posted
I know this forum zetaboards is a racist forum,but here some interesting talk about arabs and arabians.
stonesheep -
quote:
You can't really say Yemenis are "authentic Arabs" since they're descended largely from the Himyaris, Sabeans, Mineans, Hadhramites, etc... who were, technically, not considered Arabs, but were being gradually Arabized from the 1st century AD onwards. In fact these South Arabian people drew distinctions between themselves and the Arab tribes living to their north.
Most "authentic" Arabs are probably bedouins of central/north Arabian deserts and Jordanian and Syrian deserts.
Makaha -
quote:
I wrote that peninsular arabs are the authentic arabs. Which of course includes Yemenis. But since you bring it up, it seems that arab scholars consider the Yemenis to be the "pure" arabs:
The general consensus among 14th century Arabic genealogists is that Arabs are of three kinds: Perishing Arabs (Arabic: العرب البائدة): These are the ancients of whose history little is known.
Pure Arabs (Arabic: العرب العاربة): They are from Yemen, originated from the progeny of Ya‘rub bin Yashjub bin Qahtan so were also called Qahtanian Arabs.
Arabized Arabs (Arabic: العرب المستعربة): They originated from the progeny of Ishmael the first born son of the patriarch Abraham and the Jurhum tribe, also called ‘Adnani Arabs. Prophet Muhammad is an 'Adnani Arab. [edit]
Bulletproofpride -
quote:
You are wrong
How can people say that Arabs from the North ( Adnani Arabs ) are real and yemenese are not Arabs when in fact it was a tribe called jurhum that took care of Isma3eel and his mother in Makkah.
It was from this tribe that Isma3eel learned Arabic.
Yes Southerns didn't speak Arabic but the term Arabic is used in wrong way at the beginning.
Basically, any Semite that lived in Arabia was considered an Arab. The Semitic dialect of the Qur'an is just one of the many languages/dialects spoken in Arabian peninsula. You can't use this dialect as the center of Arabness.
In fact yemense call the peninsula " AL-jazeeratul 'arab."
The Southern distinguished themselves because they are Qathani instead of Adnani and had a civilization going on in the south that made them look superior.
stonesheep -
quote:
Those are just Biblical stories.
The "Qahtanite" Arabs are a mix of the Arab tribes of Central Arabia and the local Sabean or Himyarite Yemenites, who did not speak Arabic or consider themselves Arabs, until they were Arabized by the aforementioned Arab tribes in the centuries preceding Islam. By Muhammad's time Arabia had been fully "Arabized", as strange as that sounds.
The true ancient Arab homeland was the deserts of central/north Arabia and the Levant/Mesopotamia deserts.
Exactly, they did not speak Arabic thus they were not Arabs. From their records we also know they did not consider themselves Arabs originally. They were South Arabians geographically, but not Arabs.
By the time Islam came about they were already Arabized however. Edited by stonesheep, Sep 28 2012, 10:41 PM.
The Sabeans and Himyarites of Yemen were not Arabs
The Sabaeans & Himyarites were people of Yemen who were not Arabs and spoke their own language and used their own script (appears left).
quote: Despite the increasing presence of Arabs in the region, the remnants of the incense kingdoms in South were still not Arabs per se in that they still did not speak the Arabic language. But that was slowly changing. “Himyarite inscriptions were initially in the language of Qataban, a rival kingdom to Saba,” Robin points out. “In the first century AD, the writings turned to Sabaean, a very similar language. But in the early 4th century, the writings became very close to Arabic. This could be explained by an influx of Arab tribes into the region. Or it could simply indicate that spoken Himyari was already close to Arabic, and that the written word was converging with the spoken through the centuries.”
quote:
The genealogy fits well because the Book of Genesis adds that Sheba (Saba) was descended from Joktan (Qahtan). Though the people of Saba, and later Himyar, did not speak Arabic and thus could not be called Arabs, they slowly welcomed Arab tribes into their midst, eventually adopting their language. It is this amalgam of Semitic but non Arabic speaking Sabaeans with Arab immigrants from nearby central Arabia that came to be referred to later as Southern Arabs, or Qahtanis. The genealogists themselves recognized that South Arabians and the surrounding Arabs had distinct origins, Hoyland notes. But by the coming of Islam the two had integrated to the point that they were seen as constituting a single social and cultural entity.
posted
The original arabs were not black,but the original arabians were black.
Queen of Sheba
The Queen of Sheba (Hebrew: מלכת שבא, Malkaṯ Šəḇâ in Biblical Hebrew; Malkat Sh'va in Modern Hebrew; Ge'ez: ንግሥተ ሳባ, Nigiste Saba (Nəgəstä Saba); Arabic: ملكة سبأ, Malikat Sabaʾ) was a monarch of the ancient kingdom of Sheba and is referred to in Yemeni and Ethiopian history, the Bible, the Qur'an, Yoruba customary tradition, and Josephus. She is widely assumed to have been a queen regnant, but, since there is no historical proof of this, she may have been a queen consort. The location of her kingdom is believed to have been in Ethiopia and Yemen.
The Queen of Sheba as depicted ca. 1405 in a Prague manuscript
Recent scholarship
quote: A team of researchers funded by the American Foundation for the Study of Man (AFSM) and led by University of Calgary archaeology professor, Dr. Bill Glanzman, has been working to "unlock the secrets of a 3,000-year-old temple in Yemen." "We have an enormous job ahead of us," said Glanzman in 2007. "Our first task is to wrest the sanctuary from the desert sands, documenting our findings as we go. We're trying to determine how the temple was associated with the Queen of Sheba, how the sanctuary was used throughout history and how it came to play such an important role in Arab folklore."
Recent genome research by Luca Pagani of the Wellcome Trust Sanger Institute suggests that a non-African component of present-day Ethiopian people has much in common with people of the area around Syria, and that the introduction of that Syrian genetic component took place approximately 3,000 years ago. Newscientist.com reported "The meeting between the queen and Solomon remains a story, but the populations they came from did meet around that time, says Pagani" (the main researcher).
quote:The Arab scholars distinguish Arabians as descending from two different stocks: the "original" Arabs ('aribah), whose forefather was Qahtan -Yoqtan- and are the Yemenite group of tribes, and the "arabized" peoples of the north (musta'aribah), whose forefather is said to be Adnan, allegedly an Ishmaelite.
quote:Originally posted by Firewall: The original arabs were not black,but the original arabians were black.
Queen of Sheba
The Queen of Sheba (Hebrew: מלכת שבא, Malkaṯ Šəḇâ in Biblical Hebrew; Malkat Sh'va in Modern Hebrew; Ge'ez: ንግሥተ ሳባ, Nigiste Saba (Nəgəstä Saba); Arabic: ملكة سبأ, Malikat Sabaʾ) was a monarch of the ancient kingdom of Sheba and is referred to in Yemeni and Ethiopian history, the Bible, the Qur'an, Yoruba customary tradition, and Josephus. She is widely assumed to have been a queen regnant, but, since there is no historical proof of this, she may have been a queen consort. The location of her kingdom is believed to have been in Ethiopia and Yemen.
The Queen of Sheba as depicted ca. 1405 in a Prague manuscript
Recent scholarship
quote: A team of researchers funded by the American Foundation for the Study of Man (AFSM) and led by University of Calgary archaeology professor, Dr. Bill Glanzman, has been working to "unlock the secrets of a 3,000-year-old temple in Yemen." "We have an enormous job ahead of us," said Glanzman in 2007. "Our first task is to wrest the sanctuary from the desert sands, documenting our findings as we go. We're trying to determine how the temple was associated with the Queen of Sheba, how the sanctuary was used throughout history and how it came to play such an important role in Arab folklore."
