Djehootie provides no images of a straight hair Egyptian plant fiber wig. He claims that if an Egyptian is wearing one that it is not intended to look like hair. It's supposed to look like a plant on somebodys head. It's a reference to plants
Posts: 43114 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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I assume you are saying pictures above are natural not wigs. The man at top left has straight hair What accounts for the hair color?
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti:
the paint is faded or eroded
If the paint faded on the hair of the man at top left whate was the probable original color of the hair?
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ LOL B|tch quit playing dumb! I know you're stupid, but you aren't that stupid! What do you think the original color was?! Note that even the grapes the man is picking is faded too.
^^^^ notice how he won't answer the question because he knows he is bullshyting
Posts: 43114 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
Lioness, LOL. The man on the top left is wearing braids. Same for the balding man below.
Straight/wavy European-type hair is what you see on Greek and Roman murals not the kind of braided African hair you see on the AE murals. In fact, unbraided hair is what you see on the head of the man to the right. The artist is simply saying that some Egyptians braid their hair and others not.
We have seen so many AE murals that we should know by now the type of hair and hairstyles worn by the generic Egyptian.
Posts: 5492 | Registered: Nov 2004
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^^ I take it then all the intelligent folks have left. LOL
quote:Originally posted by the lyinass,:
Djehootie provides no images of a straight hair Egyptian plant fiber wig.
Am I suppose to do such?? Here then:
One knowledgeable in Egyptian wigs can tell that these are plant fiber wigs because no indication of texture is given. Usually the curls of Egyptian women's hair can be seen in the outline as well as the ends of the hair strands. In wigs where the outline is completely straight and there's no indication of strands they are wigs of plant fibers similar to the one the African girl below wears only larger and with longer sheets.
Note "straight hair plant fiber wig" is an oxymoron. If the wig is plant fiber, then it is NOT hair then! Note also the god Heru (Horus) above with his multicolored stripes. According to lyinass idiots this must mean Horus had long multicolored "hair". LOL
quote:He claims that if an Egyptian is wearing one that it is not intended to look like hair. It's supposed to look like a plant on somebody's head. It's a reference to plants
Of course the lyinass statement about what I "claim" is only partially correct. Yes a plant wig is not suppose to look like hair, at least not exactly. If anything it is a stylish headdress. By your reasoning West Africans who also traditionally wear such wigs must do so to emulate "straight hair" also! LOL Diop tackles this lie on his section on Egyptian wigs in his Origins of African Civilization book.
quote:Lyinass quoted:
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ LOL B|tch quit playing dumb! I know you're stupid, but you aren't that stupid! What do you think the original color was?! Note that even the grapes the man is picking is faded too.
^^^^ notice how he won't answer the question because he knows he is bullshyting
The only one bullsh|ting is YOU, b|tch! Your question is on what the original hair color of the grape picker is suppose to be is so stupid that it is rhetorical. Of course the answer is BLACK. Black is the typical color for ancient Egyptian hair like all Africans. That YOUR dumbass claims it to be blonde even though Egyptians are never portrayed as blonde in art and despite the fact that parts of the painting have eroded paint including the grapes, apparently means nothing to your lying dumbass.
Posts: 26507 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by lamin: Lioness, LOL. The man on the top left is wearing braids. Same for the balding man below.
Those are NOT braids. Braids can easily be made out as exactly that. What is portrayed are strands of straight hair. And that a balding man has braids around his bald spot is laughable! LOL
quote:Straight/wavy European-type hair is what you see on Greek and Roman murals not the kind of braided African hair you see on the AE murals. In fact, unbraided hair is what you see on the head of the man to the right. The artist is simply saying that some Egyptians braid their hair and others not.
I suggest you go back and read this thread from the beginning or at least read those relevant posts made by Swenet, Zaharan, Troll Patrol, I and other intelligent posters put. Straight/wavy hair DOES occur as an indigenous trait among certain Africans including Nubians and those further south in Sub-Sahara.
quote:We have seen so many AE murals that we should know by now the type of hair and hairstyles worn by the generic Egyptian.
Indeed we do.
Posts: 26507 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
^ What were YOU trying to say with that photo of the wooden bust. I disagree with Troll Patrol that it's platyrhinne or even prognathic but the features are obviously those of an African.
I find it funny post a photo of that wooden bust while ignoring my debunking that totemic animal headed gods had "long straight hair" instead of headdresses. Posts: 26507 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: ^^ what are you trying yo say here? dom't be shy spell it out
Title: El-Amarna style head (wood)
Primary creator: Egyptian School
Nationality: Egyptian
Description: Tete en bois, style d'el Amarna
Location: Louvre, Paris, France
A picture speaks more than a thousand words. As I wrote before, I have seen thousands upon thousands of statues and artwork in Egypt itself. I know what they look like on average.
