quote:Originally posted by *Dalia*: I would never dare to speak in the name of all Germans, I think it goes without saying that this would be silly.
Personally, I don't know any German who supports Mubarak. I read some newspaper articles speaking about the possibility of him going to Germany, and the comments underneath the articles were 90% disapproving. Those who support Mubarak are in most cases Islamophobes and/or people afraid of the Muslim Brotherhood obtaining too much power.
I'm relieved to see this post. It's good to have some balance.
I get that he's an old man, and he's been poorly, and he looks very sorry for himself, but...
TL, if/when Mugabe finally gets ousted, will you be inviting him too?
William tsk-tsk tut-tut Hague said in Parliament today that the call has come from Cairo to freeze the assets of a number of ex Egyptian ministers. Didn't say who.
Posts: 1678 | From: New Egypt Forum - http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Dec 2009
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quote:Originally posted by metinoot: Netanyahu hasn't had a call returned from Obama in six months. Netanyahu cannot get Obama on the phone nor can he get Tantawi on the phone.
Netanyahu had 5 minutes in which Tantawi told him off that by speaking with him he looks bad in the eyes of Egyptians.
How on earth do you know this stuff?!!
Posts: 1678 | From: New Egypt Forum - http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Dec 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: personal past time to go around and look up the hems of men in Egypt?
You made visits to Egypt without your ex because he refused to ever go back, he's not seen his own daughter since she was a year old.
As for 100% Egyptian cotton underwear, most of the best quality cotton is exported and what there is here is not only boxers, there are a wide range of mens undies, so still a load of bull as normal.
How do YOU know the man in the pic is not blind and is probably ex govt? Still not answered that one yet.
I hope you get a v-day call from someone, hasn't your children called you lately? [/QB][/QUOTE] spoke to my daughter this morning and my son on Friday. I speak to my kids regular, do you remember you even had one?
How is your daughter? Did you even think to get her away from a country in the middle of a revolution or was she one of the many street kids in the square?
Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by metinoot: How do you know?
a) Gallabeyas tend to be a bit see-through, particularly when the sun is shining. b) Guys often lift their gallabeyas – because they are using a water hose, or because they are peeing somewhere etc., and then you can often see their underpants. c) People hang out their laundry for everyone to see.
quote:Originally posted by metinoot: Have you ever bought underwear for men in Egypt?
No.
quote:Originally posted by metinoot: Is it a personal past time to go around and look up the hems of men in Egypt?
Thanks for the laugh! I just imagined myself walking around and lifting men's gallabeyas … "Exuse me, ya hagg, I Just wanna have a look at your underwear!" Posts: 2803 | Registered: Feb 2007
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quote:Originally posted by metinoot: Netanyahu hasn't had a call returned from Obama in six months. Netanyahu cannot get Obama on the phone nor can he get Tantawi on the phone.
Netanyahu had 5 minutes in which Tantawi told him off that by speaking with him he looks bad in the eyes of Egyptians.
How on earth do you know this stuff?!!
My ex told me. Its been on Arab satellite TV, he watches it with his roommate and the dude emphasized what my ex stated.
I think its been in Egyptians news papers as well. But you'd have to read Arabic to know.
My ex has a distant relation, possibly a cousin of his father's who is on the transitory council too. An old general who doesn't work within the Ministry of Interior, he hasn't been home in a month. He won't be home for several more months, and his wife is in a frenzy going back and forth between Shebin and Cairo with his food and clothes.
Not that this relative will give us current inside information, he's not sleeping every night. Nor is he staying in the same hotel room every night, nor is he at the same phone number every day, he doesn't have a mobile phone because that would be to glitzy.
My ex wasn't exactly supportive of the demonstrators until a relative was appointed to the transitory council. Now he's paying attention and is up until 6am every night watching the news. He'll call me in a few hours to give me an update.
Posts: 2280 | Registered: Oct 2009
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quote:Originally posted by metinoot: How do you know?
a) Gallabeyas tend to be a bit see-through, particularly when the sun is shining. b) Guys often lift their gallabeyas – because they are using a water hose, or because they are peeing somewhere etc., and then you can often see their underpants. c) People hang out their laundry for everyone to see.
quote:Originally posted by metinoot: Have you ever bought underwear for men in Egypt?
No.
quote:Originally posted by metinoot: Is it a personal past time to go around and look up the hems of men in Egypt?
Thanks for the laugh! I just imagined myself walking around and lifting men's gallabeyas … "Exuse me, ya hagg, I Just wanna have a look at your underwear!"
I dare ya!!!! Posts: 1283 | From: Cairo | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Shanta Gdeeda (was Qadeema): Dudes - can you take the boxer shorts and gigolo discussions to either the bitching thread or the love and marriage section? Shokran.
soz shanta
sono take it to the bitching thread get some work done, or go play on the highway.
