quote:Originally posted by Nevermore: Btw. In the shield of that persian you can See the famous Scene originally depicted in Persepolis. Dark beards, light faces. The Colours are revealed by UV Vis spectrometry.
You are some funny individual. You’ve posted this picture at least 4 times, as if that is going to change the narrative.
quote:The period following the fall of the Akkadian Empire is traditionally seen as a period of darkness and anarchy by historians. While the perceived darkness is due to the rarity of Gutian artefacts and text material, the anarchy is an impression formed by the historians gained from the Sumerian and Babylonian historical and literary compositions describing Gutian rule. In fact these compositions were mostly compiled later than the Gutian period itself. Later in this chapter we shall attempt to answer the question whether the Gutian period was really so dark and fruitless, and to interpret the related evidence.
The Gutian Arrival
Some historical allusions in the texts of the Akkadian period indicate that early on there was Gutian infiltration into Mesopotamian lowlands. One of these allusions is to the probable presence of Gutians as soldiers in the Akkadian army.1 The archives of Adab from the Akkadian period mention Gutians who received rations,2 some of them described as ‘travellers’3 and others term residents, that the local governor had to use a Gutian interpreter to communicate with them.
[...]
This acquaintance with Mesopotamian practices as well as other pertinent circumstances helped the Gutians overthrow the Akkadian Dynasty and seize power in the land.
[...]
Whatever the background, the Gutians finally dominated the land of Akkad and “carried off the kingship of Sumer to the mountains/foreign land.”17 This metaphor clearly implies that the fate of the land and its sovereignty passed into the hands of a foreigner, specifically the great Gutian king.18 The Gutians were probably supported by other peoples and groups in the region, perhaps even the Sumerians,19 who looked for liberation from the Akkadian yoke. The neighbouring peoples had together formed an alliance against Narām-Sîn years before, and so it would have been natural to do the same this time. Among the probable allies one may expect the Elamites who were always ready to benefit from any weakness of their western neighbour, the Lullubians, the Hurrians and other mountain peoples and groups who had raided Akkadian territories earlier or who had suffered from campaigns of the kings of Agade.(20) It appears that the Gutians did not (or perhaps they were not able to) spread their hegemony over the whole land of Sumer and Akkad. This is suggested by the presence of the influential Second Lagaš Dynasty and the Uruk Dynasty at the end of the period of Gutian rule. The inscriptions of Ur-Namma refer to at least three independent political entities in Sumer at that period: the Uruk city-state with its ruler Utu‹eg̃al, Lagaš, and the region under the Gutians. There is a suggestion that the two royal names Dudu and Šudurul, mentioned in the SKL as kings of Agade, were in fact rulers of the region centred on the city of Agade (21) during the Gutian rule.
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: Karueein University introduced in Africa 859 CE. Sankore University established in West Africa 13th Cent. Marien Ngouabi University of Congo founded 1971.
This is not a rhetorical question Nevermore. Why would it take >900 years for Congo to have a university?
.
quote:Originally posted by Nevermore: @ISH GABOR
quote: I was never a refugee. So I don't know what the hell you are talking about. Oh wait, you're a uneducated
I just told you i hold a masters degree from an european technical University. What education do u have? Maybe you dont know the word "University". Its a "school" for adults. Introduced in Europe in 1089 AD.Introduced in congo [sic]: maybe the next Millenium.
So on which continent did you Go to school, If U did?
So If you are No refugee, Then what are you Doing in a non-african Country?
posted
@Ish Gebor You are funny I hold a masters degree from a european technical University. What IS your education Background??? But you dont dare to tell right
1) you did Not Show me a COLOURED piece of art of an ancient persian HUMAN , neither Achaemenid nor Sasanian
2) i showed U COLOURED art of ancient persian HUMAN, both achamaenid and sasanian showing them NOT to be black AND showing them with both straight and curly Hair
3) its a FACT persians, greeks, Assyrians artficially curled their Hair
4) could U please Show me ANY coloured Achaemenid or sasanian Art depicting a persian NOBLEMAN( not Elamite)
Posts: 95 | From: Europa | Registered: Mar 2018
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Persepolis relief sculpture, modern Iranians, a Persian soldier from the Alexander mosaic
Lioness is about to post the Smooth Jazz guy with curly hair in 3..2...1...
