Pinhasi R, Thomas MG, Hofreiter M, Currat M, Burger J.
Source
Department of Archaeology, University College Cork, Cork, Ireland. ron_pinhasi@yahoo.com
Abstract
The evolutionary history of modern humans is characterized by numerous migrations driven by environmental change, population pressures, and cultural innovations. In Europe, the events most widely considered to have had a major impact on patterns of genetic diversity are the initial colonization of the continent by anatomically modern humans (AMH), the last glacial maximum, and the Neolithic transition. For some decades it was assumed that the geographical structuring of genetic diversity within Europe was mainly the result of gene flow during and soon after the Neolithic transition, but recent advances in next-generation sequencing (NGS) technologies, computer simulation modeling, and ancient DNA (aDNA) analyses are challenging this simplistic view. Here we review the current knowledge on the evolutionary history of humans in Europe based on archaeological and genetic data.
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Any takers...? In case you are wondering? This proves Torrinni's Refugia Theory and the recolonization of Europe is BS ...give them about a year they will come completely around. H1 are recent African migrants to Europe. It is so simple...compare the diversity of H1 in Europe to Africa.
QUOTE:
================ Using mitochondrial DNA to test the hypothesis of a European post-glacial human recolonization from the Franco-Cantabrian refuge.
García O, Fregel R, Larruga JM, Álvarez V, Yurrebaso I, Cabrera VM, González AM.
Source
Basque Country Forensic Genetics Laboratory, Erandio, Bizkaia, Spain.
Abstract
It has been proposed that the distribution patterns and coalescence ages found in Europeans for mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) haplogroups V, H1 and H3 are the result of a post-glacial expansion from a Franco-Cantabrian refuge that recolonized central and northern areas. In contrast, in this refined mtDNA study of the Cantabrian Cornice that contributes 413 partial and 9 complete new mtDNA sequences, including a large Basque sample and a sample of Asturians, NO!!! experimental evidence was found to support the human refuge-expansion theory. In fact, all measures of gene diversity point to the Cantabrian Cornice in general and the Basques in particular, as less polymorphic for V, H1 and H3 than other southern regions in Iberia or in Central Europe. Genetic distances show the Cantabrian Cornice is a very heterogeneous region with significant local differences. The analysis of several minor subhaplogroups, based on complete sequences, also suggests different focal expansions over a local and peninsular range that did not affect continental Europe. Furthermore, all detected clinal trends show stronger longitudinal than latitudinal profiles. In Northern Iberia, it seems that the highest diversity values for some haplogroups with Mesolithic coalescence ages are centred on the Mediterranean side, including Catalonia and South-eastern France.
I agree. I believe H1 was introduced to Europe during the African Muslim expansion into Europe and settlement in Iberia for almost 1000 years.
posted
Come on Clyde. .....the distribution pattern does not support that premise. The pattern is not consistent with invasion. It is consistent with demic diffusion and expansion.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: I agree. I believe H1 was introduced to Europe during the African Muslim expansion into Europe and settlement in Iberia for almost 1000 years.
Ahw hell naww!
These nutty mtDNA H1 fruitbaskets are all over the place.
Posts: 8807 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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posted
I believe he was being facetious...but what is your view (sic)
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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Pinhasi R, Thomas MG, Hofreiter M, Currat M, Burger J.
Source
Department of Archaeology, University College Cork, Cork, Ireland. ron_pinhasi@yahoo.com
Abstract
The evolutionary history of modern humans is characterized by numerous migrations driven by environmental change, population pressures, and cultural innovations. In Europe, the events most widely considered to have had a major impact on patterns of genetic diversity are the initial colonization of the continent by anatomically modern humans (AMH), the last glacial maximum, and the Neolithic transition. For some decades it was assumed that the geographical structuring of genetic diversity within Europe was mainly the result of gene flow during and soon after the Neolithic transition, but recent advances in next-generation sequencing (NGS) technologies, computer simulation modeling, and ancient DNA (aDNA) analyses are challenging this simplistic view. Here we review the current knowledge on the evolutionary history of humans in Europe based on archaeological and genetic data.
^^SO what conclusions do you draw from their analysis xyz?
Using mitochondrial DNA to test the hypothesis of a European post-glacial human recolonization from the Franco-Cantabrian refuge.
García O, Fregel R, Larruga JM, Álvarez V, Yurrebaso I, Cabrera VM, González AM.
Source
Basque Country Forensic Genetics Laboratory, Erandio, Bizkaia, Spain.
Abstract
It has been proposed that the distribution patterns and coalescence ages found in Europeans for mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) haplogroups V, H1 and H3 are the result of a post-glacial expansion from a Franco-Cantabrian refuge that recolonized central and northern areas. In contrast, in this refined mtDNA study of the Cantabrian Cornice that contributes 413 partial and 9 complete new mtDNA sequences, including a large Basque sample and a sample of Asturians, NO!!! experimental evidence was found to support the human refuge-expansion theory. In fact, all measures of gene diversity point to the Cantabrian Cornice in general and the Basques in particular, as less polymorphic for V, H1 and H3 than other southern regions in Iberia or in Central Europe. Genetic distances show the Cantabrian Cornice is a very heterogeneous region with significant local differences. The analysis of several minor subhaplogroups, based on complete sequences, also suggests different focal expansions over a local and peninsular range that did not affect continental Europe. Furthermore, all detected clinal trends show stronger longitudinal than latitudinal profiles. In Northern Iberia, it seems that the highest diversity values for some haplogroups with Mesolithic coalescence ages are centred on the Mediterranean side, including Catalonia and South-eastern France.
