quote:Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: Well we see here some of Asia's blacks also have nappy hair.
The Assyrians were African types?
Question..., did blacks ever make it to Assyria?
I said African types
"black" is a social construct term It is therefore what it means is open to widely varied interpretation and is not, in recent thinking, considered a scientific term ("nappy" isn't either)
"African type" refers to a specific geographic location, Africa
Also, whether an African type person made it to some location 40-50,000 years ago is irrelevant to specific populations in Assyria or Lachish 2,700 years ago
Within that span of time people evolve adpatations to new climates, drift and isolation and admixture may also be at play
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posted
^On second though lioness, don't bother trying to answer, just go away. The stupidity of your posts is irksome and tiring. Doug M and I had a sensible conversation going, and it has been supplanted by your nonsense posts. I suspect your function is to obscure that type of discussion.
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quote:Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: Well we see here some of Asia's blacks also have nappy hair.
The Assyrians were African types?
Question..., did blacks ever make it to Assyria?
I said African types
"black" is a social construct term It is therefore what it means is open to widely varied interpretation and is not, in recent thinking, considered a scientific term ("nappy" isn't either)
"African type" refers to a specific geographic location, Africa
Also, whether an African type person made it to some location 40-50,000 years ago is irrelevant to specific populations in Assyria or Lachish 2,700 years ago
Within that span of time people evolve adpatations to new climates, drift and isolation and admixture may also be at play
So, you imply that blacks never made it to Assyria, right?
I didn't mention 40-50,000 years ago, unless you're claiming that Assyria was that old. Anyway, ..."scientific term ("nappy" isn't either)", but caucasoid hair is?
So, did African types ever make it to Assyria?
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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After the capture of -alammu, the prisoners are brought before the Assyrian king. Some Assyrian soldiers carry the heads of the dead. The king Sennacherib, was shown in his chariot, but this part is now lost. ca. 700-692 BC. From Nineveh, south-west palace. WA 124786-7
British Museum
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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So you're suggesting that these people you've posted depict ancient Hebrews? Or that they depict those from the hieroglyphs being taken as captives to Assyria?
Also, who is the guy with dark hair, you've posted him allot, a lot of times on many different subjects, connecting him to many different regions of the world, including Africa.
Isaiah 20:4 So shall the king of Assyria lead away the Egyptians prisoners, and the Ethiopians captives, young and old, naked and barefoot, even with their buttocks uncovered, to the shame of Egypt.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: funny how, in trying to set me up, you left out the black people I had included....
To make comparisons on hair type I compared the Lachish relief to an African Amercian, European Americans and a Beja
So why are you asking me about a specific two ?
By now I have explained myself very clearly
You have nothing to contribute to the topic
You will destroy any thread, going in circles , reposting over and over again, not advancing any knowledge but only trying to play a game of test the lioness
I can't go with you there
It's very boring and repetative
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posted
Fragment of Assyrian relief from the palace of Arshurbanipal at Nineveh showing the storming of an Egyptian Town and capture of Nubians, 645 B.C., British Museum
Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
Enough already.
We show whole communities with nappy hair.
You show one individual here one individual there without showing that individual's community. Obviously because their hair type is outside the norm of their people, or even due to artificial treatment.
Our case is consistent
Your non-case is random
You want so desperately for the Lachish Jews not to have nappy hair.
You ignore historians who lived during the time of Judaea and ascribe Egyptian and Ethiopian ancestry for Judaeans in general and even write that members of another race are adapting the cultural heritage nationalizing as Geriym Ssadaqiym (converting to Judaea-ism).
"... other men, who, although of a different race, have adopted the laws of the people."
Cassius Dio Roman History 37:17:1
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler:
quote:Originally posted by Snakepit1:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
these short legged bearded people don't resemble Egyptians
Different haircut & different style of clothing. Remember that they EASILY passed for Egyptian when they wore Egyptian attire, as scripture states when Joseph passed for one (his brothers didn't recognize him, remember?) , Moses passed for one (being brought up by Egyptians, and being mistaken for one in Midian) and the whole congregation of Israel & Egyptians were described as being Egyptian when they went up to Jordan to bury Jacob.