Btw, it's "don't".
Back to ancient hair, and wigs.
quote:Wigs were made of human hair, although some vegetable-fibre padding was also used T. The wig illustrated has a mass of lightish curls on top and a multitude of thin, tight plaits below ear level. The foundation for these elements was a net woven of plaited human hair, with rhomboidal openings, The wig comprises about 300 strands, each of which contains about 400 individual hairs. These have been coated with a mixture of beeswax and resin,. To attach the strand to the net, some of the hairs were looped over the netting while the rest of the strand was whipped round the loop. This was then waxed to fix the strand in place. The melting point of the max is about 50 degrees Celsius, so it was unlikely to melt even on the hottest Egyptian day.
quote: Ancient Egyptians of all classes wore wigs. Wigs disguised deformities, guarded against lice, and made the hair look thicker, which was considered attractive. The Ancient Egyptian nobility also favoured very elaborate hairstyles, which were easier to construct and maintain with wigs. High-quality wigs were made from human hair and could be afforded only by the rich. This false fringe of curly hair was found in the tomb of an Ancient Egyptian king, Zer, at Abydos. It dates from about 4,700 B.C.
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ What were YOU trying to say with that photo of the wooden bust. I disagree with Troll Patrol
I put it up to show a haircut shape and the sculpture doesn't indicate what texture it was. Notable is the sharp straight cut off line at the end of the hair. Even better shown in this angle: Then Troll went off topic on a tangent about in his view, true negro features
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti:
I find it funny post a photo of that wooden bust while ignoring my debunking that totemic animal headed gods had "long straight hair" instead of headdresses.
No reply was necessary since you debunked yourself with that one. I moved on
Nowhere did I write "true negro" features. It's you and your alter ego names, who is doing this all the time, Impostor.
I wrote, maxillary (upper nasal prognathism) and platyrrhine. These are common traits within African populations. Which is a FACT. This is why a posted a Roman statue as comparison, showing leptorrhine.LOL
Let's have a closer inspection.
Note the maxillary!
Here are some authentic hair styles, similar to ancient wigs. Note the maxillary.lol
Anyway, to post a wooden craft head for comparison of what the hair texture "may could have been" tells something about your intelligence. It's low, very low. lol
Posts: 22249 | From: Omni | Registered: Nov 2010
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Forgive me for raining on certain people's parades here, but I've been able to confirm that the Egyptian mummy hair we're arguing over isn't exactly in top condition. I was able to get a hold of Brothwell and Spearman's article on ancient hair at the UCSD library, and they mention that Egyptian hairs, most of all those from the predynastic, have suffered "cuticular erosion". Given that cuticular erosion appears in artificially straightened hair, this doesn't exactly bolster the argument that these people had naturally straight or wavy hair. As an aside, Brothwell and Spearman also report that hair size might also change in post-mortem conditions.
Mind you, my position is not that dark-skinned African people can't have wavy hair. I'm sure the Africans aboriginal to the Saharan latitudes have evolved it a long time ago. I do question whether ancient Egyptians and Nubians were exclusively of Saharan (as opposed to sub-Saharan) descent though. You'd think that once the tropical monsoon moved north and turned the desert green, more than a few sub-Saharan people with kinky hair would have followed it and settled in the Nile Valley.
posted
^No, the ancient Egyptians weren't solely of Sahara-Sahel descent. But they were amongst those who founded the early civilization. And do have the largest stem, all throughout the Nile civilization.
Thanks for your contribution.
Posts: 22249 | From: Omni | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol: ^No, the ancient Egyptians weren't solely of Sahara-Sahel descent. But they were amongst those who founded the early civilization. And do have the largest stem, all throughout the Nile civilization.
Thanks for your contribution.
who else were the ancient Egyptians prior to the late period comprised of other than people of Sahara-Sahel descent?
Posts: 43114 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol: ^No, the ancient Egyptians weren't solely of Sahara-Sahel descent. But they were amongst those who founded the early civilization. And do have the largest stem, all throughout the Nile civilization.
Thing is that even those Sahara-Sahel people had to come from somewhere. While there probably were small communities of people already eking out an existence in the desert during the Late Pleistocene, but their population numbers would have paled in comparison to their sub-Saharan counterparts. Ergo, a large proportion of the people moving into the desert during the Holocene wet phase must have come from more humid areas to the south. That the Egyptians' skeletal remains show super-tropical limb proportions would suggest that much of their ancestry was indeed Neolithic sub-Saharan.