^6SO the Franco-Canto refugium theory is shaky?
-------------------- Note: I am not an "Egyptologist" as claimed by some still bitter, defeated, trolls creating fake profiles and posts elsewhere. Hapless losers, you still fail. My output of hard data debunking racist nonsense has actually INCREASED since you began.. Posts: 5935 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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posted
And what do you think of Dinkenes claim below- quote:
On the earliest settlement of Europe- from Pinhasi study:
Until recently, the earliest date for the first appearance of AMH in Europe had been set to around 42 to 43 ka solely based on their proposed association with Aurignacian artifacts (Table 1) [5,6]. New direct radiocarbon dates of fossils support this view and indicate that AMH appeared in Europe by 44.2– 41.5 calibrated (cal.) ka BP at Kent’s Cavern in southern England [6] and by 45–43 cal. ka BP in Grotta del Cavallo, Italy [7], whereas Neanderthals did not survive in most of Europe and the Caucasus after 39 cal. ka BP [8,9].
Dinkes then claims:
These dates are so close to the MP/UP transition in the Levant (49-46 cal ky BP), with the Aurignacian appearing shortly thereafter in both Central Europe and Italy. It would appear that modern humans swiftly colonized Europe after they made the crucial UP leap. Of course, in my opinion, this population was ultimately descended from inhabitants of Arabia, escaping post-70ka climatic deterioration and pre-100ka with the archaeologically attested Nubian Complex. But, in any case, it is probably the last crucial step, when humans went into warp drive post-50ka that led to the first modern human colonization of Europe and ultimately the extinction (or absorption?) of the Neandertals.
-------------------- Note: I am not an "Egyptologist" as claimed by some still bitter, defeated, trolls creating fake profiles and posts elsewhere. Hapless losers, you still fail. My output of hard data debunking racist nonsense has actually INCREASED since you began.. Posts: 5935 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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In that respect, it is important to note the correspondence between the West_Asian autosomal component and the k5 component of Metspalu et al. (2011): the latter is the major West Eurasian element in the Indian subcontinent. If a major episode of West Eurasian admixture took place in India 1,200-4,000 years ago, and keeping in mind uncertainties about dating, it may very well be that this corresponds, at least in part, to the eastern manifestation of the same phenomenon.
The Bronze Age is an important transitional phase in European archaeology: distinctive archaeological cultures with distinctive physical types make their appearance across the continent. There appears to be substantial innovation in metallurgy, weapons and transportation, increase in raiding, abandonment of settlements, and formation of broad-range confederacies with distinctive archaeological markers.
I propose that a quantum leap in social complexity occurred during this period. Remarkably, after ~4,000YBP, there are no longer farmers and hunter-gatherers as distinct cultures anywhere in Europe, and their mtDNA gene pools begin to expand in synch with each other. It may very well be that climatic upheavals framing this period may have triggered population movements, both Indo-European and Semitic.
Perhaps, through a combination of better technology and social organization, the Indo-European speaking nucleus, originally one among many linguistic groups of the prehistoric Near East were able to transmit their language, culture, and ideology to much larger populations, by alternatively subjugating or incorporating them. We can thus view the Indo-European bearers as "creative destructors", upsetting the balance of established societies and re-creating them in their own image.
Both the wide differences in genetic composition among present-day Indo-European speakers, and their early-attested physical contrasts testify to the fact that the original IE nucleus did not maintain itself apart --at least not for long!-- from the populations they encountered; in this they appear different from the earlier farmers who apparently kept their Mediterranean affinity even in the northernmost edge of their expansion, thousands of years after their entry into Europe.
^^His model has a "social complexity leap" in Europe being due to the influence of incoming West Asians.
One wonders about this statement also: " Remarkably, after ~4,000YBP, there are no longer farmers and hunter-gatherers as distinct cultures anywhere in Europe.. "
-------------------- Note: I am not an "Egyptologist" as claimed by some still bitter, defeated, trolls creating fake profiles and posts elsewhere. Hapless losers, you still fail. My output of hard data debunking racist nonsense has actually INCREASED since you began.. Posts: 5935 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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posted
When studying the significance of coalescence ages reported in journals, one has to be careful in how to interpret such data, as it is generally sensitive to the DNA-sequencing data and estimation methods employed by the observing parties.
quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari- :
You know explorer brings up a good point, that is say me, Al and Swenet are correct in that the Genetic heritage of the Coastal N. African population is due to a long drawn out process rather than recent slave markets, the question becomes.. why are European/Eurasian male DNA not reflected? Good question.
A good question for which solid tangible reply, i.e. non-dogmatic and no robo-parroting with little understanding of DNA science, is still wanting.