They looked virtually indistinguishably from one another, phenotypically speaking. The Levitical laws are a testament to this (yellow/blonde-limp hair & white skin being equated to a curse/plague (leprosy) ) fact also.
There's no use discussing the phenotypical appearance to any of the indigenous peoples of North East Africa (which is what Arabia/Levant/Mesopotamia really is) .
. Also in the Greek books Paul, the Judean founder of Christianity was mistaken for an Egyptian
Art not thou that Egyptian ...
Acts 21:38
This aligns with Greco-Latin thought
One of the customs most zealously observed among the Aegyptians is this, that they rear every child that is born, and circumcise the males, and excise the females, as is also customary among the Judaeans, who also are Aegyptian in origin, as I have already stated in my account of them.
Strabo
then there's the most popular Roman opinion that Judeans are an Ćthiopian subset.
The majority of people say the Judaeans were those Ethiopians whom fear and hatred obliged to change their habitations, in the reign of king Cepheus.
Tacitus -- The Histories Book V
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Both pictures above are people from Lachish being deported by the Assyrians. These figures appear in the same scene, on the same path, with Assyrians in between them
Notice how the top figure at the ox cart has a skull cap-ish looking head gear and some kind of thing hanging down the side, perhaps a side lock, the figures in front perhaps women Are the figures in both pictures Hebrews? Historians aren't sure. Why do they look quite different ? It's odd If one group is not Hebrew that could not be determined with certainty, I've read the sources
___________________________________
Now let's look at the hair/beards of the lower figures for a moment
part of Assyrian's hair
captive figure's beard
^^^^^ Both of these parts of their hair or beards look the same. The dotted look, perhaps a bit of an artistic interpretation of hair not super realistic
However it is closer in scale to curly type of hair like the two people below:
The "dotted" look
^^^ this type of hair is not uncommon in Jews, it's called the "Jew fro" Curly hair is also not that rare in Europeans. It doesn't mean the Lachish figures are European.
It means you can't exclude a wide range of possibilites for their ethnicity based on the hair representation on these reliefs
____________________________________
The hair on those Lachish figures is not as close to nappy hair with a much finer texture, very small type frizzy curls like this >>
Nappy Nap
__________________________________________
and to use this relief to say for sure these figures formn Lachish are black African types is silly, you can't fool the lioness
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: funny how, in trying to set me up, you left out the black people I had included....
To make comparisons on hair type I compared the Lachish relief to an African Amercian, European Americans and a Beja
So why are you asking me about a specific two ?
By now I have explained myself very clearly
You have nothing to contribute to the topic
You will destroy any thread, going in circles , reposting over and over again, not advancing any knowledge but only trying to play a game of test the lioness
I can't go with you there
It's very boring and repetative
I'm asking what they have to do with the topic and the account? But you give some weird answers. While you removed this biblical citation.
Isaiah 20:4 So shall the king of Assyria lead away the Egyptians prisoners, and the Ethiopians captives, young and old, naked and barefoot, even with their buttocks uncovered, to the shame of Egypt.
I keep asking you if African types ever reached Assyria, for some strange reason you keep avoiding this question. Yet, you keep posting pictures of "white people". On that note, did any Africans ever reach Europe during the Neolithic time?
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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Both pictures above are people from Lachish being deported by the Assyrians. These figures appear in the same scene, on the same path, with Assyrians in between them
Notice how the top figure at the ox cart has a skull cap-ish looking head gear and some kind of thing hanging down the side, perhaps a side lock, the figures in front perhaps women Are the figures in both pictures Hebrews? Historians aren't sure. Why do they look quite different ? It's odd If one group is not Hebrew that could not be determined with certainty, I've read the sources
___________________________________
Now let's look at the hair/beards of the lower figures for a moment
part of Assyrian's hair
captive figure's beard
^^^^^ Both of these parts of their hair or beards look the same. The dotted look, perhaps a bit of an artistic interpretation of hair not super realistic
However it is closer in scale to curly type of hair like the two people below:
The "dotted" look
^^^ this type of hair is not uncommon in Jews, it's called the "Jew fro" Curly hair is also not that rare in Europeans. It doesn't mean the Lachish figures are European.
