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-Just Call Me Jari-
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While debating Muhammadan Muslims on Youtube, ive been called wither a Zionist Jew/Israeli or a racist Christian(Zionist). Neither of which I am, as Im an agnostic who sees the Jewish Levitical Law to be just as superstitious and bigoted as the Sharia of the Muhammadans. That said its funny how Muhmmadans and their Far Right and Leftwing supporters HATE the Jews but the Koran and Allah is one of the biggest supporters of the Jews.

Allah the Zionist Rock God of the Kaaba chose the Jews over every form of life in the Universe.

quote:
0 Children of Israel, remember My favor which I bestowed on and how I preferred you over the Alamin[everyone in the Universe.]
not even in the Torah is such a statement made, The Jews are chosen over manikind not the universe by the God of Israel but Allah is more Zionist than the the God of Israel.

The Land of Israel promised to the Jews until the end times..

quote:
"To Moses We [Allah] gave nine clear signs. Ask the Israelites how he [Moses] first appeared amongst them. Pharoah said to him: 'Moses, I can see that you are bewitched.' 'You know full well,' he [Moses] replied, 'that none but the Lord of the heavens and the earth has revealed these visible signs. Pharoah, you are doomed.'"

"Pharoah sought to scare them [the Israelites] out of the land [of Israel]: but We [Allah] drowned him [Pharoah] together with all who were with him. Then We [Allah] said to the Israelites: 'Dwell in this land [the Land of Israel]. When the promise of the hereafter [End of Days] comes to be fulfilled, We [Allah] shall assemble you [the Israelites] all together [in the Land of Israel]."

"We [Allah] have revealed the Qur'an with the truth, and with the truth it has come down. We have sent you [Muhammed] forth only to proclaim good news and to give warning."

Qur'an, "Night Journey," chapter 17:100-104]

Every single Muhammadan who utters their ususal Vile and stupid slurs and rants against the Jews are ALL at War with Allah in their Kufr against his Koran. From Amendinijhad to the NOI and the Islamic Mullahs and Imams, every single one of them are commiting Kufr with their Blasphemy(I will expose their further Kufr when they blaspheme against the Christians who practice a religion based on the Gospels which were revealed to Jesus by Allah) and they will Burn in Muhammads inferno. LMAO

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the lioness,
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^^^^ you are looking at the positve quotes but leavng out the negative:

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/koranjews.html

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Narmerthoth
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LOL, you two children of Zionists just talk among yourselves.

--------------------
Selenium gives real life and true reality

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-Just Call Me Jari-
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Im well aware of the Contradictions in the Koran during the Medina period but it still doesnt change that Allah is a Zionist.
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Narmerthoth
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quote:
Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-:
Im well aware of the Contradictions in the Koran during the Medina period but it still doesnt change that Allah is a Zionist.

I thought the modern definition states that a Zionist must be birthed from a Zionist mother?
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-Just Call Me Jari-
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^^^
Zionism/Zionist is the idea that the Jews have historical and Religious right to the Land of Israel.

Allah in Muhammads Koran is clearly a Zionist. Your god chose the Jew that you hate so much over every single form of life not only on earth but in this Galaxy, the Andromeda Galaxy and every inch of space in the universe.

The Koran is clear and this seems to trouble you..lol. So please dispute me...

Prove your Koran is a lie..

lol.

Islam is the stupidest most idiotic cult belief system to ever be created.

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Djehuti
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^ I hate to insult any religion even Islam, but I have long noticed the Quran to be self-contradictory. In some passage, the Jews are praised while in other more numerous passages they are condemned and to be assaulted (no doubt to their refusal to accept Muhammad as a prophet). And it's not just the issue of Jews but on other issues is there contradiction. That said, I don't believe the Quran to be any word of God/Allah even less than the Bible which though written by man seems to hold less contradictions than the Quran.
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-Just Call Me Jari-
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Islam is not a religion but a Cult with political laws and dictates. For example Name me one Religion besides Islam where leaving it is a death sentence? Name me one religion that requires its followers to live under a law system(Shariah) based soley on the life of the Founder(Sunnah). This would be like Xtians following a law based on Jesus' actions and the Jews following a law based on Moses' Actions etc.

Islam is not a religion. It should be compared to the Mafia Crime Syndicate in America except with the "Godfather" being praised as a prophet of god.

The Caliphates were a Crime Syndacate, the first in history.

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Djehuti
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^ A cult by definition is a religious following. As far as being political it is BOTH political as well as religious. You are correct that Islam has many issues even more so than Christianity or Judaism. Judaism for example has Halakhah which is Jewish law based on Deuteronomy and Leviticus and is the equivalent of Muslim Shariah. The truth is, Shariah is actually based on Halakhah but at least there is no penalty of death for leaving the Judaic religion.

The whole subject of Islam is pretty touchy. It is followed by over a billion people and although not all are violent many do follow violent passages of jihad. It is no coincidence that wherever Muslim communities gain power or stronghold in a non-Muslim region, violence follows. This is something many Muslims and especially their leftist supporters hate to admit. At least Christianity had a reformation and then enlightenment period. Islam, a younger religion has not yet.

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-Just Call Me Jari-
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DJ. You forget that the concept seperating the Levitical and Mosaic/Halakah Law is that it is NOT based on the Life, Actions, Dictates, Words, and Behavior of Moses. the Sunnah is based SOLEY on Muhammads behavior. What he liked and did not like, for example Dogs and Bells, what he ate, who he liked and did'nt like, the Banning of Drinking Alcohol and the punishment of 80 Lashes is NO WHERE in the Koran but the Sunnah, the Hijab and Nikab, again the Sunnah. This is a Cult, Christians and Jews do not have laws based on the Actions and Behavior of their founder prophet.

The Subject is as Touchy as the Neo-Nazi cult. Plenty of people ascribe to the Neo-Nazi's but the Subject and ideology is hated, rightfully so, by all and any thinking and logical human being with a decent sense of honor and intelligence. The Same should be with Islam. Under Sharia it is MANDATORY to treat non Muslims as 2nd Class Citizens, and this only extends to Jews and Xtians aka Dhimies. All Atheists, Polytheists, Hindus, Buddhists, Animists are subject to being and are actively GENOCIDED in Islamic States.

Islam has had plenty of time to reform and was among the first in human history of all the major Religions to do so, only to revert back to the gutter of the 6th Century Arabia by Koran Abiding Muslims. Andalus, the Abasids, Fatimid Egypt the Persian and Indian Muslim empires are all examples of about as secular as you can get in an Islamic State.

The Billions of Muslims who don't abide by or read the Koran is meaningless. Most of them flock to our Secular Democracies from Sweden to India and demand every right under the sun while in their homelands they deny the very same rights not only to other Muslims of other sects but to non Muslims and Women.

The Sad part is what Islam has done to the Eastern Empires such as Egypt, Persia India etc. which were the bastions of free thought, philosophy, Art, Architecture, Mathmatics, science etc. The Persians and Egyptians even today, (in West of Course), Rank as some of the top Math and Science Professionals, Doctors and Engineers, all due to the Secularism of Western Thought. If they were living in Iraq, Egypt, or Pakistan they'd be a bunch of moronic, stupified, poverty stricken idiots under the dictates of Mullahs and Imams attending 3rd rate Madrassa Higher Learning pisspots such as Al-Azhar, but in the West they flourish like Roses.

Hell it was the French and British who dug up the Temples of Km.t and deciphered the Mdu-Ntr which allowed us to rediscover Kemet. The Muhammadan occupiers of Egypt and their coverted subjects had no care in the world about Kemet after their arabization.

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Djehuti
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^ I can't argue with any of the above because you are right. Of course despite the veracity of what you say, you will still be labeled as 'Islamophobe' by the Muhummadans and their brainless leftist lackies.
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mena7
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Jari is right there were secular, liberal and tolerant muslim states in the past like Moorish Spain, the Moghul of India rule by Akbar(Akbar tolerated all religion and India and treated them equaly) etc, but muslim still go back to their fanatical and violent way.

Egypt had a chance to rebound after the thousand years Roman colonisation but the invasion of fanatical muslim from the Arab desert put an end to Egypt hope.

The muslim of Egypt were so fanatical and backward that it took the French Napoleon invasion of Egypt to open the ancient civilisation of Egypt to the world or help the world rediscover Ancient Egypt. The muslim were seating one the Egyptian ruine for a thousand years and didnt do any research on them.