Recent genome research by Luca Pagani of the Wellcome Trust Sanger Institute suggests that a non-African component of present-day Ethiopian people has much in common with people of the area around Syria, and that the introduction of that Syrian genetic component took place approximately 3,000 years ago. Newscientist.com reported "The meeting between the queen and Solomon remains a story, but the populations they came from did meet around that time, says Pagani" (the main researcher).
Name me an ARAB tribe NORTH OR SOUTH that was not originally called black my friend. Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Firewall: I know this forum zetaboards is a racist forum,but here some interesting talk about arabs and arabians.
stonesheep -
quote:
You can't really say Yemenis are "authentic Arabs" since they're descended largely from the Himyaris, Sabeans, Mineans, Hadhramites, etc... who were, technically, not considered Arabs, but were being gradually Arabized from the 1st century AD onwards. In fact these South Arabian people drew distinctions between themselves and the Arab tribes living to their north.
Most "authentic" Arabs are probably bedouins of central/north Arabian deserts and Jordanian and Syrian deserts.
Makaha -
quote:
I wrote that peninsular arabs are the authentic arabs. Which of course includes Yemenis. But since you bring it up, it seems that arab scholars consider the Yemenis to be the "pure" arabs:
The general consensus among 14th century Arabic genealogists is that Arabs are of three kinds: Perishing Arabs (Arabic: العرب البائدة): These are the ancients of whose history little is known.
Pure Arabs (Arabic: العرب العاربة): They are from Yemen, originated from the progeny of Ya‘rub bin Yashjub bin Qahtan so were also called Qahtanian Arabs.
Arabized Arabs (Arabic: العرب المستعربة): They originated from the progeny of Ishmael the first born son of the patriarch Abraham and the Jurhum tribe, also called ‘Adnani Arabs. Prophet Muhammad is an 'Adnani Arab. [edit]
Bulletproofpride -
quote:
You are wrong
How can people say that Arabs from the North ( Adnani Arabs ) are real and yemenese are not Arabs when in fact it was a tribe called jurhum that took care of Isma3eel and his mother in Makkah.
It was from this tribe that Isma3eel learned Arabic.
Yes Southerns didn't speak Arabic but the term Arabic is used in wrong way at the beginning.
Basically, any Semite that lived in Arabia was considered an Arab. The Semitic dialect of the Qur'an is just one of the many languages/dialects spoken in Arabian peninsula. You can't use this dialect as the center of Arabness.
In fact yemense call the peninsula " AL-jazeeratul 'arab."
The Southern distinguished themselves because they are Qathani instead of Adnani and had a civilization going on in the south that made them look superior.
stonesheep -
quote:
Those are just Biblical stories.
The "Qahtanite" Arabs are a mix of the Arab tribes of Central Arabia and the local Sabean or Himyarite Yemenites, who did not speak Arabic or consider themselves Arabs, until they were Arabized by the aforementioned Arab tribes in the centuries preceding Islam. By Muhammad's time Arabia had been fully "Arabized", as strange as that sounds.
The true ancient Arab homeland was the deserts of central/north Arabia and the Levant/Mesopotamia deserts.
Exactly, they did not speak Arabic thus they were not Arabs. From their records we also know they did not consider themselves Arabs originally. They were South Arabians geographically, but not Arabs.
By the time Islam came about they were already Arabized however. Edited by stonesheep, Sep 28 2012, 10:41 PM.
Why are you posting the opinions of neo-Neandernazis Firewall. They are not modern scholars. And that is NOT what scholars believe. The Arab dialect evolved out of early semitic dialects of the original Arabians.
AND THERE IS NO SCHOLAR ON THE PLANET EARTH THAT CLAIMS ARABIC COMES FROM SYRIANS.
Nazis are nuts not academics with little knowledge about who the ARABS were and are, THEY ARE NOT WORTH RESPONDING TO. Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
Some hispanics are black and sometimes i hear folks saying hispanics are really black or original black. It does not make it true.
When the info was written about blacks being apart of the arab groups that was years later.
These were arabized arabians so that is no surprise you will find some blacks among arabs later.
The blacks of northern arabia overtime were the first arabians to become arabized,but most of the arabs in ancient arabia were not black.
The original arabs and hebrews were not black.
Facts.
quote:
Recent genome research by Luca Pagani of the Wellcome Trust Sanger Institute suggests that a non-African component of present-day Ethiopian people has much in common with people of the area around Syria, and that the introduction of that Syrian genetic component took place approximately 3,000 years ago. Newscientist.com reported "The meeting between the queen and Solomon remains a story, but the populations they came from did meet around that time, says Pagani" (the main researcher).
posted
The "red" man of Syria according to the Medieval Syrians were not from the Arabs either north or south.
Black people of the Mediterranean, Arabia and Levant have been in contact with the non-black people of the Levant as traders mext door to the red man of the Levant for thousands of years so they sure should have absorbed them within that time frame. Much of the non-African component of the North Africa AS A WHOLE is from the Levant - no doubt. Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
The original arabs and hebrews were not black,they were white and invaders. The original arabians of arabia never called themselves arab,but later most did because they became arabized overtime. These are facts. Anyway i am done with this topic. Posts: 2560 | From: Somewhere | Registered: May 2012
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posted
You could have resolved this easily by telling me which "authentic" Syrian "Arab" tribe you think was not originally referred to as black. Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
Maybe you should ask the Neandernutzies which "authentic" Syrian "Arab" tribe you think was not originally referred to as black.
Arabs mixed with Syrian people and had them as slaves along with concubines from the Byzantines (Rum) and Turkish (Circassians) etc. Let's not forget what Rumi said in the 9th century.
"You insulted (the family of the Prophet) because of their blackness (bi-l-sawad), while there are still deep black, pure-blooded Arabs. However, you are white – the Romans (Byzantines) have embellished your faces with their color. The color of the family of Hashim was not a bodily defect. "
Stop insulting the true Arabs, Firewall. Their blackness is not a defect, not even the shining "TAR" blackness of Banu Hashim. Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
Thankfully Wesley can read Arabic very well.
Tabari wrote that, “Muhammad (Al-Nafs al-Zakiyya) was black, exceedingly black, jet black (adam shaded al-udma adlam) and huge. He was nicknamed “Tar Face” (al qari)…” (Williams, 2009, Anyone Who says the Prophet is Black Should be Killed p. 14, fn. 86). He also calls him charcoal faced (al-muhammam).
Muhammad al-Nafs al-Zakiyya
Thankfully some people can read Arabic very well.
Muhammad al-Nafs al-Zakiyya wrote to the Arabized Abbasids - "“You well know that no one has claim to this office who has a lineage, nobility and status like ours. By the nobility of our fathers, we are not the sons of the accursed, the outcasts, or freedmen…I am at the very center of the Banu Hashim’s lines. My paternity is purest among them, undiluted with non-Arab blood, and no concubines dispute over me” al Tabari 9th century From the Tarikh al rusul wa'l Muluk 9th century (Berkey, J. The Formation of Islam, 2003, p. 130; and Williams, W. Anybody who says the Prophet is Black Should be Killed, 2009)
Where are all these fair-skinned Syrian Arabs you are talking about Firewall.