Posts: 7225 | From: Fallbrook, CA | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Truthcentric: [QB] Forgive me for raining on certain people's parades here, but I've been able to confirm that the Egyptian mummy hair we're arguing over isn't exactly in top condition. I was able to get a hold of Brothwell and Spearman's article on ancient hair at the UCSD library, and they mention that Egyptian hairs, most of all those from the predynastic, have suffered "cuticular erosion". Given that cuticular erosion appears in artificially straightened hair, this doesn't exactly bolster the argument that these people had naturally straight or wavy hair. As an aside, Brothwell and Spearman also report that hair size might also change in post-mortem conditions.
It's irreleavant the mummies that have been shown, Tiye, Thuya, Rameses II etc, intermediate not to mention the non-sequiter logic used. You will have to mention specific mummies
quote:Originally posted by Truthcentric:
Mind you, my position is not that dark-skinned African people can't have wavy hair.
the fact that in the beginning of your post you mention "naturally straight or wavy hair" but now you mention wavy but not straight hair could easily lead one to believe that you believe dark-skinned African people can have wavy hair but not straight hair.
It similar to what Djehootie does he might mention straight or wavy hair in Africans but if the subject is ancient Egyptians specifically he sneaks out straight hair and only talks about wavy. So far the only AE that had straight hair was a grape picking peasant. Similarly when an Egyptian artwork's hair is speculated on in every case Troll Patrol will post a modern person with kinky hair suggesting that is the type being the type portrayed in the art. Djhoopty does the same thing
Posts: 43114 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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I find it funny post a photo of that wooden bust while ignoring my debunking that totemic animal headed gods had "long straight hair" instead of headdresses.
No reply was necessary since you debunked yourself with that one. I moved on
lyinass productions
And exactly how did I "debunk" myself??
Your premise is that Egyptian gods when depicted with anthropomorphic bodies with totemic animal heads have long straight hair. Your premise is false since even Egyptology acknowledges that the animal heads don't show hair but a type of plant fiber headdress of the exact type shown on African masks.
According to your lyinass claims Heru (Horus) is depicted with..
your productions are flushed down the toilet as usual. You keep 'producing' and I'll keep flushing. Posts: 26507 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
^ To Troll Patrol, nevermind I see the bust now in different angles and the nose is wider than I thought and yes I see a little maxillary prognathism, though I don't know what all the hoopla about the bust that lyinass posted has anything to do with the topic of this thread.
quote:Originally posted by Truthcentric: Forgive me for raining on certain people's parades here, but I've been able to confirm that the Egyptian mummy hair we're arguing over isn't exactly in top condition. I was able to get a hold of Brothwell and Spearman's article on ancient hair at the UCSD library, and they mention that Egyptian hairs, most of all those from the predynastic, have suffered "cuticular erosion". Given that cuticular erosion appears in artificially straightened hair, this doesn't exactly bolster the argument that these people had naturally straight or wavy hair. As an aside, Brothwell and Spearman also report that hair size might also change in post-mortem conditions.
Mind you, my position is not that dark-skinned African people can't have wavy hair. I'm sure the Africans aboriginal to the Saharan latitudes have evolved it a long time ago. I do question whether ancient Egyptians and Nubians were exclusively of Saharan (as opposed to sub-Saharan) descent though. You'd think that once the tropical monsoon moved north and turned the desert green, more than a few sub-Saharan people with kinky hair would have followed it and settled in the Nile Valley.
Indeed. To be honest I'm not at all surprised. I too have been making this same argument since PAGE 1 of this very thread that either embalming chemicals and/or passage of time leads to cuticular erosion. Once the cortex of the hair follicle is exposed oxidation occurs which leads to annihilation of the eumelanin (responsible for black coloring of hair) and only phaelomelanin is left giving the light colored brown, auburn, or red color. This also leads to alteration of original texture.
But again, this is not to say wavy hair did not naturally occur.
Posts: 26507 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by the lyinass,: It's irreleavant the mummies that have been shown, Tiye, Thuya, Rameses II etc, intermediate not to mention the non-sequiter logic used. You will have to mention specific mummies.
Actually what Truth cited is very relevant to the topic at hand. Thus you have to prove that all the mummies you cited had such hair texture originally when alive or was it altered through mummification and/or time via cuticular erosion.
quote:the fact that in the beginning of your post you mention "naturally straight or wavy hair" but now you mention wavy but not straight hair could easily lead one to believe that you believe dark-skinned African people can have wavy hair but not straight hair.
It similar to what Djehootie does he might mention straight or wavy hair in Africans but if the subject is ancient Egyptians specifically he sneaks out straight hair and only talks about wavy.