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Mike111
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quote:
Originally posted by mena7:
The muslim were seating one the Egyptian ruine for a thousand years and didnt do any research on them.

The Mosque of Abu Haggag

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 -


 -


The Mosque of Abu el Hagag (Abu'l Haggag).
Built on, or rather, in the first court of Rameses II's temple at Luxor.


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NOTE THE NONSENSE LIES THE ALBINOS TELL TO COVER THEIR MULATTOES.

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From Wiki:

Although its positioning atop the pharaonic columns seems both precarious and invasive, the Mosque of Abu Haggag (or Abu l-Haggag) must be seen as more than just a coincidental intruder. First, when the mosque was built, large parts of the temple were covered with earth. Secondly, it is not uncommon for a religious kinship between ancient Egyptian cult places and the local version of popular Islam to be recreated. When the pharaonic temple was unearthed in the late 19th century, locals fiercely resisted any attempt to tear down the mosque. For them, the geographical position was important, and a new mosque also dedicated to Abu Haggag has never become very popular.

Abu Haggag was a Sufi shaykh, born in Baghdad, but he spent the latter half of his 90 years in Luxor. He died here in 1243, but it is believed that the minaret is older than he was, dating back to the 11th century. The mosque itself has been rebuilt many times, and completely in the 19th century. Abu Haggag is Luxor's main saint, and his mosque is the core of local religious activities. Locals believe that his mosque is a particularly important religious spot, full of baraka, divine blessing.

When Shaikh Abu El Haggag came to Luxor, Islam at the time was not the major religion in Egypt; Coptic Christianity was the leading religion at the time. The city was a colony owned by a religious Coptic lady. She used to be called The Princess. Her soldiers saw Sheikh Abu El Haggag there and was immediately recognized as a foreigner, therefore he was taken to the Princess for questioning as they feared that he is a spy from a different tribe/region. He complained to her about the treatment he received and expressed that he wishes to become a local citizen. The lady was generous and offered him to stay as long as he wishes. He asked her to give him a land as big as a camel’s skin to sleep on it, she thought that would be maximum of 2 square meters, so she agreed as she was a generous Lady, he asked her to sign a contract confirming the deal which she agreed to.

At night, he took a camel’s skin and he cut it into a very thin line at the front of some local witnesses, something similar to a very thin washing line, he used it to border a big part of Luxor Temple. In the morning, soldiers saw this line and reported it to the Princess, and then she realised that he owns this bordered part of the temple as per their written agreement. As much as she was feeling deceived by his plan, they met few times afterwards, she was impressed by his knowledge and then she converted to Islam.

At the time, there was a church in the place of the mosque. Shaikh Abu El Haggag agreed with the princess to convert the building to a mosque, which stands till today. In the upper ground foundation the old part of the church, which is clear that it is not a part of the temple, can still be seen.

Lots of people claimed that he became a monk and was given a power to practice miracles, such as walking on water, healing rare diseases, and even people see him in the pilgrimage in Saudi Arabia while others sees him at the same time in Luxor. When he died he was buried in the mosque.

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Amun-Ra The Ultimate
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Usually religious imperialists like Muslims and Christians don't like that most ancient great civilizations were NOT based on their sacro-saint muhammed or christ but based on ancestral religion.

Green Saharan civilization = ancestral religion
Kush civilization = ancestral religion
Ancient Egypt = ancestral religion
Chinese empire = ancestral religion
Mayan civilization = ancestral religion
Olmec civilization = ancestral religion
Great Zimbabwe/Khami civilization = ancestral religion
Ancient Greek civilization = ancestral religion
Ancient Roman = ancestral religion

Abrahimic religions actually slowed down progress with their backward thinking based on a fixed book writings. In Europe, Christians destroyed what Ancient Greeks particularly and Romans started only to led Europe to the horrible middle ages . Only European distancing themselves from christianity in favor of a more scientific/natural view of life led Europe through the Renaissance (although Christianity wasn't completely rejected at that time like it is now). Even then, saying the earth was round or not at the center of the universe was once anti-christ. Scientific thinking, heresy. The real scientific basis of Europe is in Ancient Greece.

In ancestral religion thinking every people on earth have their own path to god through their ancestors. They are not intolerant of each people religions. At first, they didn't see anything wrong in christianity and islam because they were just another religion from other people. Another cult. Little they know those people wanted to religiously colonize us and eliminate and any other religions on earth (including each others of course). If they knew that they probably would have viewed those imperialist intolerant religions differently right from the start.

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anguishofbeing
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quote:
Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-:
^^^
Zionism/Zionist is the idea that the Jews have historical and Religious right to the Land of Israel.

Jackass Zionism has nothing to do with religion. Do you even know who Herzl was?
quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:
It is no coincidence that wherever Muslim communities gain power or stronghold in a non-Muslim region, violence follows. At least Christianity had a reformation and then enlightenment period.

Wasnt this about the same time that the said Christians enslaved Africans and went on to massacre more during colonialism? You are jackass #2.
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Djehuti
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^ Such acts were not committed because of Christianity but because of European greed and supremacy. Sure some proponents used Christianity as an excuse but it really wasn't. Look what Italy did to Ethiopia even though it was a Christian nation. Look at how blacks in the Americas were treated even though they were fellow Christians.
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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate:
Usually religious imperialists like Muslims and Christians don't like that most ancient great civilizations were NOT based on their sacro-saint muhammed or christ but based on ancestral religion.

Green Saharan civilization = ancestral religion
Kush civilization = ancestral religion
Ancient Egypt = ancestral religion
Chinese empire = ancestral religion
Mayan civilization = ancestral religion
Olmec civilization = ancestral religion
Great Zimbabwe/Khami civilization = ancestral religion
Ancient Greek civilization = ancestral religion
Ancient Roman = ancestral religion

Abrahimic religions actually slowed down progress with their backward thinking based on a fixed book writings. In Europe, Christians destroyed what Ancient Greeks particularly and Romans started only to led Europe to the horrible middle ages . Only European distancing themselves from christianity in favor of a more scientific/natural view of life led Europe through the Renaissance (although Christianity wasn't completely rejected at that time like it is now). Even then, saying the earth was round or not at the center of the universe was once anti-christ. Scientific thinking, heresy. The real scientific basis of Europe is in Ancient Greece.

In ancestral religion thinking every people on earth have their own path to god through their ancestors. They are not intolerant of each people religions. At first, they didn't see anything wrong in christianity and islam because they were just another religion from other people. Another cult. Little they know those people wanted to religiously colonize us and eliminate and any other religions on earth (including each others of course). If they knew that they probably would have viewed those imperialist intolerant religions differently right from the start.

do you practice ancestral veneration rituals?


I don't know if it's proper to call things like Greek or Egyptian religions "ancestral religions"

wiki

An ethnoreligious group (or ethno-religious group) is an ethnic group of people whose members are also unified by a common religious background. Ethnoreligious communities define their ethnic identity neither exclusively by ancestral heritage nor simply by religious affiliation, but often through a combination of both[citation needed] (a long shared history; a cultural tradition of its own; either a common geographical origin, or descent from a small number of common ancestors; a common language, not necessarily peculiar to the group; a common literature peculiar to the group; a common religion different from that of neighbouring groups; being a minority or being an oppressed or a dominant group within a larger community).

Examples of ethnic groups defined by ancestral religions are the Jews, the Druze of the Levant, the Copts of Egypt, the Yazidi of northern Iraq, the Zoroastrians of Iran and India, and the Serer of Senegal, the Gambia and Mauritania.

_____________________________________

I think when you say "ancestral realions" you mean ancestor veneration (some call it ancestor worship)

"Ancestral Religion" is just a religion that is passed on based ancestral heritage (as described above)

Veneration of the Dead is based on the belief that the deceased, often family members have a continued existence and/or possess the ability to influence the fortune of the living. Some groups venerate their ancestors; some faith communities, in particular the Catholic Church, venerate saints as intercessors with God.

Ancestor veneration is very prevalent throughout Africa and serves as the basis of many religions. It is often augmented by a belief in a supreme being, but prayers and/or sacrifices are usually offered to the ancestors who may ascend to becoming minor deities themselves. Ancestor veneration remains among many Africans, sometimes practiced alongside the later adopted religions of Christianity (as in Nigeria among the Igbo people) and Islam (among the different Mandé peoples and the Bamum) in much of the continent.