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Gdeeda (was Qadeema): Dudes - can you take the boxer shorts and gigolo discussions to either the bitching thread or the love and marriage section? Shokran.
soz shanta
sono take it to the bitching thread get some work done, or go play on the highway.
posted
The 82-year-old former head of state is in a 'severe psychological condition and is declining treatment despite his illness' but he is not in a coma, the pro-government Al-Gomhuria daily said, citing sources close to Mubarak.
posted
Makes you wonder if the house arrest rumours are true and this is just some excuse for naffing off with his loot.
Posts: 1678 | From: New Egypt Forum - http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Dec 2009
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As Egypt’s first wall of shame list, The Arabic Network for Human Rights Information (ANHRI) launched a new website announcing names of public figures who stood against the Egyptian revolution that forced former president Hosni Mubarak out of the country. The website lists artists, TV news commentators, sports figures, actors and others. The title of the new website el-3ar means shame.
The ANHRI, an organization that defends freedom of information and freedom of speech in the MENA region said they started this list ”to expose where people stood during the time of the revolution and to prevent them from diluting the public and betraying the national conciseness.”
Being with freedom of expression and criticizing these figures is not a paradox for AHNRI.
“We are with freedom of expression and with people taking sides but to accuse others of being foreign agents and accuse them of betrayal is a mean to oppress others who have anti-dictatorship stands,” AHNRI said in a press release.
The rights group added that many of these public icons changed their stances immediately after the regime fell.
“Changing views that quick is disgraceful,” AHNRI said.
The infamous list contains cinema icons Adel Imam, Yosra and Elham Shahin, who according to ANHRI, were fierce defenders of Mubarak and his regime.
Adel Imam called the protests “absurdness coming from outsiders who are not related to Egypt.” Imam is a regional icon in comedy and acted in pro-government films that demonized Islamic groups.
Actress Yosra, who partnered with Imam in many films, said she “didn’t find any thing negative with the regime’s policies for the last 30 years.”
On the media list was Ans Al Fiki, the former minister of media, currently under house arrest, who led the poor and misleading coverage of the state owned TV stations where the numbers of protesters were cut drastically in his news reports and the theory of protesters being foreign agents, Israeli and American, working to serve foreign agenda originated.
Also landing on the list is former head of the press syndicate, Makram Mohamed Ahmed, who many journalists during the protests asked for his resignation as well. Many journalists in Egypt are not happy with Makram and have accused him of allaying the regime on their expense.
Most of the media names on the list are either working for the country’s state TV or the privately owned Al Mehwar. Al Mehwar channel was met with a massive upheaval of criticism for its coverage of the protests. In one of its shows, they hosted a woman who identified herself as a journalist and said that she was one of the young people protesting in Tahrir and that she had been trained in the US to protest and was paid for it.
Many loved sports stars had taken Muabrak’s side in the media during the unrest including Egypt’s national soccer coach Hassan Shehata and Zamalek club stars Hossam and Ibrahim Hassan, and Egypt goal keeper star Essam Al-Hadary as well as Mido, Egypt’s star who also plays for the Zamalek club.
The list is being updated and more names will be added according to the website.
I have no idea if there is any existing political group or figure behind this, just sharing it for information.
Posts: 5593 | From: Egypt | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
Is there any truth to the rumor going around that Israel actually were the ones to cut off all internet access in Egypt? At least four of my husband's friends, none of them friends with each other, have told him this.
If it is true, I have to wonder why? I mean that was what cinched the deal and since they loved Mubarak why would they do that?
Posts: 1808 | From: USA | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by doodlebug: Is there any truth to the rumor going around that Israel actually were the ones to cut off all internet access in Egypt? At least four of my husband's friends, none of them friends with each other, have told him this.
If it is true, I have to wonder why? I mean that was what cinched the deal and since they loved Mubarak why would they do that?
There have been more rumors going around since this started than you could shake a stick at.
To me, that one doesn't sound believable at all.
People love a good conspiracy theory. Unfortunately there usually isn't a way to prove any of them.
Also, there are quite a few Muslims who would love to smear the name of Israel at any chance given. *shrug*
Posts: 1283 | From: Cairo | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by doodlebug: Is there any truth to the rumor going around that Israel actually were the ones to cut off all internet access in Egypt? At least four of my husband's friends, none of them friends with each other, have told him this.
If it is true, I have to wonder why? I mean that was what cinched the deal and since they loved Mubarak why would they do that?
There have been more rumors going around since this started than you could shake a stick at.
To me, that one doesn't sound believable at all.
People love a good conspiracy theory. Unfortunately there usually isn't a way to prove any of them.
