quote:Originally posted by Clear and QSY: No. Even when I don't have the dog. But someone told me it is because I don't look friendly and I never smile. I walk around looking as if I could snap someone's head off even when I am in a good mood. I think this comes from living in the Bronx. Mean streets made me tough.
You do smile... maybe not as much as me but I am called Bashousha (ignore spelling) by my egyptian friends.
Even in the UK I am always walking around on air, kinda oblivious to many things... perhaps I should visit the bronx Posts: 11097 | From: Cairo | Registered: May 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Tigerlily: I lost my patience many times in the past with Egyptian guys on the street although I never kicked someone's car door in!!
It really helps when you have children by your side. My daughter is now ten and when we went to Cairo Downtown and other places a few months ago they left me alone. Really I didn't experience any harassment this time around. I just received the normal questions like where I am from etc.
See Dalia it's a bonus to have children - at least in Egypt!!
I guess not in Luxor. The last comment was "I wish I was his father", pointing at my son and then the whole group (obvious gigolos) had a nasty laugh. I got soooooo mad. They got little bit scared of my camera but still laughed from far...really nice They are ruining the image of Egypt.
Posts: 758 | From: Finland | Registered: Jun 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Clear and QSY: No. Even when I don't have the dog. But someone told me it is because I don't look friendly and I never smile. I walk around looking as if I could snap someone's head off even when I am in a good mood. I think this comes from living in the Bronx. Mean streets made me tough.
You do smile... maybe not as much as me but I am called Bashousha (ignore spelling) by my egyptian friends.
Even in the UK I am always walking around on air, kinda oblivious to many things... perhaps I should visit the bronx
Not true. I don't smile when I am by myself on the street or around people I don't know.
You have seen me smile because I know you. Many people say they are afraid to talk to me when they first see me because I seem so unfriendly.
Posts: 1626 | From: whatever, wherever | Registered: Jul 2008
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quote:Originally posted by cloudberry: I guess not in Luxor. The last comment was "I wish I was his father", pointing at my son and then the whole group (obvious gigolos) had a nasty laugh.
Oh that's pretty bad!!
Now when I was in Egypt (and my husband wasn't around) I was asked if I was married to an Egyptian or someone said that my daughter looked Egyptian or blah blah blah ..... but really only quite normal stuff.
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Tigerlily: See Dalia it's a bonus to have children - at least in Egypt!!
I can always borrow one if I want to.
I can ship you one over - ANYTIME! You'd love my daughter, she's such a girl. But my youngest son is the easiest to handle!!
Now that is awful to be even getting harassed while pregnant. When I was visibly pregnant looking I already lived in Maadi and perhaps people have more respect there towards others and are anyway used to see foreigners.
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by cloudberry: I guess not in Luxor. The last comment was "I wish I was his father", pointing at my son and then the whole group (obvious gigolos) had a nasty laugh.
Oh that's pretty bad!!
Now when I was in Egypt (and my husband wasn't around) I was asked if I was married to an Egyptian or someone said that my daughter looked Egyptian or blah blah blah ..... but really only quite normal stuff.
Must have just wanted to start a conversation with you because your daughter does not look anything like an Egyptian child.
That's almost as bad a someone asking LF (with her blond hair and blue eyes) if she was Chinese.
I was walking around in Tahrir with a friend and was followed by this guy who kept asking me if I was German. I didn't answer him at all so naturally he took that as a no and then decided I was Russian...French...Spanish... I was even asked by some people at work if I was Lebanese I don't look like any of these LOL.
Posts: 1626 | From: whatever, wherever | Registered: Jul 2008
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You are right. If anything my daughter has Latina in her looks cause it's in her genes.
I got many times asked if I was Russian - I see that as an insult!! Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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This is really sad that it's this bad!! LOL @ the kicking doors in!! I wonder what these guys success rate is?
Posts: 71 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2009
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I got asked in Zara the other week if I spoke Italian... why the hell was he asking me in English!!!!!!!!!!
The guys do just wanna get talking in the hope of trying to strike a conversation. when I ws told I had Egyptian eyes was the funniest!!! I just asked him why and he had no answer... moron
One guy was bothering me and a friend on an escalator in City stars.. you know the usual banter but he wsa with a western looking woman.. so I turned around and said 'your friend clearly wants us to talk to you becasue we are westerners... are you ok, can I help?' she was from my home town in the UK!!!!!!!! We went to the same college and had the same tutor... small world eh. She is happily married to a taxi driver in Luxor. He just wanted her to meet folk in Cairo as she likes to visit for the shopping. We are now friends.
Posts: 11097 | From: Cairo | Registered: May 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Pink Ferret: I got asked in Zara the other week if I spoke Italian... why the hell was he asking me in English!!!!!!!!!!
The guys do just wanna get talking in the hope of trying to strike a conversation. when I ws told I had Egyptian eyes was the funniest!!! I just asked him why and he had no answer... moron
One guy was bothering me and a friend on an escalator in City stars.. you know the usual banter but he wsa with a western looking woman.. so I turned around and said 'your friend clearly wants us to talk to you becasue we are westerners... are you ok, can I help?' she was from my home town in the UK!!!!!!!! We went to the same college and had the same tutor... small world eh. She is happily married to a taxi driver in Luxor. He just wanted her to meet folk in Cairo as she likes to visit for the shopping. We are now friends.