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: I never mentioned the "extermination" factor which may have been shunting off males with no previous North African maternity.
Knowing the Kikuyu and Maasai conducted death raids against each other saving alive and taking only younger females and the lack of nrY hgs expected by South Europe whole family settlers (unless hidden in E-M78 or whatever) and rock art of chalk white men with European armaments but never with women or in family scenes makes one wonder.
As I noted, the scenario is plausible; what it requires however, is solid evidence, especially in the EpiPaleolithic or pre-EpiPaleolithic Maghrebi context.
PS: What “European armaments” are we talking about, and dated when, according to what dated material?
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: European/Eurasian male DNA is reflected in the topic article Genomic Ancestry of North Africans Supports Back-to-Africa Migrations Henn
Name these “male”-specific DNA.
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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posted
^^^^ any haplogroup I would mention you will say is African because all DNA is a branch which eventually leads back to Africa. Clyde says there are no non-African haplogroups
Y-Chromosome and mtDNA..Contrasts in Affinities of mod Africans and Europeans
posted
@ Z Don't frequent Dienkass, but, I will respond when finished reading. But as I said to Swenet coalescene age is easily manipulated. I believe Explorer is saying the same thing. They, researchers, can easily resolve the true origin of hg-H, by disclosing the diversity of H between Iberia, Tunisia, Morocco, Sahel, Sardinia and. Burkina-afasso. Based upon the data released is far, frequency, Africa is the most probable origin. The fine thread they are holding on to is coalescene age which is bssed upon an "estimated" mutation rate. Which can widen the C- age by 10000 years.
Diversity combined with frequency is undeniable proof.
They combine the two when researching amongst Africans or amongst Europeans but never between Africans and Europeans.
They revert back to "coalescene age" between Africans and Europeans.
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
And Clyde may be right. All European HG may have a North African origin. Geographically it makes sense. Plus North Africa was occupied long before Europe by AMH. Tunisia and Morocco were jump off points to Iberia and Sardinia. Iberia was a beach head to amh. That would exlain the frequency pathern observed.
Now reading a DNA study on unexplained, SSA DNA in the Azores. Looks like Africans were sailing offshores long before Europeans. Will post on ESR.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Come on Clyde. .....the distribution pattern does not support that premise. The pattern is not consistent with invasion. It is consistent with demic diffusion and expansion.
What do you think an invasion of tens of thousands of people who remained in the region for almost 1000 years is.
posted
I don't frequent Dienkes' forum either, but judging from the citations I am quite surprised by what he's saying now in that in that it is a complete turn around from the idiocy that he used to spew. I still question the whole Eurasian back-migration argument, not that I dismiss it outright. I find it curious how in North Africa indigenous E-M35 yet in Sub-Sahara you have alleged Eurasian clades like R and T.
Posts: 26453 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: ^^^^ any haplogroup I would mention you will say is African because all DNA is a branch which eventually leads back to Africa.
This remark is based on the emotional need to find a diversion for lack of an answer grounded on rational thinking.
I don't make statements that I don't offer objective explanation for, but sharp people who are accustomed to this forum already know this.
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: But as I said to Swenet coalescene age is easily manipulated. I believe Explorer is saying the same thing.
To be precise, the point I was making pertains to inexperienced understanding and interpretations thereof, of coalescence ages, that one sees regularly on forums and blogs. But yes, there are some out there who manipulate to deceive the uninformed.
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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posted
Now reading Perriera et al 2003. She (Luisa) confirmed detecting mtDNA hg-U5 in SSA Guinea!!! She said she did not publish the data(numbers)....I wonder why? Looks like most European HG is of recent African orgin.
I am not saying hg-H1 is African. Just that based upon the evidence so far Africa is the most likely place of origin. Usig their (Euros) yardstick. They can set the record straight with a simple disclosure of data. But they haven't..or wouldn't. I am becoming more convinced with many recent discoveries of "European" lineage in the Sahel and SSA.
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ... I find it curious how in North Africa indigenous E-M35 yet in Sub-Sahara you have alleged Eurasian clades like R and T.
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posted
Yes. The franco-cantabria theory is shaky. When you reading enough of these studies it will hit you that many geneticist don't buy into it. Remember it was Torroni who introduced it back in 1999?. So any paper he authors or co-authors will continuosly reference it. Barbajuni(?) think it is crap. Point is, know the history of the authors. That is why you read many different point of views.
Point of the first cited paper is . New technology is changing old theories. aDNA is already doing that. eg if you need to know who the Etruscans are ...analyze their DNA!!! what a novel idea. Ramesess III come to mind.
aDNA is proving that ancient Europeans are genetically different to the extant ones.
New technologies is making it easy to determine age of lineage
quote:Originally posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova: The genetic history of Europeans.
Pinhasi R, Thomas MG, Hofreiter M, Currat M, Burger J.