Also, there are quite a few Muslims who would love to smear the name of Israel at any chance given. *shrug*
That's what I figured but thought I'd run it across you all. I hope the gun shots are getting few and far between for you these days!
Posts: 1808 | From: USA | Registered: Aug 2006
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posted
They are for me, not sure about in other areas. I'm really thankful it's settled down. I think it was really starting to wear on me.
Anyways, as to the rumor, someone else might have a different opinion, that's just mine. Posts: 1283 | From: Cairo | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by doodlebug: Is there any truth to the rumor going around that Israel actually were the ones to cut off all internet access in Egypt? At least four of my husband's friends, none of them friends with each other, have told him this.
If it is true, I have to wonder why? I mean that was what cinched the deal and since they loved Mubarak why would they do that?
There have been more rumors going around since this started than you could shake a stick at.
To me, that one doesn't sound believable at all.
People love a good conspiracy theory. Unfortunately there usually isn't a way to prove any of them.
Also, there are quite a few Muslims who would love to smear the name of Israel at any chance given. *shrug*
That's what I figured but thought I'd run it across you all. I hope the gun shots are getting few and far between for you these days!
Its been part of Mubarak's PR plan all these years to blame Israel for his bad choices. Bad habits die hard, and administrative officials within the Ministry of Information do not want to take blame for a directive handed down from Mubarak.
The way the "Internet backbone" works is not decided by neighboring nations. Each local telecommunications company and supporting government has to manage telecommunication infastructure on its own accord.
Israel doesn't own or administer Egyptians ISPs (Internet Service Providers) which distributes bandwidth on existing fiber optic and ISDN cable.
Israel does share a Satellite with Egypt for its international calls, some of which are routed over the internet. But its up to the nation's government to shut down ISPs and Mobile phone networks.
Posts: 2280 | Registered: Oct 2009
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quote:Originally posted by doodlebug: Is there any truth to the rumor going around that Israel actually were the ones to cut off all internet access in Egypt? At least four of my husband's friends, none of them friends with each other, have told him this.
If it is true, I have to wonder why? I mean that was what cinched the deal and since they loved Mubarak why would they do that?
I would say it's rubbish.
From what I understand, the ISPs simply removed the DNS look ups (which probably simply meant turning their DNS servers off).
Internet connections were actually LIVE but whatever you typed in didn't go anywhere because the browsers didn't know where to look.
Initially, people were accessing Facebook and Twitter via proxies, but these gradually got blocked. Some people started using the direct numbers and they started to get cute enough to block those, so I am given to understand that facebook actually changed it's IP a few times to give people a chance. So, only one thing for it, the 'kill' switch. Remove the indices.
If that is meaningless to you, picture it this way:
The internet is like a huge giant warehouse of files just heaped around the place. Each pile has a number called the IP which tells a computer where to go look.
Each ISP connecting to the internet has a lookup table which tell it which heap of files to go to.
So, for example, there's a pile of files sitting here: 128.242.240.52
So if you know the number, you can type it straight in where you normally type the web address and go straight there (try it )
However, most people don't like numbers too well and sometimes the location of the pile of files moves around.
So, instead, they tell you - when you get online, type in www.twitter.com - your ISPs DNS servers index will then say - aha, if you want twitter, you have to go to that heap over there 128.242.240.52 and take you there. And if the files move, the index will get updated so it will go to the new numbers. If you remove the index, it won't have a clue.
Hope that helps someone understand DNS servers!
Posts: 5593 | From: Egypt | Registered: Dec 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Sashyra8: Was very moved when i saw on TV news Egyptians themselves taking care in cleaning Tahrir Sq,including scrubbing the stone panels under some statue off grafitti.
Guess why they did it - because the whole world was watching. Unfortunately CNN and BBC World did not step into living quarters in Cairo and showed the many still existing piles of rubbish.
They did it because they made the mess and Egyptians usually clean up their own mess.
Moahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!
So let me get this straight. All the 30 years Mubarak was in the office people cleaned up their sh#t?????
Next you will tell me that all the Egyptians who threw trash on the sidewalks, out of the cars and out of the windows did so because they were depressed and it was all Mubarak's fault?
Ayisha, where are you living??? That country is a dirty filthy mess and no one can argue about it.
It takes a complete change of mentality of the whole nation to be cleaning up after themselves so they can be proud of their own country. A few hundreds or thousand people on FB won't do it - EVERY single Egyptian has to contribute to a clean, safe and healthy environment and unfortunately this is not the case but as you say, Ayisha, you know better.... you live in Egypt, right.
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
Give the people a chance! How do you know they won't?
Someone I know (Egyptian) once asked another why he was throwing rubbish on the street and the answer was 'to upset the government'. It's a tiny act of rebellion.
