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Author Topic: Earliest picture of an Israelite
Tukuler
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I hate it when certain folk play dumb like they don't know my stance on peninsular/gulf wavy hair curled at the ends by artifice.
Whadaya think? U cn make me deny myself?
Ain't no use to deny I harped on this overhead img of 'Roxanne' for years and years and

quote:
Originally posted July 01, 2014 by alTakruri:
quote:
Originally posted by alTakruri:

I have nothing at stake in the "Persian Afro." I
couldn't give a damn if their hair was nappier than
a racoon's [rear] or straighter than a sow's [sugarwalls].

Like I said I used to think they had natural naps
but after the experience of viewing busts
from the perspective of directly above the crowned head
I now stand by the ends of the hair being curled by artifice.

.
Wow, looks like the original page 1 got axed.

Anyway, here's the pic I couldn't post back
then to support my above quoted statement.


 -

.

quote:
Originally posted December 22, 2009 by alTakruri:

A careful look at the image below reveals that the
bushy hair is so by artifice since immediately below
the crown one can see the the natural wavy nature
of the hair. This is true of nearly all the Persian art
(Elamites excluded for one). One need examine many
art pieces to notice these characteristics of their hair.


 -


At one time I subscribed t the belief that nappy hair
was depicted. Then I saw many and larger art pieces
where I noticed the hair is wavy at the root and is
only bushy at the ends. This led me to believe the
bushiness was due to the knack of hairdressers.

The Persian 'du is elaborate in design. Their natural
hair was loosely wavy, as you can see at the edge of
the king's crown, then the ends were tightly curled. All
in all it produces the effect of wooly hair like the curly
Afro some Ladinos, Iranians, and Arabs used to wear
back in the 1970's. You know, the "Jewfro"  -

Back in the 70's many wavy haired folk sported Afros.
It wasn't because they were black or had nappy hair.
It was because they admired the long nappy hair many
blacks were wearing then.



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I'm just another point of view. What's yours? Unpublished work © 2004 - 2023 YYT al~Takruri
Authentic Africana over race-serving ethnocentricisms, Afro, Euro, or whatever.

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the lioness,
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 -

Crown is stretching hair as well as weight of curls on bottom pulling hair

If this person were to cut their hair short

it would look like this >>

 -
Elamites

 -
Elamite, 1500 BC
" This particular sculpture has admirably preserved the memory of an Elamite dignitary, whose beard and a hair style is in keeping with the local fashion."
https://www.louvre.fr/en/oeuvre-notices/funerary-portrait-man-deposited-vaulted-tomb


 -
Assyrian, Head of a beardless royal attendant, possibly a eunuch, ca. 721–705 B.C.


^^what we have here is the mass of curls weighting down the hair are stretching it out
so it's wavy strait
If you were to cut this persons hair short it would be curly




 -
Elamite, notice curl in beard especially visible near eye
see info box under periode


 -
Elamite man with lion cub,
bas-relief from Persepolis

 -
Head from statue of Herakles (Hercules) Roman 117-188 CE from villa of the emperor Hadrian at Tivoli, Italy. Portland Art Museum

 -
Jewish nosed man, Nineveh, Palace of Senacherib, Lachish Room: Surrender
Date
ca. 700 BCE

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the lioness,
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Head, Babylonian
ca. late 8th–early 7th century B.C.
Metropolitan Musuem

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Yatunde Lisa Bey
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quote:
Originally posted by Yatunde Lisa:
quote:
Originally posted by Tukuler:
Noted racists Nott & Gliddon also didn't want to accept Lachish depictions for what they delineate.

Oh, we're pretty sure of the Lachish art.
Art becomes doubtful only where blx r nvolved.
Yet somehow all other art reflects correctly.
Scattered modern ndividuals here and there mean nothing.
All Judaean men of Lachish have wooly hair.
There is no modern Israeli city of all woolly haired men.

Anyway roundup of current Jewish DNA includes a ~4% indistinguishable Afr ancestry going back to Babylonian captivity times.
The sources are posted above on this page

The earliest `Am Yisra'el spoke an African language and became a people on the African tectonic plate and, of course were not NW Euros nor continental Afrs.
Judea skin colour was within African brown complexions as noted by contemporaneous classical authors.
We have a Palestinian and old French Jewish self-descriptions as black & beautiful and plum black .
One authoritative self-description say neither Germanic yte nor Sudanic blk, but in between.