"Mirror mirror on the wall, whose the fairest of them all?" Could it be the tar-skinned Hashimites. Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
"The first and second zones are excessively hot and black..." Ibn Khaldun 14th century. Modern SCHOLAR Uthmān Sayyid Ahmad Ismā’īl Bīlī summarized in more detail what Ibn Khaldun relates of the peoples and geography of the two zones of the blacks or Sudani.
"West Africa, according to these sub-zonal divisions, falls in the first section of the first zone. This section also includes the lands of the Veiled Berber. Nuba is in the middle of this first zone, in the fourth section of it and Abyssinia is in the fifth section, the same section in which the Indian ocean ends. Yemen is in the sixth section of the first zone. Ghana and Zaghawa as well as Qanuriyah (the lands of the Kanuri or Bornu) fall in the first and second sections of the second Zone and Hijaz and Nejd are in the sixth section of that zone. The Buja lands lie in the third and fourth sections of the second zone. Upper Egypt lies in the fourth section of the second zone and lower Egypt lies in the fifth section of it (Bili, Some Aspects of Islam in Africa, 2008, pp. 17-18).
THUS these are the blacks in their lands in the 15th ceentury Central Arabia, i.e. Nejd, Hijaz i.e. western Arabia - the Holy Land of the Arabs and land of Al-HARRA, southern Egypt, Kanuria (Bornu), Ghana, lands of the Nubians and the Beja, Abyssinia and southern Arabia i.e. the Yemen, AND the "VEILED BERBER" i.e. Tuareg.
BTW - I just found some blog that says Ibn Kathir wrote : “Among mankind there are Berbers, Ethiopians and (some) barbarians who are very black”. Tafsir al-Qur’an al-‘Azim, Dar al-Taybah, Beirut 1999 vol.6 p.544
The wonders never cease. Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
And, the tribe of Djurhum who by tradition taught Ishmael to speak Arabic was called Hadoram in the south where THEY CAME FROM. (See Al Iqd al Farid by Ibn Abd Rabbih, .)
"Qahtan begat Ya’rub, who is al-Mur’if” and “Saba’, al Muslif, al –Mirdad, Diqla, Takla, Abimal, Ubal, Uzal, HADURAM, WHO IS JURHUM, Ufir, Huwayla, Rawh, Iram and Nubat..." See The Unique Necklace, 2012, 272.
"Yoktan was the father of Almodad, Shelef, Chatzarmaveth, Yerach (Yarab), HADORAM, Uzal, Diklah, Obhal, Abhimael, She'bha, Ophir, Havilah, and Jobab. All these were the sons of Yoktan. Their settlements extended from Meshah (Mecca) toward Sepher (Zafar), the mountain of the east." THE BOOK OF GENESIS 10:26-30 OF THE HEBREW BIBLE CASE CLOSED, GET IT!
"Hadoram" is the name of the people named after a Sabaean tribe mentioned in inscriptions called Hadrami.
Today in Africa where they also settled, their descendants are called Hadharme or Hadorab. I explain all of this in my blog, btw. Thank God for google books. Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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The earliest civilization in Arabia is Mesopotamian from Iraq that extended onto the coast of Arabia
UBAID PERIOD (6500-3800 BC)
UBAID PERIOD
In the period 5500–4000 B.C., much of Mesopotamia shared a common culture, called Ubaid after the site where evidence for it was first found. Characterized by a distinctive type of pottery, this culture originated on the flat alluvial plains of southern Mesopotamia (ancient Iraq) around 6200 B.C There is much continuity between the Ubaid culture and the succeeding Uruk period, when many of the earlier traditions were elaborated, particularly in architecture. aid 3/4, sometimes called Ubaid I and Ubaid II[6] — In the period from 4500–4000 BC saw a period of intense and rapid urbanisation with the Ubaid culture spread into northern Mesopotamia replacing (after a hiatus) the Halaf culture. Ubaid artifacts spread also all along the Arabian littoral, showing the growth of a trading system that stretched from the Mediterranean coast through to Oman. The archaeological record shows that Arabian Bifacial/Ubaid period came to an abrupt end in eastern Arabia and the Oman peninsula at 3800 BC, just after the phase of lake lowering and onset of dune reactivation.At this time, increased aridity led to an end in semi-desert nomadism, and there is no evidence of human presence in the area for approximately 1000 years, the so-called "Dark Millennium"
____________________________________________
^^^^^ Note this is thousands of years before the Arabs. Due to increased dryness that came after this period there is no evidence of human presence for approximately 1000 years after the Ubaid period. The first written attestation of the ethnonym "Arab" occurs in an Assyrian inscription of 853 BCE, where Shalmaneser III lists a King Gindibu of mâtu arbâi (Arab land) as among the people he defeated at the Battle of Karkar a battel which took place in Northern Syria. In fact several different ethnonyms are found in Assyrian texts that are conventionally translated "Arab": Arabi, Arubu, Aribi and Urbi. Many of the Qedarite queens were also described as queens of the aribi. The Hebrew Bible occasionally refers to Aravi peoples (or variants thereof), translated as "Arab" or "Arabian." The scope of the term at that early stage is unclear, but it seems to have referred to various desert-dwelling Semitic tribes in the Syrian Desert and Arabia. Arab tribes came into conflict with the Assyrians during the reign of the Assyrian king Ashurbanipal, and he records military victories against the powerful Qedar tribe among others. The Qedarites (also Kedarites/Cedarenes, Cedar/Kedar/Qedar, and Kingdom of Qedar) were a largely nomadic, ancient Arab and Semitic tribal confederation. Described as "the most organized of the Northern Arabian tribes", at the peak of its power in the 6th century BC it controlled a large region between the Mesopotamia and Hejaz.
^^^ This is 6th century BC . This is over 1200 years before Muhammad
_________________________________________________
^^^^ Arabs are a culture and language a combination of all the above peoples. I'm not going to bother with trying to apply "black" and "white" to these people becuase it's unscientific and dumb
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche:
there is no indication that northern ARabia was occupied by anybody but these BLACKS until the 17th century when Syrian bedouin moved down from the north.
Yet she says this Yemeni man is not 'black"
Yet she is
It's ridiculous and it comes out of an American concept of race in which there are but three "races" and this guy is some sort of "white person" , foolishness.
Dana Marniche is a lacky for a couple of people people who have done skewed research, have specific political agendas and whose propaganda is that Islam is a black African religion.
That's all this discussion is about somebody trying to convince you 'Islam is a black African religion' - an actual quote from her source
I know what's going on behind the scences. and if you think it's afrocentrism it's not. In fact these people do not support indigenous African religion or afrocentricity.
