posted
Let us now put this inane HAIR nonsense to bed PERMANENTLY!
Regardless of the lies by deluded and still fantasizing Albinos, that their history could POSSIBLY be True.
NO, there is no chance that your history could be true, just like there is NO chance that the ancients who created civilization could have possibly been Albinos like you.
Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
According to textual sources posted in this thread the Elamite Immortals invented sneakers but don't tell the indigenous blacks of the Kuwait Iraq Iran nexus, they may sue!
BTW commuting around today I ran into a Sidamo woman and admired her hairstyle. Sidamo women have an interesting way of styling nappy woolly hair. Check it.
Posts: 8179 | From: the Tekrur straddling Senegal & Mauritania | Registered: Dec 2011
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quote: In summary, we have documented a contribution of sub-Saharan African genetic material to many West Eurasian populations in the last few thousand years. A priority for future work should be to identify the source populations for this admixture. [...]
Source of African ancestry in West Eurasians may include some East African ancestors. In order to identify the source of the African ancestry in Levantines, Southern Europeans and Jews, we performed PCA Projection with all three possible pairs of African populations (Bulala, Kenyan Luhya (LWK) and Yoruba (YRI)) along with HapMap Chinese (CHB), and then plotted the mean values of all the samples from each West Eurasian population, African Americans (ASW) and North African (Mozabites) onto the first PC and second PC. These admixed West Eurasian populations align along a gradient that points more at (a) YRI than Bulala, and (b) LWK than Bulala suggesting little evidence for Chadic ancestry in West Eurasians, (c) The PCA suggests more relatedness to LWK than to YRI, suggesting that there may be some East African related ancestry in these West Eurasian populations.
~Moorjani et al. doi:10.1371/journal.pgen.1001373.s013 (0.23 MB DOC)
You have now proven that you are indeed a ignorant racist without a doubt. A real lying ass, as people call you.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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The finding of African ancestry in Southern Europe dating to ~55 generations ago, or ~1,600 years ago assuming 29 years per generation [30], needs to be placed in historical context. The historical record documents multiple interactions of African and European populations over this period. One potential opportunity for African gene flow was during the period of Roman occupation of North Africa that lasted until the early 5th century AD, and indeed tomb inscriptions and literary references suggest that trade relations continued even after that time [31], [32]. North Africa was also a supplier of goods and products such as wine and olive oil to Italy, Spain and Gaul from 200–600 AD, and Morocco was a major manufacturer of the processed fish sauce condiment, garum, which was imported by Romans [33]. In addition, there was slave trading across the western Sahara during Roman times [7], [34]. Another potential source of some of the African ancestry, especially in Spain and Portugal, is the invasion of Iberia by Moorish armies after 711 AD [35], [36]. If the Moors already had some African ancestry when they arrived in Southern Europe, and then admixed with Iberians, we would expect the admixture date to be older than the date of the invasion, as we observe.
The signal of African mixture that we detect in Levantines (Bedouins, Palestinians and Druze) – an average of 32 generations or ~1000 years ago – is more recent than the signal in Europeans, which might be related to the migrations between North Africa and Middle East that have occurred over the last thousand years, and the proximity of Levantine groups geographically to Africa. Syria and Palestine were under Egyptian political control until the 16th century AD when they were conquered by the Ottoman Empire. This is in concordance with our proposed dates. In addition, the Arab slave trade is responsible for the movement of large numbers of people from Africa across the Red Sea to Arabia from 650 to 1900 AD and probably even prior to the Islamic times [7], [37]. We caution that our sampling of the Middle East is sparse, and it will be of interest to study African ancestry in additional groups from this region
Introduction
The history of human migrations from Africa into West Eurasia is only partially understood. Archaeological and genetic evidence indicate that anatomically modern humans arrived in Europe from an African source at least 45,000 years ago, following the initial dispersal out of Africa [1], [2]. However, it is known that Southern Europeans and Levantines (people from modern day Palestine, Israel, Syria and Jordan) have also inherited genetic material of African origin due to subsequent migrations. One line of evidence comes from Y-chromosome [3] and mitochondrial DNA analyses [4]–[6]. These have identified haplogroups that are characteristic of sub-Saharan Africans in Southern Europeans and Levantines but not in Northern Europeans [7]. Auton et al. [8] presented nuclear genome-based evidence for sharing of sub-Saharan African ancestry in some West Eurasians, by identifying a North-South gradient of haplotype sharing between Europeans and sub-Saharan Africans, with the highest proportion of haplotype sharing observed in south/southwestern Europe. However, none of these studies used genome-wide data to estimate the proportion of African ancestry in West Eurasians, or the date(s) of mixture. Throughout this report, we use “African mixture” to refer to gene flow into West Eurasians since the divergence of the latter from East Asians; thus, we are not referring to the much older dispersal out of Africa ~45,000 years ago but instead to migrations that have occurred since that time.
special thanks to Trollkillah for the article
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
quote: "A striking finding from our study is the consistent detection of 3–5% sub-Saharan African ancestry in the 8 diverse Jewish groups we studied, * Ashkenazis (from northern Europe), * Sephardis (from Italy, Turkey and Greece), and * Mizrahis (from Syria, Iran and Iraq).
This pattern has not been detected in previous analyses of mitochondrial DNA and Y chromosome data [7], and although it can be seen when re-examining published results of STRUCTURE- like analyses of autosomal data, it was not highlighted in those studies, or shown to unambiguously reflect sub-Saharan African admixture [15,38]. We estimate that the average date of the mixture of 72 generations (~2,000 years assuming 29 years per generation [30]) is older than that in Southern Europeans or other Levantines.
The point estimates over all 8 populations are between 1,600–3,400 years ago, but with largely overlapping confidence intervals. It is intriguing that the Mizrahi Irani and Iraqi Jews— who are thought to descend at least in part from Jews who were exiled to Babylon about 2,600 years ago [39,40]—share the signal of African admixture. (An important caveat is that there is significant heterogeneity in the dates of African mixture in various Jewish populations.) A parsimonious explanation for these observations is that they reflect a history in which many of the Jewish groups descend from a common ancestral population which was itself admixed with Africans, prior to the beginning of the Jewish diaspora that occurred in 8th to 6th century BC [41]." --Moorjani 2011
^^Indeed. This debunks the claim that there was no sub-Saharan gene flow into Palestine/Middle East during Biblical times.
"Here, we apply genomic methods to show that the proportion of African ancestry in many Southern European groups is 1%–3%, in Middle Eastern groups is 4%–15%, and in\ Jewish groups is 3%–5%. " --Moorjani
^^It would be more accurate to say that the proportion of African ancestry being referred to is primarily WEST AFRICAN ancestry, specifically centered on the Yorbua. But the Yorbua are not the only "sub Saharan" group of Africans. Peoples of Ethiopia and Somalia and large parts of Chad and the Sudan are located below the Sahara and are thus "sub-Saharan" Africans. Studies using them to trace gene flow into Europe or the Middle East are just as valid as using West African Yorbua.