`Am Yisra'el hair texture and skin colour is what it is.

Blk Amers got nothing to do with it.

Ancient Israel was a Levantine ppl varying in looks from SyroLebanese to SudanoEgyptian naturally.
HellenoRoman Judea got some of its looks from N Med converts.
These ppl have married and mated with every ppl they came in contact with.

 -

Patai, Raphael & Jennifer
The myth of the Jewish race
Scribner: New York, 1975

Wait lemme save this pg b4 this whole thread gets axed too.

A very good thesis.. that matches the above.. Israel beginnings are with Egyptian mercenaries...VERY INTERESTING but when you watch listen to what he DOES NOT say or what he hesitates to say about "who" where hired Egyptian soldiers..

The Oriental Institute
David Ilan | How Ancient Israel Began: A New Archaeological Perspective

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSXmf0fnhMU

 -

--------------------
It's not my burden to disabuse the ignorant of their wrong opinions

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Ish Geber
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
... Head from statue of Herakles (Hercules) Roman 117-188 CE from villa of the emperor Hadrian at Tivoli, Italy. Portland Art Museum
...

It's time for you to start all over again, reading basic history. Especially when it comes to the ancient Greeks and Ethiopians.

quote:
Herodotus51 tells us that he made inquiries respecting Heracles: the Egyptian he found to be decidedly older than the Greek one; but the Egyptians referred him to Phoenicia as the original source of the traditions. The Egyptian Heracles, who is mentioned by many other writers besides Herodotus and Diodorus, is said to have been called by his Egyptian name Som or Dsom, or, according to others, Chon,52 and, according to Pausanias,53 Maceris. According to Diodorus,54 Som was a son of Amon (Zeus); but Cicero calls him a son of Nilus, while, according to Ptolemaeus Hephaestion, Heracles himself was originally called Nilus. This Egyptian Heracles was placed by the Egyptians in the second of the series of the evolutions of their gods.55
https://pantheon.org/articles/h/heracles.html


Shades Of Memnon, by author Greg Walker.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlboeRirEd8

Here I discuss the Legend of Memnon! The Ethiopian King of the Trojan War! I also discuss the Olympian obsession with Ethiopians!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9WCVQVYsDM

Here I discuss the Africans present in Greek Mythology and their Legacy. Africans seemed to have a tremendous impact on the minds of Greek writers and historians.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4y7sdJjYXs

Top 10 Africans in Greek Mythology

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eIwO9r1Vgo

Ethiopian Emperors Family Tree (Solomonic Dynasty

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFMcrsRzMA0

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Ish Geber
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Ironically the alleged "Hebrew exodus" from Egypt was when Egypt was under Greco-Roman control. As the story is told.

quote:
Egyptian Tomb in Israel

The discovery of an Egyptian-style tomb at Tel Halif in the Negev Desert suggests an Egyptian colonial presence in southern Israel ca. 3000 B.C. Most burials in the region are in caves or shaft tombs attributed to the Canaanites, but this one, built during the Early Bronze 1B period (3300-3000 B.C.), is typical of contemporary tombs in Egypt, according to excavators Thomas Levy of the University of California, San Diego, and David Alon of the Joe Alon Regional Research Center in Israel. A 30-foot-long passageway descends to the burial chamber, which is about 26 feet long, 16 feet wide, and nine and one-half feet high. Within the dome-shaped chamber is a plastered stone platform on which the skeleton of a woman was found. About 25 years old when she died, she was found in a fetal position facing east, characteristic of Egyptian burials.

That an Egyptian was buried at Tel Halif "gives us evidence of a full-blown Egyptian colony in Israel right after the crystallization of the first Egyptian state," says Levy. "Egyptians were known to have very profound and elaborate belief systems about the afterlife and what was required to get there. One of these requirements was to die and be properly entombed on Egyptian soil. I think it's very likely that this part of southern Israel was considered part of greater Egypt during this period."

Egyptian ceramics, seal impressions, and bread molds found at Tel Halif support an Egyptian occupation. Among these artifacts is a potsherd engraved with the serekh, or sign, of King Narmer, who is believed to have united Upper and Lower Egypt between 3050 and 3000 B.C.

https://archive.archaeology.org/9701/newsbriefs/negev.html

Ancient Faces: Romano-Egyptian Mummy Portrait of a Bearded Man

Place: Egypt (Place created)
Date: about 150 – 170
This image is housed at the Getty Villa. This is an educational center and museum dedicated to the study of the arts and cultures of ancient Greece, Rome, and Etruria. The collection has 44,000 Greek, Roman, and Etruscan antiquities dating from 6,500 BC to 400 AD.