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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posted
Why are you showing me Non-black modern iranians (modern iranians are totally different to ancient iranic persians, parthians, Saka, bactrians due to millenia of mixing) with curly Hair ? and non black (but Brown)persian soldiers from the Alexander mosaic? This only proves my Point that ancient persians werent black. BTW Darius from the mosaic has straight hair. Just Trust the coloured art depicting persians ( not Elamites)
Posts: 95 | From: Europa | Registered: Mar 2018
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BTW Darius from the mosaic has straight hair. Just Trust the coloured art depicting persians ( not Elamites)
why trust a Roman mosaic made 286 years after the death of Darius over art commissioned by Darius himself when he was alive? That makes no sense. You are just practicing confirmation bias and cherry picking. They appear closer to middle eastern than European looking and would probably not fit into "black" or "white" categories. Why not just leave it at that?
posted
1) Excuse me, you yourself Provided the mosaic in your Last Post to prove Something 2) the relief of Darius you posted is COLOURLESS and He has totalyy stylized beard. You See that right? 3) instead let's Look at this COLOURED piece from an ACHAEMENID Tomb 400 BC, from an ACHAEMENID with ACHAMAENID clothes AND HAT.
I dont know whats so hard to understand Here.
4) Then Alexander sarcophargus was Made 325 BC (!!!!!) and it Shows achamaenid persians. What Else you want.
Conclusion: there is not a Single coloured evidence that shows achamaenids royals to be black. Instead ACHAMAENIDS painted THEMSELVES as shown above and CONTEMPORARIES painted(!!!!!) Them also light skinned as you can See from the Alexander sarcophargus and the Darius Vase.
Those are facts, you Provide guesses.
Posts: 95 | From: Europa | Registered: Mar 2018
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posted
you can put the information back up if you want but everybody knows now I'm not allowing name calling in the thread If I see it, the whole post is deleted
--lioness
[ 16. April 2018, 10:50 AM: Message edited by: the lioness, ]
Posts: 22244 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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2) i showed U COLOURED art of ancient persian HUMAN, both achamaenid and sasanian showing them NOT to be black AND showing them with both straight and curly Hair
quote:Originally posted by Nevermore: @Ish Gebor
3) its a FACT persians, greeks, Assyrians artficially curled their Hair
More of your alternative facts. smh By whom was that claimed? Some folks who have no curly hair?
quote:which suggested that the African ancestry in West Eurasians is at least as closely related to East Africans (e.g. Hapmap3 Luhya (LWK)) as to West Africans (e.g. Nigerian Yoruba (YRI)) (the same analyses show that there is no evidence of relatedness to Chadic populations like Bulala) (Text S5 and Figure S12).
-- Moorjani et al. 2011 The History of African Gene Flow into Southern Europeans, Levantines, and Jews
Posts: 22244 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Nevermore: @Ish Gebor 4) could U please Show me ANY coloured Achaemenid or sasanian Art depicting a persian NOBLEMAN( not Elamite)
Why would I want to do that? I have NEVER claimed anything about the Achaemenid or sasanian.
By the way Elamite exceeds the date for Achaemenid or sasanian by thousands of years. Ironically, it seems that there was replacement, if we look at the dates.
Posts: 22244 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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BTW Darius from the mosaic has straight hair. Just Trust the coloured art depicting persians ( not Elamites)
why trust a Roman mosaic made 286 years after the death of Darius over art commissioned by Darius himself when he was alive? That makes no sense. You are just practicing confirmation bias and cherry picking. They appear closer to middle eastern than European looking and would probably not fit into "black" or "white" categories. Why not just leave it at that?
posted
you can put the information back up if you want but everybody knows now I'm not allowing name calling in the thread If I see it, the whole post is deleted
--lioness
[ 16. April 2018, 10:59 AM: Message edited by: the lioness, ]
Posts: 22244 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Nevermore: And teach him also how to Count. Remember his 930AD = 9th Century adventure?
He obviously didnt cover this in his "University program" :
It's not my fault you lack severe critical thinking skills. The 930AD = 9th is a continuation of earlier events that took place by the same people in the same region. Keep acting as if this doesn't exist. You are so slow, I think it will take you 2 years to catchup, before you realize what I am talking about. Keep posting your smilies so people can see your stupidity.
quote:
The strongest of these tribes was the Seljuks. In the wake of the Samanids (819-1005)---Persians who set up a local dynasty in Central Asia within the Abbasid Empire--- arose to two Turkish dynasties: the Ghaznavids, based in Khorasan in present-day Turkmenistan, and the Karakhanids from present-day Kazakhstan.
