quote:Among Latins and Greeks the word ORIGINALLY referred to BLACK MEN with WOOLLY HAIR
No retard it didn't. It meant "dark". It only came to be associated with "Blacks" (capital) very late, hence the term "Blackamoor". Orginally it was used only as a term covering the Caucasoid Berbers. Once the Negroids from Sub-Sahara Africa were greater known throughout the Middle Ages, they were called Blackamoors + "Black" to Moor to distinguish between the original Moors (who were never Black).
Its got nothing to with woolly hair. Caucasoid Berbers across North Africa have wavy hair.
The Moors of Sofala kept these wares and sold them afterwards to the heathen of the Kingdom of Benametapa, who came thither laden with gold which they gave in exchange for the said cloths without weighing it. These Moors collect also great store of ivory which they find hard by Sofala, and this also they sell in the [Indian] Kingdom of Cambay at five or six cruzados the quintal. They also sell some ambergris, which is brought to them from the Hucicas, and is exceeding good. These Moors are black, and some of them tawny; some of them speak Arabic, but the more I part use the language of the country. They clothe themselves from the waist down with cotton and silk cloths, and other cloths they wear over their shoulders like capes, and turbans on their heads. Some of them wear small caps dyed in grain in chequers and other woolen clothes in many tints, also camlets and other silks.
quote:Among Latins and Greeks the word ORIGINALLY referred to BLACK MEN with WOOLLY HAIR
No retard it didn't. It meant "dark". It only came to be associated with "Blacks" (capital) very late, hence the term "Blackamoor". Orginally it was used only as a term covering the Caucasoid Berbers. Once the Negroids from Sub-Sahara Africa were greater known throughout the Middle Ages, they were called Blackamoors + "Black" to Moor to distinguish between the original Moors (who were never Black).
Its got nothing to with woolly hair. Caucasoid Berbers across North Africa have wavy hair.
"Retard"? Tell that to the European scholar below, not me -
“Indeed, by the time Isidore of Seville came to write his Etymologies, the word Maurus or ‘Moor’ had become an adjective in Latin, 'for the Greeks call 'black' 'mauron’. In Isidore’s day, Moors were BLACK BY DEFINITION…”
quoted from Staying Roman: Conquest and identity in Africa and the Mediterranean, 439-700. by Jonathan Conant, 2012 Cambridge University Press.
BTW - ask me if I care if descendants of Eurasians in North Africa speaking the black man's dialect have wavy hair. lol!
BTW - Blackamoor meant and still means in the Caribbean regions black AS A MOOR!
That was 3 strikes and your out!
Ba-a-a-a-atter up!
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Among Latins and Greeks the word ORIGINALLY referred to BLACK MEN with WOOLLY HAIR
No retard it didn't. It meant "dark". It only came to be associated with "Blacks" (capital) very late, hence the term "Blackamoor". Orginally it was used only as a term covering the Caucasoid Berbers. Once the Negroids from Sub-Sahara Africa were greater known throughout the Middle Ages, they were called Blackamoors + "Black" to Moor to distinguish between the original Moors (who were never Black).
Its got nothing to with woolly hair. Caucasoid Berbers across North Africa have wavy hair.
The Moors of Sofala kept these wares and sold them afterwards to the heathen of the Kingdom of Benametapa, who came thither laden with gold which they gave in exchange for the said cloths without weighing it. These Moors collect also great store of ivory which they find hard by Sofala, and this also they sell in the [Indian] Kingdom of Cambay at five or six cruzados the quintal. They also sell some ambergris, which is brought to them from the Hucicas, and is exceeding good. These Moors are black, and some of them tawny; some of them speak Arabic, but the more I part use the language of the country. They clothe themselves from the waist down with cotton and silk cloths, and other cloths they wear over their shoulders like capes, and turbans on their heads. Some of them wear small caps dyed in grain in chequers and other woolen clothes in many tints, also camlets and other silks.
Duarte Barbosa, 1518
And the tawny Moors mentioned here are no doubt the Tuareg. Regardless by this time the word Moor could be used for any Muslim person.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:"Retard"? Tell that to the European scholar below, not me -
“Indeed, by the time Isidore of Seville came to write his Etymologies, the word Maurus or ‘Moor’ had become an adjective in Latin, 'for the Greeks call 'black' 'mauron’. In Isidore’s day, Moors were BLACK BY DEFINITION…”
quoted from Staying Roman: Conquest and identity in Africa and the Mediterranean, 439-700. by Jonathan Conant, 2012 Cambridge University Press.
This has already been explained countless times:
"This older, more relative sense has been noted in other culture areas. The Japanese once used the terms shiroi (white) and kuroi (black) to describe their skin and its gradations of color. The Ibos of Nigeria employed ocha (white) and ojii (black) in the same way, so that nwoko ocha (white man) simply meant an Ibo with a lighter complexion. In French Canada, the older generation still refers to a swarthy Canadien as noir (black). Vestiges of this older usage persist in family names. Mr. White, Mr. Brown, and Mr. Black were individuals within the normal color spectrum of English people. Ditto for Leblanc, Lebrun, and Lenoir among the French or Weiss and Schwartz among the Germans." (Frost, 1990)
Black, will change meaning per cultural context. Obviously the kuroi (black) of the Japanese is not any shade even approaching the Negroid hue, it will just be a faint or sallow brown. Some Igbos are called "white" but compared to a Nordic from Scandinavia, they are nowhere near as pale (they are still dark brown).
You Afroloons never understand this though because your central trick to find the word black and claim it = "Blacks" (capitalized) e.g. Negroids. Its simply retarded. By the same approach, I can claim the ancient Japanese were blonde haired white skinned Nordids since shiroi (white) = white...
Posts: 873 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2012
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quote:"Retard"? Tell that to the European scholar below, not me -
“Indeed, by the time Isidore of Seville came to write his Etymologies, the word Maurus or ‘Moor’ had become an adjective in Latin, 'for the Greeks call 'black' 'mauron’. In Isidore’s day, Moors were BLACK BY DEFINITION…”
quoted from Staying Roman: Conquest and identity in Africa and the Mediterranean, 439-700. by Jonathan Conant, 2012 Cambridge University Press.
