-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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Nice map. I would modify it a tad. There is no sharp divide line. There is gradation. As LazaridusDNATribes pointed out, EEF extends to the Harrapan Valley. ANE(Asia) has higher frequency in Northern Europe. East Asians are primarily ANE
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
As xyyman has demonstrated, so called "Europe" is also an extension of Africa
Technically he is correct, when you speak in terms of expansion. And that map is nice thou.
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So what you are saying is that the Minoan people were heavily influenced by Africans. Correct me if I'm wrong.
I never said "heavily" but obviously there was influence. There is still debate as to how much influence from Africa Minoan culture had, but as has been noted in this forum you see certain things here and there.
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posted
Child of the king, no hard feelings bro i understand your concerns now!
Blessedbyhorus, i dont know... the pictures appear for me. Go to pinterest.com or flick.com and type phoenician to get the pictures.
^^Statue of a seated god Hazor Late Canaanite period, 15th-13th century
^^Statue of the storm god poised to strike Hazor Late Canaanite period, 15th-13th century BCE
^^Weather and War God, Baal Bronze; Syria or Anatolia, 1400 - 1200 B. C.
^^Hadad - God of the wind,the rain,the storms phoenician daity
^^Fragment of a Phoenician - style ivory of a bearded head found in an Assyrian palace Iraq Museum
Posts: 26 | From: Memphis | Registered: Apr 2014
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posted
The lies of Eurocentrism is coming to end. I haven’t seen anything from DNATribes for Oct2014. Strange?! Continue to rgue over “pictures”. Posted ON ESR – for more details
Through genetics - They have known for a long time that Africans (AMH) entered Europe NOT through the Levant but through Northern Africa and Southern Europe. They have been lying and/or just burying their heads in the sand like ostrich’s. Lying to themselves and to the world, the liars they are. Trying to convince themselves they are not a sub-set of recent North Africans who are in turn a sub-set of South Saharans. Using reverse psychology, trying to convince us North Africana are admixture of Europeans migrants and South Saharan Africans. They have been trying with all their might, media power and lies they are distantly related to Africans.
Pickerell corroborates what Lazaridis just authored in his Sep2014 study about 3 ancestry for modern Europeans. The lies are coming to end …maybe we can finally move on.
Here is what the infamous – Pickrell et al says.
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Inference of Population Splits and Mixtures from Genome-Wide Allele Frequency Data - Joseph K. Pickrell1*, Jonathan K. Pritchard1,2* -DEC 2012
Two inferred edges were unexpected. First, perhaps the most surprising inference is that Cambodians trace about 16% of their ancestry to a population equally related to both Europeans and other East Asians (while the remaining 84% of their ancestry is related to other southeast Asians). This is partially consistent with clustering analyses, which indicate shared ancestry between Cambodians and central Asian populations [7]. To confirm that the Cambodians are admixed, we turned to less parameterized models. The predicted admixture event implies that allele frequencies in Cambodia are more similar to those in African populations than would be expected based on their East Asian ancestry. To test this, we used three-population tests [37]. We tested the trees [African, [Cambodian,Dai]] for evidence of admixture in the Cambodians (Methods). When using any African population, there is strong evidence of admixture (when using Yoruba, Z~{7:0 [p~1|10{12]; when using Mandenka, Z~{7:3 [p~1|10{12]; when using San, Z~{4:8 [p~8|10{7]). We conclude that the Cambodian population is the result of an admixture event involving a southeast Asian population related to the Dai and a Eurasian population only distantly related to those present in these data. Finally, we infer an admixture edge from the Middle East (a population related to the Mozabite, a Berber population from northern Africa) to southern European populations (w~22%). This migration edge is the one edge that is not consistent across independent runs of TreeMix on these data (Figure S8). In particular, an alternative graph (albeit with lower likelihood) places the Mozabite as an admixture between southern Europe and Africa (*****RATHER ******than the Middle East and Africa), and does NOT include an edge from the middle East to southern Europe.
WE THUS HESITATE TO INTERPRET THIS RESULT, except to note that the relationship between northern African, the Middle East, and southern Europe involves complex patterns of gene flow that merit further investigation [43,57].
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posted
Indeed. The Levant, South Arabia and Southern Europe is an extension of Africa. And these geneticst have the evidence amd they know it. Africans have been expanding and migrating to those regions in waves.
This is not rocket science.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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Lazaridis, Pickerell, DNATribes, xyyman, Sergi Evans, Smith and many others, we all conclude that Modern Europeans are a sub-set of North Africans ie That originate amongst the Luyha region of Africa only about 10kya.