[…]
The Abbasids—the Arab-Muslim rulers of Bahgdad—were displaced by Turkic-speaking warriors who had been in Central Asia for more than a millennium. The Abbasid caliphs began enlisting these people as slave warriors as early as the ninth century. The Turkish horsemen, known as gazis , were organized into tribal bands to defend the frontiers of the caliphate, often against their own kinsmen.
Shortly thereafter the real power of the Abbasid caliphs began to wane; eventually they became religious figureheads while the warrior slaves ruled. As the power of the Abbasid caliphs diminished, a series of independent and indigenous dynasties rose in various parts of Iran, some with considerable influence and power. Among the most important of these overlapping dynasties were the Tahirids in Khorasan (820-72); the Saffarids in Sistan (867-903); and the Samanids (875-1005), originally at Bukhara (also cited as Bokhara).
I know its hard for you to accept Elamites where very prominent in the ancient persian Empire. But they were not persians, thus the distinction between ELAMITES and PERSIANS Posts: 95 | From: Europa | Registered: Mar 2018
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quote:Originally posted by Nevermore: You are HILARIOUS again and again
This Guy with the spear is ELAMITE.
characterized by his headwear
I know its hard for you to accept Elamites where very prominent in the ancient persian Empire. But they were not persians, thus the distinction between ELAMITES and PERSIANS
Dopy, you are so slow, I think it will take you 2 years to catchup, before you realize what I am talking about. Keep posting your smilies so people can see your stupidity.
Instead of iterating your stupidity, start reading the 338 page PDF book / file attached to the link in the previous post.
(Royal City of Susa: Ancient Near Eastern Treasures in the Louvre Harper, Prudence O., Joan Aruz, and Françoise Tallon, eds. (1992))
You yourself wrote this:
quote:Originally posted by Nevermore: ] @Ish Gebor 1) you did Not Show me a COLOURED piece of art of an ancient persian HUMAN , neither Achaemenid nor Sasanian
In fact I did, and your dumbass just admitted to that.
Posts: 22244 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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posted
You know the Difference btw persians and elamites? NO!
I Tell you:
Elamites= natives to southwest Iran Persians= foreigners Elamites spoke elamite, a language Isolate Persians spoke old persian, an Indo Europeans language
you are Welcome Posts: 95 | From: Europa | Registered: Mar 2018
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quote:Originally posted by Nevermore: Elamites where very prominent in the ancient persian Empire. But they were not persians, thus the distinction between ELAMITES and PERSIANS
If by conclusion you exclude them from being Parisian, the entire argument and discussion and question was not needed in the first place. It was rhetorical biased.
quote:Originally posted by Nevermore: You know the Difference btw persians and elamites? NO!
I Tell you:
Elamites= natives to southwest Iran Persians= foreigners Elamites spoke elamite, a language Isolate Persians spoke old persian, an Indo Europeans language
you are Welcome
Great. It was you who started this, not me. So I don't see what you are trying to argue about. As I said, your logical thinking skills are a bit off (to put it nicely).
You are constantly posting art depicting ELAMITES and providing them as a proof for ancient persians' skin colour.
I asked for coloured art that show PERSIANS.
AGAIN you are posting pictures of ELAMITES.
I on the other hand am posting COLOURED Pictures of PERSIANS.
SEE ?
Posts: 95 | From: Europa | Registered: Mar 2018
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
Karueein University introduced in Africa 859 CE. Sankore University established in West Africa 13th Cent. Marien Ngouabi University of Congo founded 1971. This is not a rhetorical question Nevermore. Why would it take >900 years for Congo to have a university?
West Africans are in Oxfordland academically kicking natives all in they ass. Refer to published stats.
.
quote:Originally posted by Nevermore: @ISH GABOR
quote: I was never a refugee. So I don't know what the hell you are talking about. Oh wait, you're a uneducated
I just told you i hold a masters degree from an european technical University. What education do u have? Maybe you dont know the word "University". Its a "school" for adults. Introduced in Europe in 1089 AD.Introduced in congo [sic]: maybe the next Millenium.
So on which continent did you Go to school, If U did?
So If you are No refugee, Then what are you Doing in a non-african Country?