This has already been explained countless times:
"This older, more relative sense has been noted in other culture areas. The Japanese once used the terms shiroi (white) and kuroi (black) to describe their skin and its gradations of color. The Ibos of Nigeria employed ocha (white) and ojii (black) in the same way, so that nwoko ocha (white man) simply meant an Ibo with a lighter complexion. In French Canada, the older generation still refers to a swarthy Canadien as noir (black). Vestiges of this older usage persist in family names. Mr. White, Mr. Brown, and Mr. Black were individuals within the normal color spectrum of English people. Ditto for Leblanc, Lebrun, and Lenoir among the French or Weiss and Schwartz among the Germans." (Frost, 1990)
Black, will change meaning per cultural context. Obviously the kuroi (black) of the Japanese is not any shade even approaching the Negroid hue, it will just be a faint or sallow brown. Some Igbos are called "white" but compared to a Nordic from Scandinavia, they are nowhere near as pale (they are still dark brown).
You Afroloons never understand this though because your central trick to find the word black and claim it = "Blacks" (capitalized) e.g. Negroids. Its simply retarded. By the same approach, I can claim the ancient Japanese were blonde haired white skinned Nordids since shiroi (white) = white...
Pathetic nobody - obviously you've never been to Japan if you think there aren't people black as Negroes there. i'm sure if you ask Mike he can post some pictures of them as well.
Your going to have to start using some logic here. you are not on the Euronut or wackymatilda sites anymore. if Norsemen and Englishmen used the word black for Negroes and vice versa it is because Negro meant black. just like they used the word Moor for Negro and vice versa originally, Neanderdunce.
YOU are the mentally deficient one here. What the scholar above posted is in no way analogous to the way Igbos and other Africans use the word. The word Niger/Nigri was early on used for Moors and vice versa by everyone from Danes to Germans and Latins to Mozarabs. Now how does that compare with how Canadians or Germans may use the word black today. How does "black as night" as used by Isidore in Seville mean swarthy yellow or Turkish.
Are you for real?! Because you are proving to be the real nut in denial Afrocentrics make your ilk out to be. Whatever nuttiness may appear on this site you are nothing less than their equivalent. Get over your feelings of inferiority and fear of blackness!
BTW - MR Black and Mr. Brown often have what look to be full-fledged Negroes in their coat of arms, (unlike Mr. White), unfortunately for you. As do people named Morelli, Moorman, Mormon, Swarthmore, blackmoor, Maurice, Morris, and Moore, ETCETERA.
I guess you'd like us to believe these were just a figment of these families imaginations.
And that has ALSO been posted on this site "countless times" before.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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I personally lean to Moor meaning "Wasteland". Thus Moors would be people of the North African Wastelands (Deserts).
MOOR - "waste ground," Old English mor "morass, swamp," from Proto-Germanic *mora- (cf. Old Saxon, Middle Dutch, Dutch meer "swamp," Old High German muor "swamp," also "sea," German Moor "moor," Old Norse mörr "moorland," marr "sea"), perhaps related to mere (n.), or from root *mer- "to die," hence "dead land."
posted
"Vestiges of this older usage persist in family names. Mr. White, Mr. Brown, and Mr. Black were individuals within the normal color spectrum of English people." (Frost, 1990)
"Black" to an Englishman, would have been no darker than olive.
Your worldview simply rests on the retarded idea "black" in any culture = "Black Africans" when it doesn't. Your entire worldview is shattered with one quote. lmao. What a fail at life.
Posts: 873 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2012
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quote:Originally posted by Faheemdunkers: "Vestiges of this older usage persist in family names. Mr. White, Mr. Brown, and Mr. Black were individuals within the normal color spectrum of English people." (Frost, 1990)
"Black" to an Englishman, would have been no darker than olive.
Your worldview simply rests on the retarded idea "black" in any culture = "Black Africans" when it doesn't. Your entire worldview is shattered with one quote. lmao. What a fail at life.
obviously black in early English culture WAS NOT OLIVE - ignoramous. Such assanine statements spouted today have no relevance to a thousand years ago, now do they!
Iranians, Syrians, Turks (Kurds), Andalusians like Ibn Khaldun and other people also have a special meaning for black in their language. They have always used the same word black for the Berbers as for the rest of the sub-Saharan Africans.
Play games if you want with wackymatilda logic you will only end up drowning here in your own pathetic nonsense. just because some people aren't black or brown now doesn't mean the ancestors of those families that were first called black or Morelli or Moran were not black, as their medieval depictions plainly show.
You haven't mentioned anything about my world view, but Englishmen obviously had a view of what Moors looked like and far different apparently than you want it to be.
And I wish you would stop projecting your loser status and sense of inferiority onto others. like I said - its pathetic.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
"Old Arab descriptions of "blacks" also reveal that what they meant by "black" is not necessarily what we understand it to mean today. Some medieval Arab writers such as al-Jahiz applied the term "blacks" to practically all peoples darker than the average Arab, and "whites" to peoples lighter than the norm:
"The blacks are more numerous than the whites. The whites at most consist of the people of Persia, Jibal, and Khurasan, the Greeks, Slavs, Franks, and Avars, and some few others, not very numerous; the blacks include the Zanj, Ethiopians, the people of Fazzan, the Berbers, the Copts, and Nubians, the people of Zaghawa, Marw, Sind and India, Qamar and Dabila, China, and Masin... the islands in the seas between China and Africa are full of blacks, such as Ceylon, Kalah, Amal, Zabij, and their islands, as far as India, China, Kabul, and those shores"
Jahiz's inclusion of Indians, Sindhi, and Chinese as "blacks" reinforces the point that color terms taken out of their cultural contexts are too ambiguous to determine the physical characteristics of peoples with much accuracy."
Further Negroids don't even have a monopoly on dark skin. So all your articles are just worthless junk.
