posted
Hey Beyoku, I too am still wondering whether lyinass is merely playing dumb in an attempt to obfuscate info OR she really is dumb. Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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I decided to re-read the latest study (2012) on the origin of M1 and U6. To date this is the most comprehensive and all inclusive study. A few sources were cited which I followed up on.
Undoubtedly M1 and U6 is African as concluded my contemporary studies. But what caught my attention was the following. The papers basically supports data from DNATribes and the Henn paper. South Arabians are essentially Africans. Now we have three independent sources basically concluding the same thing. South Arabia is an extension of Africa.
But the really pickle is questioning the origin of Jewry. Is it a Levant or North Africa lineage? It seems like SNP supports a North African origin unlike the uniparental markers.
Quote from the study: [[[[[explored the genome-wide diversity of the Jewish Diaspora with regard to that of their host populations, as well as the Middle East [45]. In their supplemental figure four, results of analyses undertaken with the software ADMIXTURE are shown, and specifically at K=10, an ancestry component depicted in deep purple colour appears. Interestingly, its proportion is particularly high amongst Mozabite Berbers, who have very high frequencies of M1 and U6 [12]. This deep purple colour is also present at a fairly high frequency amongst Moroccans, and to a lesser extent amongst Ethiopians, both Jewish and non-Jewish, and Egyptians. Its proportion in the Near Eastern populations is by far smaller than in the African ones.….]]]]]
Quote from one of the cited study. [[[Populations of the Caucasus, flanked by Cypriots, form an almost uninterrupted rim that separates the bulk of Europeans from Middle Eastern populations. Bedouins, Jordanians, Palestinians and Saudi Arabians are located in closeproximity to each other, which is consistent with a common origin in the Arabian Peninsula25, whereas the Egyptian, Moroccan, Mozabite Berber, and Yemenite samples are located closer to sub-Saharan populations (Fig. 1a and Supplementary Fig. 2a).]]]
I will post more on ESR
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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. South Arabians are essentially Africans. Now we have three independent sources basically concluding the same thing. South Arabia is an extension of Africa.
^^Could be. Can you cite a paper in support of the above?
-------------------- Note: I am not an "Egyptologist" as claimed by some still bitter, defeated, trolls creating fake profiles and posts elsewhere. Hapless losers, you still fail. My output of hard data debunking racist nonsense has actually INCREASED since you began.. Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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Quote from the study:(Kivilsid(sp) et al 2012) [[[[[explored the genome-wide diversity of the Jewish Diaspora with regard to that of their host populations, as well as the Middle East [45]. In their supplemental figure four, results of analyses undertaken with the software ADMIXTURE are shown, and specifically at K=10, an ancestry component depicted in deep purple colour appears. Interestingly, its proportion is particularly high amongst Mozabite Berbers, who have very high frequencies of M1 and U6 [12]. This deep purple colour is also present at a fairly high frequency amongst Moroccans, and to a lesser extent amongst Ethiopians, both Jewish and non-Jewish, and Egyptians. Its proportion in the Near Eastern populations is by far smaller than in the African ones.….]]]]]
Quote from one of the cited study(Behar et al 2010). [[[Populations of the Caucasus, flanked by Cypriots, form an almost uninterrupted rim that separates the bulk of Europeans from Middle Eastern populations. Bedouins, Jordanians, Palestinians and Saudi Arabians are located in closeproximity to each other, which is consistent with a common origin in the Arabian Peninsula25, whereas the Egyptian, Moroccan, Mozabite Berber, and Yemenite samples are located closer to sub-Saharan populations (Fig. 1a and Supplementary Fig. 2a).]]]
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:"Particularly, Yemen has the largest contribution of L lineages (30). So, most probably, this area was the entrance gate of a portion of these lineages in prehistoric times, which participated in the building of the primitive Arabian population."