You talk as if there is a difference. Hair that is wavy is straight or rather straighter than kinky. YOU try to obfuscate by association such straightness with that found in northern Asians or even 'waviness' with that found in Europeans. So don't complain about terminology, lying trick!
quote:So far the only AE that had straight hair was a grape picking peasant. Similarly when an Egyptian artwork's hair is speculated on in every case Troll Patrol will post a modern person with kinky hair suggesting that is the type being the type portrayed in the art. Djhoopty does the same thing
No lying pig. I specifically gave several examples including two farmers and a couple of scribes and even two princesses as well as a few fallen predynastic Delta folk in Narmer's Palette. Obviously looser haired types existed and was portrayed in art. Just because it is not as common as YOU wish it don't dare make the false accusation that I or Troll Patrol of made one cherry picked example, lying ho. Posts: 26507 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol: ^No, the ancient Egyptians weren't solely of Sahara-Sahel descent. But they were amongst those who founded the early civilization. And do have the largest stem, all throughout the Nile civilization.
Thing is that even those Sahara-Sahel people had to come from somewhere. While there probably were small communities of people already eking out an existence in the desert during the Late Pleistocene, but their population numbers would have paled in comparison to their sub-Saharan counterparts. Ergo, a large proportion of the people moving into the desert during the Holocene wet phase must have come from more humid areas to the south. That the Egyptians' skeletal remains show super-tropical limb proportions would suggest that much of their ancestry was indeed Neolithic sub-Saharan.
Note also the findings of ancient Egyptian autosomal DNA STR markers that were once common in pre-Holocene Sub-Sahara but are not common there any longer.
Posts: 26507 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
Since people are posting random busts, what about this one?
Is the hair real or a plant wig? The very even strands may suggest the latter though it is possible it may be real hair as well.
Posts: 26507 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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People don't have green skin. yet an artist can portray Osiris a God that has green skin. The skin is intended to be real green skin that a god might have not that the god wore makeup
Likewise people don't have blue hair But a god could have blue hair
Are we looking at a depiction of a mask of Anubis here or is it supposed to be the real Anubis? As we can see by the size of the head it's too small to be a mask on top of a human head. It's the real Anubis, a god with a jackal head on a human body with human hair.
All Egyptians wore wigs? No, some did others didn't. Look at the mummies of Tiye, Yuya, Thiya, Rameses II and many more with their real hair.
Is Anubis in the above relief wearing a wig made of plant fiber? Dje-who-ti showed the item below made of plant fiber. Are the fibers all hanging in neat straight rows? No, there is no resemblance. What about the ancient Egyptian wigs we have seen posted? They don't resemble this hair on Anubis
.
quote:Originally posted by Dje-who?-ti:
Here is a West African mask depicting a deity with yellow plant fibers
quote:Originally posted by Dje-who?-ti:
Queen Tiye
didn't I say that when 'hair' is shown without any texture at all, then it's not really hair but a PLANT fiber wig or headdress! Plant fiber wigs give that impression i.e. no indication of texture or strands OR perfectly even strands that fall at a certain length.
this guy just makes it up as he goes along. Anything that is artistically ambiguous he hiccups "plant fiber"
Another thing about plant fiber is that if rubbing against bare skin it would scratch. There are also hair wigs. And as we have seen there are mummies of people who had their own natural hair, Queen Tiye is an example.
lioness prodcuctions 2013 everyday like a vitamin
Posts: 43114 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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^ Note the two princesses have side pieces that are styled perhaps braided and then unbraided and the top part perhaps gelled (?), but definitely natural waves.
Djeshootme has all the above as examples of natural hair. look at the top right figure. straight hair no wave
Now look at a lot of other pieces of art. You see the same depiction of hair yet Djeshootme will say it's a plant fiber wig
He applies the term at random, willy nilly style
then he will shout "can't you tell the difference between plant fiber and real hair ???"
it's comical at this point
fiber is good but if you overdo it you get diarrhea and he has it
Posts: 43114 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Truthcentric: Forgive me for raining on certain people's parades here, but I've been able to confirm that the Egyptian mummy hair we're arguing over isn't exactly in top condition. I was able to get a hold of Brothwell and Spearman's article on ancient hair at the UCSD library, and they mention that Egyptian hairs, most of all those from the predynastic, have suffered "cuticular erosion". Given that cuticular erosion appears in artificially straightened hair, this doesn't exactly bolster the argument that these people had naturally straight or wavy hair. As an aside, Brothwell and Spearman also report that hair size might also change in post-mortem conditions.
Mind you, my position is not that dark-skinned African people can't have wavy hair. I'm sure the Africans aboriginal to the Saharan latitudes have evolved it a long time ago. I do question whether ancient Egyptians and Nubians were exclusively of Saharan (as opposed to sub-Saharan) descent though. You'd think that once the tropical monsoon moved north and turned the desert green, more than a few sub-Saharan people with kinky hair would have followed it and settled in the Nile Valley.