It means you can't exclude a wide range of possibilites for their ethnicity based on the hair representation on these reliefs
____________________________________
The hair on those Lachish figures is not as close to nappy hair with a much finer texture, very small type frizzy curls like this >>
Nappy Nap
__________________________________________
and to use this relief to say for sure these figures formn Lachish are black African types is silly, you can't fool the lioness
So, can you explain why curly and nappy hair is not strange in Europe. But loose to straight hair is to Africa?
We can now conclude that original Jews had "nappy Afro hair" and were taken as captives by the Assyrians, correct? And that "jews" without this hair nappy Afro hair texture are actually fake jews.
I think we are getting there, it's a slow process thou.
Isaiah 20:4 So shall the king of Assyria lead away the Egyptians prisoners, and the Ethiopians captives, young and old, naked and barefoot, even with their buttocks uncovered, to the shame of Egypt.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:
Isaiah 20:4 So shall the king of Assyria lead away the Egyptians prisoners, and the Ethiopians captives, young and old, naked and barefoot, even with their buttocks uncovered, to the shame of Egypt.
why are you quoting this?
the side topic was the invasion of Lachish not of Egypt As per the invasion of Egypt the Assyrians were said to have brought some of the captives to various parts of their Mesopotamian empire
quote:Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:
Isaiah 20:4 So shall the king of Assyria lead away the Egyptians prisoners, and the Ethiopians captives, young and old, naked and barefoot, even with their buttocks uncovered, to the shame of Egypt.
why are you quoting this?
the side topic was the invasion of Lachish not of Egypt As per the invasion of Egypt the Assyrians were said to have brought some of the captives to various parts of their Mesopotamian empire
And who exactly invaded the region Lachish and took the captives, yep the Assyrians...
And you keep avoiding the real questions. Of Ethiopians/ Cush and Assyrians. And wether Africans entered the region of Assyria.
You rather post pictures of random folks.
Isaiah 20:4 So shall the king of Assyria lead away the Egyptians prisoners, and the Ethiopians captives, young and old, naked and barefoot, even with their buttocks uncovered, to the shame of Egypt.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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posted
^Lioness has become an impediment to the progress of the forum. Those few who wish to contribute worthwhile thoughts and materials are swamped by her endless string of nonsense posts. Somebody needs to find Sammy and get her out of here.
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posted
Daily Life of the Nubians By Robert Steven Bianch
_____________________________________
Lachich, city of Judea
The Lachish reliefs: Judean family deported from the conquered city
detail form above scene
Ancient Near Eastern Art By Dominique Collon
^^^ It could be true that these are a defeated Nubian garrison in Lachish bowing to Sennacherib
However I hesitate to agree because Nubians are portrayed at the palace of Arshurbanipal without beards (as well as later at Persepolis). I'm not sure about it
posted
Trollkillah I shouldn't reply to you at all
I already said this
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
As per the invasion of Egypt the Assyrians were said to have brought some of the captives to various parts of their Mesopotamian empire
so why do you keep asking me if Africans entered the region of Assyria. ?
In other words -yes- the Assyrians were said to have brought some of the captives to various parts of their Mesopotamian empire, Assyria
Posts: 42920 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: The Lachish reliefs: A Judean family deported form the conquered city
Nice headware,
We can now conclude that ancient Hebrews actually had nappy Afro hear.
◄ Isaiah 37:9 ►
Now Sennacherib received a report that Tirhakah, the king of Cush, was marching out to fight against him. When he heard it, he sent messengers to Hezekiah with this word:
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: Trollkillah I shouldn't reply to you at all
I already said this
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
As per the invasion of Egypt the Assyrians were said to have brought some of the captives to various parts of their Mesopotamian empire
so why do you keep asking me if Africans entered the region of Assyria. ?
In other words -yes- the Assyrians were said to have brought some of the captives to various parts of their Mesopotamian empire, Assyria
I keep asking this because it's critical in the analysis.
So, we now have come to the conclusion that indeed Africans/ Cushitics/ Ethiopians were taken as captives to Assyria by Assyrians.
We have this in depiction and in recorded historical account, correct?