--Khaled K Abu-Amero et al., Mitochondrial DNA structure in the Arabian Peninsula
quote: 3396-4218-15514-15944del and the control region motif 16209–16519 with a TMRCA of 57,100 ± 9,400 YBP. This haplogroup diversifies into sub-haplogroups L3f1, L3f2 and L3f3. The most geographically widespread sub-haplogroup is L3f1, which is distributed across the African continent [3] and also Arabia [32,33] and has a TMRCA of 48,600 ± 11,500 YBP.
--Viktor Černý et al., Migration of Chadic speaking pastoralists within Africa based on population structure of Chad Basin and phylogeography of mitochondrial L3f haplogroup
quote: The main island of Soqotra lies not far from the proposed southern migration route of anatomically modern humans out of Africa ∼60,000 years ago (kya), suggesting the island may harbor traces of that first dispersal.
----Viktor Černý, Am J Phys Anthropol, 2009, Out of Arabia—The settlement of Island Soqotra as revealed by mitochondrial and Y chromosome genetic diversity
From The Nubian Complex.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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Yall must be joking. "Southern Arabians" are NOT "Africans." There is a clear genetic divide between even Egyptians and Palestinians. There is likely a larger one between Southern Arabians and Sub Saharan East Africans.
Posts: 2463 | From: New Jersey USA | Registered: Dec 2007
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Ooookk....ignoring the emotional out burst....I showed you mines...you show me yours.
I am sympathetic and partial to SSA myself, but ignoring hollywood phenotype, I provided Henn, DNATribes and now Behar et al....
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Did anyone take a close look at the cited figure 4,sup from Behar? The pattern is clearly migration into Southern Arabia. What is really fascinating is the Mongols at K2. I wonder what it any demographic event will explain that. DJ. That is your part of the world. I read about the Sindhi etc of Pakistan.
Will C&C soon.
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What do you think I am referencing on U6 and M1?
on Behar. The supplement is free, that is all that is needed….the data packet
my bad. It IS free. The entire study by Behar..
The genome-wide structure of the Jewish people Doron M. Beha
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Did anyone take a close look at the cited figure 4,sup from Behar? The pattern is clearly migration into Southern Arabia. What is really fascinating is the Mongols at K2. I wonder what it any demographic event will explain that. DJ. That is your part of the world. I read about the Sindhi etc of Pakistan.
Will C&C soon.
I have seen Behar. You must be talking about this?
THe only way you could argue what you are arguing if you made a similar hypothesis based on what is happening here:
The Hypothesis is quite clear and I dont need to spell it out. Even then though that is pushing it, and In now way does that make Arabians "African."
You guys are taking this ownership thing a little too far. How can we take arguments like this serious. IF you are arguing they are "Africans" you are going to have to spell it out with abundant details in your own words please.
Posts: 2463 | From: New Jersey USA | Registered: Dec 2007
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[QB] Quote from the study:(Kivilsid(sp) et al 2012)
Although mtDNA is a single locus, some parallels concerning the African expansion of M1 and U6 can be drawn from autosomal data. In a recent study, Behar and colleaguesexplored the genome-wide diversity of the Jewish Diaspora with regard to that of their host populations, as well as the Middle East [45]. In their supplemental figure four, results of analyses undertaken with the software ADMIXTURE are shown, and specifically at K=10, an ancestry component depicted in deep purple colour appears. Interestingly, its proportion is particularly high amongst Mozabite Berbers, who have very high frequencies of M1 and U6 [12]. This deep purple colour is also present at a fairly high frequency amongst Moroccans, and to a lesser extent amongst Ethiopians, both Jewish and non-Jewish, and Egyptians. Its proportion in the Near Eastern populations is by far smaller than in the African ones.]
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: [QB] What do you think I am referencing on U6 and M1?