SOme racists in Hitler's time did charge Jews with having the blood of "inferior stocks", specifically "negro blood." Well their latter day racist "aryan" brethren could no doubt claim a link of Jews with said "negro blood" and cite the above as "proof." “[Nazi] Lectures, films, and history books taught these girls about a political and biological danger posed by Jews.. All told, there was "racial degeneration" during the Republic, resulting from the presence and dominance of Jews. Since his time in Palestine, the Jew was said to have absorbed Negro blood and to have a particular affinity to those French colonial Negroes.." --Michael Kater 2006 Hitler Youth, pg 100
"In his Foundations of the Nineteenth Century (1899) .. Houston Chamberlain classified Jews as "a mongrel race, which always retains this mongrel character." For Chamberlain, who was also admired by Hitler, the most recent “hybridization” of the Jews was the “admixture of Negro blood with Jewish in the Diaspora of Alexandria— of which many a man of Jewish persuasion at this day offers living proof" (CHamberlain as cited in Gilman 1986,7). --Baum and Samuels, 2011. Antisemitism Explained. p 19
Dienekes said:
Another idea is to see whether frequency differences between A and B are correlated with frequency differences between Sub-Saharans and another Eurasian population unrelated to either A or B. Differences between Caucasoids and Sub-Saharans are (in part) due to divergence between Sub-Saharans and ancestral Eurasians. Suppose, for example, that we've identified a group (e.g., Papuans) unlikely to have admixed with Caucasoids. If B differs from A (over many markers) in the same direction that Sub-Saharans differ from Papuans, this is consistent with the notion that B has some Sub-Saharan admixture that A lacks. This is the basis of the 4-population test.
Note that because of symmetry, a highly negative value in their 4-population test (x, CEU, Papuan, YRI) indicates Sub-Saharan admixture, while a highly positive one would indicate "Papuan" admixture! The authors do observe positive values, suggesting that some northern European populations are Papuan-shifted even with respect to CEU, most notably Russia with a Z-score of 11.4. Thankfully, we are spared a paper on Papuan admixture in Russia.
^^Irrelevant. The study did not focus on Papuans but Africans. The comparison falls flat and does not change the fact of the African admixture. And a positive shift would not at all have anything to do with a direct "Papuan admix" towards Europeans, but rather a signal towards Asian genetic elements. Europeans, depending on the measure used, signal genetically more towards Asians as Cavalli Sforza and others show, in terms of being a hybrid population.
Dienkes says: Much more can be said, but let's summarize: the model of Moorjani et al. (2011) fails because:
1 It does not account for the West-East Eurasian axis, folding everything onto the North European-Sub-Saharan African one 2 It undersamples African diversity by excluding both North African and East African populations
Perhaps I'll add more in the future, but I believe I've already said enough to cast serious doubt on this paper'
^^Wrong. It did not have to account for any West-East axis. The study question relates to the level of African admixture in different European and Middle Eastern populations, and samples Palestinians, Jews, Mediterranean's (like Italians and Spaniards) and Swiss-French. The study is not concerned with distant East Eurasians like Chinese and does not need to sample them to be valid. Far from failing, the study is confirmed by others that show clear African gene flow into Europe and the Middle East from ancient times.
And sure it undersamples African diversity, but that does not change the fact of the African admixture which cannot be airbrushed away.
DIenkes has "serious doubts" because it shows his beloved "Caucasoids" to be "mixed" - using classical race schema he subscribes to- a hybrid population as also shown by Cavalli-Sforza previously. Moorjani has not "failed" in showing the presence of admixture.
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
Reposted Enrique for Moorjani relevance.
quote:The point estimates over all 8 populations are between 1,600–3,400 years ago, but with largely overlapping confidence intervals. It is intriguing that the Mizrahi Irani and Iraqi Jews— who are thought to descend at least in part from Jews who were exiled to Babylon about 2,600 years ago [39,40]—share the signal of African admixture. (An important caveat is that there is significant heterogeneity in the dates of African mixture in various Jewish populations.) A parsimonious explanation for these observations is that they reflect a history in which many of the Jewish groups descend from a common ancestral population which was itself admixed with Africans, prior to the beginning of the Jewish diaspora that occurred in 8th to 6th century BC [41]." --Moorjani 2011
^^Indeed. This debunks the claim that there was no sub-Saharan gene flow into Palestine/Middle East during Biblical times.
Careful analysis of Cavalli-Sforza and Bowcock show the 1/3 2/3 statement is false nor did it hold much water >15y because of sampling bias and "treeing disconnections", not to go into all that here and now.
Posts: 8179 | From: the Tekrur straddling Senegal & Mauritania | Registered: Dec 2011
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The finding of African ancestry in Southern Europe dating to ~55 generations ago, or ~1,600 years ago assuming 29 years per generation [30], needs to be placed in historical context. The historical record documents multiple interactions of African and European populations over this period. One potential opportunity for African gene flow was during the period of Roman occupation of North Africa that lasted until the early 5th century AD, and indeed tomb inscriptions and literary references suggest that trade relations continued even after that time [31], [32]. North Africa was also a supplier of goods and products such as wine and olive oil to Italy, Spain and Gaul from 200–600 AD, and Morocco was a major manufacturer of the processed fish sauce condiment, garum, which was imported by Romans [33]. In addition, there was slave trading across the western Sahara during Roman times [7], [34]. Another potential source of some of the African ancestry, especially in Spain and Portugal, is the invasion of Iberia by Moorish armies after 711 AD [35], [36]. If the Moors already had some African ancestry when they arrived in Southern Europe, and then admixed with Iberians, we would expect the admixture date to be older than the date of the invasion, as we observe.
The signal of African mixture that we detect in Levantines (Bedouins, Palestinians and Druze) – an average of 32 generations or ~1000 years ago – is more recent than the signal in Europeans, which might be related to the migrations between North Africa and Middle East that have occurred over the last thousand years, and the proximity of Levantine groups geographically to Africa. Syria and Palestine were under Egyptian political control until the 16th century AD when they were conquered by the Ottoman Empire. This is in concordance with our proposed dates. In addition, the Arab slave trade is responsible for the movement of large numbers of people from Africa across the Red Sea to Arabia from 650 to 1900 AD and probably even prior to the Islamic times [7], [37]. We caution that our sampling of the Middle East is sparse, and it will be of interest to study African ancestry in additional groups from this region
Introduction
The history of human migrations from Africa into West Eurasia is only partially understood. Archaeological and genetic evidence indicate that anatomically modern humans arrived in Europe from an African source at least 45,000 years ago, following the initial dispersal out of Africa [1], [2]. However, it is known that Southern Europeans and Levantines (people from modern day Palestine, Israel, Syria and Jordan) have also inherited genetic material of African origin due to subsequent migrations. One line of evidence comes from Y-chromosome [3] and mitochondrial DNA analyses [4]–[6]. These have identified haplogroups that are characteristic of sub-Saharan Africans in Southern Europeans and Levantines but not in Northern Europeans [7]. Auton et al. [8] presented nuclear genome-based evidence for sharing of sub-Saharan African ancestry in some West Eurasians, by identifying a North-South gradient of haplotype sharing between Europeans and sub-Saharan Africans, with the highest proportion of haplotype sharing observed in south/southwestern Europe. However, none of these studies used genome-wide data to estimate the proportion of African ancestry in West Eurasians, or the date(s) of mixture. Throughout this report, we use “African mixture” to refer to gene flow into West Eurasians since the divergence of the latter from East Asians; thus, we are not referring to the much older dispersal out of Africa ~45,000 years ago but instead to migrations that have occurred since that time.
special thanks to Trollkillah for the article
You're welcome, unfortunately these authors didn't que-in outgoing stems such as the Natufians in the Levant or Africans Europe entered via the Iberia.
This paper eventually may characterize the final population replacement.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Mike111: Trollkillah # Ish Gebor, you disappoint me: lioness is but a degenerate nobody, desperately trying to hold onto an Albino fantasy.
