posted
On the one hand that is nice, but on the other it is a little scarey that the ability to do that exists on the planet. In my old demo'ing days back in the 70s and 80s, the police used to hang off bridges and tall buildings with video cameras to catch all the faces.
Posts: 5593 | From: Egypt | Registered: Dec 2005
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Awesome! What did Gobarchev say “I knew it was time to give in when I found out they (US) could read a license plate from outer space”
Posts: 2275 | Registered: Dec 2009
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posted
“But [the protesters] have no structure. They are still going to end up with the same unemployment, the same problems with food, the same problems with corruption. “Whether [Egypt is ruled] by this guy or that guy, it doesn’t matter. It will just be a matter of time before the hand goes under the table and you have to give money. That is just the culture.”
I've said that weeks ago. It really doesn't matter who will be on top of Egypt's government, nothing will change. At least not for another two generations - if ever.
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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“But [the protesters] have no structure. They are still going to end up with the same unemployment, the same problems with food, the same problems with corruption. “Whether [Egypt is ruled] by this guy or that guy, it doesn’t matter. It will just be a matter of time before the hand goes under the table and you have to give money. That is just the culture.”
… says a Jewish gentleman who emigrated to Canada from Egypt in 1957. And the other statements in that article are from a man who emigrated in 1960.
The article raises a few valid points, but the fact that it's been published in "The Canadian Jewish News" and both people being quoted spent most of their lifes outside of Egypt doesn't really make it look like the best source of reliable opinions and information.
Posts: 3587 | Registered: Mar 2006
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“But [the protesters] have no structure. They are still going to end up with the same unemployment, the same problems with food, the same problems with corruption. “Whether [Egypt is ruled] by this guy or that guy, it doesn’t matter. It will just be a matter of time before the hand goes under the table and you have to give money. That is just the culture.”
… says a Jewish gentleman who emigrated to Canada from Egypt in 1957. And the other statements in that article are from a man who emigrated in 1960.
The article raises a few valid points, but the fact that it's been published in "The Canadian Jewish News" and both people being quoted spent most of their lifes outside of Egypt doesn't really make it look like the best source of reliable opinions and information.
Get over the source, Dalia. I guess the longer you live among Egyptians the more anti-Semitic you are becoming in your thinking.
If you lived long enough in Egypt you know what these JEWISH gentlemen are talking about and yes I agree this article made a lot of sense.
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: I guess the longer you live among Egyptians the more anti-Semitic you are becoming in your thinking.
Nonsense. I pointed out that your source might not be the best for objective information and why. I'd do the same if someone presented quotes from the Muslim Brotherhood website as objective information on anything related to Israel.
Posts: 3587 | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
Just for info as Bikya Masr didn't post any with it, that video relates to the events over the weekend re the state security papers:
اردنا دخول مقر امن الدولة بلاظوغلي لضمان تسليم الملفات للنيابة كما حدث البارحة بمقر مدينة نصر و لكن الجيش منعنا ثم هاجمنا . في الصباح راينا سيارة جيش تخرج من المقر بملفات و اخرين رأوا من منازلهم ظباط يخرجون من نفس المقر في نفس التوقيت و الجيش يحميهم.
Google Translate: We wanted to enter the headquarters of state security Blazawgli to ensure delivery of files to the prosecution, as happened yesterday at the Nasr City, but we attacked the army to stop us then. In the morning we saw a car out of the Army Headquarters and other files from their homes Officers saw out of the same venue at the same time and the army protects them.
Posts: 5593 | From: Egypt | Registered: Dec 2005
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Zahi Hawass and the Museum Gift Shop EgyptianMuseum240 Zahi Hawass and the Museum Gift Shop The Egyptian Museum in Cairo The new Museum gift shop that was looted during the recent revolution in Egypt has been a subject of ongoing controversy. In official reports from the International Council of Museums (ICOM) and the Egypt Cultural Heritage Organisation (ECHO) it was stated by the former director of the museum of Egyptian Antiquities (2004-2010) Mrs Wafaa el-Saddik, that the looting of the new gift shop was an inside job, carried out by the museum’s own security and Egyptian Police dressed in plain clothes.