Yes, there's a long way to go. And right now, I'm analogizing the situation as similar to when in the UK 17 or 18 year old boys pass their driving tests, then go straight out and hare around the lanes at top speed, then prang their car after a month or so (or within a few days in many cases) and then learn to drive more sensibly.
But there is good stuff coming out. Yesterday, hearing horse and camel owners discussing how to bring animal rights in, seeing things like Egypt Vision 2030, and apparently there was an "Egypt Tomorrow" conference yesterday which I'm trying to find out more about.
Posts: 5593 | From: Egypt | Registered: Dec 2005
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quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: And Mr. Mubarak is very much respected and welcomed in Germany
Is he?
Yes, he is and so is his wife. Funny to realize you had to google to check out the fact for yourself.
Germany had excellent relations with Mubarak, so did France, Italy, Russia and other nations. Why you think Merkel, Sarkozy not even Obama directly demanded Mubarak to step down immediately?
And Suzanne Mubarak received Honorary Citizenship of the Universität Stuttgart (FOR non-German folks: the city of Stuttgart is located in Germany) for her social commitment and her dedication to the rights of children and women - SURPRISE SURPRISE. Bet you didn't know that!!!
Please, Dalia, feel free and google the info yourself cause you won't believe me anyway. Yeah things happening in Germany but you can't know that because you don't live here.
The Mubaraks did many good things in their own country. They fought against FGM (one of your favorite subjects here on ES isn't that so), overpopulation, spousal abuse, women and children rights, human trafficking, equal job opportunities (yes Mrs. Mubarak supported fully that women can work too!), illiteracy (libraries sprung up) among other things.
Suzanne Mubarak was the President of the Advisory Board of the National Council for Motherhood and Childhood in Egypt and was also President and Founder of the Suzanne Mubarak Women's International Peace Movement
among other important social activities. Please contact me if you want a complete list of accomplishments.
Under the Mubaraks tourism was flourishing. 15 million foreign tourists alone in the year 2010, wow!!! See how many foreign investors spent their money on Egyptian holiday resorts and they are still growing as I type this. Millions of jobs got created during his presidency.
Of course like the rest of the ladies here you have to jump on the bandwagon and have to denounce Mubarak as a 'tyrant'.
I am wondering why you would live in a country where another Saddam Hussein (that's with who you basically compare Mubarak to, isn't that so) reigns and brings so much misery upon it's people, why would you stay in this country for what - 8 years - and support its economy?
Truth is without him you would have had way more Islamist extremist attacks on the soil which would have hurt the economy and its citizens and you on the other hand would have deserted Egypt long time ago.
See what you have now with a military junta for the next six months and a government who will have trouble to satisfy quickly the visions of the #jan25 movement.
IMHO Egypt's population continues to grow and grow and that's the major problem for the country and the living conditions of its people . As I stated in the other - unfortunately locked - thread from 80 million to an estimated 99 million in the year 2020.
Egypt is not a rich country like Saudi Arabia. Even the most democratic president will have no chance to get rid of the overpopulation and will be able to create jobs for every single Egyptian. It's just an impossible thing to do. But people are dreaming and it's a good thing because it creates visions and hopes and at least people will get busy and try to achieve them.
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
You can link to posts in the locked thread from here. Find the post you want to link to, right click the little icon on the left before the word 'posted' (eg on your post above it is a blue arrow, on most posts it is a yellow 'message pad') and you can copy and paste the location into here.
Posts: 5593 | From: Egypt | Registered: Dec 2005
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quote:Originally posted by *Dalia*: I would never dare to speak in the name of all Germans, I think it goes without saying that this would be silly.
Personally, I don't know any German who supports Mubarak. I read some newspaper articles speaking about the possibility of him going to Germany, and the comments underneath the articles were 90% disapproving. Those who support Mubarak are in most cases Islamophobes and/or people afraid of the Muslim Brotherhood obtaining too much power.
Cairo smog must really get on your nerves, haha!!!
Hm, last time I checked Mubarak was indeed a Muslim so it doesn't make sense to offer someone exile who is Muslim when you are oh-so "Islamophobic".
And why would you state "Those who support Mubarak are in most cases Islamophobes and/or people afraid of the Muslim Brotherhood obtaining too much power."???
Are you afraid of the MBs gaining too much power? What if, Dalia???
Mubarak is gone but the MB are meant to stay. Egyptians will decide in a democratic election if they want the MB to rule the country or at least have a strong influence in which direction Egypt will go.
Again Mubarak was respected by other nation's leaders so therefore they don't mind offering him exile. Does the truth not fit into your little box of thinking????