]Honestly, I think I am the only person who has never been harrassed. I walk by myself and never hear one comment. The day Pink Ferret came to Maadi and was walking with me was the first time I heard comments. And they were directed at her not me.
I must be very unattractive by Egyptian standards. LOL. [/QB]
No, you're not the only one.
My precisely 3 minor sexual harassment incidents from 18 months ago have been given here before.
Other than that, no comments, no gropes, no hassles (of the sexual variety) and that is travelling on buses, microbuses, metros and all hours of the day and night.
I was on the bus from Heliopolis to Pyramids about midnight on Saturday and I thought, I wish I had an invisible camera on my head filming everyone on the bus so I could prove to people that I don't even get a glance after the initial "blimey a foreigner and on a bus" look.
Several people on ES rather patronisingly decided to inform me that of course I had been sexually harassed I simply didn't know that was what it was. Well believe me, I do, very very well.
Oh yes, I did do something incredibly idiotic a couple of weeks ago when I was very distracted and got my boob groped by a SAUDI guy. That was sexual harassment but not by an Egyptian.
I do know at least 3 other posters here who have not been harassed either but it is up to them whether they choose to restate their positions or not.
Posts: 5593 | From: Egypt | Registered: Dec 2005
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^Yes certain words are and how they act during it. I don't mind the usuals and wouldn't call it harassment, when there is nothing that could offend. But it is not right either that someone approaches a woman on a street just for fun, even to say hello where are you from. They wouldn't do that to an Egyptian, esp in places like Luxor. I haven't seen any Egyptian asking an Egyptian lady 'hey what's your name, where do you live'. Maybe not harassment but inappropriate, yes. And they know it.
Posts: 758 | From: Finland | Registered: Jun 2006
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Yes, tourist hassle is annoying but it is not SEXUAL harassment and I personally draw a very clear distinction between the two.
Posts: 5593 | From: Egypt | Registered: Dec 2005
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Nothing can be done unless these people change their mentality - and that won't happen at least not in our lifetime.
And yes Italians are pretty flirty too but I never had probs with Greek guys etc. actually it's rather the opposite. I'd harass them lol!! Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by cloudberry: ^Yes certain words are and how they act during it. I don't mind the usuals and wouldn't call it harassment, when there is nothing that could offend. But it is not right either that someone approaches a woman on a street just for fun, even to say hello where are you from. They wouldn't do that to an Egyptian, esp in places like Luxor. I haven't seen any Egyptian asking an Egyptian lady 'hey what's your name, where do you live'. Maybe not harassment but inappropriate, yes. And they know it.
I have women come up to me and ask me where Ia m from and strike up a polite conversation... it seems when a women does it is viewed she is practising her english but when a man does it he is harrassing you...
I personally don't mind being spoken to but as soon as the conversation shifts from polite and friendly to creepy I just say I have to go now.
Posts: 11097 | From: Cairo | Registered: May 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Tigerlily: Nothing can be done unless these people change their mentality - and that won't happen at least not in our lifetime.
And yes Italians are pretty flirty too but I never had probs with Greek guys etc. actually it's rather the opposite. I'd harass them lol!!
I know you're jesting TL, but why is the subject of male sexual harassment not taken seriously?
I know of several cases of MALE EGYPTIANS who have been sexually harassed by FEMALE WESTERNERS. They have no-one to turn to.
Posts: 5593 | From: Egypt | Registered: Dec 2005
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quote:Originally posted by cloudberry: ^Yes certain words are and how they act during it. I don't mind the usuals and wouldn't call it harassment, when there is nothing that could offend. But it is not right either that someone approaches a woman on a street just for fun, even to say hello where are you from. They wouldn't do that to an Egyptian, esp in places like Luxor. I haven't seen any Egyptian asking an Egyptian lady 'hey what's your name, where do you live'. Maybe not harassment but inappropriate, yes. And they know it.
I have women come up to me and ask me where Ia m from and strike up a polite conversation... it seems when a women does it is viewed she is practising her english but when a man does it he is harrassing you...
I personally don't mind being spoken to but as soon as the conversation shifts from polite and friendly to creepy I just say I have to go now.
It must depend where you are. Cairo - would't worry so much but Luxor - if the other men around you see (it's a small town after all, everyone knows your business) that you allow strange men to approach you they will do the same. That's why it is not good to talk there to anyone on the street.
Actually it is not right even to stop someone else's wife on the street if she is alone and I see decent men do not do this. Once a guy ran after me just to stop me, I knew him, and once he reached me he first apologized that he had shouted/spoken me on the street because it is not nice.
Normally I wouldn't mind this but I don't want OTHERS to follow this example since I know I have eyes on me everywhere.
Posts: 758 | From: Finland | Registered: Jun 2006
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quote:Originally posted by cloudberry: ^Yes certain words are and how they act during it. I don't mind the usuals and wouldn't call it harassment, when there is nothing that could offend. But it is not right either that someone approaches a woman on a street just for fun, even to say hello where are you from. They wouldn't do that to an Egyptian, esp in places like Luxor. I haven't seen any Egyptian asking an Egyptian lady 'hey what's your name, where do you live'. Maybe not harassment but inappropriate, yes. And they know it.