Posts: 5593 | From: Egypt | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
'Six shot dead' in Egyptian religious clashes
(AFP) – 57 minutes ago
CAIRO — At least six Coptic Christians were shot dead and 45 wounded by gunfire in religious clashes with Muslims in the Egyptian capital, a Coptic priest told AFP on Wednesday, updating an earlier toll.
"We have at the clinic the bodies of six Copts, all of them shot," local priest Samann Ibrahim told AFP, referring to a medical centre attached to his church.
oh now that is handy, such a shock that financial documents might be going up in smoke. NOT.
Now if that is not an 'inside job' I don't know what the hell is.
Wasn't there a report yesterday somewhere of a car torched outside the Magomma while a person standing and looking at the Magomma saw nothing of the like?
Nice way to get rid of a few financial documents that could be needed in some peoples trials though Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
Problem that we might have at the moment is little fires breaking out due to electrical faults that would normally have been caught and dealt with quickly in more steady times. (We all know how great Egyptian electrical wiring is - in my flat if I twist the light bulb in the office one way all the lights in the hall come on or go off, twist it the other way and the rest of the lights in the office go on or off).
There may or may not be anything suspicious going on.
Remember the Hyper1 fire - the manager saw 'a foreigner running away' well it was an electrical fault. If anyone was seen running away, I would have put the manager of the new Spinneys in the frame. Hyper1 was reported as being razed to the ground. Erm... it wasn't.
Egyptians are apparently keeping their kids away from school because 'they might get kidnapped and have their body parts taken'. Erm... hello - they're small kids and most body parts need to be adult sized.
Posts: 5593 | From: Egypt | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
If Egyptians are not careful more than only government buildings gonna end up in smoke.
Honestly I don't see any unity of the Egyptians - rather the opposite. Too many people having too many different opinions and agendas. Everybody wants to suddenly protest now for something.
Someone needs to speak up and stop all this chaos.
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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not 100% sure but I think this article says after stepping down HM switched to the Thuraya UAE network for his telecoms because they can't be monitored? It's a very expensive network due to the security features and who is going to be responsible for paying his phone bill?
Posts: 5593 | From: Egypt | Registered: Dec 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Shanta Gdeeda: What would YOU do right now if you were here and if you had some say - given that you can't turn the clock back and put HM back in power?
How would you recommend communities deal with the apparent invisibility of the police?
Who wants the police??? Egyptians don't want the police - they hate and disrespect them.
IMHO a fresh start has to be made after the revolution. Both sides need to learn to trust and to show respect to each other. It will take time, many years.
In the meantime the current PM needs to speak up and urge his citizens to calm it down and get ready to organize elections etc. After Egypt has a new government - voted for by their citizens in not rigged elections - then negociations can be held in regards to changing laws, higher wages etc etc. the list is too long.
The foundation has to be established at first, incl. changes in constitution. Safety and stability has to return to the country to do that and then everything else can follow. All these different protests and demands at the moment are just counter-productive to the revolution.
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
OK at the moment we have got a certain element of fear in the country, some based on genuine incidents and some based on overhyped media and scare stories. We have got untrained vigilantes and militia getting trigger-happy with passing pigeons and one day soon there's going to be a tragic accident. So they do want a police force that does 'normal' policeman stuff albeit a new force and call them something else and give them new clothes or whatever.
How would you manage this in the time it takes to get elections organized? If you were Egyptian and lived in a local residential area, what would you consider to be the best response in order to avoid the situation such as in Sharm at the moment where you have the local bedouin - and it may be a few chancing their arm, or it may be more organized than that - I don't know - going in to hotels and companies demanding substantial 'protection' money and also to avoid giving arms to people in the grip of their emotions.