Dumb fcks…continue arguing what an Ethiopian look like and whether they are admixed or not. SMH
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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Lazaridis just corroborates what Shriver concluded close to five years ago. Light skin has an African origin. This is not rocket science. SMH
-------- QUOTE: A profound transformation must have taken place in West Eurasia after the Neolithic Revolution." The researchers also analyzed genes with known phenotypic association and show that some of the hunter-gatherers likely had blue eyes eyes and darker skin, whereas the early farmers had lighter skin and brownish eyes. Both the hunter-gatherers as well as the early farmers displayed high copy numbers of amylase genes in their genomes, suggesting that both populations had already adapted to a starch-rich diet.
Using the large dataset of present-day and ancient human data, the researchers were able to calculate the proportion of the ancestral components in present-day Europeans. "Nearly all Europeans have ancestry from all three ancestral groups," says Iosif Lazaridis from Harvard Medical School. "Differences between them are due to the relative proportions of ancestry. Northern Europeans have more hunter-gatherer ancestry—up to about fifty percent in Lithuanians—and Southern Europeans have more farmer ancestry."
We find a major surprise: Europeans are a mixture of three ancient populations, not two,” says David Reich from Harvard Medical School, one of the lead investigators of the new study. “We had previously found an ancient genetic link of present-day Europeans and Native Americans,” adds Nick Patterson from the Broad Institute in Boston. “To our surprise this component was not present in the ancient hunter-gatherer from Luxembourg, nor was it present in the first European farmers”.
--------- BTW- The same Luyha/Maasai region carry alleles for blue eyes. Source cited on ESR.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
So Lioness. Do you now understand what Mediterranean “bridge” means when Lazaridis mention it in his latest paper?
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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Anyone understands what the following bolded section means? Anyone? The significance? It seems like ANE gene material was NOT present in WHG nor EEF. Anyone?
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Quote: We find a major surprise: Europeans are a mixture of three ancient populations, not two,” says David Reich from Harvard Medical School, one of the lead investigators of the new study. “We had previously found an ancient genetic link of present-day Europeans and Native Americans,” adds Nick Patterson from the Broad Institute in Boston. “To our surprise this component was not present in the ancient hunter-gatherer from Luxembourg, nor was it present in the first European farmers”
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This is the stuff that is really fascinating and should be discussed.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
This is what is so perplexing about Europeans; they have an innate behavior to lie. I just don’t get it. It is so much easier to man-up and move on. Why pretend to be something you are not?
What am I getting at? This is what Pickrell said, quote: (((WE THUS HESITATE TO INTERPRET THIS RESULT,…)))). WTF does that mean!?
It means they are going to ignore what they just observed and prefer to lie and continue the myth. That is what it means.
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posted
End of rant from the crazy uncle…..lol! I am anxious to see what DNATribes have up their sleeves for OCT2014. This is the first time they are two weeks late.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: End of rant from the crazy uncle…..lol! I am anxious to see what DNATribes have up their sleeves for OCT2014. This is the first time they are two weeks late.
They are late because of you. Europeans do not like to see their research seriously analyzed as it relates to Black people because then the lies are made visible.
Every since the late 19th Century when Afro-Americans began to write on the unity of Black people , Europeans have been trying to separate Asian Blacks from Africans, and Australian Blacks from Blacks in Africa, and Blacks on the Asian Islands and the Asian mainland. Afro-American researchers like W.E.B. Dubois, J.A. Rogers and John Jackson saw through the lies and published the TRUTH.
ES is a very influential site. Here people debate the relevant issues of archaeology, genetics and anthropology. Although most of the old timers are Egyptocentric, due to Marc, Mike, Ironlion and myself, researchers like yourself have began to look below the surface of new genetic research and shown that the supplemental data, often tells a different story than the story told in the main article. You have been the most vocal "oldtimer" to blast through the propaganda and tell the truth.
Amun and you have especially promoted the DNATribes material which shows the African origin of the Egyptians. Due to lioness, you have to keep up on your game so the resulting debates make it even more clear the connections between African and Black populations in Asia.
Professional geneticist like Keita, help support the status quo (e.g., the myth of the Afro-Asiatic languages). It took people like the posters here at ES to question some of the genetics research and made it available in a way laymen could understand.
Now that DNATribes has been notified how you are making your own interpretations of their material, in a valid and reliable way they are trying to find a way to publish their newsletter without giving data that support Afrocentrism.