Please peruse the source study linked below, and take careful note of the various Albino institutions of great renown, involved in the study.
There is no letup, they are still trying to bury you!
BTW - Did you notice the nonsensical assumptions of the study? Where is the protest of Black academics? The Albino people are still free to say whatever they like, identify things and people as they wish, and there is still no organized truth-telling. Oddly enough, I was just looking at middle eastern artwork where they shamelessly do the same thing, note my new thread.
I agree, there is and was no protest by black academics. There need to be more in the field. And yes, I do see that lioness is holding on to Eurocentric fantasies.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: these short legged bearded people don't resemble Egyptians
Different haircut & different style of clothing. Remember that they EASILY passed for Egyptian when they wore Egyptian attire, as scripture states when Joseph passed for one (his brothers didn't recognize him, remember?) , Moses passed for one (being brought up by Egyptians, and being mistaken for one in Midian) and the whole congregation of Israel & Egyptians were described as being Egyptian when they went up to Jordan to bury Jacob.
They looked virtually indistinguishably from one another, phenotypically speaking. The Levitical laws are a testament to this (yellow/blonde-limp hair & white skin being equated to a curse/plague (leprosy) ) fact also.
There's no use discussing the phenotypical appearance to any of the indigenous peoples of North East Africa (which is what Arabia/Levant/Mesopotamia really is) .
You mean to tell be these short legged Israelites and Assyrians
Figure 1.--This Assyrian carving at Lachish shows Hebrews being led into exile by Sargon's son Sennacherib after Hezekiah's failed revolot (701 BC).
Assyrirans with Hebrew cpatives
look like Egyptians
SETI I, at Abydos
RAMESSES II, Karnak
RAMESSES II, Karnak
^^^ look at how long and thin they are compared to the short stubby Assyrians and Hebrews who look similar and the Assyrians and some of the Hebrews had big full curly beards that I'm not even sure the ancient Egyptians could grow
(assuming the Lacish art is realistically accuurate, it may not be)
You're not taking into account that different peoples often portray themselves differently (in terms of body proportions etc). Since the Egyptians were Africans, I don't see why they wouldn't have been able to grow beards. Why shouldn't they?
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: [QB] [IMG]
A relief isn't a picture and wasn't meant to be totally realistic.
Here an Ashkenazi Jew Johanathan looking similar like these captives in the assyrian relief.
Here very like enslaved Hebrews with different hairstyle on an Assyrian relief. Some of them wear the same headdress and clothing like the captured Hebrews in the Lachish relief.
posted
For the German clown above. Stop spreading your LIES!
A Semitic slave. Ancient Egyptian figurine. Hecht Museum
quote:
"The origin of Eastern European Jews revealed by autosomal, sex chromosomal and mtDNA polymorphisms"
The origin of Eastern European Jews, (EEJ) by far the largest and most important Ashkenazi population, and their affinities to other Jewish and European populations are still not resolved.
Studies that compared them by genetic distance analysis of autosomal markers to European Mediterranean populations revealed that they are closer to Europeans than to other Jewish populations [1-3].
In contrast, according to the Y-chromosomal haplogroups EEJ are closest to the non-Jewish populations of the Eastern Mediterranean (table 3, figure 4).
"EEJ are the largest and most investigated Jewish community, yet their history as Franco-German Jewry is known to us only since their appearance in the 9th century, and their subsequent migration a few hundred years later to Eastern Europe [4,5]. Where did these Jews come from? It seems that they came to Germany and France from Italy [5-8].
It is also possible that some Jews migrated northward from the Italian colonies on the northern shore of the Black Sea [9]. All these Jews are likely the descendents of proselytes.
Conversion to Judaism was common in Rome in the first centuries BC and AD. Judaism gained many followers among all ranks of Roman Society [10-13]."
The autosomal genetic distance analysis presented here clearly demonstrates that the investigated Jewish populations do not share a common origin.
The resemblance of EEJ to Italians and other European populations portrays them as an autochthonous European population.
**The demographic histories of three Jewish populations exemplify how different demographic patterns make the uniparental markers more reliable for Iraqi (Babylonian) Jews and Yemenite Jews and less reliable for EEJ. Both Yemenite Jews and Iraqi Jews resemble populations from their regions of origin according to autosomal markers [1,3,30-32].
**Babylonian Jews numbered more than a million in the first century AD [35], and constituted the majority of the population in the area between the Euphrates and the Tigris in the 2nd-3rd centuries AD [36]. Gilbert [37] estimates that by 600 AD there were 806,000 Jews in Mesopotamia, and according to Sassoon [38] it was inhabited by about a million Jews in the 7th century. In the 14th century the estimates for Baghdad alone range from 70,000 to hundreds thousands [38].
*By comparing the structure of the STRs network among the various Ashkenazi populations and among the various European non-Jewish populations they reached the conclusion that a single male founder introduced this haplogroup into Ashkenazi Jews in the first millennium.
--Avshalom Zoossmann-Diskin1,2,3 et al. The origin of Eastern European Jews revealed by autosomal, sex chromosomal and mtDNA polymorphisms 1 Department of Haematology and Genetic Pathology, School of Medicine, Flinders University, Adelaide, Australia 2 Department of Human Genetics, Sackler Faculty of Medicine, Tel-Aviv University, Israel 3 Current Address: Blood Bank, Sheba Medical Center, Ramat-Gan 52621, Israel
Study identifies genetic signatures for 3.5 million Ashkenazi Jews
NEW YORK — About 3.5 million of today’s Ashkenazi Jews — 40 percent of the total Ashkenazi population — are descended from just four women, a genetic study indicates. Those women apparently lived somewhere in Europe within the last 2,000 years, but not necessarily in the same place or even the same century, said lead author Dr. Doron Behar of the Rambam Medical Center in Haifa, Israel.
He did the work with Karl Skorecki of the Technion-Israel Institute of Technology and others.
Each woman left a genetic signature that shows up in their descendants today, he and colleagues say in a report published online by the American Journal of Human Genetics. Together, their four signatures appear in about 40 percent of Ashkenazi Jews, while being virtually absent in non-Jews and found only rarely in Jews of non-Ashkenazi origin, the researchers said.
They said the total Ashkenazi population is estimated at around 8 million people. The estimated world Jewish population is about 13 million.
Ashkenazi Jews are a group with mainly central and eastern European ancestry. Ultimately, though, they can be traced back to Jews who migrated from Israel to Italy in the first and second centuries, Behar said. Eventually this group moved to Eastern Europe in the 12th and 13th centuries and expanded greatly, reaching about 10 million just before World War II, he said.
Maternal lineages traced
The study involved mitochondrial DNA, called mtDNA, which is passed only through the mother. A woman can pass her mtDNA to grandchildren only by having daughters. So mtDNA is “the perfect tool to trace maternal lineages,” Behar said Thursday in a telephone interview.
His study involved analyzing mtDNA from more than 11,000 samples representing 67 populations.
Mike Hammer, who does similar research at the University of Arizona, said he found the work tracing back to just four ancestors “quite plausible ... I think they’ve done a really good job of tackling this question.”
But he said it’s not clear the women lived in Europe.
“They may have existed in the Near East,” Hammer said. “We don’t know exactly where the four women were, but their descendants left a legacy in the population today, whereas ... other women’s descendants did not.”
Behar said the four women he referred to did inherit their genetic signatures from female ancestors who lived in the Near East. But he said he preferred to focus on these later European descendants because they were at the root of the Ashkenazi population explosion.