Posts: 873 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2012
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quote:Originally posted by Faheemdunkers: "Old Arab descriptions of "blacks" also reveal that what they meant by "black" is not necessarily what we understand it to mean today. Some medieval Arab writers such as al-Jahiz applied the term "blacks" to practically all peoples darker than the average Arab, and "whites" to peoples lighter than the norm:
"The blacks are more numerous than the whites. The whites at most consist of the people of Persia, Jibal, and Khurasan, the Greeks, Slavs, Franks, and Avars, and some few others, not very numerous; the blacks include the Zanj, Ethiopians, the people of Fazzan, the Berbers, the Copts, and Nubians, the people of Zaghawa, Marw, Sind and India, Qamar and Dabila, China, and Masin... the islands in the seas between China and Africa are full of blacks, such as Ceylon, Kalah, Amal, Zabij, and their islands, as far as India, China, Kabul, and those shores"
Jahiz's inclusion of Indians, Sindhi, and Chinese as "blacks" reinforces the point that color terms taken out of their cultural contexts are too ambiguous to determine the physical characteristics of peoples with much accuracy."
Europeans, as with the term "berber" applied the term "Moor" loosely and that these were not terms that the people called this called themselves. I'm of the opinion that European applied the term "Moor" to a range of ethnicities of people who had been living in North Africa and who took over Spain, muslims including Arabs, black Africans and mixtures of these people as well as smaller amounts of Greek, Roman and Phoenician mixed in and comprising a range of skin tones form yelowish light brown to dark and black African. etc, All could be called Moors. (although dana says they have to be "true negroes" with "coal black" skin
^^^ Here is a picture of St James the Moorslayer, 17th century
But there is also quite a bit of pitch black African looking heads used in European heraldry going back to the 13th century.
" The emblem has connections to the Crusades, reflecting associating individual families with victories over the moors. Heraldic devices and emblems were included on objects like those featured here to indicate ownership.
The device may also have connections with the Hohenstaufan dynasty, which ruled the Holy Roman Empire from 1138 to 1254. The Emperor Henry VI (1165–97) kept black African retainers. His son Frederick II (1194–1250), who was also king of Sicily, took a keen interest in the black Muslim population that had remained in Sicily after the island's return to Christian rule in 1061. He established an enclave for these Muslims near his palace in Lucera in southern Italy, and recruited his musicians and elite bodyguard from the community.
Frederick's use of black Africans can be explained by his desire to present himself as a 'world ruler'. Their presence symbolised the extent of his power. Other families may have adopted the moor's head on their arms to associate themselves with the Hohenstaufan dynasty. By 1400 a moor, as a crowned head in profile, or occasionally as a full figure, was relatively common in German heraldry. In time, its usage spread to almost every European country. By the 16th century, the moor's head had become a conventional motif.
The moor's head device was also used in Italian heraldry, especially by families in the north and centre of the peninsula. The earliest known example appears in the 11th century. Its use by families such as the Saraceni of Siena, the Morandi of Genoa, the Morese of Bologna, the Negri of Vicenza and the Pagani of Saluzzo suggests that the device was intended as a pun on surnames similar to the Italian words for moor, negro and saracen. However, the Pucci family also used it. The moor in Italian art was usually depicted wearing a white band tied above the eyes, instead of the German imperial crown, to represent victory over the moors during the Crusades. These families may have originally acquired their surnames from crusader ancestors. The moor's head motif is still in use today. The coat of arms of the current pope, Benedict XVI, features the profile of a black man wearing a crown and gold earring.
Obvioulsly Blacks have been included in descriptions of Moors for a few hundred years. In Italy the earliest known heraldic example appears in the 11th century.
So why are there so many blacks included in what Euroepans were calling "Moors" in their herladry?
Even the word "blackamoor" which dates back to 1540 has the word "moor" in it. This indicates blacks can be considered Moors.
Arms of Arthur Annesley, Earl of Annesley, with a Roman knight and a Moorish prince supporting and a moor's head in the crest, from the Lambeth Palace Heraldry Manuscript, 1664 (pen & ink and w/c on paper)
The invasion of Iberia was carried out by a mixture of berber and Arab soldiers from North Africa.
^^^ this is the Almoravid empire, Moors
^^^ These berbers were also called "Moors" > They were alreadly a mixed people. Their empire went down as far as the Senegal River as you can see on the map and they also conquered Ghana. These more Southerly areas certainly had dark black Africans in them. They converted many of them to Islam and married into their noibility. All of these people including dark Black African converts would have been called Moors.
Depiction of the 11th C. Almoravid general Abu Bakr ibn Umar, in the 1413 portolan chart of Mecia Viladestes.
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:they were called Blackamoors + "Black" to Moor to distinguish between the original Moors (who were never Black).
No!! you idiotic intellectual fraud it meant Black as a Moor stop twisting things,twannie Moors were relatively lite skinned, the term Moor didn't come to include "Blacks" it started out as Black and came to include non Blacks and Muslims of all sorts.
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Faheemdunkers: "In one sense the word 'Moor' means the Mohammedan Berbers and Arabs of north-western Africa, with some Syrians, who conquered most of Spain in the eighth century and dominated the country for hundreds of years, leaving behind some magnificent examples of their architecture as a lasting memorial of their presence. These so-called 'Moors' were far in advance of any of the peoples of northern Europe at that time, not only in architecture but also in literature, science, technology, industry, and agriculture; and their civilization had a permanent influence on Spain. They were Europids, unhybridized with members of any other race. The Berbers were (and are) Mediterranids, probably with some admixture from the Cromagnid subrace of ancient times. The Arabs were Orientalids, the Syrians probably of mixed Orientalid and Armenoid stock." - John Baker, Race, Oxford University Press, 1974, p.226
The historic Moors were predominantly Caucasoids (unless you consider the few slaves they had and hybrids).
"The Berber populations nearer the Mediterranean coast were probably Caucasoids. There is little doubt that they came from the Middle East, and they have occupied the region since the Neolithic or even earlier." - Luigi Luca Cavalli-Sforza, Genes, Peoples and Languages, Penguin, 2001, p.122
Moors, BERBERS are negros here is the proof from an ancient Arab named Ibn Battuta
Ibn Battuta;
was a Moroccan explorer. He is known for his extensive travels, accounts of which were published in the Rihla (lit. "Journey"). Over a period of thirty years, Battuta visited most of the known Islamic world as well as many non-Muslim lands. His journeys included trips to North Africa, the Horn of Africa, West Africa and Eastern Europe in the West, and to the Middle East, South Asia, Central Asia, Southeast Asia and China in the East, a distance surpassing threefold his near-contemporary Marco Polo. Battuta is considered one of the greatest travellers of all time.