Isaiah 37: 8-13—Then Rabshakeh returned and found the king of Assyria fighting against Libnah, for he had heard that the king had left Lachish. When he heard them say concerning Tirhakah king of Cush, “He has come out to fight against you,” and when he heard it he sent messengers to Hezekiah, saying, “Thus you shall say to Hezekiah king of Judah, ‘Do not let your God in whom you trust deceive you, saying, “Jerusalem will not be given into the hand of the king of Assyria.” ‘Behold, you have heard what the kings of Assyria have done to all the lands, destroying them completely. So will you be spared? ‘Did the gods of those nations which my fathers have destroyed deliver them, even Gozan and Haran and Rezeph and the sons of Eden who were in Telassar? ‘Where is the king of Hamath, the king of Arpad, the king of the city of Sepharvaim, and of Hena and Ivvah?’”
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor: I keep asking this because it's critical in the analysis.
So, we now have come to the conclusion that indeed Africans/ Cushitics/ Ethiopians were taken as captives to Assyria by Assyrians.
We have this in depiction and in recorded historical account, correct?
The Assyrians deported conquered peoples from their homelands as a hedge against rebellion. However they didn't necessarily deport them to Assyria itself (Northern Mesopotamia/Iraq), but rather, to other parts of the Assyrian Empire, which at its height, included everything from Elam/Persia west to Egypt.
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quote:Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor: we now have come to the conclusion that indeed Africans/ Cushitics/ Ethiopians were taken as captives to Assyria by Assyrians.
We have this in depiction and in recorded historical account, correct?
I don't know you'll have to research that
They may or may not have reached Assyria
Who the Assyrians did or did not transport to Iraq is irrelevant to who the Judeans were or the Assyrians themselves
I just read somewhere that they took captives into their empire generally but I also recall they took a captured Judean popualtion into Assyria
About Nubians specifically I don't know, what Mike said may be correct. I haven't seen the primary sources
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: Daily Life of the Nubians By Robert Steven Bianch
_____________________________________
Lachich, city of Judea
The Lachish reliefs: Judean family deported from the conquered city
detail form above scene
Ancient Near Eastern Art By Dominique Collon
^^^ It could be true that these are a defeated Nubian garrison in Lachish bowing to Sennacherib
However I hesitate to agree because Nubians are portrayed at the palace of Arshurbanipal without beards (as well as later at Persepolis). I'm not sure about it
Why do you demand, or rather is it required for them to have beards necessarily?
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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posted
also the facial features and head shapes are different, the man below marked "Lachish" has a round head, the Nubians at right, oval shaped
Lachish man deported by Assyrians
^^^ here at left is the Lachish man being deported with his family, same as the head above. To his right Assyrians are holding two different looking tuype men horizontally. They have dotted looking hair like the other Lachish head above and I have read they are being flayed, having their skin removed
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: also the facial features are different
Lachish man deported by Assyrians
Yes, people tend to have facial differences. I am not going to object that.
Those btw are Nuba people..., and have different facial features, especially the first two, compared to the last two. You happen to show the last to for a certain purpose.
I also notice that the "Lachish man being deported", is being in a different position as from the others, "tuype men". Who are being slaughtered. Why?
Isaiah 20:4 So shall the king of Assyria lead away the Egyptians prisoners, and the Ethiopians captives, young and old, naked and barefoot, even with their buttocks uncovered, to the shame of Egypt.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:
Isaiah 20:4 So shall the king of Assyria lead away the Egyptians prisoners, and the Ethiopians captives, young and old, naked and barefoot, even with their buttocks uncovered, to the shame of Egypt.
You have a picture of an Ethiopian who could also be classified as Nubian, who is also beardless and a few hundred years after the Siege of Lachish is in Iraq bringing gifts of gold, ivory, ebony and slaves to the Persians not a naked captive as described in the Bible quote, that applies to an earlier period
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quote:Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:
Isaiah 20:4 So shall the king of Assyria lead away the Egyptians prisoners, and the Ethiopians captives, young and old, naked and barefoot, even with their buttocks uncovered, to the shame of Egypt.