I am very proud of you xyyman. You had your doubts about the research of Mike and I, but you kept an open mind and now you are a major advocate of TRUTH.
Keep up the good work. Don't let the Haters turn you around.
posted
But this is fascinating. Doing a search on the famed Dr Iosif Lazaridis on LinkedIn I came across a piece of information that blew my mind. May be someone can help me out?
I was shocked to know Lazaridis is NOT a geneticist. He is neither a anthropologist, archeologist nor Historian. His undergrad is from Greece. MS and PhD here in the US. His degrees are all in …..Computer Science!!!!!!! Yet he is the LEAD author on such a ground breaking piece of work. Haak, Henn etc and the like “co-authored”. The man is a “numbers cruncher”. He has no formal training in genetics or any of the related disciplines.!!! In fact he was out of work until he got this job about 14mths ago. Something does not add up. Anyone? Did he sleep his way to the top?
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posted
The only “out” they got is. They will start falsifying data. There is only so many ways they can spin BS. So far they haven’t done that ie falsify data. What they done so far is spin it in their favor.
In the words of Denzel in Training Day ……“King Kong(Euros) got nothing on me!!!!!”
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: But this is fascinating. Doing a search on the famed Dr Iosif Lazaridis on LinkedIn I came across a piece of information that blew my mind. May be someone can help me out?
I was shocked to know Lazaridis is NOT a geneticist. He is neither a anthropologist, archeologist nor Historian. His undergrad is from Greece. MS and PhD here in the US. His degrees are all in …..Computer Science!!!!!!! Yet he is the LEAD author on such a ground breaking piece of work. Haak, Henn etc and the like “co-authored”. The man is a “numbers cruncher”. He has no formal training in genetics or any of the related disciplines.!!! In fact he was out of work until he got this job about 14mths ago. Something does not add up. Anyone? Did he sleep his way to the top?
Probably not. If the research is sound it will be published if it agrees with the status quo.
Lazaridis, Pickerell, DNATribes, xyyman, Sergi Evans, Smith and many others, we all conclude that Modern Europeans are a sub-set of North Africans ie That originate amongst the Luyha region of Africa only about 10kya.
Clyde this what xyyman is saying modern Europeans were Luhya Africans a bantu group in Kenya only before about 10 thousand years ago
So let's say 11, 12, 14 thousand years ago the ancestors of modern European looked like this Luhya man
ten thousand years later they look like this white Luhya man, post refrigeration
^In other words the above man is a lot more African
than this Papua New Guinea man who has been out of Africa for perhaps 70 thousand years, evolving, mutating accordingly
"Modern Europeans are a sub-set of North Africans that originate amongst the Luhya region of Africa only about 10kya" ---xyyman
So within 10 thousand years the Luhya people migrated from Kenya to North Africa. Then about 4,500 years ago they went into Europe, founded European civilization, and are known today as modern Europeans. Let's not be fooled by appearances. Modern Europeans, blond hair, blue eyes , whatever type are basically Africans, only their phenotype has changed by the environmental conditions, genetically their DNA is recent African
Clyde you need to update your origin of the modern European xyyman has expanded our understanding
Posts: 42930 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
My point is. A lot of money went into this work plus a lot was/is at stake. Why have a "nobody" pen his name as lead author? The big guns were involved. Close to hundred authors. Henn, Haak, Wells, Tishkoff etc. notable absent was Paabo and his nemesis Babujani.
Plus the man is "not" a geneticist but a computer scientist/ technician . I don't get their strategy.
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: But this is fascinating. Doing a search on the famed Dr Iosif Lazaridis on LinkedIn I came across a piece of information that blew my mind. May be someone can help me out?
I was shocked to know Lazaridis is NOT a geneticist. He is neither a anthropologist, archeologist nor Historian. His undergrad is from Greece. MS and PhD here in the US. His degrees are all in …..Computer Science!!!!!!! Yet he is the LEAD author on such a ground breaking piece of work. Haak, Henn etc and the like “co-authored”. The man is a “numbers cruncher”. He has no formal training in genetics or any of the related disciplines.!!! In fact he was out of work until he got this job about 14mths ago. Something does not add up. Anyone? Did he sleep his way to the top?
Probably not. If the research is sound it will be published if it agrees with the status quo.
.
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posted
@ Lioness. Selective Picture spamming does not change the facts. He! He!
You do know it was Henn who stated that the Luyha are ancestral to Amazigh?