Posts: 42921 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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The earliest civilization in Arabia is Mesopotamian from Iraq that extended onto the coast of Arabia
UBAID PERIOD
In the period 5500–4000 B.C., much of Mesopotamia shared a common culture, called Ubaid after the site where evidence for it was first found. Characterized by a distinctive type of pottery, this culture originated on the flat alluvial plains of southern Mesopotamia (ancient Iraq) around 6200 B.C There is much continuity between the Ubaid culture and the succeeding Uruk period, when many of the earlier traditions were elaborated, particularly in architecture. aid 3/4, sometimes called Ubaid I and Ubaid II[6] — In the period from 4500–4000 BC saw a period of intense and rapid urbanisation with the Ubaid culture spread into northern Mesopotamia replacing (after a hiatus) the Halaf culture. Ubaid artifacts spread also all along the Arabian littoral, showing the growth of a trading system that stretched from the Mediterranean coast through to Oman. The archaeological record shows that Arabian Bifacial/Ubaid period came to an abrupt end in eastern Arabia and the Oman peninsula at 3800 BC, just after the phase of lake lowering and onset of dune reactivation.At this time, increased aridity led to an end in semi-desert nomadism, and there is no evidence of human presence in the area for approximately 1000 years, the so-called "Dark Millennium"
____________________________________________
^^^^^ Note this is thousands of years before the Arabs. Due to increased dryness that came after this period there is no evidence of human presence for approximately 1000 years after the Ubaid period. The first written attestation of the ethnonym "Arab" occurs in an Assyrian inscription of 853 BCE, where Shalmaneser III lists a King Gindibu of mâtu arbâi (Arab land) as among the people he defeated at the Battle of Karkar a battel which took place in Northern Syria. In fact several different ethnonyms are found in Assyrian texts that are conventionally translated "Arab": Arabi, Arubu, Aribi and Urbi. Many of the Qedarite queens were also described as queens of the aribi. The Hebrew Bible occasionally refers to Aravi peoples (or variants thereof), translated as "Arab" or "Arabian." The scope of the term at that early stage is unclear, but it seems to have referred to various desert-dwelling Semitic tribes in the Syrian Desert and Arabia. Arab tribes came into conflict with the Assyrians during the reign of the Assyrian king Ashurbanipal, and he records military victories against the powerful Qedar tribe among others. The Qedarites (also Kedarites/Cedarenes, Cedar/Kedar/Qedar, and Kingdom of Qedar) were a largely nomadic, ancient Arab and Semitic tribal confederation. Described as "the most organized of the Northern Arabian tribes", at the peak of its power in the 6th century BC it controlled a large region between the Mesopotamia and Hejaz.
^^^ This is 6th century BC . This is over 1200 years before Muhammad
_________________________________________________
^^^^ Arabs are a culture and language a combination of all the above peoples. I'm not going to bother with trying to apply "black" and "white" to these people becuase it's unscientific and dumb
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche:
there is no indication that northern ARabia was occupied by anybody but these BLACKS until the 17th century when Syrian bedouin moved down from the north.
Yet she says this Yemeni man is not 'black"
Yet she is
It's ridiculous and it comes out of an American concept of race in which there are but three "races" and this guy is some sort of "white person" , foolishness.
Dana Marniche is a lacky for a couple of people people who have done skewed research, have specific political agendas and whose propaganda is that Islam is a black African religion.
That's all this discussion is about somebody trying to convince you 'Islam is a black African religion' - an actual quote from her source
I know what's going on behind the scences. and if you think it's afrocentrism it's not. In fact these people do not support indigenous African religion or afrocentricity.
lol! Do I hear some desperation in your post, who you trolling to Yer LYIN_SS.
You are pathetically jealous of black people of sub-Saharan origin. But if you choose to you can come back black in your next life.
Don't insult these black people either, these Arabs were the first Christians, and Jews, not just Muslims.
I can not help it if they still claim to come from Africa, Neanderdummy, and that all Arab tribes were called black. I am just explaining why they claimed to come from Africa, and where they went when they settled in the north of the peninsula and conquered Iraq and Syria, North Africa under Islam.
Your agenda is "negrophobia" we all know that by now.
BTW - A few facts for you. There is no such thing as race. I'm not Muslim and I'm most definitely not an Afrocentric. Plus, you got another thing backwards, most people quote from me as a source. Not the other way around. There are thousands of book references that I use though.
Thank God for google books.
And lastly don't get mad at me because you, National Geographic and Europeans created and fostered the concept of the Negro as a title for for sub-Saharan Africans - a people MOST DEFINITELY affiliated with early Arabs and neolithic Europeans and southwest Asians, including Arabians.
After all - for the ancients like Strabo and Diodorus, Arabia began in Africa east of the Nile.
And yes these BLACKS once stretched to Iraq and Iran and India where they were called other names - aside from Arab - in various waves over thousands of years.
“In the 5th century the Himyarites, in the south of Arabia, were styled by Syrian writers Cushaeans and Ethiopians” Encyclopedia Britannica 1911
Would you prefer me to use Ethiopic instead of black for the descendants of these people who still claim to have come in remote times from Africa. Fine! Cheers, envious Neandernut, and go get a tan. Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
Forgot to mention - I could care less what you want to apply to people of multifarious biological origins, Neandertroll. Like that half- Syrian man you keep posting, and me for that matter.
I also could care less about what Arabs are.
I only care about why the original Arabs and other people of BLACK AFRICAN AFFILIATION AND SPREAD ACROSS THE GLOBE WERE CALLED BLACK, if that is OK WITH YOU.
You really need to tone down that envy. Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
"Many of the Qedarite queens were also described as queens of the Aribi. "!!
Thank you- Yer Lyin_ss. My point exactly, and just what i was meaning to post about the matrifocal black people called KEDAR. Now your getting it!
A translation of the Targum to Song 1:5 the phrase reads “BLACK as the Kushites who live in the tents of Kedar.” From a source I use DAVID GOLDENBERG, THE CURSE OF HAM, 2005, p. 244.
And the fact that they had queens in the first place should have been a hint to your Neanderdumb _ _ _. Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Firewall: The original arabs were not black,but the original arabians were black.
Queen of Sheba
The Queen of Sheba (Hebrew: מלכת שבא, Malkaṯ Šəḇâ in Biblical Hebrew; Malkat Sh'va in Modern Hebrew; Ge'ez: ንግሥተ ሳባ, Nigiste Saba (Nəgəstä Saba); Arabic: ملكة سبأ, Malikat Sabaʾ) was a monarch of the ancient kingdom of Sheba and is referred to in Yemeni and Ethiopian history, the Bible, the Qur'an, Yoruba customary tradition, and Josephus. She is widely assumed to have been a queen regnant, but, since there is no historical proof of this, she may have been a queen consort. The location of her kingdom is believed to have been in Ethiopia and Yemen.
The Queen of Sheba as depicted ca. 1405 in a Prague manuscript
Recent scholarship
quote: A team of researchers funded by the American Foundation for the Study of Man (AFSM) and led by University of Calgary archaeology professor, Dr. Bill Glanzman, has been working to "unlock the secrets of a 3,000-year-old temple in Yemen." "We have an enormous job ahead of us," said Glanzman in 2007. "Our first task is to wrest the sanctuary from the desert sands, documenting our findings as we go. We're trying to determine how the temple was associated with the Queen of Sheba, how the sanctuary was used throughout history and how it came to play such an important role in Arab folklore."
Recent genome research by Luca Pagani of the Wellcome Trust Sanger Institute suggests that a non-African component of present-day Ethiopian people has much in common with people of the area around Syria, and that the introduction of that Syrian genetic component took place approximately 3,000 years ago. Newscientist.com reported "The meeting between the queen and Solomon remains a story, but the populations they came from did meet around that time, says Pagani" (the main researcher).
Name me an ARAB tribe NORTH OR SOUTH that was not originally called black my friend.
It's obvious "Firewall" can't do this. Firewall's knowledge doesn't reach that far. It is stuck somewhere at copying Wikipedia and people's opinion from "racist forums". Firewall has been reduced to trolling around.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Firewall: The original arabs were not black,but the original arabians were black.