Posts: 5593 | From: Egypt | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
Actually you will find that the majority do want the police and security stability. What your seeing is pockets of pent up anger and emotion. Citizens are protecting each other and looking out for one another, the police are around, just in smaller numbers and I admire the ones who came back to work.It must have been hard to do with everyone hating you. Having lived here many years knowing many egyptians, you will find that they have never really respected or trusted each other, even before the revolution. The revolution has made some changes in that respect and people now know their neighbours. It will come in time, you have to promote a postive message otherwise there is no hope. The goverment need time to make a few inroads and should make a couple of changes in the next few weeks, so that people can see things starting to happen. As for the police, well I have already suggested that the 1st thing they do is change the color of the uniform from black & white, its tarnished now and this will help gain some respect back. Yes things are happening which aren't right, 80 million people live here, and even if 1 million decide to do different protests etc... it will seem a lot to the outside world, but infact its a small drop in the ocean here. Inshallah change will come and to do that let people rant, have there say whatever, a few weeks down the road normality (says hopefully) will return and for the better.
-------------------- MRS HASSAN Posts: 129 | From: In the land of plenty | Registered: Mar 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Mrs Hassan: Actually you will find that the majority do want the police and security stability. What your seeing is pockets of pent up anger and emotion. Citizens are protecting each other and looking out for one another, the police are around, just in smaller numbers and I admire the ones who came back to work.It must have been hard to do with everyone hating you. Having lived here many years knowing many egyptians, you will find that they have never really respected or trusted each other, even before the revolution. The revolution has made some changes in that respect and people now know their neighbours. It will come in time, you have to promote a postive message otherwise there is no hope. The goverment need time to make a few inroads and should make a couple of changes in the next few weeks, so that people can see things starting to happen. As for the police, well I have already suggested that the 1st thing they do is change the color of the uniform from black & white, its tarnished now and this will help gain some respect back. Yes things are happening which aren't right, 80 million people live here, and even if 1 million decide to do different protests etc... it will seem a lot to the outside world, but infact its a small drop in the ocean here. Inshallah change will come and to do that let people rant, have there say whatever, a few weeks down the road normality (says hopefully) will return and for the better.
I have to agree, It's not that ppl "hated" the police per se, but rather the tactics they employed. That is changing. Accountability is being worked on.It's rather naive to believe any society can work with out law enforcement. That's where chaos comes in.
Posts: 3291 | From: I DO believe in Karma! | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
I'm not so sure the links about religious clashes belong in the post departure thread? Maybe they should be put in the section below, or the religious section.
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Gdeeda: [qb] What would YOU do right now if you were here and if you had some say - given that you can't turn the clock back and put HM back in power?
How would you recommend communities deal with the apparent invisibility of the police?
Who wants the police??? Egyptians don't want the police - they hate and disrespect them.
of course they want the police! They want the police to do their job, which is to protect the people. They hated and disrespected a police that tortured and stole from them, who wouldn't? They want the police to do the job that police do, not the job they were doing.
quote:IMHO a fresh start has to be made after the revolution. Both sides need to learn to trust and to show respect to each other. It will take time, many years.
That includes the police doing the job police should be doing. It takes no time at all. At the moment they are here, but unsure what they should be doing as too many years of backsheesh and 'I am IT' attitude.
quote:In the meantime the current PM needs to speak up and urge his citizens to calm it down and get ready to organize elections etc. After Egypt has a new government - voted for by their citizens in not rigged elections - then negociations can be held in regards to changing laws, higher wages etc etc. the list is too long.
yes the list is long and they are working through it NOW, not later, no one is going to sit back and get another lot the same in BEFORE things change.
quote:The foundation has to be established at first, incl. changes in constitution. Safety and stability has to return to the country to do that and then everything else can follow. All these different protests and demands at the moment are just counter-productive to the revolution.