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: @ Lioness. Selective Picture spamming does not change the facts. He! He!
You do know it was Henn who stated that the Luyha are ancestral to Amazigh?
yes, the pictures don't contradict what you are saying, that is what I am trying to show Clyde
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Albanian geology is most famous for the occurrence of contrasting ophiolites of Jurassic age. The country is sub-divided into three main geotectonic units. Those in the west (i.e. Sazani, Ionian, Kruja, Krasta–Cukali and the Albanian Alps) relate to the western margin of Apulia, effectively part of North Africa from Early Mesozoic time onwards. In the east is the Korabi zone, interpreted as a microcontinent located further northeast within Neotethys. Between the two is the Mirdita zone, dominated by two contrasting Jurassic ophiolites: the ‘Western-type’ ophiolite and the ‘Eastern-type’ ophiolite.Posts: 2021 | From: Miami | Registered: Aug 2014
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
But weren't you so in love with Lazaridis when you did view him thru the lens of DNAtribes? You love his EEF and Basal Europeans even tho they were, and remain, purely hypothetical "populations," a computer scientist's statistic invention.
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posted
I think you are mis-understanding. I am still in love with the Lazaridis paper my man. Just as I am with DNATribes. What I am saying is Lazaridis may be penned as the lead author but obviously he is NOT.
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: But weren't you so in love with Lazaridis when you did view him thru the lens of DNAtribes? You love his EEF and Basal Europeans even tho they were, and remain, purely hypothetical "populations," a computer scientist's statistic invention.
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posted
One more class for today before I wrap-up. To the lurkers. This analysis uses ChromoPaint which is similar to TreeMix but not as informative.
Any questions hit me up. Copy and paste from this pdf was a problem. It was not clean.
As I said…Africans owned Southern Europe. Note Africans in Iberia, Greece, Sardinia and Persia. Don’t believe me ..read on.
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A Genetic Atlas of Human Admixture History Garrett Hellenthal, Feb2014
S7.1 \Middle East + North Africa" Because we observed similar admixture in many of our near Eastern groups, and these groups were difficult to separate, we performed an Middle East + North Africa analysis" to clear up admixture signals, for example from African sources, that may be obscured in the \full analysis". To represent a local source, we retained the Saudi as a potential donor, as this population had less evidence of African admixture than the other Middle East and North Africa populations in the \full analysis" results (African admixture into the Saudi Arabians is inferred only as the second strongest signaled event in the full analysis). Here and for the remainder of this Note we compare our \regional" and \full" analysis results for consistency of events detected. Our \Middle East + North Africa" analysis shows, in all 10 groups analysed (Figure S16), admixture within the past millenium involving a sub-Saharan African source (always inferred West African, except in the UAE and Iranian samples where it is \BantuKenya"), and a West Eurasian source, always involving an excess of copying from the Saudi group, and inferred to share the largest number of haplotypes (among the allowed donors) with either the Saudi population, or one of the most nearby included donors (e.g. the Cypriot population). These events, and donor groups, closely match those of the original \full" analysis (see main text) and all date con_dence intervals overlap.
Admixture fractions vary from 3% (in the Iranians) to 21% (in the Moroccans), again agreeing well with the full analysis (see main text). Apart from these strongest events, we infer a complex history for seven groups, three with multi-way admixture and four with admixture at more than one time. Encouragingly, for six of these groups the conclusion is identical to that in the original \full" analysis. In these cases (although there are small di_erences in particular groups chosen within small geographical regions), dates and groups involved are generally highly consistent with the full analysis (e.g. dating con_dence intervals always overlap). The only exception are the Tunisians, who almost but did not quite reach the cutoff (showing p = 0:05) for admixture at more than one time in the full analysis, and in this regional analysis show p = 0:03. Conversely For the groups with multi-way admixture, the Iranians show a signal very similar to the \full" analysis signal discussed above. The Syrians and the Bedouin both seem to have signals indicating 3-way admixture between sub-Saharan Africans, groups to their south (e.g. sharing haplotypes with the Saudis) and groups to their immediate north and west (e.g. sharing haplotypes with the Cypriots and Georgians), and with the nature of this event similar for the full and regional analyses. Finally, one di_erence with the \full" analysis is that we now fail to verify evidence of multiple events in the Jordanians. Although we still _nd the African admixture event in this group, we no longer see evidence of a second event inferred to involve haplotypes shared with other Middle Eastern groups (excluded in the new painting) and groups to the north (e.g. sharing haplotypes with the Georgians) and dated to the range 1050-1330CE, perhaps because we do not allow these groups as donors in the regional analysis.
