Hapmap3 Luhya (LWK)) as to West Africans (e.g. Nigerian Yoruba (YRI)) (the same analyses show that there is no evidence of relatedness to Chadic populations like Bulala) (Text S5 and Figure S12).

We also used the 4 Population Test to assess whether the tree ((LWK, YRI),(West Eurasian, CEU)) is consistent with the data, and found no evidence for a violation,

which is consistent with a mixture of either West African or East African ancestors or both contributing to the African ancestry in West Eurasians (Table S14; Figure S13). Historically, a mixture of West and East African ancestry is plausible, since African gene flow into West Eurasia is documented from both West Africa during Roman times [34] and from East Africa during migrations from Egypt [7]. It is important to point out, however, that the difficulty of pinpointing the exact African source population is not expected to bias our inferences about the total proportion and date of mixture. The f4 Ancestry Estimation method is unbiased even when we use a poor surrogates for the true ancestral African population (as long as the phylogeny is correct), as we confirmed by repeating analyses replacing YRI with LWK, and obtaining similar results (Table S15).Our ROLLOFF admixture date estimates are also similar whether we use LWK or YRI to represent ancestral African population (Table S15), as predicted by the theory.

---

quote:

---

"These results indicate that the ancestor of all Semitic languages in our dataset was being spoken in the Near East no earlier than approximately 7400 YBP, after having after having diverged from Afroasiatic in Africa"

(i) Semitic had an Early Bronze Age origin (approx. 5750 YBP) in the Levant, followed by an expansion of Akkadian into Mesopotamia;

(ii) Central and South Semitic diverged earlier than previously thought throughout the Levant during the Early to Middle Bronze Age transition; and

(iii) Ethiosemitic arose as the result of a single, possibly pre-Aksumite, introduction of a lineage from southern Arabia to the Horn of Africa approximately 2800 YBP.

---

-- (Ehret 1995; Ehret et al. 2004; Blench 2006).






All you do is make up delusional fantasies.
 

---

Posted by Tukuler (Member # 19944) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by sero:
He actually looks Dravidian.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:


Main Entry: ulot·ri·chous

Pronunciation: \-rə̇kəs\
Function: adjective

Etymology:
New Latin Ulotrichi (plural) division of humankind having crisp or woolly hair
(from Greek oulotrich-, oulothrix having curly or woolly hair,
from oulos curly, woolly + trich-, thrix hair) + English -ous; akin to Greek eilein to roll, eilyein to roll, wrap — more at trich-, voluble

: exhibiting ulotrichy : having woolly or crisp hair


http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ulotrichous


the lioness productions team f*cked up again.

---

.

And continues the same.
That's why I dubbed it
Lyin'Ass Phuckuptions
trying to escape woolly
by suggesting curly
It's only a matter of nap count
www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=005141#000029
 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 

Persian soldier, Persepolis, Susa


Relief of a warrior at the ancient ruins of Persepolis, Iran.
Notice the headband
Notice the hair at top
Notice the BS that fools are promoting

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:
the top of that strangers man's head can't even be seen.

---

Yepper and that's why my hi-resolution image showing that
the Elamite's hair beard sideburn and forelock are all woolly.

you know, the one Lyin'Ass don't like and refuses to reference and acts like he can't
see yet wants to turn his textile head cover under the headband into straight hair.

---

Tukular looses credibility here
First he lies and says he introduced a hi-resolution image when in fact it is an image with terrible color resolution and he acts like introduced this image into the thread when it was I who first posted it in this thread on page 3

Now with no evidence whatsoever he lies and makes up a story about a
"textile head cover " and to distract you from his lies he calls me " Lyin'Ass" like the high school student he is

I ask the readership

how is a piece of cloth going to do this:



(real version)


.

to this >>> ?????


^^^ I made this to show the shape, keyword shape, that a headband would make on a head of wooly hair > it forms a puff under it, not that scoop shape
And if there was cloth hnaging below the headband it would be on top this rounded puff shape


How is a piece of cloth going to make that scooped out shape in the real version???

>>>> But let's say for the sake of argument that there is a head cloth there

Well,
we don't know there's "wavy" straight hair under there do we ?

It might be wavy straight hair just like the other unpainted relief
if a head cloth is hanging down, then truth be told you don't know what's under it

And this painted archer relief above is probably not even an Elamite, he looks like the unpainted archers


REAL ELAMITE


American Black folk are out of their minds
 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 


According to Herodotus these are a form of Ethiopian
 

---

Posted by Tukuler (Member # 19944) on :
 
dp
 

---

Posted by Tukuler (Member # 19944) on :
 
Dumbass bitch

The textile covers the top of the head as well the back.

Do you think there's only one Elamite Immortal that ever got depicted?





It's over obvious what is hair and what is not hair.

Only fake thing 'round here is your fake ass.
 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 


Above, an Assyrian conqueror and Judaens captured in 701 BC in the town of Lachish in Israel
We see that the portion on the Assyrian's hair marked "A" is the exact same texture as the Judaen's hair

which statement is true:

1) The Assyrian had woolly hair. It's marked "A"
The portion marked "B" has been artificially straightened

2) The Assyrian had straight hair with a slight wave. It's marked "B"
The portion marked "A" and his beard have been artificially curled
to look like woolly hair

3) The Assyrian had curly hair marked "A" It was not originally woolly, just curly.
The portion marked "B" has been artificially straightened

4) The Assyrian had straight hair with a slight wave. It's marked "B"
The portion marked "A" and his beard have been artificially curled
to look like curly hair but not curly hair which was originally woolly
 

---

Posted by Tukuler (Member # 19944) on :
 
Dumbass bitch

There is no wavy / straight section of Judahite hair.
The Judahites' hair is very short and all segments
are woolly whereas the Assyrian's hair is straight
/ wavy except for the last few inches which are curled artificially. You nor anyone else has ever
seen 10 - 12 inches of lank flop down hair suddenly
become naturally curly for its last 2 -3 inches.