Ibn Battuta is the MOST credible witness to what the TRUE BERBERS looked like this is what he said when he visited SOMALIA in 1331 A.D
" From Aden, Ibn Battuta embarked on a ship heading for Zeila on the coast of Somalia. He then moved on to Cape Guardafui further down the Somalia seaboard, spending about a week in each location. Later he would visit Mogadishu, the then pre-eminent city of the "Land of the Berbers" Balad al-Barbar, the medieval Arabic term for the Horn of Africa)
THERE you go This destroys anything you post or have posted about the berbers being white people STOP LYING!
I will quote IBN BATTUTA HE SAID that the CITY of Mogadishu, the then pre-eminent city of the "Land of the Berbers" Balad al-Barbar, the medieval Arabic term for the Horn of Africa)
So this dis proves you and your FAKE scholars THE BERBERS have always been SO CALLED BLACK/ Brown
Posts: 111 | Registered: Sep 2011
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So this dis proves you and your FAKE scholars THE BERBERS have always been SO CALLED BLACK/ Brown
The largest group of berbers is the Kabyle. There's also the Mozabites.
Look up both groups in google images and tell me they are Black rather than mixed.
quote:Originally posted by TRUTH HITMAN:
I will quote IBN BATTUTA HE SAID that the CITY of Mogadishu, the then pre-eminent city of the "Land of the Berbers" Balad al-Barbar, the medieval Arabic term for the Horn of Africa)
The topic is the Moors who invaded Iberia. These were people that included bebers from the Maghreb not from the horn
The Moroccan traveller Ibn Battuta's appearance on the Somali coast in 1331, the city was at the zenith of its prosperity. He described Mogadishu as "an exceedingly large city" with many rich merchants, which was famous for its high quality fabric that it exported to Egypt, among other places.He added that the city was ruled by a Somali Sultan originally from Berbera in northern Somalia who spoke both Somali (referred to by Battuta as Mogadishan, the Benadir dialect of Somali) and Arabic with equal fluencyBarbara, also referred to as Bilad al-Barbar (Land of the Berbers), was an ancient region on the northern coast of the Somalia.
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: Fahdumdum
quote:they were called Blackamoors + "Black" to Moor to distinguish between the original Moors (who were never Black).
No!! you idiotic intellectual fraud it meant Black as a Moor stop twisting things,twannie Moors were relatively lite skinned, the term Moor didn't come to include "Blacks" it started out as Black and came to include non Blacks and Muslims of all sorts.
The foundation of the empire of al-Andalus in Spain was begun by the Great Umayyad Caliph Al-Walid I who sent the berber Tariq ibn-Ziyad leading a small force from North Africa that landed at Gibraltar on April 30, 711.
As we know the Khoisans in Southen Africa have lighter skin because they are further form the equator, have been there longer than bantu and there is relatively less UV there than at the equator. Likewise the North of Africa is at a similr distance from the equator. So you wouldn't expect someone indigenous to there to be as dark as someone from Ghana.
______________________________________________
After the Umayyad came the Almoravids ( 1040–1147)
^^^ they came down further south as far and intermarried with darker skinned people there as well as conquering Ghana around 1075
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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Métier à tisser Kabyle. Albuminabzug. 21 x 27 cm. Blattgröße: 28 x 34 cm. Links unten Exemplarnummer "2056" bezeichnet sowie rechts unten auf dem Bild betitelt. (kabyles at the loom, albumen print)
posted
Kabyle berber 1860 i.e. long after the fall of Moors (blacks) and the advance of Europeans mixing.
Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009
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quote:Originally posted by anguishofbeing: [QB] Confusion between then and today
Largest representative of Jews today
do the Muslim and Chrsitian version also,
There are only about 13.3 million Jews in the whole world
Stop spreading rumors and nonsense.
No one knows exactly how many Jews are in the US let alone the world. In spite of their passing themselves off as a separate race, Jews have setup all of the census to not include their breakdown. The census includes; African-American, White, Hispanic, but no "Jewish" classifications.
The US Census has no "Jewish" classification because Ahkenazi Jews wish to keep their exact numbers secret. However, if you observe the number of US Jewish lawmakers, TV production/Actors, Corporate CEO/CFOs, internet presence, bankers, Wall street execs, ect. you can easily see the number of US Jews is far greater than the 2-4% they want you to believe.
Posts: 4693 | From: Saturn | Registered: Apr 2012
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quote:Originally posted by anguishofbeing: Kabyle berber 1860 i.e. long after the fall of Moors (blacks) and the advance of Europeans mixing.
I think the people in the 1860 photo may be more mixed with Arabs than Europeans. They were able to avoid and retreat from the Ottomans into the mountains.
Since the 4000 BC, the indigenous peoples of northern Africa (identified by the Romans as Berbers) were pushed back from the coast by successive waves of Phoenician, Roman, Vandal, Byzantine, Arab, Turkish, and, finally, French invaders.
Phoenician traders arrived on the North African coast around 900 BC and established Carthage (in present-day Tunisia) around 800 BC. During the classical period, Berber civilization was already at a stage in which agriculture, manufacturing, trade, and political organization supported several states. Trade links between Carthage and the Berbers in the interior grew, but territorial expansion also resulted in the enslavement or military recruitment of some Berbers and in the extraction of tribute from others.
The Carthaginian state declined because of successive defeats by the Romans in the Punic Wars, and in 146 BC the city of Carthage was destroyed. As Carthaginian power waned, the influence of Berber leaders in the hinterland grew.
Massinissa By the 2nd century BC, several large but loosely administered Berber kingdoms had emerged. After that king Massinissa managed to unify Numidia under his rule.
Madghis (Madghacen) was a king of independent kingdoms of the Numidians, between 12 and 3 BC.
Berber territory was annexed by the Roman Empire in AD 24. Increases in urbanization and in the area under cultivation during Roman rule caused wholesale dislocations of Berber society, and Berber opposition to the Roman presence was nearly constant. The prosperity of most towns depended on agriculture, and the region was known as the breadbasket of the empire.
Christianity arrived in the 2nd century AD. By the end of the 4th century, the settled areas had become Christianized, and some Berber tribes had converted en masse.