S7.3 \Mediterranean" Similar to the \Middle East + North Africa" analysis, some of the \Mediterranean" populations were di_cult for _neSTRUCTURE to separate, and were frequently used as donors to one another in inferred admixture events.We also wished to investigate whether the admixture into these populations involves DNA contributions from a sub-Saharan African source versus from Middle Eastern (or North African) sources. For this reason, we performed a \regional" analysis and excluded Middle Eastern and North African populations as donors, apart from the Saudi population and the more genetically distinct Cypriots, as in the \Middle East + North Africa" analysis. Figure S17 shows the results of this analysis. *******Results for West Sicily, Greece and Spain were almost unchanged in all respects from the \full" analysis, and suggest DIRECT West African DNA dating to around 1220CE in the West Sicilians, the Greek signal discussed in the main text, and complex admixture at more than one time in the Spanish that is difficult to precisely characterise.
Recent and ancient events in the Spanish both involve West African haplotypes, inferred (at least for the more recent event) to occur within a source population with additional ancestry related to present-day Europeans, and for the older event in the \full" analysis to also involve haplotypes carried by North Africans (the Mozabites), EXCLUDED in the regional analysis. The other inferred admixing group has haplotypes shared with present-day Spanish Basques. This signal suggests admixture might be continuous and involve interactions with north and sub-Saharan Africans over AT LEAST the past _2000 years. In addition, we see strong evidence (p < 0:01) that admixture also involves multiple distinct groups in both cases, implying yet more complexity in the genetic history of this Spanish sample, which our method is unable to interpret fully. For instance our curves (available for both types of analysis at http://admixturemap.paintmychromosomes.com/)show segments of DNA shared with Basque, Tuscan and Yoruban are all negatively correlated at short genetic distances, implying these three types of haplotypes are carried on different ancestral backgrounds, in addition to (and not captured by) our two-date inference. For East Sicily, Sardinia and South Italy, a second event was inferred by either the full or regional analysis.
from Kenya are inferred as most over-represented, rather than West African haplotypes), and the signal dates back at least to 186AD, pre-dating the Arab slave trade. This might infer continuous-type admixture, or might (given the separation in inferred dates) reect a distinct earlier event involving a population with some African ancestry. In Sardinians, admixture is inferred at exactly the same time (630AD) in both analyses, and there is one very similar inferred event involving one population from North Africa or the Mediterranean. Speci_cally, this group is inferred as most similar to Cyprus, but with additional West African haplotypes, in the regional analysis, and as showing high levels of haplotype sharing with each of sub-Saharan (east) Africa, North Africa, and the Middle East in the full analysis { note North Africa and the Middle East cannot act as donors in the \Mediterranean" analysis. The other group is inferred to be from Europe, sharing haplotypes with people from Wales, Italy, France and Spain. .
Overall, both the the \full" and \Mediterranean" analyses suggest very complex genetic exchange across the Mediterranean over 2000 years or more, also involving people from sub-Saharan African groups, with multiple events inferred in 4 of 6 groups though with dates and details differing between groups.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
The above is a little deep. I did the heavy lifting by bolding. Anyone wants me to break it down. Hit me up?
Listen up. I am not hating on Lazaridis. More power to him. I am in a related field of work. Albeit I am no longer a lab rat. But the man seemed to have been out of work for awhile then suddenly appeared about 14months ago at Harvard to “lead” such an important piece of work. Sides the paper involved actual genetic testing on “live” ancient population albeit existing dataset from the literature was used. So it was more than just numbers crunching. IIRC actual analysis was done on Loshcbour and Stuugart woman. La Brana, Otzi etc was from the existing literature.
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
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quote:Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate: I don't want to be too hard on you but since you asked for it it's all bullshit. Hebrews are great people and have a great history but it's not our history. We are not descendants of Abraham. We have our own history, spiritual traditions and cultures in Africa which have nothing do to with Hebrews, Jewish, Christians (European/Jews) or Muslims(Arabs).
I never said we are descendants of Abraham nor did I say it was "our" history. It was a theory and I wanted you to critique. But you should at least note that those two religions you listed have ancestry in Africa. Not only that but Africans played a vital part in the history of those religions; whether the early people of those religions were African or not.