The Complex and Diversified Mitochondrial Gene Pool of Berber Populations
C. Coudray1
_______________________________________MOZAB
***************************************** MOZABITES U6 .283 H .247 M1 .047 J .035 ( J is characteristic hg for Arabs) *****************************************
^^^^^ U6 AND U5 NOT FOUND IN NEAR EAST/ARABIA WITH FREQUENCIES HIGH ENOUGH TO MAKE THIS CHART "Haplogroup U5 is found also in small frequencies and at much lower diversity in the Near East It is common (around 10% of the people) in North Africa (with a maximum of 29% in an Algerian Mozabites) and the Canary Islands (18% on average with a peak frequency of 50.1% in La Gomera). It is also found in the Iberian peninsula, where it has the highest diversity (10 out of 19 sublineages are only found in this region and not in Africa),
posted
@ Beyoku. Exactly. See even the Sandhi and Makrani. The African(Berbers and SSA) presence is proportional. This is consistent with migration as a group. This pattern is seen also in South Arabia and Iran(Persia). Consistent with ...
Obviously the uniparental male marker is E1b1b1*.
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see Pakistan and Iran/Persia. I said it a thousand times. Sergi got it right!!!
Henn, DNATribes, Behar, Underhill agree with Sergi
The question is ....is the source Sudan area as Sergi suggested or more central North(Tunisia/Kivilsid) or Mazabite/Behar. P. Underhill agreed it was NOT due to "slavery".
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I am saying not Arabians are "Africans". But their genetic makeup, those in the south, is consistent with migrants. The archeological record also supports that view as TP pointed out.
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Notice the heavy North African components in Sardinia!! K5-K10 Damn!!! This is some fascinating shyte.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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But..***************************************** MOZABITES U6 .283 H .247 M1 .047 J .035 ( J is characteristic hg for Arabs) *****************************************
J - male or female?
Anyways. That is exactly my point. The only way this makes sense ie the uniparental markers agree with SNP is coming to terms that there is no "Eurasian" haplogroups. Then it all falls into place..geographically and genetically. U is African, H is also African. U was part of the initial wave, that is why aDNA have them that far North(Malstrom et al). Prior to the LGM. H is part of the 2nd wave post LGM.
Quote: ^^^^^ U6 AND U5 NOT FOUND IN NEAR EAST/ARABIA WITH FREQUENCIES HIGH ENOUGH TO MAKE THIS CHART
There is a reason why U is not found in the near East and Arabia. Because it did NOT originate in the near East And Arabia irregardless of the BS delusional belief.
As I said the HGDP program will make liars of them.
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I doubt very much there was a contemporary Sub-Sahara African(barring Biaka types) until about 6000ya.
Remember the Garamantes, Neolithic SSA and Roman Egyptians were all Caucasoids!!! LOL! Sources cited.
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: South Arabians are essentially Africans.
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: I am saying not Arabians are "Africans". But their genetic makeup, those in the south, is consistent with migrants. The archeological record also supports that view as TP pointed out.
when are you going to put up some haplogroup percentages of South Arabians? where is your genetics of South Arabia refernces?
Am J Phys Anthropol. 2012 Oct;149(2):291-8. doi: 10.1002/ajpa.22131. Epub 2012 Aug 24. Pleistocene-Holocene boundary in Southern Arabia from the perspective of human mtDNA variation. Al-Abri A, Podgorná E, Rose JI, Pereira L, Mulligan CJ, Silva NM, Bayoumi R, Soares P, Cerný V. Source Department of Biochemistry, College of Medicine & Health Sciences, Sultan Qaboos University, Muscat, Oman.
Abstract It is now known that several population movements have taken place at different times throughout southern Arabian prehistory. One of the principal questions under debate is if the Early Holocene peopling of southern Arabia was mainly due to input from the Levant during the Pre-Pottery Neolithic B, to the expansion of an autochthonous population, or some combination of these demographic processes. Since previous genetic studies have not been able to include all parts of southern Arabia, we have helped fill this lacuna by collecting new population datasets from Oman (Dhofar) and Yemen (Al-Mahra and Bab el-Mandab). We identified several new haplotypes belonging to haplogroup R2 and generated its whole genome mtDNA tree with age estimates undertaken by different methods. R2, together with other considerably frequent southern Arabian mtDNA haplogroups (R0a, HV1, summing up more than 20% of the South Arabian gene pool) were used to infer the past effective population size through Bayesian skyline plots. These data indicate that the southern Arabian population underwent a large expansion already some 12 ka. A founder analysis of these haplogroups shows that this expansion is largely attributed to demographic input from the Near East. These results support thus the spread of a population coming from the north, but at a significantly earlier date than presently considered by archaeologists. Our data suggest that some of the mtDNA lineages found in southern Arabia have persisted in the region since the end of the Last Ice Age.