Ancestral veneration in some cultures (such as Chinese) (敬祖, pinyin: jìngzǔ), as well as ancestor worship (拜祖, pinyin: bàizǔ), seeks to honor and reminiscence the actions of the deceased; the ultimate homage to the dead. The importance of paying respect to parents (and elders) lies with the fact that all physical bodily aspects of one's being were created by one's parents, who continued to tend to one's well-being until one is on firm footings. The respect and the homage to parents, is to return this gracious deed to them in life and after, the ultimate homage. The shi (尸; "corpse, personator") was a Zhou Dynasty (1045 BCE-256 BCE) sacrificial representative of a dead relative. During a shi ceremony, the ancestral spirit supposedly would enter the personator, who would eat and drink sacrificial offerings and convey spiritual messages.

________________________________________________

Ancestral Veneration/Worship can be the basis of a religion but because the veneration of worship of one's personal relatives is practiced in rituals it does not mean that the religion is an "Ancestral religion". The Ancestral Veneration/Worship is sometimes something practiced alongside a religion that has various gods and deities which are not considered ancestors.

Only in certain religions are one's ancestors that are venerated/ worshiped the same as gods/deities that are also worshiped

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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate:

Abrahimic religions actually slowed down progress with their backward thinking based on a fixed book writings. In Europe, Christians destroyed what Ancient Greeks particularly and Romans started

It depends on what you mean by backward and slowing down progress. For example there are various polytheistic religions but they are not necessarily "progressive" or "not backward"
Religious tolerance assume you have a state large enough to tolerate various relious practices with in it. The basic aspect of Abrahamic religion and Zorastrianism is montheism.
African religions are widely varied. Some have a supreme creator god but the people more often interatct with other dieties who are part of the creator god's larger pantheon.

The Christian church became an institution in Rome.

Petrarch


Triumph of Christianity by Tommaso Laureti (1530–1602), ceiling painting in the Sala di Constantino, Vatican Palace. Images like this one celebrate the triumph of Christianity over the paganism of Antiquity
The idea of a Dark Age originated with Petrarch in the 1330s. Writing of those who had come before him, he said: "Amidst the errors there shone forth men of genius; no less keen were their eyes, although they were surrounded by darkness and dense gloom". Christian writers, including Petrarch himself,

had long used traditional metaphors of "light versus darkness" to describe "good versus evil". Petrarch was the first to co-opt the metaphor and give it secular meaning by reversing its application. Classical Antiquity, so long considered the "dark" age for its lack of Christianity, was now seen by Petrarch as the age of "light" because of its cultural achievements, while Petrarch's time, allegedly lacking such cultural achievements, was seen as the age of darkness.

As an Italian, Petrarch saw the Roman Empire and the classical period as expressions of Italian greatness. He spent much of his time travelling through Europe rediscovering and republishing classic Latin and Greek texts. He wanted to restore the classical Latin language to its former purity. Humanists saw the preceding 900-year period as a time of stagnation. They saw history unfolding, not along the religious outline of Saint Augustine's Six Ages of the World, but in cultural (or secular) terms through the progressive developments of classical ideals, literature, and art.

Petrarch wrote that history had had two periods: the classic period of the Greeks and Romans, followed by a time of darkness, in which he saw himself as still living. In around 1343, in the conclusion to his epic Africa,

he wrote: "My fate is to live among varied and confusing storms. But for you perhaps, if as I hope and wish you will live long after me, there will follow a better age. This sleep of forgetfulness will not last for ever. When the darkness has been dispersed, our descendants can come again in the former pure radiance."In the 15th century, historians Leonardo Bruni and Flavio Biondo developed a three tier outline of history. They used Petrarch's two ages, plus a modern, "better age", which they believed the world had entered. The term "Middle Ages," in Latin media tempestas (1469) or medium aevum (1604), was later used to describe the period of supposed decline.


Arica is an epic poem in Latin hexameters by the 14th century Italian poet Petrarch (Francesco Petrarca). It tells the story of the Second Punic War, in which the Carthaginian general Hannibal invaded Italy, but Roman forces were eventually victorious after an invasion of north Africa led by Publius Cornelius Scipio Africanus, the epic poem's hero.

^^^^ so we see where the idea of dark ages came from. It came from an Italian who wrote a poem glorifying the decadent Roman Empire's imperial conquests in Africa. And as we know the Imperialism of the miltaristic ancient Rome was an inspiration for Hitler who imitated their acrhitecture and ornament.
Petrarch was a devout Catholic.

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Swenet
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quote:
Originally posted by anguishofbeing:
quote:
Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-:
^^^
Zionism/Zionist is the idea that the Jews have historical and Religious right to the Land of Israel.

Jackass Zionism has nothing to do with religion. Do you even know who Herzl was?
quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:
It is no coincidence that wherever Muslim communities gain power or stronghold in a non-Muslim region, violence follows. At least Christianity had a reformation and then enlightenment period.

Wasnt this about the same time that the said Christians enslaved Africans and went on to massacre more during colonialism? You are jackass #2.

LMAO. Angelina loves to talk about Jews. If you're looking for Angelina, just create a thread about Jews and sure nuff, she will rear her ugly head.
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africurious
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quote:
Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-:
DJ. You forget that the concept seperating the Levitical and Mosaic/Halakah Law is that it is NOT based on the Life, Actions, Dictates, Words, and Behavior of Moses. the Sunnah is based SOLEY on Muhammads behavior. What he liked and did not like, for example Dogs and Bells, what he ate, who he liked and did'nt like, the Banning of Drinking Alcohol and the punishment of 80 Lashes is NO WHERE in the Koran but the Sunnah, the Hijab and Nikab, again the Sunnah. This is a Cult, Christians and Jews do not have laws based on the Actions and Behavior of their founder prophet.

The Subject is as Touchy as the Neo-Nazi cult. Plenty of people ascribe to the Neo-Nazi's but the Subject and ideology is hated, rightfully so, by all and any thinking and logical human being with a decent sense of honor and intelligence. The Same should be with Islam. Under Sharia it is MANDATORY to treat non Muslims as 2nd Class Citizens, and this only extends to Jews and Xtians aka Dhimies. All Atheists, Polytheists, Hindus, Buddhists, Animists are subject to being and are actively GENOCIDED in Islamic States.

Islam has had plenty of time to reform and was among the first in human history of all the major Religions to do so, only to revert back to the gutter of the 6th Century Arabia by Koran Abiding Muslims. Andalus, the Abasids, Fatimid Egypt the Persian and Indian Muslim empires are all examples of about as secular as you can get in an Islamic State.

The Billions of Muslims who don't abide by or read the Koran is meaningless. Most of them flock to our Secular Democracies from Sweden to India and demand every right under the sun while in their homelands they deny the very same rights not only to other Muslims of other sects but to non Muslims and Women.

The Sad part is what Islam has done to the Eastern Empires such as Egypt, Persia India etc. which were the bastions of free thought, philosophy, Art, Architecture, Mathmatics, science etc. The Persians and Egyptians even today, (in West of Course), Rank as some of the top Math and Science Professionals, Doctors and Engineers, all due to the Secularism of Western Thought. If they were living in Iraq, Egypt, or Pakistan they'd be a bunch of moronic, stupified, poverty stricken idiots under the dictates of Mullahs and Imams attending 3rd rate Madrassa Higher Learning pisspots such as Al-Azhar, but in the West they flourish like Roses.

Hell it was the French and British who dug up the Temples of Km.t and deciphered the Mdu-Ntr which allowed us to rediscover Kemet. The Muhammadan occupiers of Egypt and their coverted subjects had no care in the world about Kemet after their arabization.

You seem to be using a segment of muslims (those anonymous and varied ones on youtube and zealots of various times and places) to describe the entire body of muslims. Sounds similar to how eurocentrics use quacks likes Prof. Jeffries to define "afrocentrists" so they can easily "win" the argument.

It should be obvious to anyone who's studied islamic history that much of the deeds and sayings attributed to mohammed are not his. This was just used as justification by various islamic rulers to gain adherence to certain laws they pushed, to support their claims to leadership, or whatever else was useful to their ends. How is this different than in christianity and judaism? Christians made up passages and even whole books in the bible to support their particular doctrine. There are even contradictory deeds and sayings by jesus, depending on who wrote the particular passage of the bible. Since in the case of christianity, the deeds and sayings of jesus replace mohammed as justification to follow certain precepts. Sure, there is no equivalent to the sunnah in christianity but similar made up deeds and sayings used (though to a lesser extent than in islam). Judaism too has a whole lot that is made up in terms of what prophet did what and said what. All 3 holy books of the "abrahamic" religions are filled with contradictions and **** that was made up to justify what the particular author (or authority) wanted to foister on the people. All 3 books have many contributing authors over long periods of time (hence the contradictions) but official religious doctrine gives the false impression that these books are 1 pristine ideology.