Source
Department of Archaeology, University College Cork, Cork, Ireland. ron_pinhasi@yahoo.com
Abstract
The evolutionary history of modern humans is characterized by numerous migrations driven by environmental change, population pressures, and cultural innovations. In Europe, the events most widely considered to have had a major impact on patterns of genetic diversity are the initial colonization of the continent by anatomically modern humans (AMH), the last glacial maximum, and the Neolithic transition. For some decades it was assumed that the geographical structuring of genetic diversity within Europe was mainly the result of gene flow during and soon after the Neolithic transition, but recent advances in next-generation sequencing (NGS) technologies, computer simulation modeling, and ancient DNA (aDNA) analyses are challenging this simplistic view. Here we review the current knowledge on the evolutionary history of humans in Europe based on archaeological and genetic data.
^^SO what conclusions do you draw from their analysis xyz?
Using mitochondrial DNA to test the hypothesis of a European post-glacial human recolonization from the Franco-Cantabrian refuge.
García O, Fregel R, Larruga JM, Álvarez V, Yurrebaso I, Cabrera VM, González AM.
Source
Basque Country Forensic Genetics Laboratory, Erandio, Bizkaia, Spain.
Abstract
It has been proposed that the distribution patterns and coalescence ages found in Europeans for mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) haplogroups V, H1 and H3 are the result of a post-glacial expansion from a Franco-Cantabrian refuge that recolonized central and northern areas. In contrast, in this refined mtDNA study of the Cantabrian Cornice that contributes 413 partial and 9 complete new mtDNA sequences, including a large Basque sample and a sample of Asturians, NO!!! experimental evidence was found to support the human refuge-expansion theory. In fact, all measures of gene diversity point to the Cantabrian Cornice in general and the Basques in particular, as less polymorphic for V, H1 and H3 than other southern regions in Iberia or in Central Europe. Genetic distances show the Cantabrian Cornice is a very heterogeneous region with significant local differences. The analysis of several minor subhaplogroups, based on complete sequences, also suggests different focal expansions over a local and peninsular range that did not affect continental Europe. Furthermore, all detected clinal trends show stronger longitudinal than latitudinal profiles. In Northern Iberia, it seems that the highest diversity values for some haplogroups with Mesolithic coalescence ages are centred on the Mediterranean side, including Catalonia and South-eastern France.
^6SO the Franco-Canto refugium theory is shaky?
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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aDNA is proving that ancient Europeans are genetically different to the extant ones.
Distribution map of the Egyptian Gene shows its African origin, partial presence in Coptic populations today (green dots in Egypt) and scattered incidence around the world.
Today, as many as one-fourth of all people on earth would test positive for the Thuya Gene. It is twice as common in Somalia as outside Africa and is found in 40% of Muslim Egyptians.
Citation: Hawass Z, Gad YZ, Ismail S, et al. Ancestry and Pathology in King Tutankhamun's Family. JAMA. 2010;303(7):638-647.
The Akhenaten Gene.
Named for the pharaoh who attempted to convert Egypt to monotheism, this autosomal ancestry marker like most of the Amarna family group’s DNA is clearly African in origin. Akhenaten received it from his mother, Queen Tiye. It is most common today in Copts. Today, it is the gene type carried by a majority (52%) of the Copts living in the Pre-dynastic site of Adaima near Thebes or Luxor and the Valley of the Kings on the Nile River in Upper (southern) Egypt.
The Egyptian Gene.
Although not carried in the royal mummies whose DNA has been studied so far, this autosomal ancestry marker is also clearly African in origin and enjoys its greatest spread in Egyptians. Quite rare worldwide, it is found in about 1 in 10 Copts, today’s successors to the ancient Egyptians. Less than one percent of European Americans have it, while African Americans preserve it at a rate of three times that of their white neighbors.
Thuya Gene
Today, its highest incidence is in Somalians at nearly 50%. It is found in 40% of Muslim Egyptians. On average, 1 in 3 Africans or African Americans carries it. It crops up in high concentrations in many places around the world such as the Basque region (41%) and in Melungeons (31%, similar to Middle Easterners)
Posts: 43062 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
lioness, where are those "male" specific European DNA requested of you, that you bragged about? This is the time to demonstrate that this is not just an imagination...like the fictitious drivel you tried to pin onto me as a diversion.
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote:Originally posted by The Explorer: lioness, where are those "male" specific European DNA requested of you, that you bragged about? This is the time to demonstrate that this is not just an imagination...like the fictitious drivel you tried to pin onto me as a diversion.
quote me where I bragged
Posts: 43062 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
The quote is still up on this very page, where I first made said request of you.
-------------------- The Complete Picture of the Past tells Us what Not to Repeat Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Some of what Dienkess contend make sense, and the data supports it. I have come to the similar conclusion on SOME of these issues.
1. I have always supported the view that there was very little, if any, interaction between Neanderthal and AMH(see ESR). This was also pointed out in the referenced Pinhasi study. The supposedly Neanderthal admixture has been debunked by two separate authors recently. The aim of that study was to, again, put SSA as a seperate "species" of humanity. As one of those authors put it, we are not sure it was even possible, to biological create an offsrping after they(AMH/Neanderthal) cleaned up(He! He! He!). It is quite possible AMH played a part in their demise. ie food. Normally we don't fougk our food. Right Mike?!