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: Truth is without him you would have had way more Islamist extremist attacks on the soil which would have hurt the economy and its citizens and you on the other hand would have deserted Egypt long time ago.
It is well to remember how Hosni Mubarak came to power: He was vice president when the moderate Anwar Sadat was murdered by Islamic extremists for making peace with Israel.
Posts: 1365 | Registered: Dec 2010
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quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: Truth is without him you would have had way more Islamist extremist attacks on the soil which would have hurt the economy and its citizens and you on the other hand would have deserted Egypt long time ago.
It is well to remember how Hosni Mubarak came to power: He was vice president when the moderate Anwar Sadat was murdered by Islamic extremists for making peace with Israel.
He was shot by 3 soldiers while in a parade.
Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Sashyra8: Was very moved when i saw on TV news Egyptians themselves taking care in cleaning Tahrir Sq,including scrubbing the stone panels under some statue off grafitti.
Guess why they did it - because the whole world was watching. Unfortunately CNN and BBC World did not step into living quarters in Cairo and showed the many still existing piles of rubbish.
They did it because they made the mess and Egyptians usually clean up their own mess.
Moahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!
So let me get this straight. All the 30 years Mubarak was in the office people cleaned up their sh#t?????
You misunderstood what I was saying. In ALL the Egyptian homes I have been it is always clean and immaculate, even though they have very little. Any time we have had people over for food they will ALL contribute to cleaning up (not pot washing), I am talking about where they 'live' and when they visit. IF I or they had a cleaner or someone on hand that was PAID to do that then that's another story. Once rubbish from the homes goes out it is the governments responsibility to dispose of it. For 18 days these people 'lived' in that square, it was their home, and for that they cleaned up after themselves.
quote:Next you will tell me that all the Egyptians who threw trash on the sidewalks, out of the cars and out of the windows did so because they were depressed and it was all Mubarak's fault?
No I wont tell you that.
quote:Ayisha, where are you living??? That country is a dirty filthy mess and no one can argue about it.
I'm not arguing about it, yes this country does need a better rubbish disposal system and recycling, and THAT IS Mubarak's fault.
nevertheless I do hope you have a wonderful holiday in our dirty filthy country.
quote:It takes a complete change of mentality of the whole nation to be cleaning up after themselves so they can be proud of their own country. A few hundreds or thousand people on FB won't do it - EVERY single Egyptian has to contribute to a clean, safe and healthy environment and unfortunately this is not the case but as you say, Ayisha, you know better.... you live in Egypt, right.
Yes a change of mentality comes with hope for the future, no one is saying that a change of mentality is not needed, they have had 30 years of this and I'm sure it took East Germans a bit of time to realize they were free to change too.
A few hundred or thousand people on Facebook ousted a 30 year old destructive (to it's people) regime peacefully, who knows what they can do next. There is now HOPE, there was none before.
Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
Or if you live in the Presidential zone it is lovely and clean all of the time
I remember maybe about 8 years back an Egyptian friend of mine threw litter on the floor (and as a Brit it has been ingrained in me that this is very very wrong) and i was mortified and picked it up. He told me to put it back down as if there is no litter to sweep then many folk would lose their jobs. His theory was others litter dropping kept others in jobs...
All the Egyptian homes I regularly visit are immacualte.
Posts: 11097 | From: Cairo | Registered: May 2008
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quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: Yes, he is and so is his wife. Funny to realize you had to google to check out the fact for yourself.
Who said anything about googling?
I'm in contact with Germans all the time, and everyone I know is happy he is gone and not too fond of the idea of Germany granting exile to a dictator.
The newspaper article I linked to was to give you an idea of what a big number of people is thinking.
I am aware of the fact that there are other opinions out there, but my impression is that those are not the majority.
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: And Suzanne Mubarak received Honorary Citizenship of the Universität Stuttgart (FOR non-German folks: the city of Stuttgart is located in Germany) for her social commitment and her dedication to the rights of children and women - SURPRISE SURPRISE. Bet you didn't know that!!!
So what? That's just politics. There are close ties between Cairo and Stuttgart; the university of Stuttgart is one of the two patron universities of the German university in Cairo.
Do you think that the average German citizen has such a favourable opinion of Suzanne Mubarak, or why did you bring this up at all? I don't really see the point.
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: I am wondering why you would live in a country where another Saddam Hussein (that's with who you basically compare Mubarak to, isn't that so)
Of course like the rest of the ladies here you have to jump on the bandwagon and have to denounce Mubarak as a 'tyrant'.
Sorry, but this is getting ridiculous. It would be nice if you could stop making things up, drop the aggressive attitude and the ad hominem attacks and have a respectful exchange of thoughts and opinions instead. I don't understand all the bitching and the overly negative attitude. Yes, there are very tough times ahead for Egypt, yes, there are countless problems in the country we all have been complaining about on here and elsewhere for years. But there is no way back now, and we have to give people a chance, for God's sake.