You make a good point that officially non-muslims are officially 2nd class citizens in islam but non-jews and non-christians were de facto 2nd class citizens in lands ruled by jews (palestine after the return from captivity, the Hasmonean kingdom, Kazaria, etc.) and christians (all through out europe, and parts of SW asia and N Africa). The degree of "2nd classness" depended upon the vissicitudes of the time, place and leader. So, again, what you describe in islam can be found in the other 2 abrahamic religions.

Also like the christianity and judaism, islam has had to struggle with stifling religious doctrine/authority. Following islam doesn't preclude countries/people from progress (as you seem to suggest). It is simply the matter that europe has won the battle against the religious straight-jacket while most islamic societies have not.

Also, have you thought about the fact that the copts in egypt also didn't care about digging up kemetic temples as you say the muslims didn't? Islam alone is not to blame for egyptian lack of interest in kemet and in fact the lack of interest probably started long before the majority of egypt started to follow Islam.

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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate:

Abrahimic religions actually slowed down progress with their backward thinking based on a fixed book writings. In Europe, Christians destroyed what Ancient Greeks particularly and Romans started

It depends on what you mean by backward and slowing down progress. For example there are various polytheistic religions but they are not necessarily "progressive" or "not backward"
Religious tolerance assume you have a state large enough to tolerate various relious practices with in it. The basic aspect of Abrahamic religion and Zorastrianism is montheism.
African religions are widely varied. Some have a supreme creator god but the people more often interatct with other dieties who are part of the creator god's larger pantheon.

The Christian church became an institution in Rome.

Petrarch


Triumph of Christianity by Tommaso Laureti (1530–1602), ceiling painting in the Sala di Constantino, Vatican Palace. Images like this one celebrate the triumph of Christianity over the paganism of Antiquity
The idea of a Dark Age originated with Petrarch in the 1330s. Writing of those who had come before him, he said: "Amidst the errors there shone forth men of genius; no less keen were their eyes, although they were surrounded by darkness and dense gloom". Christian writers, including Petrarch himself,

had long used traditional metaphors of "light versus darkness" to describe "good versus evil". Petrarch was the first to co-opt the metaphor and give it secular meaning by reversing its application. Classical Antiquity, so long considered the "dark" age for its lack of Christianity, was now seen by Petrarch as the age of "light" because of its cultural achievements, while Petrarch's time, allegedly lacking such cultural achievements, was seen as the age of darkness.

As an Italian, Petrarch saw the Roman Empire and the classical period as expressions of Italian greatness. He spent much of his time travelling through Europe rediscovering and republishing classic Latin and Greek texts. He wanted to restore the classical Latin language to its former purity. Humanists saw the preceding 900-year period as a time of stagnation. They saw history unfolding, not along the religious outline of Saint Augustine's Six Ages of the World, but in cultural (or secular) terms through the progressive developments of classical ideals, literature, and art.

Petrarch wrote that history had had two periods: the classic period of the Greeks and Romans, followed by a time of darkness, in which he saw himself as still living. In around 1343, in the conclusion to his epic Africa,

he wrote: "My fate is to live among varied and confusing storms. But for you perhaps, if as I hope and wish you will live long after me, there will follow a better age. This sleep of forgetfulness will not last for ever. When the darkness has been dispersed, our descendants can come again in the former pure radiance."In the 15th century, historians Leonardo Bruni and Flavio Biondo developed a three tier outline of history. They used Petrarch's two ages, plus a modern, "better age", which they believed the world had entered. The term "Middle Ages," in Latin media tempestas (1469) or medium aevum (1604), was later used to describe the period of supposed decline.


Arica is an epic poem in Latin hexameters by the 14th century Italian poet Petrarch (Francesco Petrarca). It tells the story of the Second Punic War, in which the Carthaginian general Hannibal invaded Italy, but Roman forces were eventually victorious after an invasion of north Africa led by Publius Cornelius Scipio Africanus, the epic poem's hero.

^^^^ so we see where the idea of dark ages came from. It came from an Italian who wrote a poem glorifying the decadent Roman Empire's imperial conquests in Africa. And as we know the Imperialism of the miltaristic ancient Rome was an inspiration for Hitler who imitated their acrhitecture and ornament.
Petrarch was a devout Catholic.


now let's go on to Roman tolerance:


Roman investigations into early Christianity found it an irreligious, novel, disobedient, even atheistic sub-sect of Judaism: it appeared to deny all forms of religion and was therefore superstitio. By the end of the Imperial era, Nicene Christianity was the one permitted Roman religio; all other cults were heretical or pagan superstitiones.[175]

After the Great Fire of Rome in 64 AD, Emperor Nero accused the Christians as convenient scapegoats who were later persecuted and killed. From that point on, Roman official policy towards Christianity tended towards persecution. During the various Imperial crises of the 3rd century, “contemporaries were predisposed to decode any crisis in religious terms”, regardless of their allegiance to particular practices or belief systems. Christianity drew its traditional base of support from the powerless, who seemed to have no religious stake in the well-being of the Roman State, and therefore threatened its existence.[176] The majority of Rome’s elite continued to observe various forms of inclusive Hellenistic monism; Neoplatonism in particular accommodated the miraculous and the ascetic within a traditional Graeco-Roman cultic framework. Christians saw these ungodly practices as a primary cause of economic and political crisis.

In the wake of religious riots in Egypt, the emperor Decius decreed that all subjects of the Empire must actively seek to benefit the state through witnessed and certified sacrifice to "ancestral gods" or suffer a penalty: only Jews were exempt.[177] Decius' edict appealed to whatever common mos maiores might reunite a politically and socially fractured Empire and its multitude of cults; no ancestral gods were specified by name. The fulfillment of sacrificial obligation by loyal subjects would define them and their gods as Roman.[178] Roman oaths of loyalty were traditionally collective; the Decian oath has been interpreted as a design to root out individual subversives and suppress their cults,[179] but apostasy was sought, rather than capital punishment.[180] A year after its due deadline, the edict expired.[181]

Valerian's first religious edict singled out Christianity as a particularly self-interested and subversive foreign cult, outlawed its assemblies and urged Christians to sacrifice to Rome's traditional gods.] His second edict acknowledged a Christian threat to the Imperial system – not yet at its heart but close to it, among Rome’s equites and Senators. Christian apologists interpreted his disgraceful capture and death as divine judgement. The next forty years were peaceful; the Christian church grew stronger and its literature and theology gained a higher social and intellectual profile, due in part to its own search for political toleration and theological coherence.

In 295, a certain Maximilian refused military service; in 298 Marcellus renounced his military oath. Both were executed for treason; both were Christians.[182] At some time around 302, a report of ominous haruspicy in Diocletian's domus and a subsequent (but undated) dictat of placatory sacrifice by the entire military triggered a series of edicts against Christianity.[187] The first (303 AD) "ordered the destruction of church buildings and Christian texts, forbade services to be held, degraded officials who were Christians, re-enslaved imperial freedmen who were Christians, and reduced the legal rights of all Christians... [Physical] or capital punishments were not imposed on them" but soon after, several Christians suspected of attempted arson in the palace were executed.[188] The second edict threatened Christian priests with imprisonment and the third offered them freedom if they performed sacrifice.[189] An edict of 304 enjoined universal sacrifice to traditional gods, in terms that recall the Decian edict.

In some cases and in some places the edicts were strictly enforced: some Christians resisted and were imprisoned or martyred. Others complied. Some local communities were not only pre-dominantly Christian, but powerful and influential; and some provincial authorities were lenient. Diocletian's successor Galerius maintained anti-Christian policy until his deathbed revocation in 311, when he asked Christians to pray for him. "This meant an official recognition of their importance in the religious world of the Roman empire, although one of the tetrarchs, Maximinus Daia, still oppressed Christians in his part of the empire up to 313."

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africurious
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quote:
Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-:
^^^
Zionism/Zionist is the idea that the Jews have historical and Religious right to the Land of Israel.

Allah in Muhammads Koran is clearly a Zionist.