Male and Female prisoners Siege of Lachish. Review of Prisoners. Assyrian, about 700-692 BC. From Nineveh, South-West Palace, Room XXXII, panels 7-8. The prisoners, who have probably been captured during one of Sennacherib's campaigns in Iran or eastern Turkey, are brought into the presence of the king, who will have been shown on a panel further to the right. W A 124902-3 Lachish Reliefs, Object 21 of 100, British Museum
Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
quote:The prisoners, who have probably been captured during one of Sennacherib's campaigns in Iran or eastern Turkey,
Differences in detail lead to supposing the individuals are actually from Ukku. Their dress for instance resembles that of Alammu another place Sennacherib beat down.
The Lachish 'wallpaper' is below the individuals.
What's the order of conquest between Lukku Alammu and Lachish per Sennacherib's chronicles?
quote:Originally posted on p3 of this thread by Tukuler: More Lachish Jewish women with their woolly haired husbands?
quote:Originally posted by real expert: A relief isn't a picture and wasn't meant to be totally realistic.
Here an Ashkenazi Jew Johanathan looking similar like these captives in the assyrian relief.
Here very like enslaved Hebrews with different hairstyle on an Assyrian relief. Some of them wear the same headdress and clothing like the captured Hebrews in the Lachish relief.
quote:Many assure us that the Jews are descended from those Ethiopians who were driven by fear and hatred to emigrate from their home country when Cepheus was king. There are some who say that a motley collection of landless Assyrians occupied a part of Egypt, and then built cities of their own, inhabiting the lands of the Hebrews and the nearer parts of Syria. Others again find a famous ancestry for the Jews in the Solymi who are mentioned with respect in the epics of Homer: this tribe is supposed to have founded Jerusalem (4) and named it after themselves.
~Cornelius Tacitus (AD 55 - 117), The Histories by Cornelius Tacitus.
I have to read more upon the Lachish to see the clear connections between the Beta Israel (House of Israel) and Lachish.
quote:“Haplogroup L2a1 was found in two specimens from the Southern Levant Pre-Pottery Neolithic B site at Tell Halula, Syria, dating from the period between ca. 9600 and ca. 8000 BP or 7500-6000 BCE”
~Fernández, E. et al., MtDNA analysis of ancient samples from Castellón (Spain): Diachronic variation and genetic relationships, International Congress Series, vol. 1288 (April 2006), pp. 127-129.
quote: Jericho, Arabic Arīḥā, town located in the West Bank. Jericho is one of the earliest continuous settlements in the world, dating perhaps from about 9000 BCE. Archaeological excavations have demonstrated Jericho’s lengthy history.
quote: “Populations for which the ancient Caucasus genomes are best ancestral approximations include those of the Southern Caucasus and interestingly, South and Central Asia. Western Europe tends to be a mix of early farmers and western/eastern hunter-gatherers while Middle Eastern genomes are described as a mix of early farmers and Africans.
[…]
Caucasus hunter-gatherer contribution to subsequent populations. We next explored the extent to which Bichon and CHG contributed to contemporary populations using outgroup f3(African; modern, ancient) statistics, which measure the shared genetic history between an ancient genome and a modern population since they diverged from an African outgroup.
Discussion
Given their geographic origin, it seems likely that CHG and EF are the descendants of early colonists from Africa who stopped south of the Caucasus, in an area stretching south to the Levant and possibly east towards Central and South Asia. WHG, on the other hand, are likely the descendants of a wave that expanded further into Europe. The separation of these populations is one that stretches back before the Holocene, as indicated by local continuity through the Late Palaeolithic/Mesolithic boundary and deep coalescence estimates, which date to around the LGM and earlier.”
~Jones, E. R., G. Gonzalez-Fortes, S. Connell, V. Siska, A. Eriksson, R. Martiniano, R. L. McLaughlin, et al. 2015. Upper Palaeolithic genomes reveal deep roots of modern Eurasians.” Nature Communications 6 (1): 8912. doi:10.1038/ncomms9912. http://dx.doi.org/10.1038/ncomms9912.Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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They made no exceptions, many children can be seen. Btw, can you show an entire white/ European population looking like the Lachish males with Afro-textured hair, who are being persecuted? I ask so, considering the fact that you posted the individual Richard Simmons a few years back as a proximity for the Lachish. And how does it register with this?
"Lachish was destroyed and its Jewish inhabitants were exiled. Sennacherib besieged Hezekiah within Jerusalem “like a bird in a cage”, he states in his annals of Sennacherib. Ironically, Hezekiah did pay the tribute at the end. […]
The inhabitants of Lachish were deported to other areas within the Assyrian Empire. Where did they go and with whom did they live? Language barriers, religious differences and cultural conflicts had to be adjusted in order to live peacefully. For how long did they live in their exile and for how many generations? Are their descendants part of the Jewish population of Iraq, my country? I think Lachish’s people are braver than Hezekiah and Sennacherib."
quote:The prisoners, who have probably been captured during one of Sennacherib's campaigns in Iran or eastern Turkey,
Differences in detail lead to supposing the individuals are actually from Ukku. Their dress for instance resembles that of Alammu another place Sennacherib beat down.
The Lachish 'wallpaper' is below the individuals.
What's the order of conquest between Lukku Alammu and Lachish per Sennacherib's chronicles?
quote:Originally posted on p3 of this thread by Tukuler: More Lachish Jewish women with their woolly haired husbands?
quote: Herodotus called Susa "the city of Memnon," Herodotus describes two tall statues with Egyptian and Ethiopian dress that some, he says, identify as Memnon; he disagrees, having previously stated that he believes it to be Sesostris.
~Kevin Burrell, (p.164) Cushites in the Hebrew Bible: Negotiating Ethnic Identity in the Past and Present (2020).
quote: In discussing the royal road from Sardis to Susa, Herodotus also referred to ‘the king’s abode called Memnonian’ and said of Susa, ‘that is the city called Memnonian.’16 The association between Cissia, Tithonus and Memnon was also explicit in Strabo who wrote, ‘Susis also is almost a part of Persis. It lies between Persis and Babylonia, and has a very considerable city, Susa....It is said to have been founded by Tithonus, the father of Memnon. Its compass was 120 stadia. Its shape was oblong. The Acropolis was called Memnonium. The Susians have the name also of Cissii.’17
Writing of a fragment believed to originate in Aeschylus’ Memnon, West noted, ‘The speaker, prob- ably Priam himself, is interrogating the newcomer and has learned that he is a native of Ethiopia; he finds no fault with that, but awaits further clarification.
~D.T. Potts, New York University Between Myth and History: Susa and Memnon through the ages 2017, Vol. 1, No. 4
quote: There is some evidence leading to the belief that a protonegroid population once extended westward from India along the shores of the Persian Gulf. Individuals of that group seem to be portrayed on seventh century B.C. reliefs of an Assyrian king. 38 Greek authors speak of "Ethiopians" in the southeast of the land; 39 their modern descendants possess copper skins, straight hair, and round skulls.
So far as it is possible to determine, in ancient times there were longheaded races in Iran preceding the Nordic peoples. The basis for this belief is found in the appearance, in Mesopotamia, of a brown Eurafrican type of man. Our present evidence concerning him is indeed scanty, but seems to suggest a remote physical connection with India. 41 It is possible that these longheads themselves were Sumerians, or were related to them, for it has been said that one can still.