Queen of Sheba
The Queen of Sheba (Hebrew: מלכת שבא, Malkaṯ Šəḇâ in Biblical Hebrew; Malkat Sh'va in Modern Hebrew; Ge'ez: ንግሥተ ሳባ, Nigiste Saba (Nəgəstä Saba); Arabic: ملكة سبأ, Malikat Sabaʾ) was a monarch of the ancient kingdom of Sheba and is referred to in Yemeni and Ethiopian history, the Bible, the Qur'an, Yoruba customary tradition, and Josephus. She is widely assumed to have been a queen regnant, but, since there is no historical proof of this, she may have been a queen consort. The location of her kingdom is believed to have been in Ethiopia and Yemen.
The Queen of Sheba as depicted ca. 1405 in a Prague manuscript
Recent scholarship
quote: A team of researchers funded by the American Foundation for the Study of Man (AFSM) and led by University of Calgary archaeology professor, Dr. Bill Glanzman, has been working to "unlock the secrets of a 3,000-year-old temple in Yemen." "We have an enormous job ahead of us," said Glanzman in 2007. "Our first task is to wrest the sanctuary from the desert sands, documenting our findings as we go. We're trying to determine how the temple was associated with the Queen of Sheba, how the sanctuary was used throughout history and how it came to play such an important role in Arab folklore."
Recent genome research by Luca Pagani of the Wellcome Trust Sanger Institute suggests that a non-African component of present-day Ethiopian people has much in common with people of the area around Syria, and that the introduction of that Syrian genetic component took place approximately 3,000 years ago. Newscientist.com reported "The meeting between the queen and Solomon remains a story, but the populations they came from did meet around that time, says Pagani" (the main researcher).
Name me an ARAB tribe NORTH OR SOUTH that was not originally called black my friend.
It's obvious "Firewall" can't so this. Firewall's knowledge doesn't reach that far. It is stuck somewhere at copying Wikipedia and people's opinion from "racist forums"
Yes just like the Neanderdummy was about a year ago. Maybe he'll make more progress than he/she has over the few years its been responding.lol! Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
the Nabateans appear to have been very mixed with the Romans. Al-Namari described the Nabateans as light-skinned.
There were many more Romans in Arabia than people are talking about. The Romans occupied parts of Arabia for many centuries. That area was called Roman Arabia. Take a look at the area considered Roman Arabia:
Read this:
There is evidence of Roman rule in northern Arabia dating to the reign of Caesar Augustus (27 BCE – 14 CE). During the reign of Tiberius (14–37 CE), the already wealthy and elegant north Arabian city of Palmyra, located along the caravan routes linking Persia with the Mediterranean ports of Roman Syria and Phoenicia, was made part of the Roman province of Syria. The area steadily grew further in importance as a trade route linking Persia, India, China, and the Roman Empire. During the following period of great prosperity, the Arab citizens of Palmyra adopted customs and modes of dress from both the Iranian Parthian world to the east and the Graeco-Roman west. In 129, Hadrian visited the city and was so enthralled by it that he proclaimed it a free city and renamed it Palmyra Hadriana.Map showing roman emperor Trajan control of northwestern Arabia until Hegra (actual Mada'in Saleh)The Roman province of Arabia Petraea was created at the beginning of the 2nd century by emperor Trajan. It was centered on Petra, but included even areas of northern Arabia under Nabatean control.Recently has been discovered evidence that Roman legions occupied Mada'in Saleh in the Hijaz mountains area of northwestern Arabia, increasing the extension of the "Arabia Petraea" province.[12]The desert frontier of Arabia Petraea was called by the Romans the Limes Arabicus. As a frontier province, it included a desert area of northeastern Arabia populated by the nomadic Saraceni.
posted
Dana you are obsessed with Jewish fairytales and naturally as an American you are in search of some kind of mystical lost heritage. I find it ironic that someone with mixed American ancestry wants to lead “their people” with them in search for their alleged mystical origin. In fact it so ironic, that I would call this the Cracker leading ability. If you closely look at your akin you will realize that most of them are lighter skinned and more admixed then the people they want to lead to their alleged truth.
The Arabian peninsula: Gate for Human Migrations Out of Africa or Cul-de-Sac? A Mitochondrial DNA Phylogeographic Perspective
Vicente M. Cabrera2 , Khaled K. Abu-Amero1 , José M. Larruga2 and Ana M. González2
(1) College of Medicine, King Saud University, 245, Riyadh, 11411, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia (2) Genética, Biología, Universidad de La Laguna La Laguna, 38271, Tenerife, Spain
Vicente M. Cabrera Email: vcabrera@ull.es
Khaled K. Abu-Amero (Corresponding author) Email: abuamero@gmail.com
José M. Larruga Email: jlarruga@ull.es
Ana M. González Email: amglez@ull.es
Abstract
The reconstruction of the origin and spread of modern humans has been a multidisciplinary enterprise. Archaeological records and genetic inferences (Stringer and Andrews, 1988), have given strong support to the model of a single recent origin of modern humans in Africa around 200 ka (McDougall et al., 2005). Subsequent dispersals out of Africa replaced, in relatively short time, the archaic humans living in Eurasia (Pääbo et al., 2004). However, the dates of this exit and the routes taken to spread out of Africa are currently debatable topics. On the basis of modern human fossils in the Levant, dated around 120 ka (Valladas et al., 1988), a northern route by land across the Sinai peninsula was proposed. The lack of fossil continuity in the area prompted researchers to consider it as an unproductive exit. A later successful exit around 45 ka using the same corridor has received stronger archaeological support (Lahr and Foley, 1994). A second, maritime, southern route across the Bab al Mandab strait and afterwards coasting Arabia, India, Southeast Asia to reach the Sahul has also been proposed as a complementary or alternative exit gate (Stringer, 2000). Recent archaeological findings in coastal Eritrea dated about 125 ka (Walter et al., 2000) have been taken as support of an earlier exit age for the southern route (Stringer, 2000).
Keywords Dispersals - Macrohaplogroup - MtDNA
Introduction
The reconstruction of the origin and spread of modern humans has been a multidisciplinary enterprise. Archaeological records and genetic inferences (Stringer and Andrews, 1988), have given strong support to the model of a single recent origin of modern humans in Africa around 200 ka (McDougall et al., 2005). Subsequent dispersals out of Africa replaced, in relatively short time, the archaic humans living in Eurasia (Pääbo et al., 2004). However, the dates of this exit and the routes taken to spread out of Africa are currently debatable topics. On the basis of modern human fossils in the Levant, dated around 120 ka (Valladas et al., 1988), a northern route by land across the Sinai peninsula was proposed. The lack of fossil continuity in the area prompted researchers to consider it as an unproductive exit. A later successful exit around 45 ka using the same corridor has received stronger archaeological support (Lahr and Foley, 1994). A second, maritime, southern route across the Bab al Mandab strait and afterwards coasting Arabia, India, Southeast Asia to reach the Sahul has also been proposed as a complementary or alternative exit gate (Stringer, 2000). Recent archaeological findings in coastal Eritrea dated about 125 ka (Walter et al., 2000) have been taken as support of an earlier exit age for the southern route (Stringer, 2000).