1) Western Ethiopians (African blacks with curly hair) 2) Eastern Ethipians (Indian blacks with straight hair)
So why are persians, romans, not called ETHIOPIANS by the greeks?
And why did the greeks differ between themselves persians, romans and blacks when they themselves were black???
Posts: 95 | From: Europa | Registered: Mar 2018
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quote:Originally posted by Nevermore: i know you dont understand.
Here is the explanation.
You are constantly posting art depicting ELAMITES and providing them as a proof for ancient persians' skin colour.
I asked for coloured art that show PERSIANS.
AGAIN you are posting pictures of ELAMITES.
I on the other hand am posting COLOURED Pictures of PERSIANS.
SEE ?
I did so because in multiple sources they are under the denominator of being Persian. This is obviously a mistake, nevertheless it's a fact that it happens.
Touraj Daryaee is the Maseeh Chair in Persian Studies & Culture and the Director of the Dr. Samuel M. Jordan Center for Persian Studies and Culture at the University of California, Irvine.
1) Western Ethiopians (African blacks with curly hair) 2) Eastern Ethipians (Indian blacks with straight hair)
So why are persians, romans, not called ETHIOPIANS by the greeks?
And why did the greeks differ between themselves persians, romans and blacks when they themselves were black???
If I recall correctly, the ancient greeks did refer to a people from the northern hemespher as ETHIOPIANS.
Posts: 22244 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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posted
To which one? But they called persians persians and romans Romans and Saka were saka,
The greeks were in close contact to black people, Romans, Indians ( via the persian Army), persians and they differed between them.
Posts: 95 | From: Europa | Registered: Mar 2018
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posted
And ancient greeks also were not black. SURE, there were blacks in greece but they were ethnically not greeks. Maybe Blacks also were the Natives of some parts of greece before the greeks arrived.
As We know people migrate and the native people dont Always profit from it
Posts: 95 | From: Europa | Registered: Mar 2018
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posted
@Nevermore, Posters here tend not to claim greeks etc as "black", it's only a few posters who write these things and make these claims. Most posters here talk about Egyptology and things that revolve around that subject.
Posts: 22244 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor: Tell, why was the thread on "Black Neolithic Persians of the Iranians" deleted? Right before this crap is being propagated?
posted
In an academic forum you cant call the other person slow and stupid. That's weak and low frequency I'm not allowing insults in the thread, I've already stated this
Posts: 42939 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
Too bad the Kenny G pics are not forthcoming this time. Lioness' white-people-can-have-curly-hair-too campaigns usually include a copy.
For those who don't get the inside joke, the Lioness white-people-can-have-curly-hair-too campaign is real. She keeps a bunch of Kenny G pics on deck at all times. Bet she has some in her backpocket right now. She usually starts with some pics of curly jews and Iranians, but might pull out the heavy artillery (Kenny G pics) if you don't back down. Luckily for me, she didn't post the Kenny G pics the last time we got into it. Fully aware of the risks inherent in doing so, I posted the afros on the battlefield palette in a thread where lioness was active, and suggested they were African. I barely got away in one piece. But I'll never forget she could have used her fatality on me if she wanted to.
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Swenet: Too bad the Kenny G pics are not forthcoming this time. Lioness' white-people-can-have-curly-hair-too campaigns usually include a copy.
For those who don't get the inside joke, the Lioness white-people-can-have-curly-hair-too campaign is real. She keeps a bunch of Kenny G pics on deck at all times. Bet she has some in her backpocket right now. She usually starts with some pics of curly jews and Iranians, but might pull out the heavy artillery (Kenny G pics) if you don't back down. Luckily for me, she didn't post the Kenny G pics the last time we got into it. Fully aware of the risks inherent in doing so, I posted the afros on the battlefield palette in a thread where lioness was active, and suggested they were African. I barely got away in one piece. But I'll never forget she could have used her fatality on me if she wanted to.
stop trolling
^^ I don't consider this person to be "white" and I have stated repeatedly that the below Medes and Persians don't appear, in my opinion to be classified as "Black" or "white" and I also showed the winged sphinx from the Palace of Darius which was an argument that the Persians at that time may have had brown skin
Now after you stop trolling and begging to see Kenny G, I dare you to answer the question as to whether or not you see the Persians in this relief to be African types
(people watch now as he goes in to his purposeful over complicated answer to hide behind muddy water)
Posts: 42939 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness: Now after you stop trolling and begging to see Kenny G, I dare you to answer the question as to whether you see the Persians in this relief to be African types
Why ask me when you can consult the facts? Facts say Iranians have the most dilution of Neanderthal (see all the green symbols below), which is academic code for African ancestry.