Our present evidence concerning him is indeed scanty, but seems to suggest a remote 41 38 Cf. the upper register of the Ashurbanipal relief in E. Pottier, Les Antiquites assyriennes (du Mus6e du Louvre) (Paris, 1917), PI. 23; for details cf. Victor Place, Ninive et V Assyrie, Vol. Ill (Paris, 1867), PI. 59, No. 1. Or seeH. R. Hall, Babylonianand Assyrian Sculpture in the British Museum (Paris and Brussels, 1928), PI. XLIV . Finally, cf. the Achae- menian reliefs from Susa in M. Dieulafoy, Uacropole de Suse (Paris, 1893), Pis. V and VI. Herodotus vii. 70;Strabo xv, 1,13, and 24.
*° Dieulafoy, Uacropole de Suse, p. 28. 41 Buxton in L. H. Dudley Buxton and D. Talbot Rice, "Report on the Human Remains Found at Kish," Journal of the Royal Anthropological Institute, LXI (1931), 57-119, esp. pp. 84 ff. century B .C . reliefs of an Assyrian king. thors speak of "Ethiopians" in the southeast of the land;39 their modern descendants possess copper skins, straight hair, and round skulls. ever, safe to say that these peoples never constituted an important or a large element in the population.
~George G. Cameron, The History of Early Iran
quote:By 701 BCE the Assyrian kings, based in Nineveh (modern-day Mosul Governorate, Iraq), built their enormous empire. It stretched from modern-day Iran to Egypt and covered most of the modern-day Middle East.
quote: The city was best known through the Christian era (and still is) by the central role it plays in the biblical Book of Jonah. The Book of Jonah was written between 500-400 BCE depicting events from hundreds of years earlier in the reign of the Hebrew King Jeroboam II (786-746 BCE).
quote: The Lachish reliefs are a set of Assyrian palace reliefs narrating the story of the Assyrian victory over the kingdom of Judah during the siege of Lachish in 701 BCE. Carved between 700-681 BCE, as a decoration of the South-West Palace of Sennacherib in Nineveh (in modern Iraq) […]
The events surrounding the conquest of Lachish are recorded in an unparalleled number of sources for the 8th century BCE; in the Hebrew Bible, the Lachish reliefs, Assyrian cuneiform prisms and in the archeological excavations at Lachish.[7] Sennacherib's conquests of Judean cities, without the capital Jerusalem, are mentioned in the Bible, the book of Kings, Book of Chronicles and in the book of Isaiah.
"Later, when Sennacherib king of Assyria and all his forces were laying siege to Lachish, he sent his officers to Jerusalem with this message for Hezekiah king of Judah and for all the people of Judah who were there"-(II Chronicles 32:9)
"Now it came to pass in the fourteenth year of King Hezekiah that Sennacherib king of Assyria came up against all the fortified cities of Judah and took them." - (Isaiah 36:1-2)
quote: The Ezra and Nehemiah traditions also show Jews who were given significant posts by Persian rulers. Yet Ezra states that the Jews of the province of Yehud are “slaves” in the Persian Empire (Ezra 9:7-9). Some of the hardships suffered by the people are outlined in Neh 5, though whether their lot was different then than it was in other periods is an open question (since crop failure, borrowing, and losing loan collateral were problems experienced throughout history). [...]
In other texts, individuals with Yahwistic names were small holders or lower-rank officials. We also have an archive of texts relating to the house of Murashu, a business and financial establishment of the Persian period that employed Jews as servants or agents. The Jews seem to have been well integrated into society. Apart from Antiochus IV, persecutions of Jewish communities seem to have been local rather than imperial actions, until the Roman Empire became Christianized.
quote: The Murashu tablets provide a glimpse into what life was like for fifth-century Jewish descendants of the Babylonian Exile and captivity. After the Persian king Cyrus the Great captured Babylon in 539 BCE, he allowed and helped finance the return of Jews to Judea with the Edict of Cyrus in 538. The Murashu tablets are dated to this period after Jews were allowed to return to Judea. The fact that the banking house "Murashu & Sons" conducted business with Jews who decided to remain in Nippur rather than return to Judea suggests that life in Persian-controlled Nippur was at least somewhat tolerable for Jews.[20]
This decorative frieze of polychrome glazed brick shows an army, the men carrying spears, bows and quivers. Are they the royal guards of Darius I (522–486 BC), whom Herodotus called “the Immortals,” or might they represent an idealized image of the Persian people?
This decorative frieze was certainly inspired by the Processional Way in Babylon, constructed by Nebuchadnezar II (604–562 BC)
quote: During the Siege of Jerusalem, Nebuchadnezar captured King Jehoiachin along with prominent citizens and craftsman and appointed Zedekiah as King of Judah in his place, the latter rebelled and attempted to organize opposition among the small states in the region but his capital, Jerusalem, was taken in 587 BC (the events are described in the Bible's Books of Kings and Book of Jeremiah).[6]
Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor: What is your opinion on this following?
I don't do sprawling walls of text, Ish. Opinion on what in particular? Anything not already covered these past 16 years by searching tukuler topic site:egyptsearch.com or searching al~takruri topic site:egyptsearch.com
posted
None of The ancient civilizations of West Asia(Middle East) Were Black, White or even Contemporary Asiatic. The Sumerians, Elamites, Canaanites, Assyrians, Babylonians Were all a Mixture of Dravidian and African and later Asiatic but the initial Racial makeup was Mixed Dravidian/African. if you want a living example of what most of Ancient West Asia looked like then look to The Mehri People of Yemen today who are a Mixture of African and Dravidian.
quote:Originally posted by SMirk92: None of The ancient civilizations of West Asia(Middle East) Were Black, White or even Contemporary Asiatic. The Sumerians, Elamites, Canaanites, Assyrians, Babylonians Were all a Mixture of Dravidian and African and later Asiatic but the initial Racial makeup was Mixed Dravidian/African. if you want a living example of what most of Ancient West Asia looked like then look to The Mehri People of Yemen today who are a Mixture of African and Dravidian.
^ to make the images show, go back to the images and right click
don't pick "copy image"
pick "copy image address"
and make sure the images aren't too wide. Images over about 950 will cause a side slider to see the whole thread,we don't want that
depending on what browser you are using sometimes if you move the pointer over the photos that dimensions show in a little box on the left of the photo or just test it in the preview
or just preview the image
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Archeopteryx: Curly hair is not exclusive for Africans, it can be found among Europeans and Middle Easterners too
If you travel in Europe you can see it with your own eyes.
Also even straight haired people can curl their hair, so a curly head on an old work of art do not indicate that the depicted person is African.
I don't know the amount of mental gymnastics you had to pull off in order to write what you just did, but as the artwork(s) show, the curl pattern is much tighter, i.e it's African textured hair. Even Stevie Wonder can see that. Try again.
Posts: 117 | From: Earth | Registered: Feb 2014
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quote:Originally posted by Archeopteryx: Curly hair is not exclusive for Africans, it can be found among Europeans and Middle Easterners too
If you travel in Europe you can see it with your own eyes.
Also even straight haired people can curl their hair, so a curly head on an old work of art do not indicate that the depicted person is African.
I don't know the amount of mental gymnastics you had to pull off in order to write what you just did, but as the artwork(s) show, the curl pattern is much tighter, i.e it's African textured hair. Even Stevie Wonder can see that. Try again.
Plus Europeans do not speak an Afran (Afroasiatic) language.
In Europe you will find individuals with somewhat curly hair, but not entire populations.