Phylogenetic analysis using autosomal gene frequency data were consistent with the out of Africa theory and with both, the southern and northern, dispersals out of Africa (Nei and Roychoudhury, 1993). Later studies using uniparental markers also agreed with dual dispersals. The phylogeography of Y chromosome binary haplotypes suggested that derived M216 and M174 haplotypes represent a southern route of dispersal from East Africa to India and beyond, whereas the M89 derived haplotypes represent a Eurasian colonization from the Levantine corridor (Underhill et al., 2001). In a similar vein, the first phylogeographic analysis using complete mitochondrial DNA genomic sequences confirmed that only two founder female mitochondrial lineages, named M and N, left Africa about 70–50 ka. Based on the geographic distribution of these lineages with M predominant in southern and eastern regions of Eurasia and N mainly in western and central Eurasia, it was proposed that M lineages expanded by the coastal southern route and N by the continental northern route (Maca-Meyer et al., 2001). However, the late detection of ancestral N lineages in south and Southeast Asia (Palanichamy et al., 2004; Macaulay et al., 2005) and in Australia (Ingman and Gyllensten, 2003) weakened the mitochondrial hypothesis (Tanaka et al., 2004). In addition, as the founder ages of M and N are very similar, it was hypothesized that both lineages were carried out in a unique migration (Forster et al., 2001), and, even more, that the southern coastal trail was the only route, being the western Eurasian colonization the result of an early offshoot of the southern radiation in India (Oppenheimer, 2003; Macaulay et al., 2005).
Under these suppositions, the Arabian peninsula has gained crucial importance to test the existence of an early southern route out of Africa across the Bab al Mandab strait. Regrettably, there is a lack of adequate hominin fossil record for this region and the archaeological material, although relatively abundant, has few reliable age estimates (Petraglia and Alsharekh, 2003). Until this situation changes, genetic inferences, gathered from phylogenetic and phylogeographic studies on the current populations of the Arabian peninsula seems to be an alternative option. In the following chapter we will review the most recent genetic information obtained from the peninsula using mitochondrial DNA as a temporal and spatial tracer.
Mitochondrial DNA Characteristics
Mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) is still the most used genetic marker in molecular evolution and in population studies. Before the in vitro DNA polymerase amplification was discovered, mtDNA was one of a few molecules amenable for the analysis of variation detectable by restriction fragment length polymorphisms (RFLPs). This was due to its small size (16.6 kb), circular structure, cytoplasmic localization, and high copy number per cell (hundreds to thousands) compared with the two copies for nuclear autosomes. These characteristics allowed its relatively easy isolation and the direct visualization of their electrophoretic RFLP profiles. Even today, in spite of the PCR improvements, its high copy number makes it the most useful DNA molecule for the analysis of fossil samples.
Another valuable property of mtDNA is its high mutation rate, several orders of magnitude higher than that of nuclear genes. This means that initially identical molecules accumulate different mutations in the time frames of the Paleolithic, Neolithic and even historic time. Furthermore, as it has only maternal inheritance, and as all molecules in an individual are alike, it has a non-recombining haploid genetics. For these reasons, differences between mtDNA sequences are only due to mutation. As time passes, mutations accumulate sequentially along less and less related molecules that constitute independent lineages known as haplotypes or lineages.
Relationships among lineages can be estimated by phylogenetic networks where mutations are classified in hierarchical levels. Old basal mutations are shared for clusters of lineages, defined as haplogroups, clusters or clades, whereas the most recent ones, at the tips, characterize individual haplotypes.
As mutations have a time probability to appear, it is possible, under the assumption of molecular neutrality, to date clusters transforming the average number of mutations accumulated in its haplotypes to time by multiplying this average with the mutation rate. Combining the number of different haplotypes and their relative frequencies in a cluster it is possible to obtain a measure of its diversity in a population, in a region or in a continent and comparing these diversities it is possible to infer the most probable geographic origin of that cluster. Moreover, when haplotypes of a subcluster are only detected in a region it is also possible to calculate the time when it expanded in that region if, in addition, the ancestral haplotype is only found in another region, the latter will be considered the source population of the former secondary expansion. Using these calculations it has been possible for instance, to roughly determine the time back to the most recent common ancestor of all mitochondria in extant human populations. To know that all the maternal lineages existing in Eurasia had an African origin, because all the Eurasian clusters coalesce into two macrohaplogroups (M and N) that are sister clusters of all the L3 African clusters that share with them an ancestral root, with branches of similar age into Africa. These calculations have also been used to infer the maternal genetic structure of Arabia, the most probable origin of their mtDNA lineages and the age of their expansions in this region.
To infer the mtDNA structure of the Arabian peninsula and to assess its role in the southern route, we have analyzed 1,129 Arabian partial sequences assorted into haplogroups by their HVSI/II sequence motifs and diagnostic RFLPs (Abu-Amero et al., 2008and references within). To resolve cases of difficult haplogroup diagnosis 15 individuals had to be complete or nearly complete genome mtDNA sequenced. The majority of the Arabian lineages have been assorted into well known African and Eurasian haplogroups albeit with different frequencies and heterogeneous geographic distributions (Abu-Amero et al., 2007, 2008).
Macrohaplogroup L in Arabia
The presence of mtDNA lineages belonging to the sub-Saharan Africa macrohaplogroup L in Eurasia and America is mainly explained as the result of the historic and infamous slave trade. In the Arabian peninsula, the incidence of L lineages differs according to country. The highest frequency is found in Yemen (38%), then in Oman and Qatar (16%) and drops to 10% in Saudi Arabia and UAE (Abu-Amero et al., 2008). The most probable source of these sub-Saharan Africa lineages is the geographically closest East African border. However, in that large region it is possible to distinguish at least a northern area conformed by Egypt, Nubia, Sudan, Ethiopia and Somalia in which, at mtDNA level, the L3 haplogroups have significantly greater frequencies than in the southern area represented by Kenya, Tanzania and Mozambique where, in compensation, the most ancestral haplogroup L0 has comparatively higher frequencies.
For presumably recent contacts, a common way to measure the relative gene flow between areas is to count the number of exact haplotype matches shared. For instance, 98% of the shared lineages between Yemen and Africa can be explained by direct eastern Africa influences as only 2% of them are exclusive matches with western Africa. In a similar vein, 88% of the shared sub-Saharan Africa lineages present in Saudi Arabia are also with East Africa, 5% are exclusive matches with western Africa and 7% exclusive with the Near East, implying a more varied source of sub-Saharan African influences in Saudi Arabia compared to Yemen (Abu-Amero et al., 2008and references within). In addition, the entire eastern African component in Yemen could be explained by south-eastern input as 46% of the matches are exclusive of this area and the remaining 64% shared by both areas, without exclusive matches with the northeast. However, for Saudi Arabia, the exclusive north-eastern (25%) and south-eastern (29%) components are rather similar with the remaining 46% of the East African matches present in both areas. As the Arab slave trade had greater impact on southern African areas, these data could be explained supposing greater traffic with Yemen than with Saudi Arabia. However, earlier contacts, between Arabian and north-eastern Africa historic kingdoms could have had relatively stronger genetic impact in Saudi Arabia compared to Yemen. Another hint of the relative independence of the Yemeni and Saudi sub-Saharan Africa genetic pools is the main and nearly exclusive presence in each country of single haplotypes of different and rare north-eastern African clades. Phylogenetically, L6 is a sister clade of the ancient and widespread African clade L2 (Kivisild et al., 2004). Outside Yemen, it has only been detected twice in Ethiopia (Kivisild et al., 2004) and once in Saudi Arabia (Abu-Amero et al., 2008), but it has a frequency of 12% in Yemen although only one haplotype was the main responsible (86%) of this frequency. On the other hand, L5 is also a phylogenetically ancestral clade that has a sparse north-eastern African distribution. It has not been detected in Yemen, however six Saudi Arab sequences (1%) belonged to the L5a1 subclade (Abu-Amero et al., 2008), and five (83%) were represented by a single haplotype (Abu-Amero et al., 2008). Most probably both lineages arrived at the Arabian peninsula from north-eastern Africa by two independent events, and expanded in rather endogamic and isolated populations. This supposition is congruent with the significant genetic structure found in the Arabian peninsula (Abu-Amero et al., 2008). Based on the lack of matches between Arabia and Africa, it has been suggested that haplogroup L6 might have originated from the same out-of-Africa migration that carried haplogroup M and N to Eurasia. This seems not to be the case for the L5a1 subclade because the main L5a1 Saudi haplotype has exact matches in Egypt, Ethiopia and Kenya. In any case, due to ancient or more recent African gene flows, the fact that any of both lineages has not spread into surrounding areas implies that, since their arrivals, the Arabian peninsula has acted more as a cul-de-sac than as a demic source of later migrations.