 -


 -


 -

 -

 -

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Tukuler
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 -
This Persian example has long natural low wavy hair.

This 'Elamite' example has naturally woolly hair.
Upper hair appears wavy from filet pull pressure.
Lower hair unconstrained by filet is curly 'fro hair.
I've seen this hair type in a Belarus native.
It was stiffer than similar hair on a German.
 -

Note the detail difference.

Another example of naturally wavy hair curled at the ends by artifice, same as the 1st image except: "See ma, no crown!"
 -

Thass all folks! Done this too many times. Enough Groundhog Day repetition. Send me a memo when some value add gets posted. Carry on w/t cockamamie spin.

Addenda
Three types of West Eurasian naturally curly hair.
 -
EDIT: img rescinded goto source
https://www.thetrendspotter.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/How-To-Get-Curly-Hair-For-Men-1.jpg

Example of wavy hair tending to large loose curls reminiscent of Mesopotamian/Gulf so-called 'afrohair'.
 -

--------------------
I'm just another point of view. What's yours? Unpublished work © 2004 - 2023 YYT al~Takruri
Authentic Africana over race-serving ethnocentricisms, Afro, Euro, or whatever.

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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
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quote:
Originally posted by Yatunde Lisa:

A very good thesis.. that matches the above.. Israel beginnings are with Egyptian mercenaries...VERY INTERESTING but when you watch listen to what he DOES NOT say or what he hesitates to say about "who" where hired Egyptian soldiers..

The Oriental Institute
David Ilan | How Ancient Israel Began: A New Archaeological Perspective

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSXmf0fnhMU

.

Mm hmm yeah that's them dialectics saying so much more than any supraliminal text.

--------------------
I'm just another point of view. What's yours? Unpublished work © 2004 - 2023 YYT al~Takruri
Authentic Africana over race-serving ethnocentricisms, Afro, Euro, or whatever.

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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by Tukuler:

This 'Elamite' example has naturally woolly hair.
Upper hair appears wavy from filet pull pressure.
Lower hair unconstrained by filet is curly 'fro hair.
I've seen this hair type in a Belarus native.
It was stiffer than similar hair on a German.
 -

"Woolly hair" is often associated with an African phenotype overall but the above suggests not necessarily
.


.

 -
Head from statue of Herakles (Hercules) Roman 117-188 CE from villa of the emperor Hadrian at Tivoli, Italy. Portland Art Museum

 -
Nineveh, Palace of Senacherib, Lachish Room: Surrender
Date
ca. 700 BCE


In looking at this Lachish relief it is not clear what the hair type is

It could be like the Roman sculpture before it or not
The circular pattern, how it is arranged on the head doesn't seem realistic

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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by Tukuler:


Mm hmm yeah that's them dialectics saying so any much more than supraliminal text.

I don't know what this means
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Tukuler
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^ Sour grapes Lachish commentary but everybody's entitled to their opinion no matter how ...

LACHISH MAN
 -

quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:


 -
Jewish nosed man, Nineveh, Palace of Senacherib, Lachish Room: Surrender
Date
ca. 700 BCE

.
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:

 -
Nineveh, Palace of Senacherib, Lachish Room: Surrender
Date
ca. 700 BCE


In looking at this Lachish relief it is not clear what the hair type is

The circular pattern, how it is arranged on the head doesn't seem realistic



--------------------
I'm just another point of view. What's yours? Unpublished work © 2004 - 2023 YYT al~Takruri
Authentic Africana over race-serving ethnocentricisms, Afro, Euro, or whatever.

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Tukuler
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Whoops

--------------------
I'm just another point of view. What's yours? Unpublished work © 2004 - 2023 YYT al~Takruri
Authentic Africana over race-serving ethnocentricisms, Afro, Euro, or whatever.