I have women come up to me and ask me where Ia m from and strike up a polite conversation... it seems when a women does it is viewed she is practising her english but when a man does it he is harrassing you...
I personally don't mind being spoken to but as soon as the conversation shifts from polite and friendly to creepy I just say I have to go now.
It must depend where you are. Cairo - would't worry so much but Luxor - if the other men around you see (it's a small town after all, everyone knows your business) that you allow strange men to approach you they will do the same. That's why it is not good to talk there to anyone on the street.
Actually it is not right even to stop someone else's wife on the street if she is alone and I see decent men do not do this. Once a guy ran after me just to stop me, I knew him, and once he reached me he first apologized that he had shouted/spoken me on the street because it is not nice.
Normally I wouldn't mind this but I don't want OTHERS to follow this example since I know I have eyes on me everywhere.
I know most the people in my area... many I met when I was a not so naive 17 year old i know I am being looked out for.
I live amongst friends and good neighbours.
I had some Russian idiot walking with me talking one night and he tried to kiss me in the street and I politely said no thanks. He tried again and I said NO very firmly and he went to grab me, so I grabbed his wrist and announced in Arabic I have a problem and my bowaab along with some of his friends came over and I left them to it. That is unacceptable and was dealt with.
I was waiting for a taxi on saleh salem earlier and three blokes hollered from a car the usual crap, welcome eshta, mozza blah blah... I think I have resigned myself to the fact that all I can do is accept this is how it will be and crack on. I am not offended (or flattered) and to me it is part of life here.
If it stopped I would probably worry about it... like if the traffic went quiet, sure it would be welcomed but I am just used to it.
Posts: 11097 | From: Cairo | Registered: May 2008
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Is Harassment Hilarious? Nile Comedy TV Thinks so
There’s a new government-sponsored comedy channel in Egypt, Nile Comedy TV, which has created a humorous series of “non-commercial breaks.” One memorable example that made me laugh went like this:
Buy the Chinese sheep! It weighs 12 kg when alive, and 55 kg after being slaughtered. It’s fed on a diet of chips, so you can control the taste of the sheep by controlling the types of chips it eats. It comes in three colors: green, red and blue! It has two hearts, two livers, two stomachs and it has radio and bluetooth! It does not make noise and doesn’t move a lot, so it’s easy to slaughter. Surprise: You can slaughter it twice! And if you call now, you’ll get a free set of knives too! One shipping price, one set price. From Fahlway, where our motto is: ‘trick the customer.’
You get the idea.
But recently, they’ve come up with two commercials that alternatively make me a) roll my eyes b) very sad.
The guy sitting on the couch is asked a series of questions:
“Do you have a problem, and can’t harass girls on the street? Do you have the desire to get to know girls and not one of them gives you the time of day? You never know what to say or how? You have no experience? You’re afraid of a sexual harassment suit?”
The guy replies in the affirmative to all the questions. Not to worry, the voice tells us, a device now exists that is designed to help Egyptian men harass women on the street!
This amazing device (which you wear on a chain around your neck) has a camera that captures a picture of the girl you’re eyeballing on the street. It then analyzes her a) walk b) clothes and c) voice and gives you the correct harassment. So the examples we see are of the guy:
• Being explicit to the unveiled girl when the device tells him, “Don’t mind anything, you can be as explicit as you like.” • Focusing on a veiled girl’s “respectability and beauty” when the device instructs him to harass her “gently and politely” (is there something wrong here, or is it just me?) • Running away from the fat woman when the device tells him to. • The last shot of the ad is of the guy surrounded by half a dozen unveiled women.
I’m so sick and tired of harassment. All Egyptian women are. As we’ve all mentioned more than once, a recent study by the Egyptian Center for Women’s Rights (ECWR) told us that in a country where over 80% of the women are veiled, 83% of women are harassed. 62% of Egyptian men surveyed admitted to harassment. 60% of the respondents (male and female) said that scantily clad women are more likely to be harassed though in reality 72% of the women who said they’d been harassed were veiled.
It’s so rampant we cease to think of it as a crime. It’s not even called harassment, “taharoush”, but the very light-hearted term “mu’aksa,” teasing. It’s verbal and physical. Only 2% of women who are harassed report it. 53% of Egyptian men blame women for bringing it upon themselves. Egyptian law doesn’t even mention harassment.
So let’s make it worse by creating a “comedic” ad that makes light of sexual harassment?! I’m not sure which would be worse: if this was an actual product or the fact that it’s supposed to be funny. The issue is already considered trivial compared to other problems Egypt is suffering from–how is this ad supposed to be funny?
And not only are we saying that harassment is normal, let’s make it worse: What message is the ad sending about veiled/ unveiled girls? That unveiled girls are okay to harass? That they will somehow welcome your disgusting comments?!
And wait, that’s not all. Here’s the second ad, this time for a Sexual Harassment Stoppe. Girls, rejoice!
The unveiled girl sitting on the couch is asked:
Do you feel afraid when you go out into the streets? Do you face problems when you go out? Do you get annoyed from the “teasing” you hear?
When the questions are asked, although they are serious, the music is anything but, therefore not giving weight to the travesty of the situation: what does it say about a civilized society in this day and age where women are afraid to walk in the streets?! We see a cartoon of a busty, unveiled blonde woman, and the girl being asked the questions/walking in the streets being harassed is unveiled, subtly implying that it’s only the unveiled girls who dress provocatively who get harassed.