Genetic Evidence for the Expansion of Arabian Tribes into the Southern Levant and North Africa
Almut Nebel,1,* Ella Landau-Tasseron,2 Dvora Filon,1 Ariella Oppenheim,1 and Marina Faerman3
In a recent publication, Bosch et al. (The following popper user interface control may not be accessible. Tab to the next button to revert the control to an accessible version.Destroy user interface control2001) reported on Y-chromosome variation in populations from northwestern (NW) Africa and the Iberian peninsula. They observed a high degree of genetic homogeneity among the NW African Y chromosomes of Moroccan Arabs, Moroccan Berbers, and Saharawis, leading the authors to hypothesize that “the Arabization and Islamization of NW Africa, starting during the 7th century ad, … [were] cultural phenomena without extensive genetic replacement” (p. 1023). H71 (Eu10) was found to be the second-most-frequent haplogroup in that area. Following the hypothesis of Semino et al. (The following popper user interface control may not be accessible. Tab to the next button to revert the control to an accessible version.Destroy user interface control2000), the authors suggested that this haplogroup had spread out from the Middle East with the Neolithic wave of advance. Our recent findings (Nebel et al. The following popper user interface control may not be accessible. Tab to the next button to revert the control to an accessible version.Destroy user interface control2000, The following popper user interface control may not be accessible. Tab to the next button to revert the control to an accessible version.Destroy user interface control2001), however, suggest that the majority of Eu10 chromosomes in NW Africa are due to recent gene flow caused by the migration of Arabian tribes in the first millennium of the Common Era (ce).
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posted
Seems like you are not following. The genetic evidence is that the spread of Islam was cultural and not demographic.(RSI).
This is getting old.....
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: [QUOTE]when are you going to put up some percentages of South Arabians? where is your genetics of South Arabia refernces?
-and your RSI theory, Reverse Spread of Islam?
Just in case you don't get it...AIM/SNP Combined with Haplogroups tells the story. That is why Henn added to verify her hypothesis with haplogroups/lineage
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Notice the heavy North African components in Sardinia!! K5-K10 Damn!!! This is some fascinating shyte.
What are you talking about. Maybe you should read on how STRUCTURE/ADMIXTURE programs work. North Africans differentiate at K=10. Sardinia is VOID of a North African component at K=10.
That Sindh and Makrani have absorbed some Africans does not make the original populations one of recent migrants from Africa. These 2 South Asian population have African admixture that is documented and recent based on Y-DNA/MTdna studies. THe same can be said for most populations in the Arabian peninsula. Calling these folks African is like saying Admixture Latinos are "African". Also the gradient map is old and incorrect. E1b1a does not reach such a high frequency in Somalia. That map is all over the place.
What is the source of the image with the Dots in the Sahara/Sahel?
Posts: 2463 | From: New Jersey USA | Registered: Dec 2007
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: The genetic evidence is that the spread of Islam was cultural and not demographic.(RSI).
So, the Y Chromosome J clades in Northern Africa that are just a couple of thousand years old, are cultural as well?
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As usual some of us are talking and not saying anything(Bob Marley/Peter Tosh?). You cite something and don’t understand the significance. I give you credit for at least “trying”. Ignoring the rant by the author. Let’s look at the FACTS.