According to historians of the Middle Ages, the Berbers are divided into two branches, two are from their ancestor Mazigh. In sum, the two branches Botr and Barnès are also divided into tribes. each Maghreb region is made up of several tribes. The large Berber tribes or peoples are Sanhadja, Houaras, Zenata, Masmouda, Kutama, Awarba, Berghwata ... etc. Each tribe is divided into sub tribes. All these tribes have independence and territorial decisions.
Several Berber dynasties have emerged during the Middle Ages to the Maghreb, Sudan, in Andalusia, Italy, in Mali, Niger, Senegal, Egypt ... etc.. Ibn Khaldoun made a table of Berber Dynasties: Zirid, Banu Ifran, Maghrawa, Almoravid, Hammadid, Almohad, Merinid, Abdalwadid, Wattasid, Meknassa, Hafsid dynasty
The 8th and 11th centuries AD, brought Islam and the Arabic language.The introduction of Islam and Arabic had a profound impact on North Africa (or the Maghreb) beginning in the 7th century. The new religion and language introduced changes in social and economic relations, established links with a rich culture, and provided a powerful idiom of political discourse and organisation. From the great Berber dynasties of the Almoravids and Almohads to the militants seeking an Islamic state in the 1990s, the call to return to true Islamic values and practices has had social resonance and political power.
The first Arab military expeditions into the Maghreb, between 642 and 669, resulted in the spread of Islam. The Umayyads (a Muslim dynasty based in Damascus from 661 to 750)
>>>> This period was marked by constant conflict, political instability, and economic decline. Following a large incursion of Arab bedouin from Egypt beginning in the first half of the 11th century, the use of Arabic spread to the countryside, and sedentary Berbers were gradually Arabised.Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by anguishofbeing: [QB] Confusion between then and today
Largest representative of Jews today
do the Muslim and Chrsitian version also,
There are only about 13.3 million Jews in the whole world
Stop spreading rumors and nonsense.
No one knows exactly how many Jews are in the US let alone the world. In spite of their passing themselves off as a separate race, Jews have setup all of the census to not include their breakdown. The census includes; African-American, White, Hispanic, but no "Jewish" classifications.
The US Census has no "Jewish" classification because Ahkenazi Jews wish to keep their exact numbers secret. However, if you observe the number of US Jewish lawmakers, TV production/Actors, Corporate CEO/CFOs, internet presence, bankers, Wall street execs, ect. you can easily see the number of US Jews is far greater than the 2-4% they want you to believe.
what is your guess as to the worldwide popualtion of Jews? I said 13.3 million
would you say it's more like 100 million?
you'd think with that much power they have they would be spreading the Jewsih religion all over the place, synagogues and so on.
I was thinking maybe some churches have secret synagogues below ground level
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by anguishofbeing: [QB] 13.3 million + 6 million = 19.3 million
Well there should've been 19.3 million Jews today. lol
now you've got your facts straight although between 5-6 million also 2 to 3 million Soviet POWs, 2 million ethnic Poles, up to 1,500,000 Romani, 200,000 handicapped, political and religious dissenters, 15,000 homosexuals and 5,000 Jehovah's Witnesses,
but do you agree with her Narmertot that the worldwide population must be several times larger than what is recorded?
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by anguishofbeing: [QB] 13.3 million + 6 million = 19.3 million
Well there should've been 19.3 million Jews today. lol
now you've got your facts straight although between 5-6 million also 2 to 3 million Soviet POWs, 2 million ethnic Poles, up to 1,500,000 Romani, 200,000 handicapped, political and religious dissenters, 15,000 homosexuals and 5,000 Jehovah's Witnesses,
but do you agree with her Narmertot that the worldwide population must be several times larger than what is recorded?
Do you have evidence of over million dead on eastern front. And while at it for Nazis gassing Jews during WW2?
Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009
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quote:Originally posted by anguishofbeing: Kabyle berber 1860 i.e. long after the fall of Moors (blacks) and the advance of Europeans mixing.
Phoenician traders = no blacks
I didn't say that asshole, that's how you operate setting up straw men.
I will say it clearly for the idiots berbers as a whole are a mixed people and part of that mix includes indigenous black Africans
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by anguishofbeing: [QB] Confusion between then and today
Largest representative of Jews today
do the Muslim and Chrsitian version also,
There are only about 13.3 million Jews in the whole world
Stop spreading rumors and nonsense.
No one knows exactly how many Jews are in the US let alone the world. In spite of their passing themselves off as a separate race, Jews have setup all of the census to not include their breakdown. The census includes; African-American, White, Hispanic, but no "Jewish" classifications.
The US Census has no "Jewish" classification because Ahkenazi Jews wish to keep their exact numbers secret. However, if you observe the number of US Jewish lawmakers, TV production/Actors, Corporate CEO/CFOs, internet presence, bankers, Wall street execs, ect. you can easily see the number of US Jews is far greater than the 2-4% they want you to believe.
what is your guess as to the worldwide popualtion of Jews? I said 13.3 million
would you say it's more like 100 million?
you'd think with that much power they have they would be spreading the Jewsih religion all over the place, synagogues and so on.
I was thinking maybe some churches have secret synagogues below ground level
Why do Jews, who pretty much control the US census, refuse to include a Jewish category to the census? Uninformed people have been using the 2% of population lie for the last 50 years in spite of the number 1 immigration to the US being European (Russian, Ukraine, Poland, German) Jews.
Posts: 4693 | From: Saturn | Registered: Apr 2012
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posted
it's great how any thread can become a holocaust denial debate,
soon anguishedofbeing will say the Herero and Namaqua Genocide never happened due to lack of evidence
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
NarmerThot is right there are more then 13 million Jews in the world.If you look at the high number of Jewish people in prestigious places there most be more Jewish people in the world.A lot of Jew in the world are crypto Jew like Senator John Kerry, S of S Madeline Albright, French Pres Nicholas sarkozi, German Pres Helmut Kohl,Pres Bill Clinton and S of S Hillary Clinton(daughter Chelsea married a Rich Jew).The crypto Jew are secret Jew or secular Jew that pose as Christian but still support the Jewish cause.A famous Chicago journalist stated that Lioness hobby President Barry Davis Obama mother was Jewish,A Chicago Rabby stated President Barrack Obama will be the first Jewish President(false Two Roosevelts, Clinton and other).There are a lot of Crypto Jew in the Islamic world middle east and North Africa.