You have a picture of an Ethiopian who could also be classified as Nubian, who is also beardless and a few hundred years after the Siege of Lachish is in Iraq bringing gifts of gold, ivory, ebony and slaves to the Persians not a naked captive as described in the Bible quote, that applies to an earlier period
So, now deal with several groups who had happy Afro hair, who were taken as captives to Assyria by Assyrians. That's the confirmation I was looking for.
I think we are getting somewhere.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: You have a picture of an Ethiopian who could also be classified as Nubian, who is also beardless and a few hundred years after the Siege of Lachish is in Iraq bringing gifts of gold, ivory, ebony and slaves to the Persians not a naked captive as described in the Bible quote, that applies to an earlier period
What evidence do you have that this man is a Nubian/Ethiopian?
A better question would be why do you continue to make false statements, even after you have been proven wrong many times?
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: You have a picture of an Ethiopian who could also be classified as Nubian, who is also beardless and a few hundred years after the Siege of Lachish is in Iraq bringing gifts of gold, ivory, ebony and slaves to the Persians not a naked captive as described in the Bible quote, that applies to an earlier period
What evidence do you have that this man is a Nubian/Ethiopian?
A better question would be why do you continue to make false statements, even after you have been proven wrong many times?
I am aware you don't think this is an African
Trollkillah first put up this picture in the thread
Let's let him verify the ethnicity of it, he left out info on it
quote:Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:
So, did African types ever make it to Assyria?
you think that's an African Trollkillah?
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quote:Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:
Isaiah 20:4 So shall the king of Assyria lead away the Egyptians prisoners, and the Ethiopians captives, young and old, naked and barefoot, even with their buttocks uncovered, to the shame of Egypt.
You have a picture of an Ethiopian who could also be classified as Nubian, who is also beardless and a few hundred years after the Siege of Lachish is in Iraq bringing gifts of gold, ivory, ebony and slaves to the Persians not a naked captive as described in the Bible quote, that applies to an earlier period
So, now deal with several groups who had happy Afro hair, who were taken as captives to Assyria by Assyrians. That's the confirmation I was looking for.
I think we are getting somewhere.
On what do you base he is Ethiopian, instead of Nubian?
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: also the facial features and head shapes are different, the man below marked "Lachish" has a round head, the Nubians at right, oval shaped
Lachish man deported by Assyrians
^^^ here at left is the Lachish man being deported with his family, same as the head above. To his right Assyrians are holding two different looking tuype men horizontally. They have dotted looking hair like the other Lachish head above and I have read they are being flayed, having their skin removed
quote: Nineveh, northern Iraq, Neo-Assyrian, about 700-681 BC
This alabaster panel was part of a series which decorated the walls of a room in the palace of King Sennacherib (reigned 704-681 BC). It tells the story of the siege and capture of the city of Lachish in 701 BC
The story continues from the previous panel (no. 9) of the relief. This section decorated a corner of the room.
Having been exiled from their city, the people of Lachish move through the countryside to be resettled elsewhere in the Assyrian Empire. Below them high officials and foreigners are being tortured and executed. It is likely that they are being flayed alive.
The foreigners are possibly officers from Nubia. The Nubians were seen as sharing responsibility for the rebellion. Much of Egypt at this time was ruled by a line of kings from Nubia (the Twenty-fifth Dynasty) who were keen to interfere in the politics of the Levant, to contain the threat of Assyrian expansion.
As Sennacherib's forces laid siege to Lachish, an Egyptian army appeared, led by a man called Taharqa, according to the Old Testament. He may be the later pharaoh of Egypt with the same name (690-664 BC).
Sennacherib's account claims that the rebels had called on the support of the kings of Egypt (Delta princes) and the Kings of Kush (Nubia). The armies clashed on the plain of Eltekeh. While Sennacherib claimed victory, he was still not able to capture Jerusalem.
The story continues on the next panel (no. 11) of the relief.
quote:Stone relief from the South-West Palace of Sennacherib
Nineveh, northern Iraq Neo-Assyrian, about 704-681 BC
Prisoners, probably from Phoenicia or Palestine, playing lyres
This is one small surviving fragment from a much larger composition. The scale effect on the background represents rough ground.