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: Yes a change of mentality comes with hope for the future, no one is saying that a change of mentality is not needed, they have had 30 years of this and I'm sure it took East Germans a bit of time to realize they were free to change too.
And we are still waiting for an answer to the question why it was ok for the East Germans to fight for democracy and freedom, but not for the Egyptians. Seems a bit hypocritical to me that one is acceptable, but the other is not.
Posts: 2803 | Registered: Feb 2007
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Have the Egyptians exchanged totalitarian rule by Mubarak for totalitarian rule by Mubarak’s handpicked generals?
"Plus ça change," say the cynical French, "plus c’est la même chose."
Many thoughtful Egyptians will be recalling this "bon mot" as the watch one ruler, the ousted Husni Mubarak, replaced by a military junta led by Field Marshall Mohammed Tantawi.
Egyptians are getting more Mubarakism, sans Mubarak, at least for now. This is not what most Egyptians want or deserve.
Many Egyptians are still euphoric over the ouster of Gen. Mubarak, known to one and all as "pharaoh."
Most of them do not yet seem to have realized that the people who have taken over the regime are the very same generals, policemen and tycoons who ran it under Mubarak.
Egypt’s senior generals are part of the ruling establishment. Many spend more time managing their business affairs than military matters. Such is also the case in many other Arab one-party states.
As in Pakistan, Egypt’s army is up to its helmets in big business: shopping centers, tourism, property, hotels, steel, telecom. Few among Egypt’s top brass wants to end their gravy train by changing the status quo. They are ready to fight to the last mall or stock split.
As I watch Egypt’s slow-motion revolution, I wonder if somewhere among the armed forces is another young colonel who loves his people even more than he loves real estate.
Egypt’s younger officers must be thinking about the example of Gamal Abdel Nasser, who seized power in 1952 after Egypt’s disastrous war with Israel in 1947–8. Perhaps there is a young colonel or even major who may try to seize power and emulate Nasser, who is still adored by many Egyptians in spite of his disastrous mistakes. People have forgotten many of them. What they do remember was that when Nasser died of a heart attack in 1970, his family had little money, and they recall that Nasser spoke for Egypt, not foreign powers.
So far, the so-called Egyptian Revolution has only been a game of musical chairs. The United States still dominates Egypt’s military, policy, and economy. Washington provides wheat without which Egypt cannot feed itself.
Israel still exercises powerful influence over Egypt thanks to its supporters in the US Congress. An angry word from Jerusalem, and Egypt’s wheat could be cut off. Egyptian and Israeli intelligence are as entwined as was Israel’s Mossad with the Iranian Savak secret police.
The massive pyramid of Egypt’s police state – to use a fine metaphor from the brilliant Albanian writer Ismail Kadere – will not be easily lifted, perhaps without a full scale, violent revolution. To date, the revolt on the Nile has not even produced a Kerensky, never mind a Lenin.
If Egyptians feel cheated by the change of power in Cairo, as many will, and violent demonstrations begin, what will happen if the junta orders a battalion commanded by a colonel to open fire on protesters?
The first young officer who refuses and orders his men to join the demonstrators could become Egypt’s new hero. Nasser’s ghost haunts Cairo.
Posts: 1365 | Registered: Dec 2010
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- Germans faced no problem with Islamic extremists
Egypt probably faces less problem with Islamic extremists than UK does, or America or many other of the 'western' world, so your constant banging on about Islamic extremists is a bit out of place really.
I was coming here a few years ago, I think around the time of the Taba bombing. I was stopped at Birmingham Airport by security who asked where I was going, why etc etc, then asked me wasn't I worried about travelling to Egypt. I reminded him that Birmingham and London had also recently had bomb attacks, in fact more than Egypt had had in that time, hence Egypt was a safer option to be in than UK was.
It still is.
Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by vwwvv: Washington provides wheat without which Egypt cannot feed itself.
forgetting links again vw! not polite dear girl, not polite at all
Concerning wheat, there has been something on tv hubby was explaining, there was some time ago a HUGE peice of agricultural land that had started to have wheat grown on it. For some unknown reason it was all stopped. This seemed to be in a program they were discussing many other things that had been started up to employ and feed Egyptians, all had been stopped by govt. Now these things as well as many other things are being looked into.
The army may well be governing us right now BUT there is now freedom of speech, freedom of the press and there are many with a voice and a lot to say. Many things are now coming out as more and more find their voices are not halted which is leading to investigation into all areas of everything. InshaAllah they will eventually get down to Samir Farag!