Sigh. Finally some fresh insights from an academic source. Thanks for posting.
As for the implications of this text on the OP sources I posted, there don't seem to be any. Unless I'm misinformed, cuticular erosion doesn't change cross-section index, and so it cannot explain the microscopically non-flattened (i.e., oval shaped) cross-sections. The implications would have been more more apparant if the Egypto-Nubian hair strands were exclusively macroscopically (i.e., visually) categorized as wavy/straigt etc., but they aren't.
So much for Mathilda's obsessions with Ancient Egypto-Nubian discoloured hair strands:
Transverse sections of hair from an Egyptian mummy (Plate XXa) were interesting in that there was a strong uniform reddish fluorescence of the keratin with acridine orange, but the melanin granules in the medulla and cortex were black.
As for your comment on kinky hair in Ancient Egypt, I've already told you in my previous post to you, kinky hairs weren't absent in Ancient Egypt and Nubia. Please reread the OP and other materials, including the papers you yourself put up in Sundiata's thread. I mean the one you bumbed recently.
Posts: 8807 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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^ Probably simple physics is at work here. I do know from playing with my own (straight) hair that flattening individual follicles with a coin will make it curl like Afro-hair. This website reports the same:
quote:Shape of hair: The cross sectional shape is typically round in people of Asian decent, round to oval in European decent, and nearly flat in African decent; it is that flatness which allows African hair to attain its frizzly form. In contrast, hair that has a round cross section will be straight. A strand of straight round cross-section hair that has been flattened, for example, with an edge of a coin, will curl up into a micro-afro.
If you can change the curvature of hair by flattening it, I would think the same physics would allow the reverse scenario (i.e. straightening hair by making its cross-section round).
Posts: 7225 | From: Fallbrook, CA | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
You're clearly reasoning from some perveived incongruence about Africans having non-kinky hair, rather than the material on the table.
Have you seen flattened cross section? Have you seen cross sections that are rounded or oval in shape? Sorry, but I just don't see hair going from one state to the other, simply because of corrosion or other chemical or mechanic infuences.
If you this was as easily achieved as you're implying it is, the segment of the female population that habitually straightens their hair wouldn't go for temporary and damaging 'solutions' like hair straighteners.
Posts: 8807 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Swenet: Have you seen flattened cross section? Have you seen cross sections that are rounded or oval in shape? Sorry, but I just don't see hair going from one state to the other, simply because of corrosion or other chemical or mechanic infuences.
If you this was as easily achieved as you're implying it is, the segment of the female population that habitually straightens their hair wouldn't go for temporary and damaging 'solutions' like hair straighteners.
Uh, how does that refute anything I've suggested? Do you even understand what I said? If flattening a hair as I have done many times can cause it to curl, why couldn't relaxing a hair cause the reverse process?
Actually, this link suggests that the shape of the whole follicle, rather than the cross-section, is what affects hair curvature.
Posts: 7225 | From: Fallbrook, CA | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
Your only explanation for wavy straight hair in Ancient Northeast African populations were cutical damage and mechanical alterations. That's exactly what I dealt with in that post. I have no idea how you've come to the conclusion that I didn't understand your post.
This:
quote:why couldn't relaxing a hair cause the reverse process?
What do you mean? Its already established that African Americans who straighten their hair don't get round cross sections. This is exactly why hair straightening isn't permanent:
quote:What happens when you relax your hair? The keratin in hair is arranged in bundles. These bundles are held together by chemical bonds called disulphide bonds. These bonds give the hair strength. Relaxers simply break these disulphide bonds and cap them so that they cannot chemically reform. Classically, hair relaxers use a reducer or a base (the opposite of an acid) such as lye (sodium hydroxide) to break and cap these bonds. Unfortunately, sodium hydroxide can burn your skin and damage your hair. That is why some women opt for no-lye relaxers.
You're flattening your hair strand by applying pressure from the outside. This is what scientist would call human intervention; it wouldn't occur in nature. Three questions: 1) what outside pressure reverses this process (this just seems a contradiction), and 2) what naturally occurring mechanical or chemical phenomena precipitates this? 3) why are curly haired mummies found in the same tombs among other individuals with wavy-straight hair, i.e., why did the curly hairs survive the mechanical and chemical alterations despite the shared environmental conditions?
quote:Actually, this link suggests that the shape of the whole follicle, rather than the cross-section, is what affects hair curvature.
So, then why did your hair strand become coiled when you scraped it with a coin?