For clarity Eu10 is essentially haplogroup J* more specifically J1 and NOT E1b1b1* as some may think. That said
******* Genetic Evidence for the Expansion of Arabian Tribes into the Southern Levant and North Africa To the Editor:
Most geneticist believe : [[[[They observed a high degree of genetic homogeneity among the NW African Y chromosomes of Moroccan Arabs, Moroccan Berbers, and Saharawis, leading the authors to hypothesize that “the Arabization and Islamization of NW Africa, starting during the 7th century AD, … [were] cultural phenomena without extensive genetic replacement” (p. 1023). H71 (Eu10) was found to be the second-most-frequent haplogroup in that area. Our recent findings (Nebel et al. 2000, 2001), however, suggest that the majority of Eu10 chromosomes in NW Africa are due to recent gene flow caused by the migration of Arabian tribes in the first millennium of the Common Era (CE). This low diversity may be indicative of a recent founder effect. Where did these chromosomes come from? ]]] The author is saying hg-J are RECENT arrivals and NOT ancient. So the question is, is hg-J* African or Middle Eastern?
Quote: [[[[ The highest frequency of Eu10 (30%–62.5%) has been observed so far in various Moslem Arab populations in the Middle East (Semino et al. 2000; Nebel et al. 2001). The most frequent Eu10 microsatellite haplotype in NW Africans is identical to a modal haplotype (DYS19-14, DYS388-17, DYS390-23, DYS391-11, DYS392-11, DYS393-12) of Moslem Arabs who live in a small area in the north of Israel, the Galilee (Nebel et al. 2000). This haplotype, which is present in the Galilee at 18.5%, was termed the modal haplotype of the Galilee (MH Galilee) (Nebel et al. 2000). Notably, it is absent from two distinct non-Arab Middle Eastern populations, Jews and Muslim Kurds, both of whom have significant Eu10 frequencies—18% and 12%, respectively (Nebel et al. 2001). Interestingly, this modal haplotype is also the most frequent haplotype (11 [∼41%] of 27 individuals) in the population from the town of Sena, in Yemen (Thomas et al. 2000). Its single-step neighbor is the most common haplotype of the Yemeni Hadramaut sample (5 [∼10%] of 49 chromosomes; Thomas et al. 2000). THE PRESENCE OF THIS PARTICULAR MODAL HAPLOTYPE AT A SIGNIFICANT FREQUENCY IN THREE SEPARATE GEOGRAPHIC LOCALES (NW AFRICA, THE SOUTHERN LEVANT, AND YEMEN) MAKES INDEPENDENT GENETIC-DRIFT EVENTS UNLIKELY. ]]]]]. To sum up. Jews and Kurds although carry hg-J don’t carry the specific Galilee hg-J modal type. This modal hg-J is carried by Galilee Tribes, Yeminis and NW Africans. The Galilee Tribes btw also carry, guess what , Cameroonian R1b(V-88). See my post on ESR . All are essential Africans(DNATribes et al) along with the Yemeni Tribes. BTW- Ethiopians also carry this haplotype. I wonder why they were left out. Anyways.
[[[[ Then the author goes on a rant on what he read in books.]]]]
The facts are hg-J* (upstream) are found in essentially African groups. When it is found in Arabia/Levant it is also found in groups with a strong African genetic influence. Go figure.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
The facts are hg-J* (upstream) are found in essentially in African groups either in Arabia/Levant or …Africa. ie when it is found in Arabia/Levant it is also found in groups with a strong African genetic influence. Go figure.
Hey. I believe hg-J in Africa is older than a 1000yo. But I am not the one saying this. See above. LOL! The author(2010 – cited by Lioness – who did not read it) proposing this. Hey, we can believe what we want to believe once presented with the data.
But what is really itching my crotch is…is hg-J* really African?. Indication is it can be either
quote:Originally posted by Swenet:
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: The genetic evidence is that the spread of Islam was cultural and not demographic.(RSI).
So, the Y Chromosome J clades in Northern Africa that are just a couple of thousand years old, are cultural as well?