Hubby spent yesterday, he's with them today too, with French news TV crew and some from ........forgot, African country beginning with C........, he was based in Amman though, they were interviewing all walks of life on what they now thought about the revolution and about tourism here, about MB and all sorts. They had arrived from Cairo where they had spent 2 weeks in Tahrir.
this country IS a RICH country, but the men at the top were corrupt and it suited 'foreign governments' to keep Egypt as a 3rd world country. Now things are staring to change as the people, those that matter, get a voice they are allowed to use. All will be watching whoever gets into power and any at the top will now be held accountable as now the Egyptian people understand what democracy is all about and that they have rights over those at the top.
Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
A few thoughts Egypt is a filthy country Yes, it is. It is also poor, corrupt, mostly ignorant, polluted, crowded, underdeveloped etc... this is why we needed the REVOLUTION, It was a volcano waiting to erupt and instead of blowing its top off (as most people expected sooner or later), lava emerged from cracks and flowed slowly down the slopes covering up the old and... well enough of that metaphor you know what I mean Change of attitude Absolutely essential, and it's happening already. Everyone, rich and poor that I have talked to, feels a huge sense of relief, and pride for the first time. They really DO want to improve this country. This only happened after Mubarak stepped down. There was the fear of instability before, but once he'd gone, EVERYBODY celebrated (that I know of). He was so despised and disrespected. People lived in fear their whole lives, could not imagine not having that fear. Difficult road ahead Yes, terrible, and it still might all go wrong, but it could not have been worse. The difficulty now is understanding democracy and dissent. Big awareness campaign needed Military still here Yes, its a worry. They are very entrenched and also corrupt and have their own old regime power structure. But there was no other choice. All opposition has been repressed so there is nobody to step into power. So far they have behaved honourably, the constitution had to be abolished, it was tailored to the dictator, the parliament had to be dissolved since elections were rigged. The whole regime was based on cheating, lies, suppression, self-interest. Now political parties will be allowed to form for the first time. And the press, amazing! the official newspapers are all writing freely for the first time ever.
There is a great feeling of hope sweeping the nation, so let's enjoy it while it lasts, no doubt disillusion will set in fairly soon and then we'll have to wait for real improvement to people's lives for people to bless this revolution.
Posts: 1039 | From: Cairo | Registered: Sep 2002
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quote:Originally posted by citizen: A few thoughts Egypt is a filthy country Yes, it is. It is also poor, corrupt, mostly ignorant, polluted, crowded, underdeveloped etc... this is why we needed the REVOLUTION, It was a volcano waiting to erupt and instead of blowing its top off (as most people expected sooner or later), lava emerged from cracks and flowed slowly down the slopes covering up the old and... well enough of that metaphor you know what I mean Change of attitude Absolutely essential, and it's happening already. Everyone, rich and poor that I have talked to, feels a huge sense of relief, and pride for the first time. They really DO want to improve this country. This only happened after Mubarak stepped down. There was the fear of instability before, but once he'd gone, EVERYBODY celebrated (that I know of). He was so despised and disrespected. People lived in fear their whole lives, could not imagine not having that fear. Difficult road ahead Yes, terrible, and it still might all go wrong, but it could not have been worse. The difficulty now is understanding democracy and dissent. Big awareness campaign needed Military still here Yes, its a worry. They are very entrenched and also corrupt and have their own old regime power structure. But there was no other choice. All opposition has been repressed so there is nobody to step into power. So far they have behaved honourably, the constitution had to be abolished, it was tailored to the dictator, the parliament had to be dissolved since elections were rigged. The whole regime was based on cheating, lies, suppression, self-interest. Now political parties will be allowed to form for the first time. And the press, amazing! the official newspapers are all writing freely for the first time ever.
There is a great feeling of hope sweeping the nation, so let's enjoy it while it lasts, no doubt disillusion will set in fairly soon and then we'll have to wait for real improvement to people's lives for people to bless this revolution.
I like what you have just said Citizen. You expressed it perfectly! Posts: 3291 | From: I DO believe in Karma! | Registered: Apr 2002
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quote:Originally posted by citizen: A few thoughts Egypt is a filthy country Yes, it is. It is also poor, corrupt, mostly ignorant, polluted, crowded, underdeveloped etc... this is why we needed the REVOLUTION, It was a volcano waiting to erupt and instead of blowing its top off (as most people expected sooner or later), lava emerged from cracks and flowed slowly down the slopes covering up the old and... well enough of that metaphor you know what I mean Change of attitude Absolutely essential, and it's happening already. Everyone, rich and poor that I have talked to, feels a huge sense of relief, and pride for the first time. They really DO want to improve this country. This only happened after Mubarak stepped down. There was the fear of instability before, but once he'd gone, EVERYBODY celebrated (that I know of). He was so despised and disrespected. People lived in fear their whole lives, could not imagine not having that fear. Difficult road ahead Yes, terrible, and it still might all go wrong, but it could not have been worse. The difficulty now is understanding democracy and dissent. Big awareness campaign needed Military still here Yes, its a worry. They are very entrenched and also corrupt and have their own old regime power structure. But there was no other choice. All opposition has been repressed so there is nobody to step into power. So far they have behaved honourably, the constitution had to be abolished, it was tailored to the dictator, the parliament had to be dissolved since elections were rigged. The whole regime was based on cheating, lies, suppression, self-interest. Now political parties will be allowed to form for the first time. And the press, amazing! the official newspapers are all writing freely for the first time ever.