Posts: 8807 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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quote:Those are NOT braids. Braids can easily be made out as exactly that. What is portrayed are strands of straight hair. And that a balding man has braids around his bald spot is laughable! LOL
LOL too. I live in Africa; you don't I have seen more Africans than you will ever see in 2 life times.
I have see African men who are balding wear Rasta braids.
I don't deny that in places like Sudan and the Sahel area northwards there are people with wavy/straight hair. So what is your point? My point is that the men in the AE mural are wearing braids. I would know that better than you.
Posts: 5492 | Registered: Nov 2004
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quote:I suggest you go back and read this thread from the beginning or at least read those relevant posts made by Swenet, Zaharan, Troll Patrol, I and other intelligent posters put. Straight/wavy hair DOES occur as an indigenous trait among certain Africans including Nubians and those further south in Sub-Sahara.
You seem obsessed with the hair of the AEs--more than they were. Most wore wigs at some time and others braided their hair.
The AEs were clear on what their predominant hair form was. You see it on their murals where they portrayed themselves in groups and when they compared themselves to West Asians. The hair was always in an East African hairstyle.
The discussion is redundant because the Greeks who saw the AEs in the flesh stated that they had "woolly hair". That's what Herodotus write and Aristotle too. Were they lying?
Posts: 5492 | Registered: Nov 2004
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posted
I don't get your point. The present British royal family is of German background. What does the DNA--if accurate--of less than 1% of the indigenous AE population say about the population of a nation that lasted 3,000 years.
The late Senghor of Senegal had a white wife. Same with Wade--whose son had about 12 ministries under his bailiwick.
I prefer--more sensibly--to look at the AE population as a whole--by their murals and their sculptures, royalty and plebs-- and the hear what the Ancient Greeks said about them. Case closed. What else is there to add? Grave robbing Euros who tag on their fanciful analyses are interesting but do not represent the best evidence of the ethnic makeup of the AEs. Again, rely more on the direct, hard, empirical data of the murals, the sculptures and the direct testimony of Greek visitors.
The niggling questions asked back and forth are like those posed by medieval theologians in Europe who asked "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin"?
Posts: 5492 | Registered: Nov 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol: ^No, the ancient Egyptians weren't solely of Sahara-Sahel descent. But they were amongst those who founded the early civilization. And do have the largest stem, all throughout the Nile civilization.
Thanks for your contribution.
who else were the ancient Egyptians prior to the late period comprised of other than people of Sahara-Sahel descent?
I did not say there were other "people prior" to them at the axis. You just made that up.
By The Metropolitan Museum of Art.
Wadi Kubbaniya (ca. 17,000–15,000 B.C.)
Although no signs of houses were found, diverse and sophisticated stone implements for hunting, fishing, and collecting and processing plants were discovered around hearths.
In Egypt, the earliest evidence of humans can be recognized only from tools found scattered over an ancient surface, sometimes with hearths nearby. In Wadi Kubbaniya, a dried-up streambed cutting through the Western Desert to the floodplain northwest of Aswan in Upper Egypt, some interesting sites of the kind described above have been recorded. A cluster of Late Paleolithic camps was located in two different topographic zones: on the tops of dunes and the floor of the wadi (streambed) where it enters the valley. Although no signs of houses were found, diverse and sophisticated stone implements for hunting, fishing, and collecting and processing plants were discovered around hearths. Most tools were bladelets made from a local stone called chert that is widely used in tool fabrication. The bones of wild cattle, hartebeest, many types of fish and birds, as well as the occasional hippopotamus have been identified in the occupation layers. Charred remains of plants that the inhabitants consumed, especially tubers, have also been found.
It appears from the zoological and botanical remains at the various sites in this wadi that the two environmental zones were exploited at different times. We know that the dune sites were occupied when the Nile River flooded the wadi because large numbers of fish and migratory bird bones were found at this location. When the water receded, people then moved down onto the silt left behind on the wadi floor and the floodplain, probably following large animals that looked for water there in the dry season. Paleolithic peoples lived at Wadi Kubbaniya for about 2,000 years, exploiting the different environments as the seasons changed. Other ancient camps have been discovered along the Nile from Sudan to the Mediterranean, yielding similar tools and food remains. These sites demonstrate that the early inhabitants of the Nile valley and its nearby deserts had learned how to exploit local environments, developing economic strategies that were maintained in later cultural traditions of pharaonic Egypt.
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol: ^No, the ancient Egyptians weren't solely of Sahara-Sahel descent. But they were amongst those who founded the early civilization. And do have the largest stem, all throughout the Nile civilization.
Thanks for your contribution.
who else were the ancient Egyptians prior to the late period comprised of other than people of Sahara-Sahel descent?