And it's funny, because that picture is associated with this thread:
"What hair products can be used to manage wavy and curly hair for men?"
posted
The pic in question was just an illustration that curly hair is not exclusive for Africans.
And most of all it is hard to determine on old artwork how loose or tightly peoples curls were. Many pictures are somewhat stylized, so one can not always determine peoples race only by pictures. Many seem to take old artwork very literally. But if one does that one must also accept people with horns, blue people and many other oddities. Best way to know what hair they had is to find intact bodies with hair preserved. Next best way is to find DNA where we also can determine "race" and perhaps hair texture. Art is not the best way, it leaves room for many interpretations. You must be very well versed in the artistic codes and symbolism in a specific culture to be able to interpret its art correctly.
It is just wishful thinking to interpret every person in ancient art as an African. Fantasy and wishful thinking. Some black Americans so very much want to be some other people so they forget their own west African roots. It is a pity for those roots are more interesting than all dreams about black Israelites, black Olmecs and other products of imagination.
-------------------- Once an archaeologist, always an archaeologist Posts: 2684 | From: Sweden | Registered: Mar 2020
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quote:Originally posted by Archeopteryx: The pic in question was just an illustration that curly hair is not exclusive for Africans.
And most of all it is hard to determine on old artwork how loose or tightly peoples curls were. Many pictures are somewhat stylized, so one can not always determine peoples race only by pictures. Many seem to take old artwork very literally. But if one does that one must also accept people with horns, blue people and many other oddities. Best way to know what hair they had is to find intact bodies with hair preserved. Next best way is to find DNA where we also can determine "race" and perhaps hair texture. Art is not the best way, it leaves room for many interpretations. You must be very well versed in the artistic codes and symbolism in a specific culture to be able to interpret its art correctly.
It is just wishful thinking to interpret every person in ancient art as an African. Fantasy and wishful thinking. Some black Americans so very much want to be some other people so they forget their own west African roots. It is a pity for those roots are more interesting than all dreams about black Israelites, black Olmecs and other products of imagination.
Case in point is, there is more traced than "just" curly hair. All this has been discussed over the years.
In fact that was the last piece of the puzzle to who those people were. These pieces of th puzzle from multiple disciplines happen to lead to Africa.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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posted
About hair, as I said, to determine exactly how the ancient Israels looked like using art is not always the best way. Actual remains are better. So we need to test more remains before we can be sure of anything.
Concerning hair there are very few samples of ancient preserved hair from Israel, but there are at least a sample of about 2000 years old male hair. It is not mentioned as typical African, and it is not even black. The idea of the ancient Israelites as all black and curly headed seems not to be corroborated by science.
But the main question remains: Why do some Black Americans want to borrow other peoples heritage just to enhance themselves? Be proud instead of your true West African heritage, and let other peoples be proud over their heritage.
-------------------- Once an archaeologist, always an archaeologist Posts: 2684 | From: Sweden | Registered: Mar 2020
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posted
Middle Eastern men can many times be rather curly haired which everyone who has actually been there might have seen.
DNA studies have also showed that Jews and other Middle Easterners have some common traits genetically. Considering the geographical location of Israel one ought not to be very surprised.
If one shall return to the ancient art works so, even if one must be careful in interpreting them, many of the men in the old representations rather reminds of this man than of stereotypical African people.
-------------------- Once an archaeologist, always an archaeologist Posts: 2684 | From: Sweden | Registered: Mar 2020
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
Noted racists Nott & Gliddon also didn't want to accept Lachish depictions for what they delineate.
Oh, we're pretty sure of the Lachish art. Art becomes doubtful only where blx r nvolved. Yet somehow all other art reflects correctly. Scattered modern ndividuals here and there mean nothing. All Judaean men of Lachish have wooly hair. There is no modern Israeli city of all woolly haired men.
Anyway roundup of current Jewish DNA includes a ~4% indistinguishable Afr ancestry going back to Babylonian captivity times. The sources are posted above on this page
The earliest `Am Yisra'el spoke an African language and became a people on the African tectonic plate and, of course were not NW Euros nor continental Afrs. Judea skin colour was within African brown complexions as noted by contemporaneous classical authors. We have a Palestinian and old French Jewish self-descriptions as black & beautiful and plum black . One authoritative self-description say neither Germanic yte nor Sudanic blk, but in between.
`Am Yisra'el hair texture and skin colour is what it is.
Blk Amers got nothing to do with it.
Ancient Israel was a Levantine ppl varying in looks from SyroLebanese to SudanoEgyptian naturally. HellenoRoman Judea got some of its looks from N Med converts. These ppl have married and mated with every ppl they came in contact with.
Patai, Raphael & Jennifer The myth of the Jewish race Scribner: New York, 1975
Wait lemme save this pg b4 this whole thread gets axed too.
Posts: 8179 | From: the Tekrur straddling Senegal & Mauritania | Registered: Dec 2011
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
quote:Originally posted by Archeopteryx: Some black Americans so very much want to be some other people so they forget their own west African roots. It is a pity for those roots are more interesting than all dreams about black Israelites, black Olmecs and other products of imagination.
Oh, we're pretty sure of the Lachish art. Art becomes doubtful only where blx r nvolved. Yet somehow all other art reflects correctly. Scattered modern ndividuals here and there mean nothing. All Judaean men of Lachish have wooly hair. There is no modern Israeli city of all woolly haired men.
1) ^^ woolly haired or curly?
.
.
________________________________________2) Is the Assyrian on the right, woolly haired or curly? ^^^
_______________________________________3) Does "woolly hair" Indicate African phenotype?
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote: Wishful European thinking has produced a plethora of biblical idylls wherein Levantine people are depicted as Euros. That's how much some yte Euros want to forget their roots and be some other ppl --or shall we forget these yte Israelite dreams.
Yes both whites and blacks have loved to immerse themselves in fantasies and dreams, inspired by biblical stories.
But one can still wonder why the descendants of West African slaves want to mimic the fantasies of their former oppressors instead of researching their own West African historical roots.
-------------------- Once an archaeologist, always an archaeologist Posts: 2684 | From: Sweden | Registered: Mar 2020
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posted
People with this kind of look still exist in the Middle East. One does not have to go to Africa to find curly hair
All the Blacks that supposedly lived in ancient Israel seems to fail to show up when it concerns actual physical remains. Also as mentioned the sample of ancient Jewish hair that exist is not even black and seems not indicate any Black African.
Actual physical remains trumps artistic representations (which often are stylized and follow different artistic and cultural codes) but even the images can not be proven to show African black people.
-------------------- Once an archaeologist, always an archaeologist Posts: 2684 | From: Sweden | Registered: Mar 2020
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quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: Noted racists Nott & Gliddon also didn't want to accept Lachish depictions for what they delineate.
Oh, we're pretty sure of the Lachish art. Art becomes doubtful only where blx r nvolved. Yet somehow all other art reflects correctly. Scattered modern ndividuals here and there mean nothing. All Judaean men of Lachish have wooly hair. There is no modern Israeli city of all woolly haired men.
Anyway roundup of current Jewish DNA includes a ~4% indistinguishable Afr ancestry going back to Babylonian captivity times. The sources are posted above on this page
The earliest `Am Yisra'el spoke an African language and became a people on the African tectonic plate and, of course were not NW Euros nor continental Afrs. Judea skin colour was within African brown complexions as noted by contemporaneous classical authors. We have a Palestinian and old French Jewish self-descriptions as black & beautiful and plum black . One authoritative self-description say neither Germanic yte nor Sudanic blk, but in between.