So the device will do three things: a) give the guy a headache b) give the guy an electric shock c) stop you from hearing what he’s saying.
And here’s the kicker: If you want to, you can turn off the machine so you can hear the “teasing.” Because of course, there are girls who like it, don’t you know? As if we need anything to further support the absurd belief that women “like it” when you harass them.
The device is also an insect repellent. And if you buy it, you get a free sexy dress.
posted
i think egyptian men would hate me cas if i was being sexually harassed i would throw it right back at them..and shame their asses..if a man grabbed me well all is fair i would grab him back. if he asked me to suck somethin i would say lick somethin first.. like i always say anything a man can do a woman can do better.. its funny cas when i first met walid he was like an angel and didnt know crap about sex. now he is a huge perv..he always says if yr mean i will tell mom that u make me nasty nasty man...men are so funny.
-------------------- your ass is so tight when you fart only a dog can hear it.when you queef only a cat can hear that one. Posts: 9776 | From: You like If only mosquitoes sucked fat instead of blood. | Registered: Jul 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Clear and QSY: Phone stalkers:
I usually find it amusing if a complete stranger calls you and tries to chat you up, but then this has rarely happened to me.
But I know that it's a growing problem, and I can imagine it can get really worrying.
I NEVER (not even in the UK) answer a call from a number I do not recognise.
If the call here is persistent I text 'who is this' in arabic... No response they go down in my phone as don't 'don't answer'
Only twice have I ever had persistent callers here and I have not answered, after a while they get bored.
My phone is on silent a lot so I miss most calls anyway... if the name comes up I can call them back... so with me these pathetic boys are wasting their energy
I feel really bad for girls who experience this though, harrassment on the street is one thing but constantly with you must be draining.
Posts: 11097 | From: Cairo | Registered: May 2008
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is your number still the same Cheeky ?
Posts: 3945 | From: ' Res Contr ' Amor non es guirens, lai on sos poders s'atura | Registered: Dec 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Kalila : ): is your number still the same Cheeky ?
Yes, but I don't have yours, that was in my stolen phone. Email me yours again so I can add you
One reason I never used to answer calls in the UK was because of phone companies or banks mithering me with questionaires. I even stopped answering the house phone unless a call was expected!!!
Posts: 11097 | From: Cairo | Registered: May 2008
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Sexual harassment campaign for Egypt’s streets
by Joseph Mayton 20 October 2009
CAIRO: When women walk the streets of Cairo, the near constant verbal and physical attacks take its toll. For Mona Hanafi el-Siofi it was simply too much, so she gathered some friends and decided they needed to take some action. She decided that one way of bringing attention to this growing problem in the country was to hand out pamphlets to perpetrators that listed a series of statements and questions aimed at the attacker’s honor.
“Often I, or other friends, feel helpless, or just too fed up already, or you don’t remember a good response in Arabic at that moment,” the German-Egyptian PhD student told Bikya Masr as to the origins of the campaign idea.
The pamphlet idea is still in the initial stages, and Siofi is unsure how successful it will be, but the optimism surrounding the idea remains strong.
“The idea was to create a paper we can hand over to those men who annoy us,” read an email titled “Self-defense campaign against (Sexual) harassment” launching the new project. They hope the paper will illuminate to harassers the detrimental effect they are having on society and help to empower women to defend themselves.
The paper reads, in Arabic: “I am not a dog in the street! Oh, young man, I could be your sister! Oh, older man, I could be your daughter! Why are you doing this to me? Why you don’t respect me? So please, respect me and respect yourself!
Sexual harassment is an issue Egypt has been struggling with for a number of years. Campaigns and dialogue have done little to stem the rising number of assaults and reports of widespread harassment. In October 2006, during the Eid holiday that follows the Holy Month of Ramadan, mobs of young men attacked female bystanders, ripping at and groping them near a local cinema in downtown Cairo. Nobody believed the women’s stories until evidence appeared on blogs that included video and pictures of the event.
According to the Egyptian Center for Women’s Rights (ECWR) some 70 percent of all women living in Egypt have experienced harassment. Almost all foreigners have been the victim of abuses, a 2008 report revealed.
“The origin of creating this paper is a somehow funny story,” Siofi admits. “Once I walked in downtown [Cairo], passing by a parked car, two young men sitting in it. One of them said something to me, I don’t remember what it was, but I became really angry because it was for the umpteenth time this day. However, I just had a screwed up bus ticket in my hand, stepped back and threw it into the car, without saying anything else … you should have seen their faces!”
Harassment has become so prevelant that many women in the country simply prefer to stay home than risk heading out for a simple walk. The campaign hopes to give the power back to the women by creating a sense of shame toward perpetrators.
One Egyptian journalist said that while the idea is good, “why is it that women are forced to use this sort of language that makes them seem weak? People need to step in and create a better society without women being put on the defensive.”
It remains an uphill battle, leading activists such as ECWR chief Nehad Abu Komsan says, especially with first lady Suzanne Mubarak last year going on Al-Arabiya television network saying Egyptian men are “respectful” of women in the country.