Curly and wooly are the same i.e., ulotrichous
by both modern and ancient definition as the
dictionary posted by Ish clearly states. The
difference is the intensity of the nap.


Not trying to convince you because you don't care
for the facts you only care to make anything even
remotely black to be limited to sub-Sahara Africa.


Intelligent lurkers and surfers though quiet are
surely not falling for your obvious face saving
bullshit.
 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:
Dumbass bitch

The textile covers the top of the head as well the back.

Do you think there's only one Elamite Immortal that ever got depicted?





It's over obvious what is hair and what is not hair.

Only fake thing 'round here is your fake ass.

---

Tukular has reduced himself to lying now

He is pretending there is fabic hanging below their yellowish headbands that remarkably has no pattern, is the same color as their hair and it's putting in a big dent shape in their hair for some reason

And the idiot doesn't realize if this were the case it would be covering up a portion of hair that on other Archers in Persepolis reliefs is straight

So even if this magical "textile" existed we would not know what type of hair was under it anyway, this fool doesn't realize it
 

---

Posted by Tukuler (Member # 19944) on :
 
You can fart out your mouth 'till the morning comes
and it'll never change all this primary documentation
the ancients living at the time left on record for us.


No hair lines on the top and upper back portions
of the Elamite's head just a purplish piece of textile.



The Elamites hair sideburn beard and forelock all are woolly.

Oh how you hate that. Too too bad for you. It is what it is.
 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:


Curly and wooly are the same

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:


Main Entry: ulot·ri·chous

Pronunciation: \-rə̇kəs\
Function: adjective

Etymology:
New Latin Ulotrichi (plural) division of humankind having crisp or woolly hair
(from Greek oulotrich-, oulothrix having curly or woolly hair,
from oulos curly, woolly + trich-, thrix hair) + English -ous; akin to Greek eilein to roll, eilyein to roll, wrap — more at trich-, voluble

: exhibiting ulotrichy : having woolly or crisp hair


http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ulotrichous


the lioness productions team f*cked up again.

---

.

And continues the same.
That's why I dubbed it
Lyin'Ass Phuckuptions
trying to escape woolly
by suggesting curly
It's only a matter of nap count
www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=005141#000029

---

• 3b Curly (Tight Curls) Medium amount of curl. Can have a combination texture.
  3c Curly (Corkscrews) Tight curls in corkscrews. The curls can be either kinky, or very tightly curled, with lots and lots of strands densely packed together.

Both are elliptical in cross section, it's only a
matter of degree. Your melanophobic ass farts
peppercorn as the only woolly hair. Phew, my
how you stink. Move away from me when you pass
your 'I will vehemntly deny any and all African-like
qualities in "SW Asia" people' ignorance gas.
 

---

Posted by Tukuler (Member # 19944) on :
 
You can fart out your mouth 'till the morning comes
and it'll never change all this primary documentation
the ancients living at the time left on record for us.


No hair lines on the top and upper back portions
of the Elamite's head just a purplish piece of textile (cloth).



The Elamites'
* hair
* sideburn
* beard and
* forelock
all are woolly as this hi-resolution detail shot reveals.

Oh how you hate that. Too too bad for you. It is what it is.
 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 


^^^^ This is a close up of what scholars are confident is an Elamite from a larger scene Tukuliar posted.
Elam was an ancient civilization centered in the far west and southwest of modern-day Iran.

Notice he doesn't look that similar to this archer, differences in the hair are obvious



(sorry for more good color quality photos)

^ Tukular has ZERO sources to back his claim that this man has anything other than a headband on his head

Scholars are not certain what ethnicity these archers are
The hair on this archer, resembles this >


Relief of a warrior at the ancient ruins of Persepolis, Iran.
(notice that there is even a small row of curls along the forehead)

he's got the sidburns that Tukular keeps trying to BS on

and the point that he is still too thick to get, is that if there was cloth hanging down form that headband it would be covering up a portion of hair that on other very similar figures at Persepolis that have straight hair in that section while the rest of their hair and beards are curly

It is so very obvious
 

---

Posted by Tukuler (Member # 19944) on :
 
OK, it may not be stiff cloth but whatever it is
it's not hair of any kind no way no shape no how.


Not trying to convince Lyin'Ass because he doesn't
care for facts he only cares to make anything even
remotely black to be limited to sub-Sahara Africa.


Intelligent lurkers and surfers though quiet are
surely not falling for his obvious face saving
melanophobic bullshit.
 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:
OK, it may not be stiff cloth but whatever it is
it's not hair of any kind no way no shape no how.


Not trying to convince Lyin'Ass because she doesn't
care for facts he only cares to make anything even
remotely black to be limited to sub-Sahara Africa.


Intelligent lurkers and surfers though quiet are
surely not falling for his obvious face saving
melanophobic bullshit.

---