2. What Dienkess is saying about the timing of Neaderthal extinction agrees with Pinhasi(approximately 7ky difference). Dienkess is proposing AMH entered Europe via Arabia with the Aurignacian culture. I am contending AMH may also have entered Europe from the South (Africa) and the Aterian culure which is much older. Geographically that makes more sense. AMH was on the shores of North Africa circa 90,000ya. They have been entering Europe through Iberia and Italian peninsular ever since. Neanderthal weren't absorbed.
3. Quote by Dienkess
"and keeping in mind uncertainties about dating". I AGREE.
"The Bronze Age is an important transitional phase in European archaeology: distinctive archaeological cultures with [u]distinctive physical types make their appearance across the continent[/u]. There appears to be substantial innovation in metallurgy, weapons and transportation, increase in raiding, abandonment of settlements, and formation of broad-range confederacies with distinctive archaeological markers". Note; "distinctive physical types make their appearance across the continent".
I AGREE. I said this all along. Modern Europeans are an admixture of North Africans and Near East Asians(European Steppes, Aryans-R1b1a2*). Remember the Basque are genetically YOUNGER than the modern Europeans. the challenge then is , deducing the migration route. My guess is the Basque may be Saharans that came through North Africa and entered Iberia. That is why the Basque craniometrically, Alu, and E1b1b etc align with Berbers. Who was it that posted(Bass or Beyoku?) who mentioned there may have been an old, upstream, population carry R1b* some place in Central Africa. Modern Europeans(R1b1a2*) were the new metal age migrants into Europe by left Africa before the Basque, occupied central Near East Asia for 1000's of year then moved West. An aggressive, warlike, plundering, "creative destructors - per Dienkess", group of humans.
4.Quote by Zarahan One wonders about this statement also: " Remarkably, after ~4,000YBP, there are no longer farmers and hunter-gatherers as distinct cultures anywhere in Europe.. ". As DJ pointed, he is surprised by that statement of Dienkess. Modern Europeans are now one. The conquerors and conquered are now one. An admixture of North Africans and people from Asia.
The craniometric data, aDNA (Malstrom, Babujani, etc), and extant DNA of modern European leads one to that conclusion. In short Dienkess agrees with what I have been posting all along.
Hats off to him. He is getting off the dogma wagon train and using logic and common sense in his blog. Current genetic data propose modern Europeans entered Western Europe, AFTER, the Neolithic age(posted on ESR) ie the metal age. Computer simulation put their origin someplace in the East.
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Their dates have been revised and they are now mostly assigned to a period between 90 and 35 ka. Although the Aterian human fossil record is exclusively Moroccan, Aterian assemblages are found throughout a vast geographical area extending to the Western Desert of Egypt. Their makers represent populations that were located close to the main gate to Eurasia and that immediately predated the last out-of-Africa exodus.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
@ Lioness Production: I got to admit you can be crafty to the unsuspecting and ignorant. But with me, you are out of your league. As usual mis-reprersentatiion of Hawass’s JAMA report. Ie typical white man deception.
Hawass and JAMA never proposed a Thuya or Akhenaten Gene etc. That proposal was made by a commercial company trying to sell their product.
There is no such thing as a Thuya gene etc sheeeeesh!!. You are a sneaky son of a bythch.. Hawass is a bigot but I don’t think he will make up such a silly lie that he can get caught in.
There is no such thing as a Thuya gene!!!!! Just as there is no such thing as a Neanderthal gene. This is all advertisement by commercial companies to sell their product….DNA Analysis. Shyte mine came back 4% Neanderthal (GTFOH!!)
I am speaking from memory, on the JAMA report, will need to double check, but the only authenticated data(ie facts) that came from the JAMA report was the STRs. DNAtribes was the first to make the connection, take that STR(8) data and affiliate it with a known global population from their database. Now anyone with a computer and the right software can do it.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
I can out-think you with both hands tied behind my back ie handicapped.. Ha! Ha! Come on Sammy/Neal. That’s all you got? Bring back HoremB …or is Lioness Production that person?
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: @ Lioness Production: I got to admit you can be crafty to the unsuspecting and ignorant. But with me, you are out of your league. As usual mis-reprersentatiion of Hawass’s JAMA report. Ie typical white man deception.
Hawass and JAMA never proposed a Thuya or Akhenaten Gene etc. That proposal was made by a commercial company trying to sell their product.
There is no such thing as a Thuya gene etc sheeeeesh!!. You are a sneaky son of a bythch.. Hawass is a bigot but I don’t think he will make up such a silly lie that he can get caught in.
There is no such thing as a Thuya gene!!!!! Just as there is no such thing as a Neanderthal gene. This is all advertisement by commercial companies to sell their product….DNA Analysis. Shyte mine came back 4% Neanderthal (GTFOH!!)
I am speaking from memory, on the JAMA report, will need to double check, but the only authenticated data(ie facts) that came from the JAMA report was the STRs. DNAtribes was the first to make the connection, take that STR(8) data and affiliate it with a known global population from their database. Now anyone with a computer and the right software can do it.
You are just quibbling with the names they are using. They are simply referring to MLIs On the DNAtribes report which is also a private commercial comapany selling testing, they did not list in their Amarna tables what they did list in their global population categories: Egyptian Copts, Siwa Berbers aand Egyptian Muslims.