Your definition of Zionism is woefully simplistic. Zionism is an extreme form of jewish nationalism that started in the late 1800's. It's aim is to bring all jewish adherents to palestine and form a country for and by jews. It's most cherished tenet is that all jews in the world have the same culture and are descended from judeans and therefore they have a right to the land of "ancient israel" as it was their forefather's. Most of the intellectual proponents of Zionism were not religious jews but they saw the old testament as being historically accurate and used it to claim their right to the land through blood descent.

One can believe in the religious doctrine that palestine is the promised land of the jews and still not be Zionist. For most of the last 2 millennia, the jews had not sought to conquer palestine and claim any land as their birth right, nor had they migrated en masse to palestine. These things are recent phenomena driven by the nationalism of ashkenazic jews in central and eastern europe. There is even a sect of Jews who is vehemently opposed to zionism. Muslims who deny the "jewish promised land" details in islam are either ill-informed and/or close-minded buffoons, but islam or allah as presented by islam is definitely not zionist. Matter of fact, jews before the 1800s were not zionist either.

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Ru2religious
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quote:
Originally posted by africurious: It should be obvious to anyone who's studied islamic history that much of the deeds and sayings attributed to mohammed are not his.
If you don't mind me pointing out that it doesn't matter who started the business, it matters who's running it now. There are several people who start businesses and then hand it down to their kids and their kids run it through the mud. Are we supposed to look at the parents who started the business and keep doing business with them even though they are not around or are we supposed to go off of what and how the kids are running the business today?

I have to point this out because it doesn't matter how Muhammad was running his religious ideology and what differences there are today. The point is the religion is no good; period. His successors have run it through the mud. To be honest he had slaves, sexing little girls and so forth - so I don't think it was any better then as well.

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africurious
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^You need to read carefully. I made no statements as to whether mohammed's deeds/sayings or how he "ran" things was "right" or not. No one can say much about his deeds/sayings because most of them are made up and were written down at the earliest 200 yrs after his time. My point was to show that authority figures in islamic lands used these supposed deeds to justify their laws and claim to power. I made no defense of mohammed's deeds/sayings because I can't tell what they are.
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Ru2religious
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Here's the thing, when man found (created) god - man began to die. Man began to suppress in the name of god and then man began to kill in the name of god. Man was introduced to an evil called god/allah/yahwe/etc ... and now the end results is a world that is on the verge of self-destruction.

Man fell out of harmony with nature and now they do that which is unnatural. Instead of being at one with nature (Neteru - possible origins of the word nature) man began to imagine these great beings who have never been seen or physical heard. They began to use this as a tool to enslave humanity. Man said only I can hear this god and thus if you don't want his punishment you must follow me because this god talk directly to me and if you don't he will condemn you to burn forever. FEAR became the power when humanity rejected nature and fear is the most destruct force in our realm of understanding - which is why we are now at the brink of self-destruction.

Religious ideology did not come to save humanity but to destroy humanity - Jesus himself said he has not come to bring peace but a sword aka war (Matthew 10:34).

I find it most intriguing when I hear those who try to justify religious ideologies which is unnatural and reject 'the natural' calling it evil. I'm sure you can tell that I am fully against religion(s) but am a naturalist (animism/ancestral traditionalist) which is to say "one with nature" (etymology dictionary - look up the meaning of the actual word 'nature').

Why do people speak of Muhammad, Jesus, Buddha, Zoroaster, Krishna, Yahweh, etc ... but neglect to speak of self? It would seem as a natural thought that if you are constantly looking outside of yourself for answer you will never see your true answer which is inside of you - hence - the most ancient of teachings "Know ones self/Know thyself". If you don't go within then you will always go without!

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-Just Call Me Jari-
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Zionism is an ideology that the Jews have religious and historical right to Israel.


quote:
Originally posted by anguishofbeing:
quote:
Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-:
^^^
Zionism/Zionist is the idea that the Jews have historical and Religious right to the Land of Israel.

Jackass Zionism has nothing to do with religion. Do you even know who Herzl was?
quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:
It is no coincidence that wherever Muslim communities gain power or stronghold in a non-Muslim region, violence follows. At least Christianity had a reformation and then enlightenment period.

Wasnt this about the same time that the said Christians enslaved Africans and went on to massacre more during colonialism? You are jackass #2.


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Ru2religious
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quote:
Originally posted by africurious:
^You need to read carefully. I made no statements as to whether mohammed's deeds/sayings or how he "ran" things was "right" or not. No one can say much about his deeds/sayings because most of them are made up and were written down at the earliest 200 yrs after his time. My point was to show that authority figures in islamic lands used these supposed deeds to justify their laws and claim to power. I made no defense of mohammed's deeds/sayings because I can't tell what they are.

Don't take what I wrote as a person strike at you - I was reading what you wrote and that point stood out more than any other point. Again - I'm not into the whole religious thing which is why I pinpointed that specific quote. Everything else seems like useless info because people are compelled to believe what they will regardless of whether you are telling the truth or not. I mean it was a good read though - Thumbs up.
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-Just Call Me Jari-
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quote:
Originally posted by africurious:
[qb] You seem to be using a segment of muslims (those anonymous and varied ones on youtube and zealots of various times and places) to describe the entire body of muslims. Sounds similar to how eurocentrics use quacks likes Prof. Jeffries to define "afrocentrists" so they can easily "win" the argument.

Where did I say that the Muslims I debate on youtube represent every single Muslim out of the billions who practice the faith? Also what does this have to do with the subject matter?

quote:
It should be obvious to anyone who's studied islamic history that much of the deeds and sayings attributed to mohammed are not his.
This is such a lame excuse. Many of the Hadiths were stories around that Muslims knew about before they were recorded and many customs Muhammadans follow COME From these very Hadiths. Funny how after a thousand some off of years of Hadiths being pushed suddenly Muslims are questioning their Validity? Really, then stop wearing the Hijab and Nikab, Get out of Jerusalem, Tear down Dome of the Rock, etc. etc. Without the Hadiths Islam would fall apart.

quote:
This was just used as justification by various islamic rulers to gain adherence to certain laws they pushed, to support their claims to leadership, or whatever else was useful to their ends.
This may very well be the case as Robert Spencer's new book, Did Muhammad exist claims. Who knows, just shows how scattered and stupid Islam is as a cult belief system.

quote:
How is this different than in christianity and judaism? Christians made up passages and even whole books in the bible to support their particular doctrine.
Show me where any of these Gospels tell Christians to Follow the Actions of Jesus when he was alive? To follow and venerate what he ate, what he kissed, who he married, what he liked, what he hated etc. Show me the Law in Christianity off of these Gospels.

Also who gives a flying **** about Christianity, WE ARE TALKING ABOUT ISLAM, Got a problem With Christianity make a thread, why everytime Islam is bought up you Muhammadans and/or Muhammadan apologists point fingers at others. Own up to your own depravity stupidity and backwardness.

quote:
Sure, there is no equivalent to the sunnah in christianity but similar made up deeds and sayings used (though to a lesser extent than in islam).
Yeah so then what is your point.

quote:
Judaism too has a whole lot that is made up in terms of what prophet did what and said what. All 3 holy books of the "abrahamic" religions are filled with contradictions and **** that was made up to justify what the particular author (or authority) wanted to foister on the people. All 3 books have many contributing authors over long periods of time (hence the contradictions) but official religious doctrine gives the false impression that these books are 1 pristine ideology.
Yeah but only ONE of them is currently trying to push their Garbage Religious Law in our Secular Democracies. If you wanna follow Sharia, take your ass to an Islamic Country, we don't want or need you in the west.

quote:
You make a good point that officially non-muslims are officially 2nd class citizens in islam but non-jews and non-christians were de facto 2nd class citizens in lands ruled by jews (palestine after the return from captivity, the Hasmonean kingdom, Kazaria, etc.) and christians (all through out europe, and parts of SW asia and N Africa). The degree of "2nd classness" depended upon the vissicitudes of the time, place and leader. So, again, what you describe in islam can be found in the other 2 abrahamic religions.
Show many Any Judaic Law or Christian Law or Text that told people to Fight non-Belevers until they payed a Fucking Tax to survive unharmed in their own lands. Show me where Christians or Jews or anyone for that matter does the **** Muslims do, Killing anyone who would dare build Cathedral, Synagog or PAgan Temple in their lands but building the Largest most Grand Mosques in our lands.

As bad as Christians were and Jews they allowed others way more rights than Muslims ever did or ever will. Islam is the most intolerant of all the 3 religions.

quote:
Also like the christianity and judaism, islam has had to struggle with stifling religious doctrine/authority. Following islam doesn't preclude countries/people from progress (as you seem to suggest).
Really??