“Egyptian men always respect Egyptian women,” the first lady said in the interview after the presenter showed her a number of recent assault claims made by women. “This gives the impression that the streets in Egypt are not safe. That is not true . . . the media have exaggerated,” Mubarak continued. “Maybe one, two or even 10 incidents occurred. Egypt is home to 80 million people. We can’t talk of a phenomenon. Maybe a few scatterbrained youths are behind this crime.”
The first lady suggested that some of the negative media could have been motivated by Islamist militant factions. “And maybe some people wanted to make it seem as though the streets of Egypt are not safe so girls and women stay at home. This could be their agenda,” she said in a reference to Islamist militants.
Her claim that militants are hijacking harassment for political reasons has been discounted by leading activists, including Abu Komsan.
“Her claims really show that some people do not want to really talk about this issue,” Abu Komsan said.
“What people say about Islamic militants taking this issue is ridiculous because they have been against us for a long time. We must educate everyone on this real issue that is affecting so many women here.”
for more information about the campaign and to get in touch with Siofi, please email editors@bikyamasr.com
quote:Originally posted by Clear and QSY: Phone stalkers:
I usually find it amusing if a complete stranger calls you and tries to chat you up, but then this has rarely happened to me.
But I know that it's a growing problem, and I can imagine it can get really worrying.
Happened to me when I first got here. Some guy misdialed and when he realized I was a foreign woman he gave my number out to all his friends. I was pissd mostly because I was trying to take a nap and the phone kept ringing. "Hi I want to be your friend...I speak French (well flippin great for you I don't)...I want to learn English (so go take a damn class)..."
I was not very nice to these guys. One in particular kept calling back. My husband was out of town but when he got back I had him call the number. He got the guy to confess that his friend had given my number to him because I was a foreign female. We didn't threaten him or anything, but my husband said he was scared. He probably did not do that again for a while.
I went out that night and got a new SIM card.
Posts: 1626 | From: whatever, wherever | Registered: Jul 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Clear and QSY: Happened to me when I first got here. Some guy misdialed and when he realized I was a foreign woman he gave my number out to all his friends. I was pissd mostly because I was trying to take a nap and the phone kept ringing. "Hi I want to be your friend...I speak French (well flippin great for you I don't)...I want to learn English (so go take a damn class)..."
I was not very nice to these guys. One in particular kept calling back. My husband was out of town but when he got back I had him call the number. He got the guy to confess that his friend had given my number to him because I was a foreign female. We didn't threaten him or anything, but my husband said he was scared. He probably did not do that again for a while.
quote:Originally posted by Clear and QSY: Happened to me when I first got here. Some guy misdialed and when he realized I was a foreign woman he gave my number out to all his friends. I was pissd mostly because I was trying to take a nap and the phone kept ringing. "Hi I want to be your friend...I speak French (well flippin great for you I don't)...I want to learn English (so go take a damn class)..."
I was not very nice to these guys. One in particular kept calling back. My husband was out of town but when he got back I had him call the number. He got the guy to confess that his friend had given my number to him because I was a foreign female. We didn't threaten him or anything, but my husband said he was scared. He probably did not do that again for a while.
Yeah, I saw that link. I actually posted it in here. I was going to do it as a topic, but I figured you would.
Hasn't happened to me again. There are so many phone numbers in Egypt to dial and the odds of my number getting picked again is low. I hope Posts: 1626 | From: whatever, wherever | Registered: Jul 2008
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Well when I moved to Egypt there were no mobile phones around, when I left Egyptians just slowly started to have them.
I did get harassed by male callers at various homes (I switched apartments quite often in Cairo) and some jack@ss even used to ring my phone number at work. Funnily the former girl who had the job warned me about this guy before she left so when his first call came ("Moan, moan, moan....") I wasn't really shocked okay I admit it still freaked me out a little. Someone recommended I should use a whistle next time he calls but I never did.
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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Egypt's harassment diseaseFrom street assaults to abusive phone calls, women in Egypt are plagued by sexual harassment. It's time to act against it Comments (58)
Nesrine Malik guardian.co.uk, Friday 23 October 2009 14.00 BST
When I was a student at university in Cairo, the college campus was considered a safe haven, a refuge from the lewd and abusive harassment that female students suffered on their way to class. American year-abroad students in particular regularly stumbled on to campus in tears of rage, fuming at the liberties men took on the streets of Cairo.
Last week's report on the rise of phone harassment in Egypt illustrated an extension of this culture. Unlike Saudi Arabia, where consensual phone relationships between men and women are struck up to circumvent the gender segregation in the country, in Egypt these calls are one-sided and predatory – an outlet for lewd and violating language. We're not talking good-natured flattery. References to body parts and sexual acts are common.
Apparently, however, this is how males act in a sexually repressed society. This is an unsatisfactory and patronising explanation. It is also a cop-out, allowing offenders to claim some sort of victimhood and sympathy for their "repressed" state. Egypt is hardly the most sexually repressed country in the Arab world; indeed, it is one of the most liberal in terms of pop culture and social freedoms. The gender segregation and extreme repression in some Gulf countries has not spawned this visceral and endemic degradation of women.