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Ok! Ok! Ok! You don’t like the word “African”, how about “essentially African” or “diasporan African”. I know…”admixed Africans”? The admixture map is what it is…admixture maps. According to DNATribes, Behar(admixture map), Henn and others , South Arabian groups carry both African/Saharan SNPs and African lineage. The question is hg-J* African also.
I would say if the group carries more than 50% African lineage and SNP’s…. label them Afrrican. So YES, they are Africans….well maybe not the Pakistani groups. My point there is..it went over your head…recent African SNPs, lineage can be found as far as Pakistan…and Sardinia. Are they Africans per the one drop rule…wink! wink! Henn seems to agree.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
So you prefer “admixed African” vs “African”. I prefer “African”, if they carry greater than 50% African genes. So yes. Arabia is an extension of Africa. And by the one drop rule Sardinia is an extension of Africa.(North). Remember DNATribes label them as Saharan/Arabia. I prefer Saharan/African. Bottom line: The South Arabians carry similar genetic makeup to Saharans. Henn came across the same data, Behar also. Henn suggested the back-migration occurred 40000ya. But asked to confirm it with hg- testing. All agree that the current Levant population is distinct from those further south(except for isolated pockets in the Levant) essentially because of greater SSA introgression and presence. The pattern is consistent to what is found on the motherland. Saharans to the North and SSA to the south. South Arabia is an extension of Africa. Prove me wrong….ANYONE
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: You got a trashing before. Remember. Jari is not going to save you.
You thrashing me? You have to be kidding me, son. As old as 2008:
quote:We study the major levels of Y-chromosome haplogroup variation in 15 Sudanese populations by typing major Y-haplogroups in 445 unrelated males representing the three linguistic families in Sudan. Our analysis shows Sudanese populations fall into haplogroups A, B, E, F, I, J, K, and R in frequencies of 16.9, 7.9, 34.4, 3.1, 1.3, 22.5, 0.9, and 13% respectively. Haplogroups A, B, and E occur mainly in Nilo-Saharan speaking groups including Nilotics, Fur, Borgu, and Masalit; whereas haplogroups F, I, J, K, and R are more frequent among Afro-Asiatic speaking groups including Arabs, Beja, Copts, and Hausa, and Niger-Congo speakers from the Fulani ethnic group. Mantel tests reveal a strong correlation between genetic and linguistic structures (r = 0.31, P = 0.007), and a similar correlation between genetic and geographic distances (r = 0.29, P = 0.025) that appears after removing nomadic pastoralists of no known geographic locality from the analysis. The bulk of genetic diversity appears to be a consequence of recent migrations and demographic events mainly from Asia and Europe, evident in a higher migration rate for speakers of Afro-Asiatic as compared with the Nilo-Saharan family of languages, and a generally higher effective population size for the former. The data provide insights not only into the history of the Nile Valley, but also in part to the history of Africa and the area of the Sahel.
posted
^ You are not familiar with structre/admixutre. Also please explain the North African component in Sardinia at K=10?
What I see in K=10 in Sardinians is a Southern European component (Light Blue) that peaks IN Sardinia, and a Northern European component (Dark Blue) that peaks in Russians...making up that vast majority of the Sardinian profile.
I see North Africans differentiating at K=10 in Dark Purple.
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OK, what exactly is xxyman arguing here? Is he claiming that modern Southern Arabians are all essentially African from a genetic standpoint? Has he even seen photos of most South Arabians on Google image search?
Also, his argument that the Islamic conquest of North Africa entailed no demographic movements, haplogroup J notwithstanding, is a talking point you usually see coming from the Eurocentric camp. It seems out of character for him.
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posted
Ok. ....3 on 1. I like the odds. This gets my dick hard. The easy ones first. Trex and Sweetness are non-starters. More to come, busy right now.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
You know what Sweetness. I am starting to question your intelligence. You talk a good game but what you put out as an argument makes me question your acumen. Essentially you are arguing that if Hassan says so …it is so. Where is the proof/data The bulk of genetic diversity appears to be a consequence of recent migrations and demographic events mainly from Asia and Europe, Clearly DNATribes, Henn Behar etc published COMPARISON data across the Levant/Africa/Arabia.