Egypt-3,000 Plus yrs of Progress, scientific, Architectural, and Philosophical thought. Every Ancient Source speaks of the Wisdom of Egypt etc. Even during the Coptic/Roman Occupation Egypt is the center of learning.

Egypt Under Islam-Modern Egypt. Poverty Stricken, Rual, Backward and steeped in the stupidity of Sharia, MAdrassa Ranting and Chanting, and the Ranting and Chanting of Alazhar AKA Fatwa University.

Persia-The Light of the Middle East. Architectural, Mathmatical, etc. Leader, Persia's Sophistication too vast to name.

Modern Persia-Iran-case closed.

Yet, Rome(Italy) China, (U.K)Britania, Greece, etc. are still leaders in the world.

I mean look at Turkey, they become Secular and Wa-laa..

quote:
It is simply the matter that europe has won the battle against the religious straight-jacket while most islamic societies have not.
Because Europe never fell victim to a bunch of Rag-headed, illiterate Hordes chanting about their dirt-bad Pedo Pirating Prophet and their Crime Syndacate the Caliphate. Christianity as stupid a religion it is allowed Europe to become Secular and seperate Church from State.

quote:
Also, have you thought about the fact that the copts in egypt also didn't care about digging up kemetic temples as you say the muslims didn't? Islam alone is not to blame for egyptian lack of interest in kemet and in fact the lack of interest probably started long before the majority of egypt started to follow Islam.
The Copts Knew who they were, The Copts Spoke Egyptian and claimed to be Egyptian. They did'nt speak a foreign tounge, they did'nt pray to a Rock in Arabia etc.
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-Just Call Me Jari-
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Of course my def. of Zionism is "simplistic" as you say, considering Zionism as a political movement is a modern one, but thats the point the very CORE of Zionism is as you say "Jewish Nationalism" or more important that the Jews as a Chosen people over others, and the Historical Right of Israel to the Jews in Modern Times.

The Koran fits BOTH criteria as Allah says Israel is the Jews even in the "Last Days" and they are chosen over the Alamin.

Maybe you have another name for Allah's beliefs and can tell me it, but Zionist seems to fit IMO.


quote:
Originally posted by africurious:
quote:
Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-:
^^^
Zionism/Zionist is the idea that the Jews have historical and Religious right to the Land of Israel.

Allah in Muhammads Koran is clearly a Zionist.

Your definition of Zionism is woefully simplistic. Zionism is an extreme form of jewish nationalism that started in the late 1800's. It's aim is to bring all jewish adherents to palestine and form a country for and by jews. It's most cherished tenet is that all jews in the world have the same culture and are descended from judeans and therefore they have a right to the land of "ancient israel" as it was their forefather's. Most of the intellectual proponents of Zionism were not religious jews but they saw the old testament as being historically accurate and used it to claim their right to the land through blood descent.

One can believe in the religious doctrine that palestine is the promised land of the jews and still not be Zionist. For most of the last 2 millennia, the jews had not sought to conquer palestine and claim any land as their birth right, nor had they migrated en masse to palestine. These things are recent phenomena driven by the nationalism of ashkenazic jews in central and eastern europe. There is even a sect of Jews who is vehemently opposed to zionism. Muslims who deny the "jewish promised land" details in islam are either ill-informed and/or close-minded buffoons, but islam or allah as presented by islam is definitely not zionist. Matter of fact, jews before the 1800s were not zionist either.


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anguishofbeing
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Hertl didn't even believe in god. you don't know shyt.
quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:
^ Such acts were not committed because of Christianity but because of European greed and supremacy. Sure some proponents used Christianity as an excuse but it really wasn't. Look what Italy did to Ethiopia even though it was a Christian nation. Look at how blacks in the Americas were treated even though they were fellow Christians.

Typical BS. When Muslims do shyt it's Islam, but when Christians do the same its not a reflection of Christianity. Bitch your pretense to objectivity just got exposed. lol
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anguishofbeing
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quote:
Originally posted by Swenet:
quote:
Originally posted by anguishofbeing:
quote:
Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-:
^^^
Zionism/Zionist is the idea that the Jews have historical and Religious right to the Land of Israel.

Jackass Zionism has nothing to do with religion. Do you even know who Herzl was?
quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:
It is no coincidence that wherever Muslim communities gain power or stronghold in a non-Muslim region, violence follows. At least Christianity had a reformation and then enlightenment period.

Wasnt this about the same time that the said Christians enslaved Africans and went on to massacre more during colonialism? You are jackass #2.

LMAO. Angelina loves to talk about Jews. If you're looking for Angelina, just create a thread about Jews and sure nuff, she will rear her ugly head.
Got tired of reading nonspecialists like you pretending to be geneticists. Wannabe. lol
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africurious
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quote:
Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-:
quote:
Originally posted by africurious:
[qb] You seem to be using a segment of muslims (those anonymous and varied ones on youtube and zealots of various times and places) to describe the entire body of muslims. Sounds similar to how eurocentrics use quacks likes Prof. Jeffries to define "afrocentrists" so they can easily "win" the argument.

Where did I say that the Muslims I debate on youtube represent every single Muslim out of the billions who practice the faith? Also what does this have to do with the subject matter?

quote:
It should be obvious to anyone who's studied islamic history that much of the deeds and sayings attributed to mohammed are not his.
This is such a lame excuse. Many of the Hadiths were stories around that Muslims knew about before they were recorded and many customs Muhammadans follow COME From these very Hadiths. Funny how after a thousand some off of years of Hadiths being pushed suddenly Muslims are questioning their Validity? Really, then stop wearing the Hijab and Nikab, Get out of Jerusalem, Tear down Dome of the Rock, etc. etc. Without the Hadiths Islam would fall apart.

quote:
This was just used as justification by various islamic rulers to gain adherence to certain laws they pushed, to support their claims to leadership, or whatever else was useful to their ends.
This may very well be the case as Robert Spencer's new book, Did Muhammad exist claims. Who knows, just shows how scattered and stupid Islam is as a cult belief system.

quote:
How is this different than in christianity and judaism? Christians made up passages and even whole books in the bible to support their particular doctrine.
Show me where any of these Gospels tell Christians to Follow the Actions of Jesus when he was alive? To follow and venerate what he ate, what he kissed, who he married, what he liked, what he hated etc. Show me the Law in Christianity off of these Gospels.

Also who gives a flying **** about Christianity, WE ARE TALKING ABOUT ISLAM, Got a problem With Christianity make a thread, why everytime Islam is bought up you Muhammadans and/or Muhammadan apologists point fingers at others. Own up to your own depravity stupidity and backwardness.

quote:
Sure, there is no equivalent to the sunnah in christianity but similar made up deeds and sayings used (though to a lesser extent than in islam).
Yeah so then what is your point.

quote:
Judaism too has a whole lot that is made up in terms of what prophet did what and said what. All 3 holy books of the "abrahamic" religions are filled with contradictions and **** that was made up to justify what the particular author (or authority) wanted to foister on the people. All 3 books have many contributing authors over long periods of time (hence the contradictions) but official religious doctrine gives the false impression that these books are 1 pristine ideology.
Yeah but only ONE of them is currently trying to push their Garbage Religious Law in our Secular Democracies. If you wanna follow Sharia, take your ass to an Islamic Country, we don't want or need you in the west.

quote:
You make a good point that officially non-muslims are officially 2nd class citizens in islam but non-jews and non-christians were de facto 2nd class citizens in lands ruled by jews (palestine after the return from captivity, the Hasmonean kingdom, Kazaria, etc.) and christians (all through out europe, and parts of SW asia and N Africa). The degree of "2nd classness" depended upon the vissicitudes of the time, place and leader. So, again, what you describe in islam can be found in the other 2 abrahamic religions.
Show many Any Judaic Law or Christian Law or Text that told people to Fight non-Belevers until they payed a Fucking Tax to survive unharmed in their own lands. Show me where Christians or Jews or anyone for that matter does the **** Muslims do, Killing anyone who would dare build Cathedral, Synagog or PAgan Temple in their lands but building the Largest most Grand Mosques in our lands.

As bad as Christians were and Jews they allowed others way more rights than Muslims ever did or ever will. Islam is the most intolerant of all the 3 religions.

quote:
Also like the christianity and judaism, islam has had to struggle with stifling religious doctrine/authority. Following islam doesn't preclude countries/people from progress (as you seem to suggest).
Really??