Cairo has a vibrant street culture and most harassment occurs in the street, where groups of men manifest their male machismo by dehumanising women. There is something rather Dickensian about Cairo, with its vast class discrepancies, overpopulation and crushing poverty. In addition, there is a gap between portrayals of women and lifestyle in the media and the reality experienced by millions of Egyptians. There is a surfeit of hyper-sexualised images of belly dancers, actresses and singers, movies with sexual content and music videos that are not in line with the fundamentally traditional nature of the country. This popularises a view, created and packaged by a mass media industry, of women as sexual objects, the root of all sin and the downfall of men.
In an exploitive and skewed social structure, men and women find it hard to achieve domestic security due to the prohibitive costs of marriage and accommodation. It is not that the Egyptian man is starved of sex, it is the lack of a viable domestic alternative when he is too old to be loitering in his parents' house. Living on your own in Egypt is frowned upon and so men are left stranded between the marital and parental homes. The absence of a "scene" for singles of both sexes to mix has left groups of feral males impotently lusting after the female population, safe in their numbers and anonymity. Women on the end of phone lines are even more faceless, which allows men to project their frustration and disempowerment with even less risk of exposure.
Religious efforts to address the issue have also been complicit in absolving men of their crimes, objectifying women and doing more harm than good with campaigns that blame women for the phenomenon. The "Cover Your Lollipop" campaign likens women to candy, there for the consumption and enjoyment of men. The campaign's poster portrays two lollipops, one covered with a wrapper, symbolising the hijab, and the other uncovered, with flies hovering over its exposed sweetness. Under the images, text outlines the divine wisdom of the veil, betraying a disturbing mentality that "views women as objects of pleasure and entertainment".
Even Suzanne Mubarak, the first lady of Egypt, maintains this line of denial, stating that Egyptian men fundamentally respect women and that harassment incidents may have been blown out of proportion by Islamic elements furthering their own agenda. This is where the issue truly becomes cancerous. When the state is more concerned with face-saving and point-scoring, the apathy filters down through all areas of law enforcement. Harsher penalties are hardly going to be dispensed when there is a denial that the problem exists in the first place. There have been some efforts to criminalise harassment and an Egyptian female student has launched an awareness-raising pamphlet distribution programme, but with little official support.
Perhaps the answer is to first dispense with all the excuses and justifications. Men take such liberties when conditions encourage them and the authorities are so indifferent that harassment becomes part of everyday life. However, as with most oppressive governments in the Arab world with weak civil societies, in Egypt any criticism of the status quo is seen as striking at the heart of the establishment. The best approach is to tackle the problem at its roots – on the streets, in the media and in people's homes.
I had an incident this week where I was in a position I had to answer an unknown number... it was annoyingly a random wrong number and I had a guy demanding me to tell him where I was etc... adamant I knew him. He kept calling after that and I just answered and put the phone on the table... he can pay for silence for all I care.
Anyway, after going to the bar and telling the lads they said next time he calls to pass the phone around... he finally stopped when an Egyptian woman I only met that night called him every name under the sun and threatened him with the police.... since then, silence
If he calls again I will just keep giving it different people till he realises his persistence is wasted on me as I can out play a player Posts: 11097 | From: Cairo | Registered: May 2008
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quote:Originally posted by *Dalia*: Is Harassment Hilarious? Nile Comedy TV Thinks so
There’s a new government-sponsored comedy channel in Egypt, Nile Comedy TV, which has created a humorous series of “non-commercial breaks.” One memorable example that made me laugh went like this:
Buy the Chinese sheep! It weighs 12 kg when alive, and 55 kg after being slaughtered. It’s fed on a diet of chips, so you can control the taste of the sheep by controlling the types of chips it eats. It comes in three colors: green, red and blue! It has two hearts, two livers, two stomachs and it has radio and bluetooth! It does not make noise and doesn’t move a lot, so it’s easy to slaughter. Surprise: You can slaughter it twice! And if you call now, you’ll get a free set of knives too! One shipping price, one set price. From Fahlway, where our motto is: ‘trick the customer.’
You get the idea.
But recently, they’ve come up with two commercials that alternatively make me a) roll my eyes b) very sad.
The guy sitting on the couch is asked a series of questions:
“Do you have a problem, and can’t harass girls on the street? Do you have the desire to get to know girls and not one of them gives you the time of day? You never know what to say or how? You have no experience? You’re afraid of a sexual harassment suit?”
The guy replies in the affirmative to all the questions. Not to worry, the voice tells us, a device now exists that is designed to help Egyptian men harass women on the street!
This amazing device (which you wear on a chain around your neck) has a camera that captures a picture of the girl you’re eyeballing on the street. It then analyzes her a) walk b) clothes and c) voice and gives you the correct harassment. So the examples we see are of the guy:
• Being explicit to the unveiled girl when the device tells him, “Don’t mind anything, you can be as explicit as you like.” • Focusing on a veiled girl’s “respectability and beauty” when the device instructs him to harass her “gently and politely” (is there something wrong here, or is it just me?) • Running away from the fat woman when the device tells him to. • The last shot of the ad is of the guy surrounded by half a dozen unveiled women.
I’m so sick and tired of harassment. All Egyptian women are. As we’ve all mentioned more than once, a recent study by the Egyptian Center for Women’s Rights (ECWR) told us that in a country where over 80% of the women are veiled, 83% of women are harassed. 62% of Egyptian men surveyed admitted to harassment. 60% of the respondents (male and female) said that scantily clad women are more likely to be harassed though in reality 72% of the women who said they’d been harassed were veiled.