The musicians are often thought to have come from the state of Judah, though there is no evidence for this. The style of their dress is different to that worn by the people of Lachish (see for example, a panel showing the siege of Lachish). They are, however, almost certainly Western or Levantine in origin.
Music was clearly an important part of court life and Assyrian kings often refer to taking musicians into captivity as part of the deportation of defeated peoples. There is evidence of music in religious practice at an earlier period, but reliefs like this provide the first images of musical instruments in an ancient Near Eastern society that are not connected with a religious ceremony.
The musicians are playing lyres. They hold them more or less horizontally and use a plectrum. This type of lyre was possibly introduced into Assyria from the West in the first half of the second millennium BC. Only a few are known and the chronology and classification of the many forms of lyre in the Near East in the first millennium is neither complete nor certain.
J.E. Reade, Assyrian sculpture-1 (London, The British Museum Press, 1998)
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: You have a picture of an Ethiopian who could also be classified as Nubian, who is also beardless and a few hundred years after the Siege of Lachish is in Iraq bringing gifts of gold, ivory, ebony and slaves to the Persians not a naked captive as described in the Bible quote, that applies to an earlier period
What evidence do you have that this man is a Nubian/Ethiopian?
A better question would be why do you continue to make false statements, even after you have been proven wrong many times?
I am aware you don't think this is an African
Trollkillah first put up this picture in the thread
Let's let him verify the ethnicity of it, he left out info on it
quote:Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:
So, did African types ever make it to Assyria?
you think that's an African Trollkillah?
A Nubian (or Kushite) with an elephant's tusk
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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Good info lioness. What do you have on the Nubians as to their renown in chariotry and horses?
-------------------- Note: I am not an "Egyptologist" as claimed by some still bitter, defeated, trolls creating fake profiles and posts elsewhere. Hapless losers, you still fail. My output of hard data debunking racist nonsense has actually INCREASED since you began.. Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:
But what is it these other two have to do with the subject? What is it your implying? You have them up every so what minute.
The subject of this thread is the Black Obelisk of Shalmaneser III located in Northen Iraq. People didn't like that subject so I allowed myself to participate in a change of subject to reliefs in Lachish, Israel
To make comparisons on hair type I compared the Lachish relief to an African Amercian, European Americans and a Beja
So why are you asking me about a specific two ?
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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posted
Trollkillah # Ish Gebor - Neither Nubians nor Ethiopians were conquered by the Persians. Consequently they did not bring tribute to the Persians.
Identifying that delegation as Ethiopians was begun by the lying racists at the Oriental Institute of Chicago University, who like most Albinos, seek to have the world believe that Blacks only existed in Africa.
Ignoring the actual history, they based their identification solely on the mis-identification of the Antelope which they thought was the African Okapi:
The Antelope is actually the Asian Nilgai:
NOTE THE POSITION OF THE HORNS RELATIVE TO THE TOP OF THE HEAD.
(The Okapi's horns are midway down the head, NOT on top of the head).
Other Persian artifacts make it plain that these short haired Asian people (probably the Maka) were very close to the Persians, and were considered central supporters of the Empire.
quote:Stone relief from the South-West Palace of Sennacherib
Nineveh, northern Iraq Neo-Assyrian, about 704-681 BC
Prisoners, probably from Phoenicia or Palestine, playing lyres
This is one small surviving fragment from a much larger composition. The scale effect on the background represents rough ground.
The musicians are often thought to have come from the state of Judah, though there is no evidence for this. The style of their dress is different to that worn by the people of Lachish (see for example, a panel showing the siege of Lachish). They are, however, almost certainly Western or Levantine in origin.
Music was clearly an important part of court life and Assyrian kings often refer to taking musicians into captivity as part of the deportation of defeated peoples. There is evidence of music in religious practice at an earlier period, but reliefs like this provide the first images of musical instruments in an ancient Near Eastern society that are not connected with a religious ceremony.
The musicians are playing lyres. They hold them more or less horizontally and use a plectrum. This type of lyre was possibly introduced into Assyria from the West in the first half of the second millennium BC. Only a few are known and the chronology and classification of the many forms of lyre in the Near East in the first millennium is neither complete nor certain.