It's true that there's some influence of Ancient Egypt on Hebrew people, but on the religious angle Hebrew people made something completely different than what existed in Ancient Egypt or even Ancient Greece or Romes (before constantine). Judaism, and it's children, Christianity and Islam, were all about destroying "pagan" religions to replace it with new doctrines almost completely disconnected from what existed previously on fundamental levels.
Based on current genetic and archaeological studies Ancient Egyptians seems to be mostly black Africans but still more research needs to be done. Nevertheless, black Africans from ancient times (common origin in Eastern Africa, Green Sahara period) had no doubt a lot of influence on Ancient Egypt culturally, religiously and in its peopling.
There's no such thing as a "black African". In the context of Africa, there are only Africans & non-Africans. You know what the non-Africans look like.
It's silly to use a stupid term such as "black African" when the continent consists of 90% (give or take) so-called "black people" .
Posts: 117 | From: Earth | Registered: Feb 2014
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quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor:
quote:Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate:
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor:
quote:Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate: Yeah, some racist people on this site want to use the modern Eurasian admixtures in Horners and NorthEastern Africa (like the Semitic/ethio-semitic admixtures and Arab Muslim admixtures) to claim Ancient Egypt.
But in reality the Eurasian admixtures in Horners and Northeastern Africa is ***RECENT*** admixtures. After the foundation of the Ancient Egyptian empire. And much after the Naqada, Badarian, Tasian and Green Saharan cultures which form the basis of Ancient Egyptian people and culture.
Go to the Horn and tell them this. See how you get laughed at!
I won't. This is common knowledge (both genetically and historically) and since many people in Eastern Africa are Muslim converts they like to trace their genealogy to Saudi Arabia (or the middle east in general).
Of course you won't because it's common knowledge that what you type is outrageous rubbish, all picked out of your behind.
What you appearently still don't get is the people from the Mid East are a subset of these East Africans. Not the other way around. It was shown to you on many levels and in many ways. (Archeological, genetically, linguistically, historically, anthropologically).
In your mind Mid Easterns popped-out from nowhere.
Look at his username, he's obviously connected to ancient Egyptian religion/belief systems. Many Africans who are "kemetian fanboys" (for the lack of a better word) tend to go haywire if someone suggests that there were African people elsewhere in the surrounding regions. The thought of Africans being the originators of the Hebrew faith/Islam etc is just too much.
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You do know that Syria has had a lot of slave input from (east) Europe, don't you?
Nobody want's to talk about the 2 millon (approx) white slaves brought into North-Africa either. It's like it didn't happen at all. They hate the fact that the Ottomans didn't discriminate when it came to the acquisition of slaves.
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quote:Originally posted by Snakepit1: Look at his username, he's obviously connected to ancient Egyptian religion/belief systems. [/QB]
For the record, I'm not a practitioner of any religious or spiritual belief system. My interest in Ancient Egypt and African History is academic. It's a hobby. My id name is based on how AEian kings would call themselves, in one of their various regnal/throne names, like Amenhemhat meaning 'Amun is foremost'.
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So what you are saying is that the Minoan people were heavily influenced by Africans. Correct me if I'm wrong.
I never said "heavily" but obviously there was influence. There is still debate as to how much influence from Africa Minoan culture had, but as has been noted in this forum you see certain things here and there.
quote:Originally posted by Barachit: Blessedbyhorus, i dont know... the pictures appear for me. Go to pinterest.com or flick.com and type phoenician to get the pictures.
^^Statue of a seated god Hazor Late Canaanite period, 15th-13th century
^^Statue of the storm god poised to strike Hazor Late Canaanite period, 15th-13th century BCE
^^Weather and War God, Baal Bronze; Syria or Anatolia, 1400 - 1200 B. C.
^^Hadad - God of the wind,the rain,the storms phoenician daity
^^Fragment of a Phoenician - style ivory of a bearded head found in an Assyrian palace Iraq Museum
Already seen the photos. I believe you fixed them. Anyways nice pics.