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Ish Geber
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by Tukuler:

This 'Elamite' example has naturally woolly hair.
Upper hair appears wavy from filet pull pressure.
Lower hair unconstrained by filet is curly 'fro hair.
I've seen this hair type in a Belarus native.
It was stiffer than similar hair on a German.
 -

"Woolly hair" is often associated with an African phenotype overall but the above suggests not necessarily


[Roll Eyes]

quote:
Our statistical tests of alternative Semitic histories support an initial divergence of Akkadian from ancestral Semitic over competing hypotheses (e.g. an African origin of Semitic). We estimate an Early Bronze Age origin for Semitic approximately 5750 years ago in the Levant, and further propose that contemporary Ethiosemitic languages of Africa reflect a single introduction of early Ethiosemitic from southern Arabia approximately 2800 years ago.
[…]

Semitic languages (Akkadian, Aramaic, Ge'ez, ancient Hebrew and Ugaritic) combined with archaeological evidence for the sampling dates of the epigraphic data (the time at which the materials were inscribed).

 -


"These results indicate that the ancestor of all Semitic languages in our dataset was being spoken in the Near East no earlier than approximately 7400 YBP, after having after having diverged from Afroasiatic in Africa"

(i) Semitic had an Early Bronze Age origin (approx. 5750 YBP) in the Levant, followed by an expansion of Akkadian into Mesopotamia;

(ii) Central and South Semitic diverged earlier than previously thought throughout the Levant during the Early to Middle Bronze Age transition; and

(iii) Ethiosemitic arose as the result of a single, possibly pre-Aksumite, introduction of a lineage from southern Arabia to the Horn of Africa approximately 2800 YBP.

~Andrew Kitchen, Christopher Ehret2, Shiferaw Assefa2 and Connie J. Mulligan

Bayesian phylogenetic analysis of Semitic languages identifies an Early Bronze Age origin of Semitic in the Near East
Proc. R. Soc. B (2009) 276, 2703–2710
doi:10.1098/rspb.2009.0408

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Ish Geber
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:

 -
Nineveh, Palace of Senacherib, Lachish Room: Surrender
Date
ca. 700 BCE


In looking at this Lachish relief it is not clear what the hair type is

It could be like the Roman sculpture before it or not
The circular pattern, how it is arranged on the head doesn't seem realistic

[Roll Eyes]

quote:
A parsimonious explanation for these observations is that they reflect a history in which many of the Jewish groups descend from a common ancestral population which was itself admixed with Africans, prior to the beginning of the Jewish diaspora that occurred in 8th to 6th century BC [41]. The dates that emerge from our ROLLOFF analysis in the non-Mizrahi Jews could also reflect events in the Greek and Roman periods, when there were large communities of Jews in North Africa, particularly Alexandria [34], [42].
~Moorjani et al
The History of African Gene Flow into Southern Europeans, Levantines, and Jews
PLoS Genet. 2011 Apr; 7(4): e1001373

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the lioness,
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^^ Ish Gebor please add article title and the part of the text before "A parsimonious explanation for these observations"

because it's what observations? The thought is incomplete

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Ish Geber
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
^^ Ish Gebor please add article title and the part of the text before "A parsimonious explanation for these observations"

because it's what observations? The thought is incomplete

I don't see the problem.


quote:
We analyze genome-wide polymorphism data from about 40 West Eurasian groups to show that almost all Southern Europeans have inherited 1%–3% African ancestry with an average mixture date of around 55 generations ago, consistent with North African gene flow at the end of the Roman Empire and subsequent Arab migrations. Levantine groups harbor 4%–15% African ancestry with an average mixture date of about 32 generations ago, consistent with close political, economic, and cultural links with Egypt in the late middle ages. We also detect 3%–5% sub-Saharan African ancestry in all eight of the diverse Jewish populations that we analyzed. For the Jewish admixture, we obtain an average estimated date of about 72 generations. This may reflect descent of these groups from a common ancestral population that already had some African ancestry prior to the Jewish Diasporas.

Author Summary

Southern Europeans and Middle Eastern populations are known to have inherited a small percentage of their genetic material from recent sub-Saharan African migrations, but there has been no estimate of the exact proportion of this gene flow, or of its date. Here, we apply genomic methods to show that the proportion of African ancestry in many Southern European groups is 1%–3%, in Middle Eastern groups is 4%–15%, and in Jewish groups is 3%–5%. To estimate the dates when the mixture occurred, we develop a novel method that estimates the size of chromosomal segments of distinct ancestry in individuals of mixed ancestry. We verify using computer simulations that the method produces useful estimates of population mixture dates up to 300 generations in the past. By applying the method to West Eurasians, we show that the dates in Southern Europeans are consistent with events during the Roman Empire and subsequent Arab migrations. The dates in the Jewish groups are older, consistent with events in classical or biblical times that may have occurred in the shared history of Jewish populations.