Yes, everything else including elections will follow, sort the other things FIRST before they give some God knows who 4 years to create the same again. It is being set in place so that will NOT happen again.
Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
When I was in Alex yesterday, the police seemed to back, at least doing traffic duties. Pity really, traffic has been moving much more freely in the past few weeks sans police. They must be keeping a low profile though, certainly I noticed that whenever officers were around lots of people seemed to be scrutinising them. Uncomfortable for them I think. I guess like others here, I got email from my Consulate with a warning about increased crime risk. Friend-of-a-friend had his car and money hijacked at gunpoint on the outskirts of Alex last week. Oportunistic crimes are probably going to be around for a while I think, simply because the police will maybe not want get into risky situations these days, even if they are back at work. Hope it doesn't escalate to kidnappings or real violence.
Posts: 1399 | From: alexandria | Registered: Jan 2002
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posted
They were in Haram Street yesterday (have been since the revolution) but with military police in close attendance. I did also see some in Tahrir doing normal policeman stuff (I saw some giving directions to people - not tourists, Egyptians). Also, though, a lot of the traffic cop duties round Tahrir were being done by civilians.
Like Mrs H, I agree that those who have returned to work in what must be frankly scarey to them circumstances do deserve admiration for their courage.
(OK, that's my last pontifaction for the next week - see Mods thread!)
Posts: 5593 | From: Egypt | Registered: Dec 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Shanta Gdeeda: OK at the moment we have got a certain element of fear in the country, some based on genuine incidents and some based on overhyped media and scare stories. We have got untrained vigilantes and militia getting trigger-happy with passing pigeons and one day soon there's going to be a tragic accident. So they do want a police force that does 'normal' policeman stuff albeit a new force and call them something else and give them new clothes or whatever.
How would you manage this in the time it takes to get elections organized? If you were Egyptian and lived in a local residential area, what would you consider to be the best response in order to avoid the situation such as in Sharm at the moment where you have the local bedouin - and it may be a few chancing their arm, or it may be more organized than that - I don't know - going in to hotels and companies demanding substantial 'protection' money and also to avoid giving arms to people in the grip of their emotions.
Train new police personnel right from the community they will serve in. This way they are already part of the community and will be respected by the people. Integrate those with more experience police officers and you have yourself a police force by the people for the people. Later after elections the police act should be thrown out and policing should become a municipal responsibility with municipalities and govern-ates having a direct say on local rules and policies.
With regard to Sharm and Sinai in general, Bedouins -not all of course but most- are opportunists and have very little if any integrity. From my experience, Bedouins from northern Sinai are much better than southerners. Almost no comparison between the two.
Posts: 1044 | Registered: Nov 2009
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quote:Originally posted by this: Train new police personnel right from the community they will serve in. This way they are already part of the community and will be respected by the people.
What do you mean by "community"? Same city, specific areas within the city? The problem I see with this, is that while trying to do their job, it might become hard to enforce laws they find friends, and possibly even family members breaking.
And, if an officer had to arrest some friend of the family, oh.....not good no matter how you look at it.
Posts: 3291 | From: I DO believe in Karma! | Registered: Apr 2002
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Meanwhile "political parties and figures in Egypt are calling for a million-man march on Friday in central Cairo’s Tahrir Square under the slogan "No to sectarian strife."
posted
It was mentioned on the news the other day, that there are over 400,000 Thugs AKA State Security employees. Is that possible, almost a half million of them? Posts: 3291 | From: I DO believe in Karma! | Registered: Apr 2002
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quote:Originally posted by this: Train new police personnel right from the community they will serve in. This way they are already part of the community and will be respected by the people.
What do you mean by "community"? Same city, specific areas within the city? The problem I see with this, is that while trying to do their job, it might become hard to enforce laws they find friends, and possibly even family members breaking.
And, if an officer had to arrest some friend of the family, oh.....not good no matter how you look at it.