Science. 2006 Aug 11;313(5788):803-7. Epub 2006 Jul 20.
Climate-controlled Holocene occupation in the Sahara: motor of Africa's evolution.
Kuper R, Kröpelin S.
Source
Collaborative Research Center 389 (ACACIA), University of Cologne, Institute of Prehistoric Archaeology, Africa Research Unit, Jennerstrasse 8, 50823 Köln, Germany.
Abstract
Radiocarbon data from 150 archaeological excavations in the now hyper-arid Eastern Sahara of Egypt, Sudan, Libya, and Chad reveal close links between climatic variations and prehistoric occupation during the past 12,000 years. Synoptic multiple-indicator views for major time slices demonstrate the transition from initial settlement after the sudden onset of humid conditions at 8500 B.C.E. to the exodus resulting from gradual desiccation since 5300 B.C.E.
Southward shifting of the desert margin helped trigger the emergence of pharaonic civilisation along the Nile, influenced the spread of pastoralism throughout the continent, and affects sub-Saharan Africa to the present day.
Naqada, Kerma.
The people STILL look the same and tropical! As is also backed up by science!
quote:Originally posted by Swenet: What do you mean? Its already established that African Americans who straighten their hair don't get round cross sections. This is exactly why hair straightening isn't permanent:
quote:What happens when you relax your hair? The keratin in hair is arranged in bundles. These bundles are held together by chemical bonds called disulphide bonds. These bonds give the hair strength. Relaxers simply break these disulphide bonds and cap them so that they cannot chemically reform. Classically, hair relaxers use a reducer or a base (the opposite of an acid) such as lye (sodium hydroxide) to break and cap these bonds. Unfortunately, sodium hydroxide can burn your skin and damage your hair. That is why some women opt for no-lye relaxers.
Your link does not say that cross-section shape isn't altered by relaxers. The reason the straightening effect isn't permanent if you use certain methods is because only hydrogen bonds are affected, not disulfide bonds. On the other hand, if you do affect the disulfide bonds, the straightening is permanent. It's more to do with which bonds are affected than cross-section shape, I suspect.
quote:You're flattening your hair strand by applying pressure from the outside. This is what scientist would call human intervention; it wouldn't occur in nature. Three questions: 1) what outside pressure reverses this process (this just seems a contradiction), and 2) what naturally occurring mechanical or chemical phenomena precipitates this? 3) why are curly haired mummies found in the same tombs among other individuals with wavy-straight hair, i.e., why did the curly hairs survive the mechanical and chemical alterations despite the shared environmental conditions?
I don't claim to know exactly what is damaging the mummies' hair. All I know is that, according to Brothwell and Spearman, this hair is damaged.
Posts: 7225 | From: Fallbrook, CA | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol: ^No, the ancient Egyptians weren't solely of Sahara-Sahel descent. But they were amongst those who founded the early civilization. And do have the largest stem, all throughout the Nile civilization.
Thanks for your contribution.
who else were the ancient Egyptians prior to the late period comprised of other than people of Sahara-Sahel descent?
l-Barga reveals one of the most important necropoleis of the early Holocene in Africa.
This site was discovered in 2001 during a survey concentrating on the zones bordering the alluvial plain. The name el-Barga is borrowed from a nearby mountain. The site is located on an elevation formed by an outcrop of bedrock (Nubian sandstone) less than 15 km from the Nile, as the crow flies. It includes a settlement area dated to circa 7500 B.C. and cemeteries belonging to two distinct periods.
The habitation is a circular hut slightly less than five metres in diameter, its maximum depth exceeding 50 centimetres. This semi-subterranean structure contained a wealth of artefacts resulting from the site’s occupation (ceramics, grinding tools, flint objects, ostrich eggshell beads, a mother-of-pearl pendant, bone tools, faunal remains, shells). The abundance of artefacts discovered suggests a marked inclination towards a sedentary lifestyle, even though certain activities (fishing and hunting) necessitate seasonal migration.
North of this habitation, about forty burials were dated to the Epipalaeolithic (7700-7000 B.C.) and generally do not contain any furnishings. On the other hand, the Neolithic cemetery (6000-5500 B.C.) located further south comprises about a hundred burials often containing artefacts (adornment, ceramics, flint or bone objects).
For further information, read the publications by M. Honegger. Posts: 22249 | From: Omni | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol: ^No, the ancient Egyptians weren't solely of Sahara-Sahel descent. But they were amongst those who founded the early civilization. And do have the largest stem, all throughout the Nile civilization.
Thanks for your contribution.
who else were the ancient Egyptians prior to the late period comprised of other than people of Sahara-Sahel descent?