Macrohaplogroup M in Arabia
Macrohaplogroup M is particularly abundant and diverse in South and Southeast Asia, reaching frequencies above 60% in some regions (Metspalu et al., 2004). However, it is practically absent in western Asia (Quintana-Murci et al., 2004). In Africa, only one autochthonous basal branch of M, named M1, has been detected (Quintana-Murci et al., 1999). In this continent it has a predominant northern distribution. M1 is particularly abundant in Ethiopia (20%). From there, frequencies significantly diminish forming decreasing gradients westwards and southwards. It has been proposed that the presence of M1 in Africa and surrounding Mediterranean areas can be explained as result of two expansion centers situated in East and Northwest Africa which are marked by the radiation of subhaplogroups M1a and M1b respectively (Olivieri et al., 2006; González et al., 2007). Although the coalescence age of M1 is Paleolithic it seems that the most important expansions occurred in Neolithic times when the Sahara was a more hospitable region. Some authors consider that the presence of M1 in Africa supports the idea that macrohaplogroup M originated in eastern Africa and was carried towards Asia with the out of Africa expansion (Quintana-Murci et al., 1999), others think that the distribution of M1 in Africa traces an early human backflow to this Continent from Asia (Maca-Meyer et al., 2001; Olivieri et al., 2006; González et al., 2007).
In Arabia, M lineages account for 7% of the total and half of them belong to the M1 African clade. M1 frequencies are significantly greater in western Arabian regions than in the East (Abu-Amero et al., 2008). As the majority of the M1 haplotypes in Arabia belong to the East African M1a subclade, it seems that, likewise L lineages, the M1 presence in the Arabian peninsula signals a predominant East African influence since the Neolithic onwards.
The majority of the resting M lineages found in Arabia has matches or are related to Indian clades. In addition, some M sequences point to rare links with more remote geographic regions as Central Asia, West New Guinea and even Australia (Abu-Amero et al., 2008). Although more ancient connections cannot be discarded, it seems that this rare M component in the Arabian populations could be the result of trade and military links among those regions in Arabia during and after the British role. As all the M lineages found in Arabia belong to haplogroups that have deeper roots and diversities in other geographic regions, its presence in the Arabian peninsula is better explained as external genetic inputs. Therefore, there are no traces of autochthonous M lineages in Arabia that could support the exit of modern humans from Africa across the Bab al Mandab strait.
Macrohaplogroup N in Arabia
A sole branch of macrohaplogroup N, named R, encompasses the overwhelming majority of the N clades. It will be treated in the next section. The resting sister branches of R, that sprout directly off the N trunk, have an irregular geographic distribution. Western (N1, W, X) and northern (A, N9, Y) Asian clades have moderate frequencies in their respective geographic ranges (Quintana-Murci et al., 2004; Tanaka et al., 2004; Abu-Amero et al., 2008). On the contrary, basic N clades in India are sparse (Palanichamy et al., 2004) and even rarer in Southeast Asia (Friedlaender et al., 2005; Macaulay et al., 2005; Hill et al., 2006). However, they are predominant and highly diverse in Australia (van Holst Pellekaan et al., 2006) the utmost limit of the out-of-Africa exit.
Only branches N1a, N1b, N1c, I, W, X2 of the western Eurasian N clades have been detected in Arabia (Kivisild et al., 2004; Abu-Amero et al., 2007; Rowold et al., 2007) albeit in low individual frequencies. The majority of these Arabian lineages reflect genetic inputs into the peninsula from adjacent areas. For instance, haplogroup X has two well defined branches of north African (X1) and Eurasian (X2) adscription (Reidla et al., 2003), but all the X haplotypes found in Saudi Arabia (Abu-Amero et al., 2008) and Yemen (Kivisild et al., 2004) belong to the Eurasian branch, which discards an East African introduction. The geographical distribution of the Arabian I and W lineages points to an eastern provenance across Iran (Abu-Amero et al., 2008). Haplogroups N1b and N1c are moderately represented in Arabia although their highest diversities are in Iran and Turkey respectively pointing to eastern and northern contributions to the Arabian genetic pool. However, the N1a haplogroup deserves a more detailed analysis. First, frequencies in Arabia (7% in Yemen, 4% in Saudi Arabia) are higher than in surrounding areas. Second, diversities in the peninsula are the highest in the geographic range of N1a (Table 1). Third, Arabian haplotypes are present in the most ancient nodes of the N1a network (Fig. 1), and in all its main expansions. Hence, it may be concluded that the Arabian peninsula was within the nuclear area that originated the first and subsequent N1a dispersions. Adding a Tanzanian N1a (Gonder et al., 2007) and an Italian (Gasparre et al., 2007) to the N1a tree of complete sequences recently published (Derenko et al., 2007), it can be deduced that N1a haplotypes carrying the 16147G transversion are ancestral compared to those with the 16147A mutation. This fact gives a root, marked with a star, to the N1a network constructed with worldwide HVSI sequences (Fig. 1). It seems that the N1a ancestor migrated from west-central Asia, the most probable cradle of the N1 expansion, southwards to Arabia where a secondary radiation occurred affecting East Africa, and southwest and South Asia (Fig. 1). One of these lineages suffered a transition in position 16147G giving place to the 16147A clade (N1a1) that also expanded in the western range of the preceding 16147G wave. In time, at the northern edge of the 16147A clade dispersion, perhaps in southern Russia, a new mutation, 16,320, in the HVSI region, defined a new clade named N1a1a that originated the biggest expansion in all directions, reaching, southwards, the Mediterranean area, and, again, Arabia, Iran and India and northwards Siberia and Europe. In all these areas new and more geographically localized subclusters emerged, such as that characterized by the 16,189 transition in Central Siberia (Fig. 1). Today, N1a is a minor cluster in its whole range but it seems that it was more abundant in Central Europe in Neolithic times (Haak et al., 2005) and in the Altaian region around 3,000 years ago (Ricaut et al., 2004). Depending on the mutation rate chosen and on the coding or regulatory region used, coalescence times for these dispersions varied broadly, oscillating between 40 and 20 ka for the whole N1a cluster and around 25–11 ka for the N1a1a subcluster. Possibly, these expansions took place during interstadial favorable episodes. In any case, this detailed analysis of the N1a haplogroup has demonstrated the existence of late Paleolithic human expansions in Arabia. However, as the entire sister branches of N1a had a northern origin, these demographic expansions are more the result of secondary back-migration than of primary radiations in Arabia after the out-of-Africa exit. Table 1 Number of individuals (N i), number of different haplotypes (N h) and nucleotide diversity by 1,000 with error (π ± s), in several geographic areas Area
N i
N h
π ± s
Northeast Africa