I think the number of white Jew worlwide is 40 millions. 20 millions in the USA, 10 millions in Europe, 10 millions in the Islamic world.It maybe 50 million orthodox Jew have a lot of baby.I dont even count the million of black Jews of Nigeria, Ghana, Senegal, Uganda, Ethiopia, Zimbabwe, South Africa.Some of the black Jew are crypto also.If black Jew are included we may have 80 millions Jews in the world.
:]Why do Jews, who pretty much control the US census, refuse to include a Jewish category to the census?
the Bureau of the Census is not the source for information on religions such as Christainity, Judaism or Islam
quote:Originally posted by Narmertot:
Uninformed people have been using the 2% of population lie for the last 50 years in spite of the number 1 immigration to the US being European (Russian, Ukraine, Poland, German) Jews. [/QB]
you would think people who had that much comtrol would inflate their numbers rather than deflate them.
Maybe their magical powers are somehow involved.
For instance New York City has 8,175,133 people The number of Jews is said to be to 1.54 million in 2011
Narmertot, give me a ballpark guess as to the percentage of jews in the world, take out your Jew-o-meter
Minister Farakhan is the jews biggest hype man
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by mena7: [QB] NarmerThot is right there are more then 13 million Jews in the world.If you look at the high number of Jewish people in prestigious places there most be more Jewish people in the world.A lot of Jew in the world are crypto Jew like Senator John Kerry, S of S Madeline Albright, French Pres Nicholas sarkozi, German Pres Helmut Kohl,Pres Bill Clinton and S of S Hillary Clinton(daughter Chelsea married a Rich Jew).The crypto Jew are secret Jew or secular Jew that pose as Christian but still support the Jewish cause.
Crypto-Judaism is the secret pratcice of Judaism while publicly professing to be Christian;. The term crypto-Jew is also used to describe descendants who maintain some Jewish traditions of their ancestors, often secretly, while publicly adhering to other faiths, most commonly Catholicism. Crypto-Judaism dates back to earlier periods when Jews and Muslims were forced or pressured to convert to Christianity by the rulers of places they lived in. The phenomenon is especially associated with early modern Spain, following the expulsion of the Jews in 1492 and the Spanish Inquisition.
Obviously it shows that Jews didn't have that much power otherwise they would not have been forced to convert and remained public Jews.
And keep in mind if Jews were that powerful they would take a lot of pride in having a U.S. president. If you are forced to hide all the time you don't have that much power.
If you look at U.S. politicians today many have no Jewish background but still support Israel or Jewsish causes to some extent. Others don't.
Other U.S. politicians might be Jewish or part Jewish in ancestry.
If they are part Jewish in ancestry and say they are Christina and go to a Christian church you can't assume that they are crypto Jews like in medieval Spain and that they secretly practice Judaism. They might or might not. That is like saying Barack is secretly practicing Islam because his father was Muslim. They may secretly practice judaism or they may just have some Jewish ancestry but prefer Christianity or atheism.
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: [QUOTE]the Bureau of the Census is not the source for information on religions such as Christainity, Judaism or Islam
True, but it is Jews themselves who state that they are not simply a religion, but a genetically separate race of people whereas the main path to becoming a Jew is to be born from a Jewish mother implying a genetic inheritance.
This factoid based genetic component to "Jewishness" places them apart from Baptist, Muslim or Christian, and along side racial classification.
Now, I don't believe that Jews are a separate race but this is infact how Ashkenazi Jews position themselves. So, according to Ashkenazi Jew convention, census classification should be; 1) White (Gentile) 2. White (Jew) 3. White (Hispanic) 4. African American 5. Native American 6. Non-White (Hispanic) 7. Asian etc., ect.
But since Ashkenazi Jews employ all available methods to hide their identities/numbers/etc., they are not counted in any public census in America, or the world. I'm positive that this secrecy is intended to low ball any accurate estimate of their true representation which is definitely much greater than the 2% factoid being encouraged & promoted.
Posts: 4693 | From: Saturn | Registered: Apr 2012
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: [ [QUOTE]the Bureau of the Census is not the source for information on religions such as Christainity, Judaism or Islam [/qb]
True, but it is Jews themselves who state that they are not simply a religion, but a genetically separate race of people whereas the main path to becoming a Jew is to be born from a Jewish mother implying a genetic inheritance.
This factoid based genetic component to "Jewishness" places them apart from Baptist, Muslim or Christian, and along side racial classification.
genetics does not set people apart by religion
quote:Originally posted by Narmerthoth:
Now, I don't believe that Jews are a separate race
then maybe you should stop blowing wind
quote:Originally posted by Narmerthoth:
but this is infact how Ashkenazi Jews position themselves. So, according to Ashkenazi Jew convention, census classification should be; 1) White (Gentile) 2. White (Jew) 3. White (Hispanic) 4. African American 5. Native American 6. Non-White (Hispanic) 7. Asian etc., ect.
But since Ashkenazi Jews employ all available methods to hide their identities/numbers/etc., they are not counted in any public census in America, or the world. [/qb]
again, the Bureau of the Census is not the source for information on religions such as Christainity, Judaism or Islam
and why would Jews hide the fact that their world population is greater than 13.3 million ?
If you have power you don't have to hide. Also keep in mind many of Jewish background are atheist and many pratice the religion only lightly during holidays
so I assume that you believe the properly labeled list is
1. White 2. White (Hispanic) 3. African American 4. Native American 5. Non-White (Hispanic) 6. Asian
and that Jews are of one of the religions of the white, african and Asian groups
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: Obviously it shows that Jews didn't have that much power otherwise they would not have been forced to convert and remained public Jews.
The conversion was a strategic move.
In Christian Spain, faced with animosity and hostility, and threats, from the local Christian populace, in the late fourteenth century the Jewish community set upon an elaborate deceit towards both survival as Jews and power. Known as "conversos," or derisively by Christians as "Marranos" (swine), Spanish Jews converted en masse to Christianity, falsely professing the new faith for public consumption, but remaining Jews in virtually all respects in their private lives. The Jewish historian Cecil Roth notes that once the community embarked upon the ruse of conversion:
"The social and economic progress of the recent converts and their descendants became phenomenally rapid. However dubious their sincerity [as Christians], it was now out of the question to exclude them from any walk of life on the ground of their creed. The Law, the administration, the army, the universities, the Church itself, were all overrun by recent converts of more or less questionable sincerity, or by their immediate descendants. They thronged to financial administration; for which they had a natural aptitude; protest being now impossible. They pushed their way into the municipal councils, into the legislature, into the judiciary. They all but dominated Spanish life ...Within a couple of generations ... almost every office of importance at [Royal] Court was occupied by Conversos and their children." [ROTH, p. 20-21] link
Behind the scenes people...