~Moorjani et al.
The History of African Gene Flow into Southern Europeans, Levantines, and Jews
PLoS Genet. 2011 Apr; 7(4): e1001373
____________________________________

Enslavement of the Israelites

https://www.bl.uk/learning/cult/inside/goldhaggadahstories/enslave/enslavement.html

[ 19. March 2020, 01:10 PM: Message edited by: the lioness, ]

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the lioness,
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 -

 -


Notice the Assyrian at left's dotted portion of hair is depicted in the same way as the Israelites
I suspect if his hair was short it would all be like that.
Also his nose is somewhat similar to the middle figure and they all have beards, they look like kin, not resembling Egyptians

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Ish Geber
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
thanks, just trying to make everything clear

?


quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:


Notice the Assyrian at left's dotted portion of hair is depicted in the same way as the Israelites
I suspect if his hair was short it would all be like that.
Also his nose is somewhat similar to the middle figure and they all have beards, they look like kin, not resembling Egyptians

That's because this is Assyrian art, not Egyptian. lol smh
It's all about connecting the "dots".

 -
Panel (900–700 BC), excavated at ‘Fort Shalmaneser’, Nimrud, Iraq. Photo: © The Trustees of the British Museum

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Tukuler
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:

Notice the Assyrian at left's dotted portion of hair is depicted in the same way as the Israelites
I suspect if his hair was short it would all be like that.
Also his nose is somewhat similar to the middle figure and they all have beards, they look like kin, not resembling Egyptians

.

Obviously wavy-straight flop hair from root to 7 or 8+ inches
necessitates a short cut will be leaving wavy-straight hair.
Assyria vs Judah noses are nothing alike except they're noses.
Nostril, tip, slope, bridge of left are noticably dissimilar to center and right.

 -

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I'm just another point of view. What's yours? Unpublished work © 2004 - 2023 YYT al~Takruri
Authentic Africana over race-serving ethnocentricisms, Afro, Euro, or whatever.

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Tukuler
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Medium wavy hair cut short vs woolly hair cut short.

 -

In real life this is what you get in DR or ADOS ba ba shops. Yup.

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I'm just another point of view. What's yours? Unpublished work © 2004 - 2023 YYT al~Takruri
Authentic Africana over race-serving ethnocentricisms, Afro, Euro, or whatever.

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the lioness,
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seriously?
Lacishites were brothers with waves?

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the lioness,
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 -

Look at the beard of the Assyrian at left
That's how his hair would look if short

The wavy portion of the hair is probably combed out with oils otherwise his beard would be like that

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Tukuler
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
seriously?

Dis Deshret ain't it?
The citizens of Lachish were members of Israelite nation of Judah ~2700 years ago.
Price and later Moorjani both found Israelites of that era is where the ~4% Afr genomic ancestry comes from in modern Jewry.

Beard is a nice try distraction away from
the hair which all can see, no speculation.

 -

No escaping the natural fact of the head hair texture from the root flopping on down

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the lioness,
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 -
Elamites


__________________  -
Assyrian,The Royal Lion Hunt
c. 645-635 BC
Nineveh, North Palace.
Iraq.

Nice try see the Assyrian boy has uniform hair. The adult has that wavy stuff above the curls on his hair. That is probably combed out with some oils.
The Assyrian boy looks like a younger version of the middle Elamite above

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Tukuler
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
[  -
Neo Assyrian

Nice try see the Assyrian boy has uniform hair. The adult has that wavy stuff above the curls on his hair. That is probably combed out with some oils [

mm hmm nice try at switching goal posts.

Yeah I remember Swenet posting that img yrs ago.
Groundhog Day repetition trap theme playing in bkgrnd.
Nuthin new. Nothing added not stated from back then.
Then as now no one could put up no supporting living evidence.

But I'm sure everyone everywhere herb-greased, oiled, and perfumed their hair as appropriate to their culture.

It's a universal human thing from Paleolithic to present times

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the lioness,
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Again, the kid's hair, checkmate
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Tukuler
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Falsemate


Uh enough straying from Lachish and not postings Swenet's text to go along with his "the kid" picture.