Are you saying hg-E is Eurasian or is it hg-J? I am not sure. Help me out here brother. Thread lightly now. Jari or Sage is not going to plead your case on this one. You step in it you clean it up.
Quote from Hassan [[[Our analysis shows Sudanese populations fall into haplogroups A, B, E, F, I, J, K, and R in frequencies of 16.9, 7.9, 34.4, 3.1, 1.3, 22.5, 0.9, and 13% respectively.]]]
You are dumber than I thought brother. Sorry to put it like that. But you stepped in it. Time to cut that dread and give up on the weed.
A, B and E =59.2%. All clearly African. R is now recognize as essentially R-V88(13%) also African. So what WTF are you talking about. Get out of my face!!!
Listen, get a pen and paper out when I post.
All talk……
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posted
So TRex argument is “ I have never seen “photos “ of South Arabians images on TV”. Well…I am lost for words. How can I argue against that. Now, not even Lioness is not that dumb. He/Lioness and maybe even other understands my point. Yes, North Africans look like what they look like because of the biological niche they occupy which incidently is similar to southern Arabia. No pictures needed. I made that clear a thousand times. It is called adaptation/science. And yes, if I am to believe the genetic evidence, the Islamic invasion was primarily cultural. And is hg-J African or Asian. I don’t know, I am working on that. J1/J* seems to be African. J2 – Levant or Turkey.
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posted
Wow. Xyyman is questioning my intelligence. That really keeps me awake at night.
To the rest of the forum:
quote:The dates of admixture (assuming 30 years per generation)42 are reported in Table 1. Notably, in most of the Semitic, Cushitic, and Omotic populations, the admixture of African and non-African ancestry components dates to 2.5–3 kya, whereas in North Africa, the admixture dates are ~2 ky more recent, clustering around 1 kya, consistent with previous reports.
--Pagani et al 2012
While I don't believe this represents the first and only admixture date, Pagani et al nonetheless picked up on admixture in North Africa that coincides with the Islamic invasion. The results of other authors agree with the aforementioned time stamp:
quote:Under a pulse model of migration, a significant increase in gene flow likely occurred ~700 ya, after the Arabic expansion into North Africa 1,400 ya.
--Henn et al 2012
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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posted
xyyman if you wanted to prove that the South Arabians are essentailly African then you should have started with articles that are about Arabians in the title, where Arabians are the main theme of the article, studies that talk about the hap group percentages of Arab genetic ancestry. And find your own articles not the ones I posted, thanks
Let me ask you a question:
Are modern Egyptians primarily African?
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Swenet: Wow. Xyyman is questioning my intelligence. That really keeps me awake at night.
To the rest of the forum:
quote:The dates of admixture (assuming 30 years per generation)42 are reported in Table 1. Notably, in most of the Semitic, Cushitic, and Omotic populations, the admixture of African and non-African ancestry components dates to 2.5–3 kya, whereas in North Africa, the admixture dates are ~2 ky more recent, clustering around 1 kya, consistent with previous reports.
--Pagani et al 2012
While I don't believe this represents the first and only admixture date, Pagani et al nonetheless picked up on admixture in North Africa that coincides with the Islamic invasion. The results of other authors agree with the aforementioned time stamp:
quote:Under a pulse model of migration, a significant increase in gene flow likely occurred ~700 ya, after the Arabic expansion into North Africa 1,400 ya.
--Henn et al 2012
After reading the passage in its full context, the aforementioned Henn et al reference appears not to refer to the Arabic expansion. What they say about Near Eastern ancestry in North African populations is:
quote:More recently, the substantial, east-to-west decline of Near Eastern ancestry (Figure 1A) could represent a defined migration associated with Arab conquest 1,400 ya or merely gene flow occurring gradually among neighboring populations along a North African | Arabian Peninsula transect.