`Am Yisra'el hair texture and skin colour is what it is.
Blk Amers got nothing to do with it.
Ancient Israel was a Levantine ppl varying in looks from SyroLebanese to SudanoEgyptian naturally. HellenoRoman Judea got some of its looks from N Med converts. These ppl have married and mated with every ppl they came in contact with.
Patai, Raphael & Jennifer The myth of the Jewish race Scribner: New York, 1975
Wait lemme save this pg b4 this whole thread gets axed too.
A very good thesis.. that matches the above.. Israel beginnings are with Egyptian mercenaries...VERY INTERESTING but when you watch listen to what he DOES NOT say or what he hesitates to say about "who" where hired Egyptian soldiers..
The Oriental Institute David Ilan | How Ancient Israel Began: A New Archaeological Perspective
-------------------- It's not my burden to disabuse the ignorant of their wrong opinions Posts: 2699 | From: New York | Registered: Jun 2015
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quote: Wishful European thinking has produced a plethora of biblical idylls wherein Levantine people are depicted as Euros. That's how much some yte Euros want to forget their roots and be some other ppl --or shall we forget these yte Israelite dreams.
Yes both whites and blacks have loved to immerse themselves in fantasies and dreams, inspired by biblical stories.
But one can still wonder why the descendants of West African slaves want to mimic the fantasies of their former oppressors instead of researching their own West African historical roots.
LOL The Abrahamic religions come for proto-Afran cultures. These cultures first arose in Africa,
quote:Our statistical tests of alternative Semitic histories support an initial divergence of Akkadian from ancestral Semitic over competing hypotheses (e.g. an African origin of Semitic). We estimate an Early Bronze Age origin for Semitic approximately 5750 years ago in the Levant, and further propose that contemporary Ethiosemitic languages of Africa reflect a single introduction of early Ethiosemitic from southern Arabia approximately 2800 years ago. […]
Semitic languages (Akkadian, Aramaic, Ge'ez, ancient Hebrew and Ugaritic) combined with archaeological evidence for the sampling dates of the epigraphic data (the time at which the materials were inscribed).
"These results indicate that the ancestor of all Semitic languages in our dataset was being spoken in the Near East no earlier than approximately 7400 YBP, after having after having diverged from Afroasiatic in Africa"
(i) Semitic had an Early Bronze Age origin (approx. 5750 YBP) in the Levant, followed by an expansion of Akkadian into Mesopotamia;
(ii) Central and South Semitic diverged earlier than previously thought throughout the Levant during the Early to Middle Bronze Age transition; and
(iii) Ethiosemitic arose as the result of a single, possibly pre-Aksumite, introduction of a lineage from southern Arabia to the Horn of Africa approximately 2800 YBP.
~Andrew Kitchen, Christopher Ehret2, Shiferaw Assefa2 and Connie J. Mulligan
Bayesian phylogenetic analysis of Semitic languages identifies an Early Bronze Age origin of Semitic in the Near East Proc. R. Soc. B (2009) 276, 2703–2710 doi:10.1098/rspb.2009.0408
See, Ursemitische Religion by Werner Daum.
See, Julian Baldick, Black God: The Afroasiatic Roots of the Jewish, Christian, and Muslim Religions.
A comparative study of the Afroasiatic traditional religions of northern Africa and Arabia. The author argues that there is a common Afroasiatic language in those regions, so is there a common family of religions. He compares traditions as diverse as those in Yemen and Nigeria.
Internationally known scholar of Islam Dr. Wesley Muhammad brings together in this his latest work a tremendous amount of scholarship and demonstrates that: Ancient Black Arabia, which is the matrix of Islam, is a root of civilization and an integral component of the Global African Civilization paradigm. Islam the veneration of Allah as the supreme God predated the Arabian prophet Muhammad by millennia The oldest records of this ancient veneration of Allah indicates that Blacks or Africans in Arabia were the originators of this veneration And much more Remarks about Black Arabia from Africentric Scholar Wayne B. Chandler, author of Ancient Future: The Teachings and Prophetic Wisdom of the Seven Hermitic Laws of Ancient Egypt (1999) about new book: I began going through it and I must say I was really impressed with your work and historical insights. More times than not, much of what has come on the heels of the work we did with [Ivan] Van Sertima has been no more than a regurgitation of our ideas, directions, and story lines.
There was enslaved West Africans and their descendants. These oppressors started to oppress because of the disbelieve that these African people already were in the religion these Europeans deemed as European in origin.
That historical claim is obviously a BIG LIE.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Archeopteryx: People with this kind of look still exist in the Middle East. One does not have to go to Africa to find curly hair
... ... …
All the Blacks that supposedly lived in ancient Israel seems to fail to show up when it concerns actual physical remains. Also as mentioned the sample of ancient Jewish hair that exist is not even black and seems not indicate any Black African.
Actual physical remains trumps artistic representations (which often are stylized and follow different artistic and cultural codes) but even the images can not be proven to show African black people.
Ok? And how was "Black African" hair portrayed during ancient times?
And something is off with the pictures you keep posting. For some reason they don't fit the "profile". You have populations twisted and flipped, because you come from a prejudice, traditionally racist European point of view.
Head of a Syrian KhM 3896a TILE; RAMESSES III/USERMAATRE-MERIAMUN
quote:Originally posted by Archeopteryx: Middle Eastern men can many times be rather curly haired which everyone who has actually been there might have seen.
DNA studies have also showed that Jews and other Middle Easterners have some common traits genetically. Considering the geographical location of Israel one ought not to be very surprised.
If one shall return to the ancient art works so, even if one must be careful in interpreting them, many of the men in the old representations rather reminds of this man than of stereotypical African people.
…
This is the same guy, and the question is, why you keep lying?
quote:Originally posted by Archeopteryx: Middle Eastern men can many times be rather curly haired which everyone who has actually been there might have seen.
You are getting desperate. You love to show the world one type. But not these:
quote:Originally posted by Archeopteryx: DNA studies have also showed that Jews and other Middle Easterners have some common traits genetically. Considering the geographical location of Israel one ought not to be very surprised.
That is actually not the case.
They show mainly European with middle Eastern and East African admixture. This is historically accurate.
quote:Originally posted by Archeopteryx: If one shall return to the ancient art works so, even if one must be careful in interpreting them, many of the men in the old representations rather reminds of this man than of stereotypical African people.
You are getting desperate with your photos. You have some explaining to do.
Who is who? Chaldeans and Hebrews.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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Newly deciphered Egyptian symbols on a 3,400-year-old limestone ostracon from Luxor’s Tomb of Senneferi appears to be the first written evidence of the ABC letter order of the early Semitic alphabet, according to a University of British Columbia Egyptologist.
In his article, “A Double Abecedary? Halaham and ‘Abgad on the TT99 Ostracon,” Prof. Thomas Schneider concludes that a small (approximately 10 x 10 centimeters, or about 4 x 4 inches) double-sided limestone flake was used by Egyptian scribes as a mnemonic device to remember the letter orders of not one, but two forms of early Semitic alphabets.