Ancient watercourses and biogeography of the Sahara explain the peopling of the desert
Roger M. Blench et al.
Edited by Ofer Bar-Yosef, Harvard University, Cambridge, MA, and approved November 22, 2010 (received for review August 23, 2010)
Evidence increasingly suggests that sub-Saharan Africa is at the center of human evolution and understanding routes of dispersal “out of Africa” is thus becoming increasingly important. The Sahara Desert is considered by many to be an obstacle to these dispersals and a Nile corridor route has been proposed to cross it. Here we provide evidence that the Sahara was not an effective barrier and indicate how both animals and humans populated it during past humid phases. Analysis of the zoogeography of the Sahara shows that more animals crossed via this route than used the Nile corridor. Furthermore, many of these species are aquatic. This dis- persal was possible because during the Holocene humid period the region contained a series of linked lakes, rivers, and inland deltas comprising a large interlinked waterway, channeling water and an- imals into and across the Sahara, thus facilitating these dispersals. This system was last active in the early Holocene when many spe- cies appear to have occupied the entire Sahara. However, species that require deep water did not reach northern regions because of weak hydrological connections. Human dispersals were influenced by this distribution; Nilo-Saharan speakers hunting aquatic fauna with barbed bone points occupied the southern Sahara, while peo- ple hunting Savannah fauna with the bow and arrow spread south- ward. The dating of lacustrine sediments show that the “green Sahara” also existed during the last interglacial (∼125 ka) and pro- vided green corridors that could have formed dispersal routes at a likely time for the migration of modern humans out of Africa.
Posts: 22249 | From: Omni | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Truthcentric: [QB] Forgive me for raining on certain people's parades here, but I've been able to confirm that the Egyptian mummy hair we're arguing over isn't exactly in top condition. I was able to get a hold of Brothwell and Spearman's article on ancient hair at the UCSD library, and they mention that Egyptian hairs, most of all those from the predynastic, have suffered "cuticular erosion". Given that cuticular erosion appears in artificially straightened hair, this doesn't exactly bolster the argument that these people had naturally straight or wavy hair. As an aside, Brothwell and Spearman also report that hair size might also change in post-mortem conditions.
It's irreleavant the mummies that have been shown, Tiye, Thuya, Rameses II etc, intermediate not to mention the non-sequiter logic used. You will have to mention specific mummies
quote:Originally posted by Truthcentric:
Mind you, my position is not that dark-skinned African people can't have wavy hair.
the fact that in the beginning of your post you mention "naturally straight or wavy hair" but now you mention wavy but not straight hair could easily lead one to believe that you believe dark-skinned African people can have wavy hair but not straight hair.
It similar to what Djehootie does he might mention straight or wavy hair in Africans but if the subject is ancient Egyptians specifically he sneaks out straight hair and only talks about wavy. So far the only AE that had straight hair was a grape picking peasant. Similarly when an Egyptian artwork's hair is speculated on in every case Troll Patrol will post a modern person with kinky hair suggesting that is the type being the type portrayed in the art. Djhoopty does the same thing
You are lying as usually. I have always portrayed people from the South of Egypt in comparison to the ancients. The reason why I will post Africans similar in phenotype is, to show that these traits are indeed of Africans.
Sorry, your mental capabilities don't reach that high. And reposting the wooden bust makes you look stupid, after I elaborated on it extensive.
Posts: 22249 | From: Omni | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by lamin: [QB] I don't get your point. The present British royal family is of German background. What does the DNA--if accurate--of less than 1% of the indigenous AE population say about the population of a nation that lasted 3,000 years.
you are making up a percentage at random off the top of your head
quote:Originally posted by lamin:
The late Senghor of Senegal had a white wife. Same with Wade--whose son had about 12 ministries under his bailiwick.
I prefer--more sensibly--to look at the AE population as a whole--by their murals and their sculptures...
Again, rely more on the direct, hard, empirical data of the murals, the sculptures and the direct testimony of Greek visitors.
That is not data it's art. and you are the one that has been saying Egyptians wore wigs. Right there is a problem in knowing what their natural hair was. Further this thread shows when looking at a lot of the art you cannot be certain of what hair type is being shown
Posts: 43114 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Truthcentric: I don't claim to know exactly what is damaging the mummies' hair. All I know is that, according to Brothwell and Spearman, this hair is damaged. [/QB]
on predynatsic remains
Queen Tiye, 18 dynasties later Imagine the size of the afro were this an afro that "corroded"
watch how Truthcentrick and Djehootie are trying to acquire street cred points in this thread......
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
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Do you even understand what I said? If flattening a hair as I have done many times can cause it to curl, why couldn't relaxing a hair cause the reverse process?
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