Note the "Iran_recent" sample (Medieval period, IIRC) is apparently just as African as the Raqafet Natufian sample.
EDIT:
quote: GD1150 (I1955): 18-30 year-old male from levels A/D. This individual is a clear genetic outlier and was analyzed separately from the other individuals pending radiocarbon dating, which confirmed that it was not from the Neolithic period but of recent origin (1430-1485 calCE (330±30 BP, Beta- 432801); it is thus labeled Iran_recent.
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: ^^ as I predicted he doesn't answer the question
No, why should I. You give me two options. Are they African types or not. Why not ask if I think these Persians inherited extra African ancestry when their ancestors settled Iran from the steppes. You could have just as easily asked that, but you ask me a loaded question.
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posted
It's very simple. If you want your question answered in a clear and uncomplicated manner (you always say I complicate things), then all you have to do is look at the genetic difference between the first Indo-Europeans (see the four square and purple symbols in the graphic I posted above) and their partial descendants in Iron Age and Common Era Iran.
So, why is lioness still not happy with the answers provided? Could it be that she low-key wants it to remain a contentious open issue where only Kenny G pic and curly haired whites are admissible evidence?
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posted
Nah my G. You were trying to ask a leading question, but I got your number. So I answered on my own terms.
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posted
Well, it needs a conversion factor. A recent estimate of an average 1.5% Neanderthal ancestry in Han Chinese might be a good representative of the proportion of Neanderthal in 0% Basal Eurasian populations. So that would suggest that the Medieval Iranian is maybe around half a percent more African than her putative Steppe ancestors.
Posts: 660 | From: Canada | Registered: Mar 2017
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness: Now after you stop trolling and begging to see Kenny G, I dare you to answer the question as to whether you see the Persians in this relief to be African types
Why ask me when you can consult the facts? Facts say Iranians have the most dilution of Neanderthal (see all the green symbols below), which is academic code for African ancestry.
Note the "Iran_recent" sample (Medieval period, IIRC) is apparently just as African as the Raqafet Natufian sample.
EDIT:
quote: GD1150 (I1955): 18-30 year-old male from levels A/D. This individual is a clear genetic outlier and was analyzed separately from the other individuals pending radiocarbon dating, which confirmed that it was not from the Neolithic period but of recent origin (1430-1485 calCE (330±30 BP, Beta- 432801); it is thus labeled Iran_recent.
Ooooooooooh...ok. Now I see what the big deal about Basal Eurasian is with the Natufians. Where's this study?
Posts: 2508 | From: . | Registered: Nov 2011
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quote:Originally posted by Swenet: Why ask me when you can consult the facts? Facts say Iranians have the most dilution of Neanderthal (see all the green symbols below), which is academic code for African ancestry.
Note the "Iran_recent" sample (Medieval period, IIRC) is apparently just as African as the Raqafet Natufian sample.
EDIT:
quote: GD1150 (I1955): 18-30 year-old male from levels A/D. This individual is a clear genetic outlier and was analyzed separately from the other individuals pending radiocarbon dating, which confirmed that it was not from the Neolithic period but of recent origin (1430-1485 calCE (330±30 BP, Beta- 432801); it is thus labeled Iran_recent.
Does this in fact correlate with what you were saying in my South Asian thread? I think I also remember Elmaestro saying something different. Yeah low Neanderthal is a red warning for African ancestry.
Elmaestro was right it is the beginning of the end for those on Team Euro when it comes to Basel Eurasian.
Posts: 1891 | From: NY | Registered: Sep 2014
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quote:Originally posted by capra: Well, it needs a conversion factor. A recent estimate of an average 1.5% Neanderthal ancestry in Han Chinese might be a good representative of the proportion of Neanderthal in 0% Basal Eurasian populations. So that would suggest that the Medieval Iranian is maybe around half a percent more African than her putative Steppe ancestors.
A couple of things to keep in mind here.
1) Estimates of Neanderthal ancestry differ depending on the paper and sometimes even depending on the analyses used in the same paper. The figures are not compatible across papers. Does the analysis you're using give the Neanderthal % of the Iran_Recent sample?