Sennacherib's artist was careful delineating Judahite head hair from Assyrian head hair

 -  -

Judean hair/beard is tighter woolly than Assyrian looser curling hairs. The Lessing resolution shows this clearly.

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the lioness,
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1) if "woolly" means afro textured hair that cannot be determined by the above art

2) no real person has hair that is straight and then curled on the bottom which means part of the hair depicted is not in it's natural condition.
The upper beard hair of the Assyrian shows the natural condition as well as the Assyrian boy.
If you think otherwise show a photo of a person that has wavy straight hair but is curled on the bottom in this drastically different way

 -


 -

In Egyptian art being bearded is most similar to other Asiatics not Nehesy.
What modern people most resemble these Lachishites? I'm not sure

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Yatunde Lisa Bey
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
1) if "woolly" means afro textured hair that cannot be determined by the above art

2) no real person has hair that is straight and then curled on the bottom which means part of the hair depicted is not in it's natural condition.
The upper beard hair of the Assyrian shows the natural condition as well as the Assyrian boy.
If you think otherwise show a photo of a person that has wavy straight hair but is curled on the bottom in this drastically different way

 -


 -

In Egyptian art being bearded is most similar to other Asiatics not Nehesy.
What modern people most resemble these Lachishites? I'm not sure

Yoruba Men... yes.. Yoruba men.. they even wear the Jehu cap

 -

310 Muhammad Bello, in ARNETT 1922:

a) [p.13]

West of Katsina and Gobir there are seven separate countries called “Banza Bakwai”.

311 These are Zamfara and Kebbi, Yauri, Nufi [Nupe], Yoruba,

312 Borgu and Gurma.

Each of these has a Sarki [i.e. king] who is equal to the
others ,

b) [p.16] The country of Yoruba is extensive and has streams and forests and rocks and hills. There are many curious and beautiful things in it. The ships of the Christians come there.

313 The people of Yoruba are descended from the Kanaana
[= Canaanites] and the kindred of Nimrud.

314 Now the reason of their having
settled in the west according to what we are told is that Yaarubu son of Kahtan drove them out of Irak to westwards

315 and they travelled between Masar [Misr, i.e. Egypt] and Habash [= Ethiopia] until they reached Yoruba. It happened that they left a portion of their people in every country they passed. It is said that the Sudanese who live up on the hills [i.e. the Nigerian Plateau] are all their kindred; so also the people of Yauri are their kindred.
The people of Yoruba resemble those of Nufi in appearance.

316. In the land of Yoruba are found the birds green in colour which are called ‘Babaga’ in Arabic and which we call ‘Aku’. It is a bird which talks and is beautiful.

317. Now in this country of Yoruba there are many wonderful things. Mallam
Mohamman Masani has related them in his book Nafhat’ul Ambariya. He has also written further about this country in his book Azharu Ruba about Yoruba.

318. The people of Yoruba catch slaves from our land and sell them to the Christians so we are told. I mention this to stop people selling Moslem slaves to them, because of those who buy them. Harm will result from this.

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Tukuler
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Each reply is funnier and more illogical than the last.

Ha ha ha thinking art must be photographic to depict reality!

Right, the crosshatches in Assyrian art for both Lachish and Nile Kushi mean "negro's" hair must be fought.

Nevermind Nile Kushi have woolly hair, right.


So we cannot tell what hair texture any people have when looking at pre Renaisance Euro art.


What kind of ethnocentric illogic is at work just speculating away.


<< Yeah I know gotta keep iteratng post count no matter what >>


My question is does anyone else doubt real hair textures are etched in the Assyrian reliefs? If Assyrian viewers didn't recognize various texture differences of various peoples why did the artist bother sculpting all those many different textures and styles?

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Tukuler
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You must be joking.
Trying to use my own challenge against me?
 -
Ain't nobody that slick, nice try.


quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:

show a photo of a person that has wavy straight hair but is curled on the bottom in this drastically different way


I think all the real analysis is done.
This is just sour grapes chit chat.
The objective is not to convince doubters of the obvious.
A waste of time like hunting spotless leopards or chasing wild geese.

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Tukuler
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Hairstyles in hairstyles out hairstyles laughably unattractive hairstyles relegated to historical eras

Wavy hair gone to curl (again).