J.E. Reade, Assyrian sculpture-1 (London, The British Museum Press, 1998)
quote:Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:
[/QB]
Please identify the metal helmet
The left portion of the helmet hangs down, that is probably the back Therefore the curl at the top goes forward
The figures on the relief, on the other hand, have hats that may be made of cloth The flop down portion goes backward, there is no flower-like ornament and there is a crease like curved line, which may be a fold which does not appear on the metal helmet
I don't believe it's a match
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
What fool believes all black people look alike? Asiatic blacks do not 1:1 resemble African blacks. Indeed, there's no 1:1 resemblance between various African blacks themselves.
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Hellenizing Art in Ancient Nubia 300 B.C. - AD 250 and Its Egyptian Models ... By László Török, Laszlo Toro
Herodotus
Book 3 - THALIA
[3.97] Such then were the governments, and such the amounts of tribute at which they were assessed respectively. Persia alone has not been reckoned among the tributaries - and for this reason, because the country of the Persians is altogether exempt from tax. The following peoples paid no settled tribute, but brought gifts to the king: first, the Ethiopians bordering upon Egypt, who were reduced by Cambyses when he made war on the long-lived Ethiopians, and who dwell about the sacred city of Nysa, and have festivals in honour of Bacchus. The grain on which they and their next neighbours feed is the same as that used by the Calantian Indians. Their dwelling-houses are under ground. Every third year these two nations brought - and they still bring to my day - two choenices of virgin gold, two hundred logs of ebony, five Ethiopian boys, and twenty elephant tusks. The Colchians, and the neighbouring tribes who dwell between them and the Caucasus - for so far the Persian rule reaches, while north of the Caucasus no one fears them any longer - undertook to furnish a gift, which in my day was still brought every fifth year, consisting of a hundred boys, and the same number of maidens. The Arabs brought every year a thousand talents of frankincense. Such were the gifts which the king received over and above the tribute-money.
Three boys, one carrying possibly an elephant tusk, an adult Persian(?) man at right. These are possibly Nubian boys, however there are not five of them and they are not being led by a Nubian
Archers formed the core of Nubian armies that vied with Egypt for control over parts of the Nile valley, conquered Egypt in the 8th century BC, and confronted the troops of the Assyrian empire. The skill of Nubian archers made them valued members in the military forces of other lands. Egyptian texts as early as 2400 BC note Nubians in Egyptian armies. Representations of Nubian warriors appear in Egyptian tomb models, reliefs, and paintings in all periods of ancient Egyptian history. Nubian archers also served as warriors in the imperial army of Persia in the first millennium BC.
_____________________________________________
Dictionary of African Biography, Volumes 1-6 edited by Emmanuel Kwaku Akyeampong,
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: What fool believes all black people look alike? Asiatic blacks do not 1:1 resemble African blacks. Indeed, there's no 1:1 resemblance between various African blacks themselves.
when you say "blacks" do you mean black haired people?
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quote:Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:
Please identify the metal helmet
The left portion of the helmet hangs down, that is probably the back Therefore the curl at the top goes forward
The figures on the relief, on the other hand, have hats that may be made of cloth The flop down portion goes backward, there is no flower-like ornament and there is a crease like curved line, which may be a fold which does not appear on the metal helmet
I don't believe it's a match
Thanks for proving that you don't know what the heck you're talking about, with those blather excuses.
It was a very popular headwear, especially the origin of this headwear makes it even more interesting.
These are indeed helmets, but there are also "soft versions" made from yarn (cloth). And is being warn with the tip to the front or either to the back. It's essentially the same headwear.
Helmet in the form of a Kedaris (the headdress popular among the nomadic peoples of Anatolia), with elaborately chased patterning imitating the quilted fabric, and rosettes on the sides and peak.
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: What fool believes all black people look alike? Asiatic blacks do not 1:1 resemble African blacks. Indeed, there's no 1:1 resemblance between various African blacks themselves.
when you say "blacks" do you mean black haired people?
Probably "blacks" with different hair color and texture.
You know, you can't categorize, that would just simply be discrimination and perhaps even racist, phhh..