There is a great feeling of hope sweeping the nation, so let's enjoy it while it lasts, no doubt disillusion will set in fairly soon and then we'll have to wait for real improvement to people's lives for people to bless this revolution.
I like what you have just said Citizen. You expressed it perfectly!
posted
Oh may I just add that the military had a meeting with a delegation of the young 'facebook' people yesterday, The young people reported a complete difference in attitude from the old guys, no more patronizing 'Listen son, I'm like your father I know what's good for you".., no they actually listened to them as equals and respected their views. This is HUGE.
Posts: 1039 | From: Cairo | Registered: Sep 2002
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quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: Germany had excellent relations with Mubarak, so did France, Italy, Russia and other nations.
France have said they won't have him. Italy I think will, Russia couldn't tell you, but France won't.
Posts: 1678 | From: New Egypt Forum - http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Dec 2009
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posted
A little OT but has anyone heard/read about when they might open the border again to Gaza?
Posts: 3291 | From: I DO believe in Karma! | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
According to BBC World - Army Council has said work in changing constitution to be completed in 10 days.
Posts: 5593 | From: Egypt | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
And we are still waiting for an answer to the question why it was ok for the East Germans to fight for democracy and freedom, but not for the Egyptians. Seems a bit hypocritical to me that one is acceptable, but the other is not.
quote:Originally posted by vwwvv: It was ok because West Germany could afford to shoulder the cost.
- Germans faced no problem with Islamic extremists
- East Germany was an developed country
So....
1/ It's not ok for Egyptians to have democracy because _______ can't afford to shoulder the cost.
What is the "cost" of a democracy versus a dictatorship, exactly?
2/ It's not ok for Egyptians to have democracy because they face a problem with Islamist extremist.
So does Germany, UK, US, etc.
3/ It's not ok for Egyptians to have democracy because it's not a developed country.
vwwvv, are you on drugs or is the only thing you ever read your bible?
Posts: 2182 | Registered: Oct 2002
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posted
Mubarak ordered the army to mow over the demonstrators with tanks on the evening of January 30th (the Sunday night - day after the prisoners escaped - ahem). The tank commanders refused. God bless a military where the troops DO question orders - it was established at Nuremberg that "I was obeying orders" is no defence in war crimes trials.
"We had witnessed many similar sentiments from the army over the past two weeks. But the critical moment came on the evening of 30 January when, it is now clear, Mubarak ordered the Egyptian Third Army to crush the demonstrators in Tahrir Square with their tanks after flying F-16 fighter bombers at low level over the protesters.
Many of the senior tank commanders could be seen tearing off their headsets – over which they had received the fatal orders – to use their mobile phones. They were, it now transpires, calling their own military families for advice. Fathers who had spent their lives serving the Egyptian army told their sons to disobey, that they must never kill their own people.
Thus when General Hassan al-Rawani told the massive crowds yesterday evening that "everything you want will be realised – all your demands will be met", the people cried back: "The army and the people stand together – the army and the people are united. The army and the people belong to one hand."
(PS I don't know what his sources were).
Posts: 5593 | From: Egypt | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
Many of the senior tank commanders could be seen tearing off their headsets – over which they had received the fatal orders – to use their mobile phones. They were, it now transpires, calling their own military families for advice. Fathers who had spent their lives serving the Egyptian army told their sons to disobey, that they must never kill their own people.
So really, the senior official who GAVE the orders are the same ones currently running the country. And it's the low-level rank officers in the actual tanks that refused to carry them out.
Posts: 2182 | Registered: Oct 2002
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posted
I was reading Robert Fisk day by day, first thing every morning, he was obviously getting to his hotel late and writing his daily despatch for the morning paper.
He's an amazing writer, not just analysis like the other pundits, but historical background, nitty gritty details from being in the thick of the action, conflicting emotions of the players and personal anecdotes... very readable like literature.
Posts: 1039 | From: Cairo | Registered: Sep 2002
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posted
Get to know better about Tahrir square.Posts: 3219 | From: Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone. | Registered: Nov 2005
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