 -


Elaborate hairstyles of ancient north Mediteranneans: examples of wavy to straight hair styling
@ https://www.pinterest.com/magistramichaud/ancient-hair-styles/
For sure there's nobody going to walk around like this nowadays.
 -
Does it mean nobody did back in those days?
The sculptors just made them up there were no models?
Women Try Ancient Hairstyles (10 min video link)

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-Just Call Me Jari-
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I mean it would be one thing if they're were'nt native Bedouins who looked like this...

 -

 -

 -

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Nassbean
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I'm waiting for the black east asia thread too
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-Just Call Me Jari-
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I doubt the Yoruba are Canaanite, we still have dark skinned Bedouin and Yemeni etc. makes more sense Lachish reliefs were depicting a Mehri or Socotran type among Israel

quote:
Originally posted by Yatunde Lisa:
Yoruba Men... yes.. Yoruba men.. they even wear the Jehu cap




[ 22. March 2020, 02:41 PM: Message edited by: the lioness, ]

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the lioness,
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(quote removed to reduce repetition)
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Yatunde Lisa Bey
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quote:
Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-:
I doubt the Yoruba are Canaanite, we still have dark skinned Bedouin and Yemeni etc. makes more sense Lachish reliefs were depicting a Mehri or Socotran type among Israel

[/QB][/QUOTE]

This is not an easy subject.. and does not lend itself to forum/thread explanations.. I too was a doubter... but geneticists focus on Yoruba lend me to "studying" Yoruba history, people and customs as much as I could on the internet..

The first question one must answer when pursuing this subject.. is Who are the Yoruba? Many people now counted among the Yoruba are not the original OYO Yoruba but grafted on through history, conquest, slavery etc..

Fulani Bello had no skin in the game, he was not an google professor Afrocentric.. Nor did he have access to the Lacish reliefs...

So we have to take into account his version of events.

now to the popular "history" you also have this account - Wikipedia

Oduduwa was a Yoruba divine king. According to tradition he was the holder of the title of the Ooni of Ile-Ife, the Yoruba holy city. He was not only the first ruler of a unified Ife,[1][2] but also the progenitor of various independent royal dynasties in Yorubaland and ancestor of their numerous crowned kings.[3].[4] His name, phonetically written by Yoruba language-speakers as Odùduwà and sometimes contracted as Ooduwa, Odudua or Oòdua is today venerated as "the hero, the warrior, the leader and father of the Yoruba race".[5] For a long time as propagated by early writers of Yoruba history, like the Bayajidda legend of the Hausa people, he was said to be an Eastern prince whose people were driven out of their kingdom in Mecca in Arabia [6] and were forced to migrate in a long march to present day south western Nigeria, though this belief is now thought to reflect later Islamic influences.[7] Through a war lasting many years, Oduduwa was able to defeat the forces of the 13 indigenous communities of Ife led by Obatala and formed these communities into a single Ife unit.


Back to the Lacish reliefs...

Egypt was ruling Israel at the time of the founding of Israel. Mercenaries were imported to the land of Israel by the Egyptians.. there is no doubt that Nubians/Upper Egyptians were among those mercenaries.

Isaiah 20:4 New International Version (NIV)
4 so the king of Assyria will lead away stripped and barefoot the Egyptian captives and Cushite/Ethiopian exiles, young and old, with buttocks bared—to Egypt’s shame.

Maybe Oduduwa was a Yemeni... ?


I don't know... I am still studying the subject...

But the coincidences are interesting..

By the way.. the Bible never mentions anything about Soqotrians....

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the lioness,
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 -

Notice how the dotted portion of the Assyrians hair and beard has the same dots as the Israelite hair


quote:
Originally posted by Tukuler:
[QB] You must be joking.
Trying to use my own challenge against me?
 -
Ain't nobody that slick, nice try.



Tukular can't be serious. He is trying to say that the Assyrian soldier, top left's hair can be explained by this Europeans woman's fake curls

.


.


 -


^^ But you seem to have sour grapes over the checkmate here. The Assyrian boy's hair shows the natural condition of Assyrian hair. The straight
portion in the top has been artificially combed out or crimped with oils

 -

that part is combed out otherwise the Assyrian boy's hair would look like that


 -

And we how the Assyrian boy's hair closely resembles
these Elamites

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the lioness,
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 -

 -
wavy straight portion at top of head
 -
Frieze of Archers
wavy straight portion at top of head


As we can see the hair is naturally curly in this Persian art. The straight portion at the top is merely being pulled straight by the headband

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Ish Geber
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Yes, it's very similar to this hair texture.

quote:
Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-:
I mean it would be one thing if they're were'nt native Bedouins who looked like this...