In the DNATribes Amarna digest they just lump this presumably into Levantine or North African regions. Now imagine the averaging that would result.
But the DNA Consultants analysis did focus on on these specific ethnic groups
Profit motive? There is more profit motive in saying that the Amarna DNA was African generally than pointing to specific groups like Copts and Somalis
Posts: 43062 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
Just checked JAMA. This is NOT from the Amarna JAMA report. Man, you white people are experts at deception and misdirection and mis-representation.. You almost got me. The ignorant can easily get fooled by you.
In fact, the illustration looks like that software developer's from the San Diego Police Dept. I posted the popaffl link on ESR.
Anywho what the pic show. Strongest, greenest, match is SSA and Aframs.
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by xyyman:
aDNA is proving that ancient Europeans are genetically different to the extant ones.
Distribution map of the Egyptian Gene shows its African origin, partial presence in Coptic populations today (green dots in Egypt) and scattered incidence around the world.
Today, as many as one-fourth of all people on earth would test positive for the Thuya Gene. It is twice as common in Somalia as outside Africa and is found in 40% of Muslim Egyptians.
Citation: Hawass Z, Gad YZ, Ismail S, et al. Ancestry and Pathology in King Tutankhamun's Family. JAMA. 2010;303(7):638-647.
The Akhenaten Gene.
Named for the pharaoh who attempted to convert Egypt to monotheism, this autosomal ancestry marker like most of the Amarna family group’s DNA is clearly African in origin. Akhenaten received it from his mother, Queen Tiye. It is most common today in Copts. Today, it is the gene type carried by a majority (52%) of the Copts living in the Pre-dynastic site of Adaima near Thebes or Luxor and the Valley of the Kings on the Nile River in Upper (southern) Egypt.
The Egyptian Gene.
Although not carried in the royal mummies whose DNA has been studied so far, this autosomal ancestry marker is also clearly African in origin and enjoys its greatest spread in Egyptians. Quite rare worldwide, it is found in about 1 in 10 Copts, today’s successors to the ancient Egyptians. Less than one percent of European Americans have it, while African Americans preserve it at a rate of three times that of their white neighbors.
Thuya Gene
Today, its highest incidence is in Somalians at nearly 50%. It is found in 40% of Muslim Egyptians. On average, 1 in 3 Africans or African Americans carries it. It crops up in high concentrations in many places around the world such as the Basque region (41%) and in Melungeons (31%, similar to Middle Easterners)
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: [QB] Just checked JAMA. This is NOT from the Amarna JAMA report. Man, you white people are experts at deception and misdirection and mis-representation.. You almost got me. The ignorant can easily get fooled by you.
In fact, the illustration looks like that software developer's from the San Diego Police Dept. I posted the popaffl link on ESR.
Anywho what the pic show. Strongest, greenest, match is SSA and Aframs.
It is DNAConsultants mapping charts based on JAMA data just like DNATribes used their own propietary charts in their Amarna and Ramesses III reports, stop the nonsense, you are not up on the scoop
Posts: 43062 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: lioness productions
lol you stupid ignorant bitch.
^^^ lowlife fraud who thinks Trayvon Martin got what he deserved
And you deserve all the humiliating ass whipping you've gotn on this board since your dumbass logged on under that name. lol
Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009
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posted
^^^ you have no value whatsoever on this site. You contribute no information. You just insult people and everybody here hates your ass
Posts: 43062 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: ^^^ you have no value whatsoever on this site.
Is this why you keep replying to me instead backing up your shitty misinformed posts as requested? lol
Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
Well at least somebody understands these articles are proprietary musings, they are not scientific reports or studies which always list the authors' names and institute affiliations.
quote:Originally posted by xyyman:
Hawass and JAMA never proposed a Thuya or Akhenaten Gene etc. That proposal was made by a commercial company trying to sell their product.
There is no such thing as a Thuya gene!!!!! Just as there is no such thing as a Neanderthal gene. This is all advertisement by commercial companies to sell their product….DNA Analysis. Shyte mine came back 4% Neanderthal (GTFOH!!)
Science is about replicity so one really needs genome reports from say 3 analyzers to validate an individual's personal genetics. And even then field advances will modify current interpretations.
Posts: 8179 | From: the Tekrur straddling Senegal & Mauritania | Registered: Dec 2011
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I have gone past the Caucasoid/Negroid nonsense. Or whether the AEians were indigenous Black Africans. They undoubtedly were. What is fascinating and holding my interest is how extensive these Saharan African civilizations reached the shores of the Mediterranean. Using available tools to piece things together; Archeology, geography, aDNA, extant DNA, Osteometry and linguistic(very little knowledge with this).
Always start with the most obvious locations. Sardinia, Iberia, Crete and the Levant. After all these ancient humans did not take airplanes and flew over these connecting points.
Critiquing this paper shows again how deceptive Europeans are. It is obvious the Nuragic(Sardinia) Civilization were African migrants (goes back to Sergi). DNA technology is proving Sergi right. If no takers I will post on ESR.
For those not familiar with the Nuragic civilization read up on it. I just did. And I was shocked with the similarity to the Sahara rock technology and buildings. Another example of Europeans stealing African history. The archeological technology is definitely African. Now I am researching the aDNA studies.