From the same municipality. I don't see any problems arising from it and those scenarios you mentioned will be very few and in cases of serious crimes police guidelines and crime investigation procedures provide enough safeties to insure impartiality.
Posts: 1044 | Registered: Nov 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Laura: It was mentioned on the news the other day, that there are over 400,000 Thugs AKA State Security employees. Is that possible, almost a half million of them?
Doubt it. I heard 120,000 (total including clerks), which logically means around 25,000 actual kilab-al-dowla officers, and many more informants.
Posts: 2275 | Registered: Dec 2009
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Meanwhile "political parties and figures in Egypt are calling for a million-man march on Friday in central Cairo’s Tahrir Square under the slogan "No to sectarian strife."
quote:Originally posted by this: Train new police personnel right from the community they will serve in. This way they are already part of the community and will be respected by the people.
What do you mean by "community"? Same city, specific areas within the city? The problem I see with this, is that while trying to do their job, it might become hard to enforce laws they find friends, and possibly even family members breaking.
And, if an officer had to arrest some friend of the family, oh.....not good no matter how you look at it.
No I think that's actually a good idea. Both sides need to learn how to respect each other again and that would be a good way to do it, that's how you teach people if you're doing nothing wrong then no problem, if you are then there will be. Like parents really, you don't stop reprimanding your kids just coz you're related to them. With the correct training, and decent pay, the police could become what they are supposed to be. Back in the 60's in UK the local 'bobby' knew everyone and everyone knew him and you certainly respected him. That was a time when you could go out and leave your doors unlocked.
Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: No I think that's actually a good idea. Both sides need to learn how to respect each other again
And most of all TRUST each other - that's what I said earlier today.
It takes a good will and efforts from both sides.
It can't be that the police will show their best side from now on and the ordinary Egyptian will still not abide to any laws (and even if it's means only to buckle up in the car).
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: No I think that's actually a good idea. Both sides need to learn how to respect each other again
And most of all TRUST each other - that's what I said earlier today.
It takes a good will and efforts from both sides.
It can't be that the police will show their best side from now on and the ordinary Egyptian will still not abide to anY laws (and even if it's means only to buckle up in the car).
I agree absolutely but the problem has been how do you respect a police officer than works by bribes, and they all did. Police will have to earn that respect BY respecting the people they are supposed to be protecting.
Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
So all Egyptians can except bribes except the police from now on????
Giving and receiving bribes is as crucial as aysh baladi and water to the Egyptian people. This fact is not going to change; no way.
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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Now this is pathetic. For the office of the prime minister to not be able to develop and implement a decent website is just pathetic.
A couple of days ago or so they decided for some strange reason to write one of their posts in English and it was laughable. I commented on it and I'm sure hundreds of others and in less than a minute of it being posted was removed and never reposted. I don't know who sits on a desk and posts comments on behalf of the prime minister but it can't be someone older than 12.
Posts: 1044 | Registered: Nov 2009
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quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: So all Egyptians can except bribes except the police from now on????
Giving and receiving bribes is as crucial as aysh baladi and water to the Egyptian people. This fact is not going to change; no way.
You really need to stop your crap. You do not have a clue what Egyptians do or believe. Change is happening and nothing can stop it. It is to the better no matter how many obstacles and bumps are encountered along the way. It may get much more messy before it gets better and in the grand scheme of things, that's a price worth paying.
Posts: 1044 | Registered: Nov 2009
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Now this is pathetic. For the office of the prime minister to not be able to develop and implement a decent website is just pathetic.
A couple of days ago or so they decided for some strange reason to write one of their posts in English and it was laughable. I commented on it and I'm sure hundreds of others and in less than a minute of it being posted was removed and never reposted. I don't know who sits on a desk and posts comments on behalf of the prime minister but it can't be someone older than 12.