Others are clearly uncomfortable with the huge amount of exposure being given Lieberman, preferring the time-honored role of Jews as behind-the-scenes movers and shakers, who traditionally advance their agenda while letting someone else occupy the public spotlight.
Good for the Jews? By Stuart Weiss Jerusalem Post, Internet edition, as a Jewish World Article, September 4th, 2000.
Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009
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posted
Liar ^ Don't be such a Jew always trying to Jew me down.
You realize it doesn't matter what I think about Judaism. What matters is what Jews Ashkenazi say, and Jews say they are a separate race, and it is their race that defines their (your) religion. That being their position, US census data should include racial numbers for the US Jewish presence.
Anguish, it wasn't just Spain, but they did exactly the same thing in Pre-WW-II Germany where they held many high offices and controlled things behind the scenes. Everything is strategic with Jews, including hiding their identities and numbers, as well as who their daughters marry.
Posts: 4693 | From: Saturn | Registered: Apr 2012
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quote:Originally posted by anguishofbeing: [ROTH, p. 20-21] link
another of your typical links to white supremacist Christian identity movement website, are you in some facist group of some kind? a proud memeber of_____________ ?
posted
]LOL No come back! Another lioness produce! HAHHAHAHAHAHAHA
1ad ho·mi·nem adjective \(ˈ)ad-ˈhä-mə-ˌnem, -nəm\ Definition of AD HOMINEM 1 : appealing to feelings or prejudices rather than intellect 2 : marked by or being an attack on an opponent's character rather than by an answer to the contentions made
Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009
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You realize it doesn't matter what I think about Judaism. What matters is what Jews Ashkenazi say,
then use quotes of them rather than makng up shyt
and also keep in mind there is a diveristy of opinion within people of Jewsih ancestry and what one person says does not represent all of the people.
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
Making up shyt like "secret gassings" by Nazis so as not to arouse world attention? lol
Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009
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You realize it doesn't matter what I think about Judaism. What matters is what Jews Ashkenazi say,
then use quotes of them rather than makng up shyt
and also keep in mind there is a diveristy of opinion within people of Jewsih ancestry and what one person says does not represent all of the people.
Diversity is unimportant. What IS important is which segment gets it's way. At present, the Jewish segment that gets it's way is the one opposed to presenting accurate tracking of Jews in America. These are the same ones who present themselves as a religion defined by their race.
From Websters:
Jew
In Jewish tradition, any child born of a Jewish mother is considered a Jew; in Reform Judaism a child is considered a Jew if either parent is Jewish.
Implies a genetic component to being Jewish.
How Jews are packaging themselves as a distinct race.
Legacy: A Genetic History of the Jewish People By Harry Ostrer
In his new book, “Legacy: A Genetic History of the Jewish People,” Harry Ostrer, a medical geneticist and professor at Albert Einstein College of Medicine in New York, claims that Jews are different, and the differences are not just skin deep. Jews exhibit, he writes, a distinctive genetic signature. Considering that the Nazis tried to exterminate Jews based on their supposed racial distinctiveness, such a conclusion might be a cause for concern. But Ostrer sees it as central to Jewish identity.
As can be seen, Jews are always propagandizing their position. The Nazis may have observed certain physical characteristics of Ashkenazi Jews but they certainly did not possess any genetic racial distinction to them.
Posts: 4693 | From: Saturn | Registered: Apr 2012
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quote:Originally posted by anguishofbeing: [QB] ]LOL No come back! A
why would I have to comeback crypto Jews existed and I put up information to that effect already.
But if you want more info, which is easy to get without having to go to white supremacist webistes:
A converso (Spanish: [komˈberso]; Portuguese: [kõˈvɛɾsu]; Catalan: convers [kumˈbɛrs], [komˈvɛɾs]; "a convert", from Latin conversvs, "converted, turned around") and its feminine form conversa was a Jew or Muslim who converted to Catholicism in Spain or Portugal, particularly during the 14th and 15th centuries, or one of their descendents. Mass conversions once took place under significant government pressure. The Treaty of Granada (1491) at the last surrender of Al-Andalus issued clear protections of religious rights; the Alhambra Decree (1492) began the reversal.
New Christians of Moorish origin were known as moriscos (Galician and Portuguese: mourisco). The term morisco may also refer to Crypto-Muslims, i.e. those who secretly continued to practice Islam. New Christians of Jewish origin were referred to as marranos. The term marrano may also refer to Crypto-Jews, i.e. those who secretly continued to practice Judaism.
Conversos were subject to suspicion and harassment from both the community they were leaving and that which they were joining. Both Christians and Jews called them tornadizo (renegade). James I, Alfonso X and John I passed laws forbidding the use of this epithet. This was part of a larger pattern of royal protection, as laws were promulgated to protect their property, forbid attempts to reconvert them, and regulate the behavior of the conversos themselves, preventing their cohabitation or even dining with Jews, lest they convert back.
The conversos did not enjoy legal equality. Alfonso VII prohibited the "recently converted" from holding office in Toledo. They had both supporters and bitter opponents within the Christian secular and religious leadership. Conversos could be found in various roles within the Iberian kingdoms, from bishop to royal mistress, showing a degree of general acceptance, yet they became targets of occasional pogroms during times of extreme social tension (as during an epidemic and after an earthquake). They were subject to the Spanish and Portuguese inquisitions.
While pure blood (so-called limpieza de sangre) would come to be placed at a premium, particularly among the nobility, in a 15th-century defense of conversos, Bishop Lope de Barrientos would list what Roth calls "a veritable 'Who's Who' of Spanish nobility" as having converso members or being of converso descent. He pointed out that given the near-universal conversion of Iberian Jews during Visigothic times, (quoting Roth) "[W]ho among the Christians of Spain could be certain that he is not a descendant of those conversos?"