On one side of the flake is Schneider’s recent discovery: the transliteration into cursive Egyptian writing of the sounds that signify the beginnings of today’s Hebrew alphabet (Aleph, Bet, Gimel). On the other, a contemporary, though now lesser-known letter order, called “Halaḥam,” which was deciphered in 2015, on the same limestone flake, by Leiden University’s Dr. Ben Haring.
posted
If people make their own topics, their posting will me unrestricted but if it's in another person's topic will be limited to how many big posts in a row
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: If people make their own topics, their posting will me unrestricted but if it's in another person's topic will be limited to how many big posts in a row
Archeopteryx is a bit unaware of basic history, so it needs to be deciphered into multiple parts for him/ her.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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But one can still wonder why the descendants of West African slaves want to mimic the fantasies of their former oppressors instead of researching their own West African historical roots.
this is inflammatory, people don't like to be identified as descendants slaves I and also irrelevant) and told how to think. Just make the arguments but leave that part out
palace of Darius the Great at Persepolis. The figure is a guardian angel called a “lamassu,” Persian Empire (522–486 BC)
Frieze of archers, royal guards of Darius I, Persian Empire (522–486 BC)
One could argue the ethnicity of these
if they are a "black" or African type person or not as per American/European definitions
but it would be reasonable to call them black skinned and you can certainly see some brown skin of some Israeli Bedouins and Palestinians
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Archeopteryx: About hair, as I said, to determine exactly how the ancient Israels looked like using art is not always the best way. Actual remains are better. So we need to test more remains before we can be sure of anything.
Concerning hair there are very few samples of ancient preserved hair from Israel, but there are at least a sample of about 2000 years old male hair. It is not mentioned as typical African, and it is not even black. The idea of the ancient Israelites as all black and curly headed seems not to be corroborated by science.
But the main question remains: Why do some Black Americans want to borrow other peoples heritage just to enhance themselves? Be proud instead of your true West African heritage, and let other peoples be proud over their heritage.
People of West African descent can talk about what they want. Just like how you feel that you can put your nose in anything.
First your rant was about how curly hair is found everywhere on the planet, only to post a source with non-curly hair? With an image that is hard to see what we are actually looking at? Not that it matters, but I can flip it and tell you that this type of hair texture is found in sub Sahara Africa as well, including West Africa.
However, a better question is. How did (they) you determine that these are remains of ancient Hebrews, when not only Hebrews lived there during those days?
quote:"Conversion to Judaism was common in Rome in the first centuries BC and AD. Judaism gained many followers among all ranks of Roman Society [10-13]."
~Avshalom Zoossmann-Diskin1,2,3 et al. 1 Department of Haematology and Genetic Pathology, School of Medicine, Flinders University, Adelaide, Australia 2 Department of Human Genetics, Sackler Faculty of Medicine, Tel-Aviv University, Israel 3 Current Address: Blood Bank, Sheba Medical Center, Ramat-Gan 52621, Israel
quote:Many assure us that the Jews are descended from those Ethiopians who were driven by fear and hatred to emigrate from their home country when Cepheus was king. There are some who say that a motley collection of landless Assyrians occupied a part of Egypt, and then built cities of their own, inhabiting the lands of the Hebrews and the nearer parts of Syria. Others again find a famous ancestry for the Jews in the Solymi who are mentioned with respect in the epics of Homer: this tribe is supposed to have founded Jerusalem (4) and named it after themselves.
(Cornelius Tacitus (AD 55 - 117), The Histories by Cornelius Tacitus.)
From the actual paper:
quote:The haplotypes for the Tomb of the Shroud individuals are commonly distributed throughout the North of Africa and the Middle East through to Eastern Europe.
[…]
A recent hypothesis [45] suggests that leprosy may have first appeared in the region not with Alexander but sometime earlier (circa 400 B.C.E or later), with diseased young slaves conveyed from India to Egypt on cargo ships. More recently a review of the origins and spread of leprosy has identified an East African origin with various routes of migration out of Africa into the Middle East and beyond [46].
There seems to be an unwritten axiom, those who seek never find, and those who find were not seeking. I have participated in over 20 seasons of excavation at five different sites over the past 25 years and I can’t count the times when suddenly, “out of the blue,” one of our students, volunteers, or a staff member suddenly finds something significant–and totally unexpected! Such was the case with the 15 line ostracon at Qumran in 1996, the engraved 1st-century menorah we found at Sepphoris in 1999 or the mysteriously inscribed stone vessel at Mt Zion in 2009.
quote:“Ziv said that many Jewish-Ethiopian customs go against modern Jewish practice, but perfectly align with customs and rituals described on scrolls found in the Qumran caves and in books dating back to the Second Temple Period. The Qumran Caves are where the Dead Sea Scrolls were found, which include the third oldest Hebrew Bible ever found.”
quote:“The Book of Enoch was known since the eighteenth century when travelers became familiar with it. The book was preserved in Ethiopic (Ge'ez) and the research on the Enochic texts was mostly based on the Ethiopic version of the text until the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls. Texts that relate to Enoch are vast within the Qumran collection.”
quote: Dr Pawel Wolf gave the MBI Al Jaber Public Lecture at the British Museum this year as part of the annual Seminar for Arabia Studies. The lecture was entitled 'Colonisation or Culture Transfer? The Almaqah temple of Wuqro (Tigray) sheds new light on Ethio-Sabaean culture contacts in the Northern Horn of Africa' and gave an insight into the fascinating work of the German Archaeological Institute (DAI) over the past few seasons.
Addi Akaweh, 2000 m above sea level, is in a region of Tigray which has not yet been explored for archaeological material. In the north of the Abyssinian highlands, the region is about 50 km north of the provincial capital of Mekelle, and seems to have been of importance due to its proximity to the ancient trade routes southeast of the main ancient centres of Axum and Yeha.
The temple of the Sabaean God Almaqah is one of the main archaeological discoveries of the area, though there are signs of an ancient settlement nearby and some building believed to have a sacred use at nearby Ziban Adi. They belong to a settlement area of the 1st millennium BC, a period of crucial social development in the Abyssinian highlands.
Since the Neolithic period, the Abyssinian highlands were part of a far-flung network of exchange relationships between North Africa and the Arabian Peninsula, and both African and South Arabian cultural components can be seen in its development. South Arabian inscriptions, temples and sculptures from the early 1st millennium BC, have been found at Yeha and Hawlti.
Various models of social development have been applied to explain the strong South Arabian presence such as colonization or economic and cultural relations. More research and work needs to be carried out before the contacts can be properly understood.
The primary objective of the work of the DAI in Addi Akaweh is to comprehensively record and explore the archaeological material to shed light on the local cultural transformation in the context of regional contacts. Intercultural contacts and external relations with neighbouring cultural areas such as South Arabia, the Nile Valley and the south are still unexplored, and need to be investigated cross-regionally.
The Almaqah temple offers the ideal opportunity for the study of specific religious cultural components. The reconstruction of spatial concepts, ritual procedures and votive practices sheds light on the sacral-political space of the regional elite. The temple was built in the 8th to 6th centuries BC on the ruins of an earlier building and continued in use with several modifications to probably the 3rd century BC. It resembles the early South Arabian religious buildings in form and is built from local stone. Some of its most important features are a betyl made from naturally rounded boulders and perfectly preserved and libation altar donated by a hitherto unknown king named W'RN. His dedicatory inscription proves the ancient name of Yeha for the first time and demonstrates its importance as a national religious and political centre. It also shows that elements of royal elite cultural and ideological traditions of South Arabia and the African region are used together. C14 dating confirmed the Ethiopian Sabaean inscriptions to date to the 7th century BC.
(Carolyn Perry, July 26, 2012, The Sabaean Temple of Almaqah in Addi Akaweh (Tigray), Ethiopia)
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