Egypt-3,000 Plus yrs of Progress, scientific, Architectural, and Philosophical thought. Every Ancient Source speaks of the Wisdom of Egypt etc. Even during the Coptic/Roman Occupation Egypt is the center of learning.

Egypt Under Islam-Modern Egypt. Poverty Stricken, Rual, Backward and steeped in the stupidity of Sharia, MAdrassa Ranting and Chanting, and the Ranting and Chanting of Alazhar AKA Fatwa University.

Persia-The Light of the Middle East. Architectural, Mathmatical, etc. Leader, Persia's Sophistication too vast to name.

Modern Persia-Iran-case closed.

Yet, Rome(Italy) China, (U.K)Britania, Greece, etc. are still leaders in the world.

I mean look at Turkey, they become Secular and Wa-laa..

quote:
It is simply the matter that europe has won the battle against the religious straight-jacket while most islamic societies have not.
Because Europe never fell victim to a bunch of Rag-headed, illiterate Hordes chanting about their dirt-bad Pedo Pirating Prophet and their Crime Syndacate the Caliphate. Christianity as stupid a religion it is allowed Europe to become Secular and seperate Church from State.

quote:
Also, have you thought about the fact that the copts in egypt also didn't care about digging up kemetic temples as you say the muslims didn't? Islam alone is not to blame for egyptian lack of interest in kemet and in fact the lack of interest probably started long before the majority of egypt started to follow Islam.
The Copts Knew who they were, The Copts Spoke Egyptian and claimed to be Egyptian. They did'nt speak a foreign tounge, they did'nt pray to a Rock in Arabia etc.

^Relax now, don't pop a vessel. I'm glad you went on that rabid rant though. It just confirms your prejudice and unclear thinking. And I'm not muslim so I don't know why your response is written as if I am. And your response shows that you are lumping all muslims together when you talk about muslims building mosques in the west but persecuting ppl in muslim countries as if it were all the same muslims doing both. And then you mention that right-wing paranoia about having sharia law in the west.

The copts language was heavily greacianized though based on AE. And they still consider greeks their kin which is why the greek flag was flying at the church in coptic cairo when i went there. And the jewish egyptians who converted to judaism didn't care too much about digging up the ancient glories of kmt either. They're busy in israel now claiming to be descendants of judaeans and view euro ashkenazi as their kin instead of other egyptians. What can i say? People, their loyalties and sense of origin change with time but it's easier for you to just say it's all islam's fault.
And it's laughable that you say Rome (italy) and greece are still leaders in the world cuz not many ppl share that belief. Italy and greece have been looked down upon in europe since the 18th or 19th century so i dont know what you're talking about. And china isn't leading anything either (they're still on the come up, but good try though). And what about india? Why haven't they become "leaders" yet despite no islamic rule for generations? And why is malaysia doing well despite being overwhelmingly muslim, especially in the government?

I was trying to have a civil convo with you but obviously you prefer polemics instead of reasoned debate. So keep on debasing ES with the clowns and trolls that frequent here.

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Amun-Ra The Ultimate
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the lioness,

Ancestral religions = Traditional religions. The religion passed from fathers to sons, from mothers to daughters since the beginning of time. There's surprisingly (or not) a lot of similarities between ancestral religions of Japanese people (Shinto), Native Americans, Ancient Egyptians and traditional African religions. My goal is not to convert anybody just spread academic knowledge about them. None of those religions are proselytizing anyway since they are passed from parents to children, from the communities to its young members.

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anguishofbeing
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Too late Jari already blew the vessel, you got him on your ass now! lol
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-Just Call Me Jari-
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quote:
Originally posted by africurious:
^Relax now, don't pop a vessel. I'm glad you went on that rabid rant though. It just confirms your prejudice and unclear thinking.

My Thinking is clear, point out something Im missing.

quote:
And I'm not muslim so I don't know why your response is written as if I am.
show me where I said you were a Muslim?

quote:
And your response shows that you are lumping all muslims together when you talk about muslims building mosques in the west but persecuting ppl in muslim countries as if it were all the same muslims doing both.
OK. Ill make it easy, show me more than 100 Muslims in any Democracy, these Peaceful Muslims, that supports building a Pagan Animist, Hindu Christian, and Jewish Temple in Mecca.

Ill wait.

quote:
And then you mention that right-wing paranoia about having sharia law in the west.
So are you saying Muslims are not pushing or advocating Sharia Law in the West?

quote:
The copts language was heavily greacianized though based on AE. And they still consider greeks their kin which is why the greek flag was flying at the church in coptic cairo when i went there.
Really? How does this even Compare at ALL with what the Arabs did? The Greeks MIXED with the Egyptians, they did'nt force them to become Greek Speaking, Greek Minded people. They did'nt call their forefathers "Kuffar" and Dismantle their Temples etc such as the Spinx and the White Limestone of the Pyramids.

and you WONDER WHY the Hell Im upset? Really. Why are you pointing fingers at others.??

quote:
And the jewish egyptians who converted to judaism didn't care too much about digging up the ancient glories of kmt either. They're busy in israel now claiming to be descendants of judaeans and view euro ashkenazi as their kin instead of other egyptians.
Again what does this have to do with Islam? Please tell me because this is becoming pointless.

quote:
What can i say? People, their loyalties and sense of origin change with time but it's easier for you to just say it's all islam's fault.
Disprove me. Show me where Egyptians began refering to themselves as a Foreign entity(Arab) prior to Islam and the Hordes of Arabia came. It should be easy for you.

quote:
And it's laughable that you say Rome (italy) and greece are still leaders in the world cuz not many ppl share that belief. Italy and greece have been looked down upon in europe since the 18th or 19th century so i dont know what you're talking about.
LOL, Do you even KNOW What the Renaissance was and where it took place? Are You kidding me..?? Europe would be **** without Italy and Italians. It was Issac Newton and the discovery of the Steam Engine that Shifted the power and Intellicial sway away from Southern Europe to the North West. No serious person would say Italy was not VITAL in the Reemergence of Europe and the Secularization of Europe.

Greece's power/Intelligencia was shifted to Byzantium which was overcame by Muhammadan Turks and even Greece had to struggle against the Turks. Yet Greece is no where near the Ass Backward Stupidity found in Muslim Lands. The only Islamic Countries that came close to being modern was/is Secular Lybia and Turkey. Lybia under Secularization had Modern Healthcare reform, Education, Sanitation etc. and was the most Rich State in Africa/Arab World next to South Africa(In the Case of Africa) and the Oil Rich Saudi Arabia. Turkey the same. I mean really how can you sit up with a straight face and pretend the Ranting stupidity of the Mullahs and Iyyotolah(SP) have not Keep Islamic States in the Dark of Ignorance.

As a Matter of Fact Read about what Attaturk Said/Felt about Muhammad and Islam and Come back to me.


quote:
And china isn't leading anything either (they're still on the come up, but good try though).
LOL, a General History of China Proves you wrong. China has always been a leader in the East. Except for when China fucked up when she Islotated herself.

quote:
And what about india? Why haven't they become "leaders" yet despite no islamic rule for generations?
Really when has India NOT been surrounded by Muslims. BTW Modern India's Middle Class is booming and is coming up. India and China are the two projected next world powers.


quote:
And why is malaysia doing well despite being overwhelmingly muslim, especially in the government?
Really? You Down Play INDIA AND CHINA and put Maylasia of all places up on a pedalstool.

What did the Arabs/Islam bring to Malaysia..?? Who Brought the Modern Infrastucture, Modern Sanitation, Modern Bis. and Trade Policies and Economics? The Arabs/Muslims or the British? BTW Malaysia is no where NEAR being the Leader in anything, esp. when compared to India and China. Its just Industrialized. Also Malyasia is not an Islamic State. I said it before and Ill say it again, the only way for Islamic States to get out of the gutter of the 7th century is to follow Turkey or Lybia's example and embrace Secularism. If they want to have their stupid Sharia Courts then seperate that sh@t from the Federal Judiciary. Malaysia your Prime Example of an Islamic State has done this.

quote:
I was trying to have a civil convo with you but obviously you prefer polemics instead of reasoned debate. So keep on debasing ES with the clowns and trolls that frequent here. [/qb]
If you want to have a conversation stop pointing fingers at boogy men. I can care less about Xtianity or Jews. If you want to talk about the depravity of those cults make a tread on it, if you want to talk about Islam, TALK ABOUT ISLAM.
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KING
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Credit Jari for putting an smackdown on what is an REligion of hate and lust.