 -

 -

 -

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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:


As we can see the hair is naturally curly in this Persian art. The straight portion at the top is merely being pulled straight by the headband

From my understanding Persia didn't exist yet, but I could be wrong.

From what I read several groups moved into the region and replaced each other constantly.

quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
1) if "woolly" means afro textured hair that cannot be determined by the above art

2) no real person has hair that is straight and then curled on the bottom which means part of the hair depicted is not in it's natural condition.
The upper beard hair of the Assyrian shows the natural condition as well as the Assyrian boy.
If you think otherwise show a photo of a person that has wavy straight hair but is curled on the bottom in this drastically different way

https://images2.imgbox.com/44/0e/3Z69Jje1_o.png


https://www.lessingimages.com/p3/080203/08020367.jpg]

In Egyptian art being bearded is most similar to other Asiatics not Nehesy.
What modern people most resemble these Lachishites? I'm not sure

In hair texture they portrayed them the same fro north by the Egyptians. And ironically the Assyrians had the same in their art.

Assyrian art 1


Assyrian art 2

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quote:
Originally posted by Nassbean:
I'm waiting for the black east asia thread too

Wait no longer.


http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/feat/archives/2004/11/27/2003212815

http://m.blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_769fb5f30101hpvh.html#page=1

Have a nice day.

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...
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Tukuler
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
 -

Notice how the dotted portion of the Assyrians hair and beard has the same dots as the Israelite hair

.


Until you have superior resolution and light damping and compare elsewhere

and it doesn't matter because Assyrian ringlet bearding styles aren't head hair. And anyway many beards naturally tend to crispness

Falsemate


Uh enough straying from Lachish and not postings Swenet's text to go along with his "the kid" picture.


Sennacherib's artist was careful delineating Judahite head hair from Assyrian head hair

 -  -

Judean hair/beard is tighter woolly than Assyrian looser curling hairs. The Lessing resolution shows this clearly.

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Archeopteryx
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The look of what is at least believed to be Israelites can vary in ancient art

Egyptian art  -

Egyptian art
 -

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Interesting about ancient male Jewish hair

quote:
One of the more fascinating finds in this tomb, one that has not received much attention, was the preservation of a sample of Jewish male hair. The hair was lice-free, and was trimmed or cut evenly, probably indicating that the family buried in this tomb practiced good hygiene and grooming. The length of the hair was medium to short, averaging 3-4 inches. The color was reddish.
https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/ancient-cultures/ancient-israel/the-only-ancient-jewish-hair-ever-found/

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Archeopteryx
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Interesting about ancient male Jewish hair

quote:
One of the more fascinating finds in this tomb, one that has not received much attention, was the preservation of a sample of Jewish male hair. The hair was lice-free, and was trimmed or cut evenly, probably indicating that the family buried in this tomb practiced good hygiene and grooming. The length of the hair was medium to short, averaging 3-4 inches. The color was reddish.
https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/ancient-cultures/ancient-israel/the-only-ancient-jewish-hair-ever-found/

--------------------
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Archeopteryx
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Some more Egyptian art depicting people from Middle East

 -

quote:
This painting depicts a family of nomadic traders entering Egypt from Canaan in the 19th cent. BCE. This is a very rare depiction of ancient Semites, dressed in colorful tunics, as opposed to the Egyptians wearing only white waistcloths.


--------------------
Once an archaeologist, always an archaeologist

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Archeopteryx
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Some more Egyptian art depicting people from Middle East

 -

quote:
This painting depicts a family of nomadic traders entering Egypt from Canaan in the 19th cent. BCE. This is a very rare depiction of ancient Semites, dressed in colorful tunics, as opposed to the Egyptians wearing only white waistcloths.


--------------------
Once an archaeologist, always an archaeologist

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BrandonP
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quote:
Originally posted by Archeopteryx:
Some more Egyptian art depicting people from Middle East

 -

quote:
This painting depicts a family of nomadic traders entering Egypt from Canaan in the 19th cent. BCE. This is a very rare depiction of ancient Semites, dressed in colorful tunics, as opposed to the Egyptians wearing only white waistcloths.

Might want to post the original mural straight from the tomb instead of a modern reproduction.

 -

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