Further more I now see how the Etruscans fit into the migration route. And why Etruscia is on the WESTERN side of the Italian peninsular.
Apparently the Sardinians and Etruscans are from the Tunisian line of North Africans while the Pelegascians and Cretes are from the Egyptian line of North Africans.
Here is the ancient genetic evidence
To the newbies. – understanding geography is really important.
========== Caramelli and GUIDO BARBUJANI et al Genetic variation in prehistoric Sardinia
Abstract We sampled teeth from 53 ancient Sardinian (Nuragic) individuals who lived in the Late Bronze Age and Iron Age, between 3,430 and 2,700 years ago. After eliminating the samples that, in preliminary biochemical tests, did not show a high probability to yield reproducible results, we obtained 23 sequences of the mitochondrial DNA control region, which were associated to haplogroups by comparison with a dataset of modern sequences. The Nuragic samples show a remarkably low genetic diversity, comparable to that observed in ancient Iberians, but much lower than among the Etruscans. Most of these sequences have exact matches in two modern Sardinian populations supporting a clear genealogical continuity from the Late Bronze Age up to current times. The Nuragic populations appear to be part of a large and geographically unstructured cluster of modern European populations, thus making it diffcult to infer their evolutionary relationships. However, the low levels of genetic diversity, both within and among ancient samples, as opposed to the sharp divergences among modern Sardinian samples, support the hypothesis of the expansion of a small group of maternally related individuals, and of comparatively recent differentiation of the Sardinian gene pools.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
Caramelli and GUIDO BARBUJANI et al Genetic variation in prehistoric Sardinia
Abstract We sampled teeth from 53 ancient Sardinian (Nuragic) individuals who lived in the Late Bronze Age and Iron Age, between 3,430 and 2,700 years ago. After eliminating the samples that, in preliminary biochemical tests, did not show a high probability to yield reproducible results, we obtained 23 sequences of the mitochondrial DNA control region, which were associated to haplogroups by comparison with a dataset of modern sequences. The Nuragic samples show a remarkably low genetic diversity, comparable to that observed in ancient Iberians, but much lower than among the Etruscans. Most of these sequences have exact matches in two modern Sardinian populations supporting a clear genealogical continuity from the Late Bronze Age up to current times. The Nuragic populations appear to be part of a large and geographically unstructured cluster of modern European populations, thus making it diffcult to infer their evolutionary relationships. However, the low levels of genetic diversity, both within and among ancient samples, as opposed to the sharp divergences among modern Sardinian samples, [b]support the hypothesis of the expansion of a small group of maternally related individuals, and of comparatively recent differentiation of the Sardinian gene pools.
_____________________________________________
Frozen in the ice 5,300 years ago, Ötzi man mostly closely resembles the people of Sardinia and their distinctive genetic profile according to the recent article:
New insights into the Tyrolean Iceman’s origin and phenotype as inferred by whole-genome sequencing.
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Anyone willing to discuss this?
I have gone past the Caucasoid/Negroid nonsense. Or whether the AEians were indigenous Black Africans. They undoubtedly were. What is fascinating and holding my interest is how extensive these Saharan African civilizations reached the shores of the Mediterranean. Using available tools to piece things together; Archeology, geography, aDNA, extant DNA, Osteometry and linguistic(very little knowledge with this).
Always start with the most obvious locations. Sardinia, Iberia, Crete and the Levant. After all these ancient humans did not take airplanes and flew over these connecting points.
Critiquing this paper shows again how deceptive Europeans are. It is obvious the Nuragic(Sardinia) Civilization were African migrants (goes back to Sergi). DNA technology is proving Sergi right. If no takers I will post on ESR.
For those not familiar with the Nuragic civilization read up on it. I just did. And I was shocked with the similarity to the Sahara rock technology and buildings. Another example of Europeans stealing African history. The archeological technology is definitely African. Now I am researching the aDNA studies.
Further more I now see how the Etruscans fit into the migration route. And why Etruscia is on the WESTERN side of the Italian peninsular.
Apparently the Sardinians and Etruscans are from the Tunisian line of North Africans while the Pelegascians and Cretes are from the Egyptian line of North Africans.
Here is the ancient genetic evidence
To the newbies. – understanding geography is really important.
========== Caramelli and GUIDO BARBUJANI et al Genetic variation in prehistoric Sardinia
Abstract We sampled teeth from 53 ancient Sardinian (Nuragic) individuals who lived in the Late Bronze Age and Iron Age, between 3,430 and 2,700 years ago. After eliminating the samples that, in preliminary biochemical tests, did not show a high probability to yield reproducible results, we obtained 23 sequences of the mitochondrial DNA control region, which were associated to haplogroups by comparison with a dataset of modern sequences. The Nuragic samples show a remarkably low genetic diversity, comparable to that observed in ancient Iberians, but much lower than among the Etruscans. Most of these sequences have exact matches in two modern Sardinian populations supporting a clear genealogical continuity from the Late Bronze Age up to current times. The Nuragic populations appear to be part of a large and geographically unstructured cluster of modern European populations, thus making it diffcult to infer their evolutionary relationships. However, the low levels of genetic diversity, both within and among ancient samples, as opposed to the sharp divergences among modern Sardinian samples, support the hypothesis of the expansion of a small group of maternally related individuals, and of comparatively recent differentiation of the Sardinian gene pools.