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: Hellenizing Art in Ancient Nubia 300 B.C. - AD 250 and Its Egyptian Models ... By László Török, Laszlo Toro
Herodotus
Book 3 - THALIA
[3.97] Such then were the governments, and such the amounts of tribute at which they were assessed respectively. Persia alone has not been reckoned among the tributaries - and for this reason, because the country of the Persians is altogether exempt from tax. The following peoples paid no settled tribute, but brought gifts to the king: first, the Ethiopians bordering upon Egypt, who were reduced by Cambyses when he made war on the long-lived Ethiopians, and who dwell about the sacred city of Nysa, and have festivals in honour of Bacchus. The grain on which they and their next neighbours feed is the same as that used by the Calantian Indians. Their dwelling-houses are under ground. Every third year these two nations brought - and they still bring to my day - two choenices of virgin gold, two hundred logs of ebony, five Ethiopian boys, and twenty elephant tusks. The Colchians, and the neighbouring tribes who dwell between them and the Caucasus - for so far the Persian rule reaches, while north of the Caucasus no one fears them any longer - undertook to furnish a gift, which in my day was still brought every fifth year, consisting of a hundred boys, and the same number of maidens. The Arabs brought every year a thousand talents of frankincense. Such were the gifts which the king received over and above the tribute-money.
Three boys, one carrying possibly an elephant tusk, an adult Persian(?) man at right. These are possibly Nubian boys, however there are not five of them and they are not being led by a Nubian
Archers formed the core of Nubian armies that vied with Egypt for control over parts of the Nile valley, conquered Egypt in the 8th century BC, and confronted the troops of the Assyrian empire. The skill of Nubian archers made them valued members in the military forces of other lands. Egyptian texts as early as 2400 BC note Nubians in Egyptian armies. Representations of Nubian warriors appear in Egyptian tomb models, reliefs, and paintings in all periods of ancient Egyptian history. Nubian archers also served as warriors in the imperial army of Persia in the first millennium BC.
_____________________________________________
Dictionary of African Biography, Volumes 1-6 edited by Emmanuel Kwaku Akyeampong,
We agree on a crossroad now.
So, on what do you base that these three "Nubian" figures were "boys"?
quote:"A potential issue that could in theory influence our findings is that the exact population contributing to African ancestry in West Eurasians is unknown. To gain insight into the African source populations, we carried out PCA analyses, which suggested that the African ancestry in West Eurasians is at least as closely related to East Africans (e.g. Hapmap3 Luhya (LWK)) as to West Africans (e.g. Nigerian Yoruba (YRI)) (the same analyses show that there is no evidence of relatedness to Chadic populations like Bulala) (Text S5 and Figure S12).
We also used the 4 Population Test to assess whether the tree ((LWK, YRI),(West Eurasian, CEU)) is consistent with the data, and found no evidence for a violation,
which is consistent with a mixture of either West African or East African ancestors or both contributing to the African ancestry in West Eurasians (Table S14; Figure S13). Historically, a mixture of West and East African ancestry is plausible, since African gene flow into West Eurasia is documented from both West Africa during Roman times [34] and from East Africa during migrations from Egypt [7]. It is important to point out, however, that the difficulty of pinpointing the exact African source population is not expected to bias our inferences about the total proportion and date of mixture. The f4 Ancestry Estimation method is unbiased even when we use a poor surrogates for the true ancestral African population (as long as the phylogeny is correct), as we confirmed by repeating analyses replacing YRI with LWK, and obtaining similar results (Table S15).Our ROLLOFF admixture date estimates are also similar whether we use LWK or YRI to represent ancestral African population (Table S15), as predicted by the theory.
--Moorjani et al.
quote: 8 Cush had a son named Nimrod, who became the world's first great conqueror. 9 By the Lord's help he was a great hunter, and that is why people say, “May the Lord make you as great a hunter as Nimrod!” 10 At first his kingdom included Babylon, Erech, and Accad, all three of them in Babylonia. 11 From that land he went to Assyria and built the cities of Nineveh, Rehoboth Ir, Calah,
12 and Resen, which is between Nineveh and the great city of Calah.
--Moshe et al.
Genesis 10.8-12
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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