Let me say that Islam is an evil faith with women and children taking the brunt of that false prophet mhammad.

Hear is an Ayatollah Kohpmeni and book of disigusting perversions Read and Under stand:


The Ayatollah Khomeini’s Book: Sex with Children and Animals


A man can have sexual pleasure from a child as young as a baby. However, he should not penetrate vaginally, but sodomising the child is acceptable. If a man does penetrate and damage the child then, he should be responsible for her subsistence all her life. This girl will not count as one of his four permanent wives and the man will not be eligible to marry the girl’s sister… It is better for a girl to marry at such a time when she would begin menstruation at her husband’s house, rather than her father’s home. Any father marrying his daughter so young will have a permanent place in heaven. ["Tahrirolvasyleh", fourth edition, Qom, Iran, 1990]


A man can have sex with animals such as sheep, cows, camels and so on. However, he should kill the animal after he has his orgasm. He should not sell the meat to the people in his own village, but selling the meat to a neighbouring village is reasonable.


It is not illegal for an adult male to ‘thigh’ or enjoy a young girl who is still in the age of weaning; meaning to place his penis between her thighs, and to kiss her. ["The Little Green Book"]


Paedophilia legal in Iran

In June, 2002 Iranian authorities approved a law raising the age at which girls can marry without parental consent from 9 to 13. The elected legislature actually passed the bill in 2000, but the “Guardian Council”, a 12-man body of conservative clerics, vetoed it as contradicting Islamic Sharia law. Iran’s clerical establishment insists that the marriage of young girls is a means to combat immorality. The Expediency Council, which arbitrates between the elected parliament and the theocratic Guardian Council, timidly passed the measure. The law however does not change the age at which children can get married (nine for girls and 14 for boys), but says that girls below the age of 13 and boys younger than 15 need their parents’ permission and the approval of a “Righteous Court.” Reformists state that the new law does not protect children, since most of those who marry at such a young age do so by force.

That's just the beginning. Islam claims that Majority of women are in hell for not having sex with Husbands. How can any sane person defend such filth?


http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=98d_1268716355

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-Just Call Me Jari-
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Afro-Curious, no Hard Feelings, I just get frustrated that when Islam is discussed people bring up Judaism and Xtianity.

My problem is Islam but if you want to discuss anything in this thread, Ill tone it down out of respect for you as an African bro.

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anguishofbeing
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You have already proven to him that you are quite insane. I'd be surprised if he came back and dignified your lunatic rant with a response.


You know you're doing something wrong when a religious nut like King starts giving you props. lol

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-Just Call Me Jari-
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Islam and Muhammad's deprave hatred of women is worse than that..

quote:
... I have not seen anyone with a greater deficiency in intelligence and religion than you. A prudent and reasonable man can be led astray b y some of you." The women asked , "O Allah's Apostle! What is the defect in our intelligence and our religion?" He told them, "Is the testimony of two women not equal to that of one man?" They affirmed this. He said, "This is the defect in her intelligence. Is it not true that a woman is not allowed to pray or fast during her menstruation?" The women affirmed this. He said, "This is the defect in her religion."
-Hadith 1.6.301 of Bukhari

quote:
“Before my time facts were mentioned that cancel prayers. They said, "Prayers are cancelled by a dog, a donkey, and a woman (when they are passing in front of people engaged in prayers)." I said, "You have turned us (the women) into dogs. I saw the Prophet in prayer while I was lying in bed between him and the Qibla (direction of Mecca). When I needed something I slipped away since I did not want to pass in front of his face."
Hadith 1.9.490 of Bukhari


quote:
Originally posted by KING:
Credit Jari for putting an smackdown on what is an REligion of hate and lust.

Let me say that Islam is an evil faith with women and children taking the brunt of that false prophet mhammad.

Hear is an Ayatollah Kohpmeni and book of disigusting perversions Read and Under stand:


The Ayatollah Khomeini’s Book: Sex with Children and Animals


A man can have sexual pleasure from a child as young as a baby. However, he should not penetrate vaginally, but sodomising the child is acceptable. If a man does penetrate and damage the child then, he should be responsible for her subsistence all her life. This girl will not count as one of his four permanent wives and the man will not be eligible to marry the girl’s sister… It is better for a girl to marry at such a time when she would begin menstruation at her husband’s house, rather than her father’s home. Any father marrying his daughter so young will have a permanent place in heaven. ["Tahrirolvasyleh", fourth edition, Qom, Iran, 1990]


A man can have sex with animals such as sheep, cows, camels and so on. However, he should kill the animal after he has his orgasm. He should not sell the meat to the people in his own village, but selling the meat to a neighbouring village is reasonable.


It is not illegal for an adult male to ‘thigh’ or enjoy a young girl who is still in the age of weaning; meaning to place his penis between her thighs, and to kiss her. ["The Little Green Book"]


Paedophilia legal in Iran

In June, 2002 Iranian authorities approved a law raising the age at which girls can marry without parental consent from 9 to 13. The elected legislature actually passed the bill in 2000, but the “Guardian Council”, a 12-man body of conservative clerics, vetoed it as contradicting Islamic Sharia law. Iran’s clerical establishment insists that the marriage of young girls is a means to combat immorality. The Expediency Council, which arbitrates between the elected parliament and the theocratic Guardian Council, timidly passed the measure. The law however does not change the age at which children can get married (nine for girls and 14 for boys), but says that girls below the age of 13 and boys younger than 15 need their parents’ permission and the approval of a “Righteous Court.” Reformists state that the new law does not protect children, since most of those who marry at such a young age do so by force.

That's just the beginning. Islam claims that Majority of women are in hell for not having sex with Husbands. How can any sane person defend such filth?


http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=98d_1268716355


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-Just Call Me Jari-
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Really? What do you do besides run around the forum bitching about the Jew. What do you talk about here besides the Jew??

I bet if Afrocurious told you he believed in the Holocaust you'd not be on his dick like you are..lol You're a joke man.

quote:
Originally posted by anguishofbeing:
You have already proven to him that you are quite insane.


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anguishofbeing
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quote:
Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-:
I bet if Afrocurious told you he believed in the Holocaust you'd not be on his dick like you are..

He probably does believe the holocaust happened. Just as it's a high probability that you are quite mad as evidenced by your recent anti-Islam ranting. What happened Jari?
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-Just Call Me Jari-
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Bitch what happened to you?? Why don't you ever discuss anything that is not about the damn Jew in your 5-10yrs on E.S. Jew this and Jew that.

Recent? Everyone should be familiar with my opinions on Islam. How is it recent?? My recent disgust probably stems from the Sharia bastard Islamists who raped and beat Malian women, btw Sufi Muslims, and Cut off the Hands of Milians while Muslims in London came out in Support of Sharia in Mali.

But you niggas worried about the Damn Jew and the neutered powerless Xtian, all up defending Muslims n ****.

http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=007928;p=1#000000

Like I said you're one to talk about being insane. Your Jew obsession is pathetic.

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anguishofbeing
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I think you will do well under sharia.

Actually Lamin's take in that link made a lot of sense. You are a high school drop out remember?

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-Just Call Me Jari-
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Im a Drop-out? Really..lol My Diploma proves other wise.

Also Lamin did'nt comment on that thread.

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anguishofbeing
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Seriously Jari, what is your educational resume like?
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-Just Call Me Jari-
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???
What Matter does it make? Im 2 yrs(or 16 Classes) away from getting my Bach. in History, I changed my major from Arch. to History.

How does that equal me dropping out of Highschool?

(TBH, College is a waste of time, the Debt. you aquire is not worth it in the long run..IMO.)

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KING
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anguishofbeing

Bahahah spare me the Jokes Anguish. Nut?? Really
The man who is inlove with Jews and can't make an post withoust somehow linking it to JEWWWS callin someone an Nut.

What I stated is FACTS and TRUTHS found in Islamic books. If it's wrong please refute. If its right, why the Hate?

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anguishofbeing
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quote:
Im 2 yrs(or 16 Classes) away from getting my Bach. in History,
What are you going to do with it?
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-Just Call Me Jari-
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What is this 21 questions..lol

I plan to
1)Start a Research group called "Nile Valley Studies" for a serious approach to Africana Studies.

2)Teach at a University Level eventually.

3)Write a Historical Fiction book dealing with Egypt/Nubia.

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anguishofbeing
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Well you just seem very conflicted and irrational. I want to better understand you. For example, you said college is a waste of time yet you plan to further your studies.
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