--Henn et al 2012
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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posted
Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! This is out of context! Damn! brotha! I had enough......
as I said...stop smoking that shyte. I did when I left my teens. It can fugkup your brain!!
quote:Originally posted by Swenet: ]Under a pulse model of migration, a significant increase in gene flow likely occurred ~700 ya, after the Arabic expansion into North Africa 1,400 ya.
--Henn et al 2012 [/QUOTE]
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
Sorry babe...eh buddy. I get carried away sometimes. That said. You article was perfect example of mis-direction..or is it mis-representation. Swenet is the Arts Major. I am just a technical grunt..data miner.
You cited an article in which you probably just read the title and made assumptions. Similarly with Henn's paper. The title is misleading. As the Geek crew said...it is all about sensational headliners.
I assume you are now going to read the said paper. Remember the author presented data to support his hypothesis that hg-J was a "recent" hg to North Africa. ie less than 1000yo.
Sweetness being an ass said that was also my belief.
The only FACTS from the data you cited was Yemenis, Galileeans, Ethiopians and some North Africans carry an ancient hg-J NOT found in "Jews" and Turks/Kurds.
The AUTHOR went on to rant this was the signal of the islamic invasion stemming from South Arabia commencing about about 1000CE.
I commented on this was an ancient signal, showing African presence in Arabia. Possibly hg-J* being African.
Listen..if I have to explain these papers you are in the wrong line of work, man.
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: xyyman if you wanted to prove that the South Arabians are essentailly African then you should have started with articles that are about Arabians in the title, where Arabians are the main theme of the article, studies that talk about the hap group percentages of Arab genetic ancestry. And find your own articles not the ones I posted, thanks
Let me ask you a question:
Are modern Egyptians primarily African?
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
BTW. It does matter what you do in your bedroom. It is the agenda that pisses me off.
quote:Originally posted by Swenet: [QUOTE]Originally posted by Swenet: Wow. Xyyman is questioning my intelligence. That really keeps me awake at night.
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
Beyoku, I will get back at you. Double checking a few things on SNPs.
To get started...how am I screwing up? You said I misunderstand the Behar chart. I am saying Sardinians carry high frequency of North Africans components(k-10 clearly shows that) as displayed by light blue. The dark blue being European.
Set me straight. Careful now.....go slowly Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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[[The only FACTS from the data you cited was Yemenis, Galileeans, Ethiopians and some North Africans carry an ancient hg-J NOT found in "Jews" and Turks/Kurds]]
That make it 50/50. Problem is the two on the Arabian peninsular have a STORNG African makeup. ie Galileeans and Sena/Hadramdath(sp). So guess which side I am coming down on? tic! toc!
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
According to xyyman's theory that "Saharan-Arabian" = "pure African", accordingly one of the Bedouin groups groups of the Negev desert in Israel are 94% African, more "pure" African than any North African or some SSAs
_________________________________________^^94%
Maybe xyyman can explain why in the above^^^ DNATribes chart the term "Northeast African" doesn't have the word "Arabian" in it
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
To summarize: The current Berber population in North Africa are "purer" Africans than current Egyptians.....as presented by the data above.
Please don't ask me the same question again. The "AEians are Black African" is old and has been answered.
The really intriguing question is how far and the extent "recent" Africans migrated into neighboring regions.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: Maybe xyyman can explain why in the above DNATribes chart the term "Northeast African" doesn't have the word "Arabian" in it
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
Quoting things out of context is a new low for you MOM/Sweetness. I am surprised and I sense desperation as you stare defeat again. Sage or Jari are not around for you to salvage some pride. That is the price you pay for “fronting”.
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: BTW. It does matter what you do in your bedroom. It is the agenda that pisses me off.
quote:Originally posted by Swenet: [QUOTE]Originally posted by Swenet: Wow. Xyyman is questioning my intelligence. That really keeps me awake at night.
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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