According to a widely publicised study (December 2008) published in the American Journal of Human Genetics, 19.8 percent of modern Spaniards (and Portuguese) have DNA reflecting Sephardic Jewish ancestry (compared to 10.6 percent having DNA reflecting Moorish ancestors). The Sephardic result is in contradiction or not replicated in all the body of genetic studies done in Iberia and has been relativized by the authors themselves and questioned by Stephen Oppenheimer, who estimates that much earlier migrations, 5,000 to 10,000 years ago from the Eastern Mediterranean, might also have accounted for the Sephardic estimates. "They are really assuming that they are looking at this migration of Jewish immigrants, but the same lineages could have been introduced in the Neolithic".The same authors in also a recent study (October 2008) attributed most of those same lineages in Iberia and the Balearic Islands as of Phoenician origin. The rest of genetic studies done in Spain estimate the Moorish contribution ranging from 2.5/3.4% to 7.7%.
It's similar to blacks. Moorish converts to Christiaity acquiring status in renaissance Europe like
Johannes Morus (John the Moor) magister camerarius under Frederick II and Conrad.
Frederick, and later his bastard son and successor as king of Sicily, Manfred, employed a standing army of Muslims warrior, housed in their own military colony, the town of Lucera, charged with the border defense towards the Papal state. Lucera a Muslim community in Siciliy was also where the Imperial treausry was kept, for security reasons, under the supervision of the Imperial Chancellor, Johannes Maurus, i.e. "John the Moor" a household slave and magister camerarius under Frederick II and Conrad. Such were the chamberlains of monasteries or cathedrals, who had charge of the finances, gave notice of chapter meetings, and provided the materials necessary for the various services. Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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You realize it doesn't matter what I think about Judaism. What matters is what Jews Ashkenazi say,
then use quotes of them rather than makng up shyt
and also keep in mind there is a diveristy of opinion within people of Jewsih ancestry and what one person says does not represent all of the people.
Diversity is unimportant. What IS important is which segment gets it's way. At present, the Jewish segment that gets it's way is the one opposed to presenting accurate tracking of Jews in America.
and why would Jews hide the fact that their world population is greater than 13.3 million ?
If you have power you don't have to hide. Also keep in mind many of Jewish background are athiest and many pratice the religion only lightly during holidays. Some Jews are proud of Israel as a concept because it represents not hiding or being pressured to convert to Christianity.
It shows you have more persuasive power if you exaggerate your numbers.
In New York there's about 1.54 million Jews In the whole U.S. about 5.3- 6.6 Israel 5.7 world 13.3
either you have some counter estimates or you are just hyping the Jews and blowing hot air and not even giving estimates
and what about returing to the topic that the Viking were Moors?
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
So exactly where does this factoid based 2% number for US jews come from? Obviously, since Jews have blocked their representation in the US census it does not come from that.
Where the nonsensical 2% number comes from are independent Jewish population articles that have been approved by (1) American Jewish committee, (2) JDL, (3) The ADL, and other Jewish strategic decision making entities.
From, The Jewish Population in The United States, 2011 report, published by The University Of Miami:
In a previous article, we addressed the issue of why we believe our Data Bank estimate is an ov erestimate and why, for example, the 2000-01 National Jewish Population Survey is an underestimate. The Brandeis conference mentioned above was convened in the absence of a decennial national study of the US Jewish population . Without a systematic new national sample survey, utilizing a universally accepted methodology, we have presented above the variety of recent estimates in the past decades. One fact on which all can agree is the following : The share that American Jews represent of the US total population has decreased from an estimated 3.7 percent in the 1930s to about 2 percent currently. This change has occurred be cause the growth of the American Jewish population has not kept pace with the expansion of the US population, which has increased due to greater fertility and immigration than exhibited by American Jews
We would also like to thank Lawrence Grossman and the American Jewish Committee (www.ajc.org) for permission to continue publishing these population articles and the Association for the Social Scientific Study of Jewry (ASSJ)(www.assj.org), The Avraham Harman Institute of Contemporary Jewry at The Hebrew university of Jerusalem (http://icj. huji.ac.il), and The Jewish Federations of North America (JFNA)(www.jewish federations.org) for their co-sponsorship of this endeavor.
So, it appears that the decades long and enduring 2% estimate is the approved number that Jewish propaganda agencies agree offers the minimum amount of risk to Jews in America. Even this minimal report was made to be difficult to cut and paste by it's authors.
Posts: 4693 | From: Saturn | Registered: Apr 2012
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quote:Originally posted by Narmerthoth: So exactly where does this factoid based 2% number for US jews come from?
According to a study by Hebrew University’s Professor Sergio DellaPergola, the global Jewish population reached 13.75 million in the past year, with an increase of 88,000 people. Israel’s Maariv newspaper published excerpts of the study last week, reporting that one out of every 514 people in the world is Jewish, less than 0.2 percent of mankind.
About 43% of the world’s Jewish community lives in Israel, making Israel the country with the largest Jewish population. The Israeli Central Bureau of Statistics reported on the eve of Rosh Hashanah, the Jewish New Year, 5773, that the total population of Israel in 2012 grew to nearly 8 million. About 73% of the population is native born.
The Israeli Jewish population stands at 5,978,600, up 1.8%; the Arab population numbers at 1,636,600, up 2.4%; and the rest of the population including Christians and non-Jews reached 318,000 people, up 1.3%. Israel’s Jewish population makes up 75% of the state’s total people.
In all, the Jewish state’s population increased by 96,300 people in 2012, a growth rate that did not diverge from the average rate in the past eight years.
Part of Israel’s population increase comes in part of the new immigrants that have arrived to the country. In 2011, Israel welcomed 16,892 new immigrants as citizens, with the largest populations coming from Russia (3,678), followed by Ethiopia (2,666), United States (2,363), Ukraine (2,051) and France (1,775).
If you don't think there are reliable sources and some of these sources say: U.S. pop of Jews is about 5.3- 6.6 million then it's better to take the position of "I don't know" rather than to say that there is more or there is less.
Because assuming there's more is based on nothing at all.
If somebody said there are 6 million currently in the U.S. to say there's double that (and based on nothing) would be claim of huge increase from 6 to 12 million.
And if ther's actually 12 million what difference does that make?
the U.S. population is 314 million
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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