I would say it was built by Rainbownet of Luxor, but it can't be as it does have a doc type declaration, theirs normally don't. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: So all Egyptians can except bribes except the police from now on????
Giving and receiving bribes is as crucial as aysh baladi and water to the Egyptian people. This fact is not going to change; no way.
you really know very little about Egypt and Egyptians TL. You seem to know nothing about what really has been going on and is still going on by your babaMu.
Let me ask you another question that you wont answer, just like you wouldn't answer the Berlin wall question.
If your kids were in a school, it's the only school in the area so you have no choice. you find your kids are being very seriously abused. Do you:
a) tell the abusers off, slap a few wrists and tell them thy are on their way out but will still run the school until a new school is built with different teachers, or b) take your kids out of the school asap, report the abusers and help to carry them off to the clink and have the kids off school for a while.
Which is more detramental to the KIDS?
Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: So all Egyptians can except bribes except the police from now on????
Giving and receiving bribes is as crucial as aysh baladi and water to the Egyptian people. This fact is not going to change; no way.
re: Giving and receiving bribes is as crucial as aysh baladi and water to the Egyptian people
Egyptian people?
Where aside from goverment institutions is bribery rampant. Back up your accusations.
Depends on how you define bribe. If it is necessary to give tip to receive the service you paid for anyway then it is a bribe and that is rampant. Let's face it, Egypt is corrupt to the bone and Egyptians have been very innovative in getting bribes/tips. Having said that it will change. There are people who care. It came to me as a surprise but there are lots of people who care. During the revolution I found out that almost all my friends are self centered and not willing to do anything more than talk and at the same time met amazing number of people from all walks of life who want to give everything they have to secure better living for others. It surprised me that after that much corruption intelligent caring people survived. It was like the entire body was dieing of cancer while a healthy child is growing in the womb.
Posts: 1044 | Registered: Nov 2009
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posted
Sharm Business and Community FB group have posted that police appear to have returned to Sharm this evening, checking licences at checkpoints etc. for the first time in a month - normal police duties.
Posts: 5593 | From: Egypt | Registered: Dec 2005
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quote:Originally posted by this: You really need to stop your crap. You do not have a clue what Egyptians do or believe.
Truth hurts, doesn't it? Especially when it comes from a foreigner??
quote:Originally posted by this: Change is happening and nothing can stop it. It is to the better no matter how many obstacles and bumps are encountered along the way. It may get much more messy before it gets better and in the grand scheme of things, that's a price worth paying.
Wow .... "change is happening". Big words too big for my opinion for such a little time as it's been only four weeks since Mubarak stepped down. Lots of ideas, good and bad, but all these ideas need time to realize them. Change will come or will not come within years, many years. If it will get better or not for the ordinary Egyptian has to be seen.
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Shanta Gdeeda: what would you consider to be the best response in order to avoid the situation such as in Sharm at the moment where you have the local bedouin - and it may be a few chancing their arm, or it may be more organized than that - I don't know - going in to hotels and companies demanding substantial 'protection' money and also to avoid giving arms to people in the grip of their emotions.
I wouldn't be convinced it was the Beduoin. I haven't seen an awful lot about this apart from that there were a spate of robberies, but did they catch any of them? When it all kicked off there was story after story about the Beduoin coming to murder us all in our beds - it was all BS. And I think the police were behind it - just like the stories about crims getting out (not that they didn't, but the authorities certainly appear to have had a hand in that), gangs of robbers and all the rest of it. A massive amount of Beduoin in Sinai rely on tourists for their livelihoods just like everyone else. It's tightknit and they have their own justice system. I just don't see that one would stick out their neck for short term gain when they'd be cutting off the livelihoods of many. More like someone who no longer can rake in the dollars through corruption... Just a theory but... Can anyone account for a certain Mr M's movements on the day in question? It's well documented he was in the vicinity and must be by far the biggest crook in town Posts: 1678 | From: New Egypt Forum - http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Dec 2009
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