It’s so rampant we cease to think of it as a crime. It’s not even called harassment, “taharoush”, but the very light-hearted term “mu’aksa,” teasing. It’s verbal and physical. Only 2% of women who are harassed report it. 53% of Egyptian men blame women for bringing it upon themselves. Egyptian law doesn’t even mention harassment.
So let’s make it worse by creating a “comedic” ad that makes light of sexual harassment?! I’m not sure which would be worse: if this was an actual product or the fact that it’s supposed to be funny. The issue is already considered trivial compared to other problems Egypt is suffering from–how is this ad supposed to be funny?
And not only are we saying that harassment is normal, let’s make it worse: What message is the ad sending about veiled/ unveiled girls? That unveiled girls are okay to harass? That they will somehow welcome your disgusting comments?!
And wait, that’s not all. Here’s the second ad, this time for a Sexual Harassment Stoppe. Girls, rejoice!
The unveiled girl sitting on the couch is asked:
Do you feel afraid when you go out into the streets? Do you face problems when you go out? Do you get annoyed from the “teasing” you hear?
When the questions are asked, although they are serious, the music is anything but, therefore not giving weight to the travesty of the situation: what does it say about a civilized society in this day and age where women are afraid to walk in the streets?! We see a cartoon of a busty, unveiled blonde woman, and the girl being asked the questions/walking in the streets being harassed is unveiled, subtly implying that it’s only the unveiled girls who dress provocatively who get harassed.
So the device will do three things: a) give the guy a headache b) give the guy an electric shock c) stop you from hearing what he’s saying.
And here’s the kicker: If you want to, you can turn off the machine so you can hear the “teasing.” Because of course, there are girls who like it, don’t you know? As if we need anything to further support the absurd belief that women “like it” when you harass them.
The device is also an insect repellent. And if you buy it, you get a free sexy dress.
Teasing...I mentioned a lot of 'teasing'; to women, to children, to the poor, in fact anyone who is kind of powerless. Don't think that's Egyptian, but just a nasty habit from people with a power-issue, it's an unequal batle. There is a 'winner' and a 'loser' and the one who wins wants to show his/her dominance,control, power.
Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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Believe me, after certain age you will be nostalgic about any, even a slight trace, of sexual harassment. Posts: 132 | From: Alex | Registered: Oct 2009
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Believe me, you have not understood a thing.
Harassment is not flattering, not in the least, as you obviously assume. It's the opposite -- humiliating and disgusting. No woman with her brain intact will ever feel "nostalgic" when thinking about it.
Posts: 2803 | Registered: Feb 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Nasto: Girls, just do not stone me, ok?
Believe me, after certain age you will be nostalgic about any, even a slight trace, of sexual harassment.
That really is too stupid of a reply to respond to. Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
Yesterday in Samir and Ali I was bothered by some african guys... one was too persistent wanting my photo, FB, yahoo, msn.. he wanted to carry my shopping, be my friend follow me home. so I left S&A, and walked into Spinneys to get away from him... he follows me asking me my problem so I turn around and announced in my loudest of voices... you are the problem now back off.. GO AWAY and called him a pervert. he scarpered
How to deal with perverts and harrassment... shout att hem in public. This is the new way a few of us are trying and they soon back the hell off.
Making a scene makes you realise how many decent folk there are who jump in to help Posts: 11097 | From: Cairo | Registered: May 2008
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posted
Surely the Dalia’ outburst speaks volumes about her brains.
I was referring not to harassment in the work place. This is really serious issue that is based on the ability of a man to control female subordinates and must be dealt without any hesitation. I am about incidents on the streets – this is what all the stories posted to this thread are about. There are many ways to avoid being harassed on the streets. Learn them. If you cannot avoid than bust them as CF said.
Posts: 132 | From: Alex | Registered: Oct 2009
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When I was sexually harrassed in the UK I scared him half to death when I shouted at him!!!
I refuse to walk with my head hanging low like someone suggested we westerners should do to avoid eye contact.. I damn refuse to. If a dude so much as utters anything to me I speak up now and make that pervert feel 3 inches tall.
Confidence is the key, walk with a mission, look em in the eye and speak in Arabic to them... I walk through the middle of groups of lads who are clearly trying to intimidate me... it baffles them!
So far my harrassment in Egypt has consisted of mostly verbal, no one has EVER touched me here. So I must be doing something right
Posts: 11097 | From: Cairo | Registered: May 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Cheekyferret: How to deal with perverts and harrassment... shout att hem in public. This is the new way a few of us are trying and they soon back the hell off.
Making a scene makes you realise how many decent folk there are who jump in to help
It's not a new way, I did that years ago. I stopped doing it after a couple of years because it didn't help much. And I found it frustrating that nobody every jumped in to help, instead people looked at me as if I was insane.
quote:Originally posted by Cheekyferret: Confidence is the key, walk with a mission, look em in the eye and speak in Arabic to them... I walk through the middle of groups of lads who are clearly trying to intimidate me... it baffles them!
Same here. But confidence only goes so far, there will always be guys who harass you no matter how confident, tall etc. you look. I get harassed much less than I did during my first year here when I was very insecure and intimidated, but it will never cease completely.
quote:Originally posted by Nasto: Surely the Dalia’ outburst speaks volumes about her brains.