Posts: 1891 | From: NY | Registered: Sep 2014
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SONS OF HAM; 1)CUSH/KUSH=NILOTES(NILO-SAHARAN) 2)MIZRAIMS=PYGMIES & WEST AFRICANS(Niger congo A) 3)PHUT=KHOISAN 4)CANAAN=BANTUS(Niger congo B) Actually these are also the four main languages spoken in Africa.Considering the fact Afro-asiatic e.g Chadic,Amazigh,Cushitic are NILOTIC CONTINUITY.a proven fact. SONS OF KUSH(NILOTES) 1)SEBA=Maa-speakers(sabaeans) e.g maasai,samburu,lotuko group 2)HAVILLAH=Tigray and Tigrinya group 3)SABTAH=Nuer,dinka,shilluk,anuak,luo peoples group 4)RAAMAH=Kalenjin,datooga & Omotic group. 5)SABTECHA=Nuba,Turkana,karamajong,Toposa group. 6)NIMROD=Dravidians. SONS OF RAAMAH(proto kalenjin rmT) 1)SHEBA=Oromo 2)DEDAN=Somal
Posts: 306 | From: Kenya | Registered: Dec 2013
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quote: The Phoenician civilization flourished along the eastern coastlines of the Mediterranean Sea (the present-day coasts of Syria, Lebanon, and northern Israel) from approximately 2000 BC to 500 BC
"The Phoenicians likely referred to themselves as Canaanites."
The ancient Greeks were the originators of the term “Phoenicia,” which derives from an ancient Greek word (phoinikes) for the color purple.
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Something interesting someone posted on this exact same thread on another site.
5,000-Year-Old Egyptian Beer Vessels Unearthed In Tel Aviv
quote:TEL AVIV, ISRAEL—Fragments of pottery basins used by Egyptians to make beer 5,000 years ago have been unearthed at a construction site in central Tel Aviv. Traces of barley have been found on similar vessels from other sites. Tests should reveal if the containers had been carried from Egypt, or if they had been made locally in the Egyptian style. “This is also the northernmost evidence we have of an Egyptian presence in the Early Bronze Age I,” Diego Barkan, director of the excavation for the Israel Antiquities Authority, told Live Science. “Until now, we were only aware of an Egyptian presence in the northern Negev and southern coastal plain, whereby the northernmost point of Egyptian occupation occurred in Azor.” The excavation also uncovered 17 pits used for agricultural storage during the early Bronze Age, and a 6,000-year-old copper dagger and flint. To read about Egyptian animal mummies, see "Messengers to the Gods."
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Found an interesting gem. Though it is a late depiction...
Hannibal (atop the Elephant) and Scipio who is pointing at him.
Weird that Hannibal is the only dark skinned one. "The scene, which is based on Livy's account of the second Punic War in his History of Rome (XXX, 33, 4-16), depicts the last battle pitting Scipio and the Roman army against the Carthaginians. Elephants in the Carthaginian army's front lines are charging the Romans, toppling men and horses. On the left, an elephant startled by the blare of a trumpet and a horn turns on its own camp. In the foreground, Scipio, wearing a starry blue mantle, leads his men, urging them to push back the enemy with swords and javelins.The border along the sides and lower edge features a broad garland of flowers, fruits, small animals, and frolicking children. The upper part consists of an architrave, probably to comply with the dimensions requested by the first patron to commission a tapestry on this theme, the Maréchal de Saint-André, whose arms grace the upper corners." http://www.louvre.fr/en/oeuvre-notices/tapestry-history-scipio-battle-zamaPosts: 1891 | From: NY | Registered: Sep 2014
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I know you are getting more and more interested in this topic, but I think you'll find this interesting.
quote:Population means from Jordanian Bedouins (Henke and Disi, 1980) provided low probabilities (under 0.500) for either group but high typicalities (over 0.900). The most complete skull from a Phoenician sample from Israel (Smith et al., 1990) provided a ‘Black male’ result with high probability but low typicality. Probabilities ranging between 0.600 and 1.000 in the category ‘Black’, with typicalities mainly under 0.400 were present in Punic skulls from Carthage (Bertholon and Chantre, 1913), Neolithic and proto-historic skulls from Sahara and sub-Saharan Africa (data collected by Chamla, 1968), and in modern African skulls measured by Barras de Aragón (1911).
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^I did not see this post by you before, but thanks. It's certainly interesting.
Posts: 22235 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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The painted depiction seems off. It is very doubtful Hannibal would have been atop an elephant during battle. Elephants were a front line weapon released early. Hannibal would have lost command and control had he been charging in front at the opening of a battle. At Zama the ROmans defeated the opening elephant attack by creating open lanes for the animals to charge down, after which they were slaughtered towards the rear. Hannibal would have been dead or captured within the first 20-30 minutes of Zama. He would not have been on place to control his 2 lines of infantry, plus cavalry, and hold fast the last line, the veterans of Italy for the final showdown.
It is a good painting nevertheless, raising interesting questions about Hannibal and his multi-ethnic army, including his African troops, and is an artist's depiction- not a military history. It is no worse than many other battle paintings.
Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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"No reference is made to the Indians, Negroes, Mongolians, Malayans, Chinese, Japanese, etc. The author names only the peoples within his sphere of knowledge."- Paul Heinisch, History of the Old TestamentPosts: 949 | From: England | Registered: Oct 2015
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: End of rant from the crazy uncle…..lol! I am anxious to see what DNATribes have up their sleeves for OCT2014. This is the first time they are two weeks late.
They are late because of you. Europeans do not like to see their research seriously analyzed as it relates to Black people because then the lies are made visible.
Every since the late 19th Century when Afro-Americans began to write on the unity of Black people , Europeans have been trying to separate Asian Blacks from Africans, and Australian Blacks from Blacks in Africa, and Blacks on the Asian Islands and the Asian mainland. Afro-American researchers like W.E.B. Dubois, J.A. Rogers and John Jackson saw through the lies and published the TRUTH.
ES is a very influential site. Here people debate the relevant issues of archaeology, genetics and anthropology. Although most of the old timers are Egyptocentric, due to Marc, Mike, Ironlion and myself, researchers like yourself have began to look below the surface of new genetic research and shown that the supplemental data, often tells a different story than the story told in the main article. You have been the most vocal "oldtimer" to blast through the propaganda and tell the truth.
Amun and you have especially promoted the DNATribes material which shows the African origin of the Egyptians. Due to lioness, you have to keep up on your game so the resulting debates make it even more clear the connections between African and Black populations in Asia.
Professional geneticist like Keita, help support the status quo (e.g., the myth of the Afro-Asiatic languages). It took people like the posters here at ES to question some of the genetics research and made it available in a way laymen could understand.
Now that DNATribes has been notified how you are making your own interpretations of their material, in a valid and reliable way they are trying to find a way to publish their newsletter without giving data that support Afrocentrism.
I am very proud of you xyyman. You had your doubts about the research of Mike and I, but you kept an open mind and now you are a major advocate of TRUTH.
Keep up the good work. Don't let the Haters turn you around.
Aluta continua...the struggle continues
. [/QB][/QUOTE]
Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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Cass/ - thanks for the map! Note it includes areas north of the Black Sea, where Torah's Eden & Plato's Atlantis originated, before the Crimean Karaites/Khazharim/Qashrut/Kosher/Oroan/Horites/Hebrews translocated to Chaldea and then Canaan.
"The Phoenician civilization flourished along the eastern coastlines of the Mediterranean Sea (the present-day coasts of Syria, Lebanon, and northern Israel) from approximately 2000 BC to 500 BC"
The name refers to the commodity traded, paint-dye.
"The Phoenicians likely referred to themselves as Canaanites."
Only those in Canaan. They were all over Europe & Asia & Africa, trading mostly pigments since very ancient times. The "Phoenician Civilization" is just where a bunch of wealthy traders built their home ports.
"The ancient Greeks were the originators of the term “Phoenicia,” which derives from an ancient Greek word (phoinikes) for the color purple. "
False. "Phoenician" refers to the trade of paints - inks, including ochre red & yellow, manganese black, murine purple, murine blue, oak gall black, gold powder etc. It links to phonetic (letters from zodiac symbols) since ink was used. It derives from Paleo-Pygmy ebembe (fingerpaint) used in ceremonial dances, in (wood) red, soil (white, black), blue (mud). Among Out Of The Rainforest (OOTR) people, the open-sky colors became popular (orange, yellow, blue, purple). Ink traders were the Industrial Captains for a very long time, and of course developed trade in all materials.
ebembe/pomp/primp/pimple/pamphlet/papyrus/paper
Phoenician did NOT originally mean purple in any language, it meant applying pigment to communicate, to pen ink, usually ceremonially. Royal purple was simply super-famous during the Greek age. - - -
Please see Brian Pellar's work on how the Phonetic/Font/Phoenix/Vinica script derived from 11/22 original zodiac signs eg. ♉ Taurus = A + b, ♈ Aries = g + D, etc. to compare with your own determinations, which appear to match with a later 12/24 zodiac phase. I think zo.diac was originally xy.n.duix (sky.points) pronounced "shine.dext" and symbolized as a sky.deus.
quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: BBH here is an image of a dark skinned Bedouin that seems to have vanished from the internet, thankfully I saved it to my archives thank god...
Ill see if I can find Museum info/dating on it..
(Edit) Lower part of kneeling Beduin KhM 3897b TILE; RAMESSES III/USERMAATRE-MERIAMUN
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