2) 0.5% more Neanderthal in Han compared to Iran_recent does not translate to 0.5% more African ancestry in Iran_recent, if that is what you mean. Going by your figure of 1.5% in Han, 0.5% less Neanderthal would correspond to ~33% extra African ancestry in the Iran_recent sample
3) While the Han Neanderthal % initially seemed to be a good proxy of pure Eurasian ancestry, this is now no longer the case. For instance Eurasian HGs have Neanderthal proportions ranging from ~10-2%. Han Chinese are on the lower end of the range. Meaning, their Neanderthal % also decreased over time
4) It's not just Basal Eurasian that decreased the Neanderthal in Iran_recent and other Eurasians. Bronze Age Semitic speakers for instance also spread recent Sub-Saharan ancestry. This ancestry also would have reached Iran.
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You can find the graph in Lazaridis et al 2014. But the paper isn't admitting that the decrease in Neanderthal is due to African ancestry, so there is not much in it if that's what you're looking for.
HotuIII is a pre-Neolithic Iranian from the Hotu cave. He has >60% African ancestry.
Here for the sake of pushing scholarship on ES. Being that later studies shy away from mentioning any anthropological similarities between samples of these regions and Africa.
Yes. One major reason why those new E1bs in Eurasia are important is because they show that the African uniparentals are starting to show a better correlation with Basal Eurasian. So, for instance, some people were saying that Basal Eurasian can't be African because the genomes that have it generally don't have African uniparentals. This was always a bogus argument, because no one would say the paucity of Y-DNA G in modern Europe means EEF ancestry wasn't passed on to modern Europeans. So I always knew it was a bogus argument. But now the evidence is coming along, which is always better than just knowing it's true without having direct evidence.
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Your definition of anyone without Neanderthal ancestry as 'African' is not one I am using here, naturally.
Your evidence that Bronze Age Semitic speakers carried significant amounts of recent Sub-Saharan ancestry?
There is significant recent Sub-Saharan ancestry in southern Iran, but it appears to be fairly negligible elsewhere, and I don't detect any in Iran_recent (been playing around modelling with the new genomes).
Posts: 660 | From: Canada | Registered: Mar 2017
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quote:Originally posted by Swenet: Yes. One major reason why those new E1bs in Eurasia are important is because they show that the African uniparentals are starting to show a better correlation with Basal Eurasian. So, for instance, some people were saying that Basal Eurasian can't be African because the genomes that have it generally don't have African uniparentals. This was always a bogus argument, because no one would say the paucity of Y-DNA G in modern Europe means EEF ancestry wasn't passed on to modern Europeans. So I always knew it was a bogus argument. But now the evidence is coming along, which is always better than just knowing it's true without having direct evidence.
Not only that I also heard(correct me) that those Neolithic Iranians had more Basel Eurasian than the Natufians and so I believe we are getting closer than before especially the finding of e1b in this part of the world.
Posts: 1891 | From: NY | Registered: Sep 2014
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: So now lack of 1.5 to 2.1 percent Neanderthal = African
Not sure what you're asking precisely. But Eurasians started out with at least 4.4% Neanderthal. See the 4.4% in Ust-Ishim below (he is the best sample we have right now that we can use as a proxy for what original Eurasians were like, before more recent OOA migrations):
The figures you're using of 2% and 1.5% apply only to modern Eurasians, not to ancient Eurasians (see the percentages in the table above). So, if you want a good starting point from which to calculate the amount of African ancestry in Eurasians, you would start with 4.4% Neanderthal, not with 1.5% or 2%.
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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Your definition of anyone without Neanderthal ancestry as 'African' is not one I am using here, naturally.
Your evidence that Bronze Age Semitic speakers carried significant amounts of recent Sub-Saharan ancestry?
There is significant recent Sub-Saharan ancestry in southern Iran, but it appears to be fairly negligible elsewhere, and I don't detect any in Iran_recent (been playing around modelling with the new genomes).
The oldest mixture events appear to be between populations related to sub-Saharan Africans and West Europeans occurring ~3800 BCE, followed closely by a mixture of Sardinian and Caucasus-related populations. Later, several mixture events occurred from 3000 to 1200 BCE involving diverse Eurasian populations (Table 1, Figure 3).
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