I wasn't being aware of any outburts, but I'm curious to know what it says about my brain.
quote:Originally posted by Nasto: There are many ways to avoid being harassed on the streets. Learn them.
Do tell us about those ways. I'm sure millions of women in Cairo would be very grateful for the advice.
Btw., I find it sad that after pages and pages of this thread some people are still suggesting that somehow it must be womens' own fault if they get harassed. The wrong clothes, wrong attitude, wrong posture etc. pp. I thought the countless stories, personal accounts and studies should have made it clear that the problem exists no matter which techniques women are using to avoid it.
Posts: 2803 | Registered: Feb 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Cheekyferret: Yesterday in Samir and Ali I was bothered by some african guys... one was too persistent wanting my photo, FB, yahoo, msn.. he wanted to carry my shopping, be my friend follow me home. so I left S&A, and walked into Spinneys to get away from him... he follows me asking me my problem so I turn around and announced in my loudest of voices... you are the problem now back off.. GO AWAY and called him a pervert. he scarpered
How to deal with perverts and harrassment... shout att hem in public. This is the new way a few of us are trying and they soon back the hell off.
Making a scene makes you realise how many decent folk there are who jump in to help
I made a similar loud scene like that on one of my Cairo visits while walking around Tahrir Sq. Seems that is a heavy area for harrasment since on that same place i had my butt slapped by another youngster,that time he ran off away . The one i made a loud scene to,i was crossing the street there in the middle of the afternoon.I was modestly dressed wearing a long,down to my knees,loose,long sleeved tunic over my jeans.I was wearing dark sunglasses as i usually do on daytime anywhere,when i noticed this neat,university looking guy following me around,including each store or place i entered into.I take a smaller nearby street to walk into,a very busy pedestrian street.I kinda look back and the guy continues walking right behind me when i get really annoyed by his followind me around.I suddenly stop,look back at him and in my loudest voice say:HEYYYYY,ARE YOU FOLLOWING MEEEEEE? Suddenly ALL the eyes were on him and he simply detours to another way while with a tiny voices whispers....nooo! Obviously the guy was embarrased by my loud yelling and all other locals staring hardly at him.
posted
Dalia... this is new tactic for us... most of us usually ignore it as it is just words but of late we are having fun turning the tables. It all started at the Hash Ball when I flipped at this guy speaking porn to me thinking I was stoopid Hell hath no fury like a feisty ferret.
In 17 years here I have never been physically sexually harrassed and I think that is because I intimidate them more than they intimidate me. Hell, I have had folk off here tell me I am intimidating when I am not even trying
I know it works Sash... I have to walk through the University campus twice a week and I speak up if they utter anything... and I do walk head held high... I am proud to be me. Posts: 11097 | From: Cairo | Registered: May 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Sashyra8: I made a similar loud scene like that on one of my Cairo visits while walking around Tahrir Sq. Seems that is a heavy area for harrasment
I often hear this, but interestingly I don't get harassed much there. And I do a lot of walking downtown.
My impression is that the guys harassing women downtown are more on the lookout for tourists and tend to leave you alone if they sense you live there.
quote:Originally posted by Cheekyferret: In 17 years here I have never been physically sexually harrassed and I think that is because I intimidate them more than they intimidate me.
Yeah, but harassment does not only mean being groped.
I haven't been physically harassed often. Does that mean I intimidate guys? Hm ... I don't necessarily think so.
quote:Originally posted by Cheekyferret: Dalia... this is new tactic for us... most of us usually ignore it as it is just words but of late we are having fun turning the tables.
Well, when I first moved to Cairo I often heard the advice to ignore it, but I don't believe in that.
Regarding turning the tables ... I sometimes used to throw really bad insults at those guys because I loved how it upset them. I am well aware that as a woman you shouldn't use dirty language etc. and you have to be careful not to be attacked, but I liked the fact that it made them angry. So instead of me being angry and feeling helpless, I left them being pissed off and walked on grinning.
Posts: 2803 | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
In Tahir Sq I get bothered a lot... no matter how long I live here I will always stand out as I am fair haired and blue eyed... I just tell em to shut up.
The places I get least harrassed are the back streets, the folk there are more interested in my money lol..
I tolerate so much, but on relentless days I flip. Yesterday this guy was just beginning to become white noise and would not back off. I saw blue mist coming down and just growled at him... maybe my reaction will stop him from bothering someone else!!!!!!!!
Posts: 11097 | From: Cairo | Registered: May 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Cheekyferret: In Tahir Sq I get bothered a lot... no matter how long I live here I will always stand out as I am fair haired and blue eyed... I just tell em to shut up.
The places I get least harrassed are the back streets, the folk there are more interested in my money lol..
I tolerate so much, but on relentless days I flip. Yesterday this guy was just beginning to become white noise and would not back off. I saw blue mist coming down and just growled at him... maybe my reaction will stop him from bothering someone else!!!!!!!!
Yes,in fact my 2 harrasments in Egypt ever both took part in Tahrir.And im wayyyy more Egyptian looking than you both. Posts: 3833 | From: here,there,everywhere | Registered: Nov 2007
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They are ruining the image of Egypt.
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When I was visibly pregnant looking I already lived in Maadi and perhaps people have more respect there towards others and are anyway used to see foreigners.
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