Your claims are rather exaggerated or overgeneralized though there is some truth to it. For one thing, genetics and archaeology have already shown the Etruscans and Pelasgians to be of Asiatic descent NOT African, however there was no doubt an African presence prior to the migrations of these Asiatic folks both in Crete as well as in Sicily.
Posts: 26453 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
Ahem!! I expect more than just regurgitation. or mindless quotes. Please, read the paper then critique. If you can't... forget about it. I will move on. This is from the study..anyone?
I will make it easy. There are a couple of sentences from the authors that give it all away.
And ...DJ... I prefer not be condescending, but I know you can't help yourself. You said you went to college. Hint: Imagine you are taking an exam. Start with the process of elimination
BTW: The authors conclude that the Sardinians (Nuragic) are probably Iberian and defintely NOT Asian. Do you want me to point it out to you....? They were emphatic about NOT being Asian.
My point is the data shows a different origin. And they even said so within the paper but glossed over it.
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
Guido Barbujani et al concluded the Etruscans are NOT from Asia or Anatolia....do you want me to post it? If you don't know that then don't waste my time.
Achille et al, the bigot, initially claimed Anatolian origin. Barbujani et al debunked that premise.
Once you read enough you know who the key players are and there point of view.
Come on Lioness. You claim to be smart...
if not I will move on and post on ESR. I am getting some hits there. Maybe Dienkess will get it also Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Ahem!! I expect more than just regurgitation. or mindless quotes. Please, read the paper then critique. If you can't... forget about it. I will move on. This is from the study..anyone?
I will make it easy. There are a couple of sentences from the authors that give it all away.
And ...DJ... I prefer not be condescending, but I know you can't help yourself. You said you went to college. Hint: Imagine you are taking an exam. Start with the process of elimination
BTW: The authors conclude that the Sardinians (Nuragic) are probably Iberian and defintely NOT Asian. Do you want me to point it out to you....? They were emphatic about NOT being Asian.
My point is the data shows a different origin. And they even said so within the paper but glossed over it.
I don't know how these findings contradict what I said. And yes you are being a bit condescending for someone who seems new to this stuff let alone not an expert. And by the way, my claim was not so much the Nuragic people of Iberia but the eastern Mediterranean as well as the Italian mainland. We all know Iberia has more African influence than Asiatic. Also, I was the first person to point out an African influence if not origin for the Sea Peoples of the Italian Islands like Sardinia as noted in the thread here. Neolithic Malta is a huge clue.
Posts: 26453 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Guido Barbujani et al concluded the Etruscans are NOT from Asia or Anatolia....do you want me to post it? If you don't know that then don't waste my time.
Achille et al, the bigot, initially claimed Anatolian origin. Barbujani et al debunked that premise.
Can you cite his work then. The Anatolian origins for the Etruscans are pretty much documented by genetics in the form of paternal lineages associated with Anatolia which was discussed here and here, as well as maternal lineages as shown here, and more recently genetic lineage of cattle also pointing to Anatolia. This along with certain religious traits and customs such as augury and haruspicy just to name a few which are distinctly Asiatic and especially Anatolian, as well as the Etruscans' own legends saying they are from Anatolia .
So to dismiss all of this in favor of African origins simply because there are/were African elements in the Italian peninsula is mistake and a non-start to say the least, but at most make one look like an Afroloon like Mike.
Posts: 26453 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
Much better response, will get back to you. But we are talking Nuragic now. Onto Lioness...her one-liners doesn't take much effort to respond to.
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Quote from Lioness: Most of these sequences have exact matches in two modern Sardinian populations supporting a clear genealogical continuity from the Late Bronze Age up to current times
Grade = C-
Now look at the chart and read the paper again.
We are not comparing the Nuragic population with extant population of Sardinia.
We are trying to determine whence these people came bringing there technology.
The answer is one of the 8 listed. Notice I said 8 and not 10. You know why, don't you?
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Quote from Lioness: Most of these sequences have exact matches in two modern Sardinian populations supporting a clear genealogical continuity from the Late Bronze Age up to current times
Grade = C-
Now look at the chart and read the paper again.
We are not comparing the Nuragic population with extant population of Sardinia.
We are trying to determine whence these people came bringing there technology.
The answer is one of the 8 listed. Notice I said 8 and not 10. You know why, don't you?
How come you are grading me a C- for quoting an article YOU posted ?
Posts: 43062 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
When I look at that Table 4 I immediately see 1:1 correspondance between Sardinia and North Africa unique sharing of 4 Nuragic haplotypes * CA02 et al * ST16 * AL07 * CA14, SE13
posted
You are the man!!!!!! Key word "Unique." At least some of us are understanding this stuff and not pretenders....
They mention that in the study but in the next breath go back to an Iberian origin.
They even admitted those "unique" haplotypes to an ancient connection.
I don't get it, how they can concluded on a Iberian origin? Someone help me.
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