16
9
5.602 ± 3.891
Southwest Asia
16
9
8.756 ± 5.540
NC-Asia
8
6
3.137 ± 2.733
Arabia
21
12
13.353 ± 7.772
Europe
42
23
12.164 ± 6.993
Fig. 1 Reduced median network (Bandelt et al., 1999) relating N1a HVSI sequences. The ancestral motif (star) differs from rCRS at the indicated positions. Numbers along linksrefer to nucleotide position minus 16,000. Broken linesare less probable links and/or recurrent mutations. Size of boxes is proportional to the number of individuals included. Codes are ALB, Albanian; ALT, Altaian; ARA, Arab; ARM, Armenian; AUS, Austrian; AZO, Azorean; BER, Berber; BUR, Buryat; CAN, Canarian; CAU, Caucasian; CRO, Croatian; EGY, Egyptian; ENG, English; ETH, Ethiopian; FRA, French; GER, German; GRE, Greek; HUF, Hungarian fossil; IND, Indian; IRN, Iranian; ITA, Italian; MON, Mongolian; MOR, Moroccan; NCE, North-central European; NEE, North-east European; POR, Portuguese; RCH, Chuvasch Russian; RBA, Bashkirs Russian; RKP, Komi-Permyaks Russian; RTA, Tatar Russian; SCA, Scandinavian; SCO, Scottish; SOM, Somali; SPA, Spaniard; TAN, Tanzanian Macrohaplogroup R in Arabia Macrohaplogroup R derives from the N trunk by two additional mutations (gain of 12,705 and loss of 16,223 transitions). Similar to the other macrohaplogroups, it also shows a notable geographic structure with different branches characteristic of different areas. In Western Asia seven main clades (R0a, HV, H, V, U, J and T) nearly capture all its diversity. In India the R radiation was particularly impressive, and many lineages are still pending full characterization (Metspalu et al., 2004; Palanichamy et al., 2004). Haplogroups B and F are the most conspicuous R representatives in Southern and Eastern Asia and, different P branches, in New Guinea and Australia. Although represented by different clades, a notable characteristic of R is that it is widespread and abundant everywhere.
In the Arabian peninsula, except for a few R1, R2 and U2 haplotypes of clear Indian origin, the bulk of its R lineages (70%) belong to Western Asian clades (Abu-Amero et al., 2008). From their relative geographic distributions in Arabia, the number of exact matches with surrounding areas, and relative diversities in the different regions, it is possible to assign a geographic provenance to the majority of the R haplotypes found in Arabia. It has been demonstrated that U6 had an old implantation in North Africa (Maca-Meyer et al., 2003) and that is the most probable origin of the few U6 haplotypes detected in the Arabian peninsula. The majority of the U and K representatives in Arabia (U3, U4, U7, K) show greater frequencies in the eastern and southern Arabian regions supporting an eastern entrance through Iran. Nevertheless, the major portion of R Arabian lineages (60%) had a most probable northern source. In this respect the distribution of haplogroup H is a good example. It is the most frequent clade in Europe (45%) and Near East (25%) however in the Arabian peninsula its mean frequency, around 9%, is moderate. In fact, H frequencies significantly diminished with latitude from Turkey to Yemen (Abu-Amero et al., 2007). Haplogroup T shows a similar trend presenting its lower frequencies in the southern Yemen and Oman countries. Other minor lineages in Arabia, as those belonging to the European U2e and U5 clades and the infrequent U9, could also reach the Arabian peninsula from northern areas. Due to the lack of clear founder subclades in Arabia for these lineages, and to the difficulty of differentiating successive gene flows or expansions, because the most recent migration could carry both early and derivate lineages, it is impossible to accurately gauge their entrance times in the Peninsula. However, for the two most frequent R clades in Arabia R0a (Abu-Amero et al., 2007) and J1b (Abu-Amero et al., 2008), phylogenetic and phylogeographic analysis have allowed to date different expansion events. The time to the most recent common ancestor (TMRCA) for both R0a and J1b clades was calculated around 20 ka (Abu-Amero et al., 2007, 2008). However, whereas for the latter the ancestral motif was present in the Near East as much as in Arabia, suggesting that the peninsula played an active role in the Paleolithic spread of J1b, the R0a first radiation had a main Near East origin because its ancestral motif was barely present in Arabia. However, recent data from Yemen (Černý et al., 2008) raises the possibility that R0a also had a Paleolithic spread in southern Arabia. The successive most important radiation of both clades, signed by the R0a1a and J1b1a1 subclades, had, again, similar Neolithic ages around 10 ka (Abu-Amero et al., 2007, 2008). In both cases there was a shortage or absence of their ancestral motifs in Arabia discarding this area as a radiation center. However, whereas the R0a1a wave reached Arabia from the Near East, J1b1a1 occupied northern areas, including Europe, being absent in the Arabian peninsula. It seems that at least two well represented subclades had Arabia as their radiation origin (Abu-Amero et al., 2008). The J1b one, rooted by the 16,136 transition has a TMRCA around 11 ka and could be considered the southern branch of the J1b1a1 Neolithic northern expansion. Nevertheless, the R0a Arabian branch, defined by the 16,304 transition, is only about 4,000 years old which situates its expansion in the Bronze Age (Abu-Amero et al., 2008). From the above data it may be concluded that the Arabian peninsula was mainly a receiver of mitochondrial immigrations. Even in favorable climatic conditions population densities should be low enough to convert this region in a demographic expansive centre. Finally, the lack of ancestral R lineages in Arabia left this region without any genetic support to the proposed southern route across the Bab al Mandab strait of modern humans. Although this lack of genetic evidence can be attributed to the total extinction of the ancestral mtDNA lineages that once, hypothetically, crossed southern Arabia, and the single coastal migration model has general support (Stringer, 2000; Metspalu et al., 2004; Forster and Matsumura, 2005; Macaulay et al., 2005; Thangaraj et al., 2005), any alternative model that might explain the first successful Eurasian dispersion of modern humans without involving Arabia should be taken into consideration.
Mitochondrial Footsteps of the Old World Human Colonization When Maca-Meyer et al. (2001) formulated the hypothesis of two dispersals from Africa based on the phylogeny and phylogeography of complete mtDNA sequences, the presence in South and Southeast Asia and in Australia of lineages belonging to the macrohaplogroup N, that were not R derivates, had not yet been detected. Based on the distribution of the two macrolineages with N prevalent in Western Asia and M predominant in South and East Asia, it was proposed that M and N were, respectively, the mitochondrial signals of the already proposed southern and northern routes (Nei and Roychoudhury, 1993). The simultaneous presence in India, Malaysia, and Australia of N, M, and R lineages has prompted other researchers (Forster et al., 2001; Kivisild et al., 2003; Hudjashov et al., 2007) to propose that there was only a single coastal southern route out of Africa. On this supposition an ancestral L3 split into haplogroups M, N and R out of Africa and, after that, was lost by genetic drift. Then the three lineages traveled together eastwards coasting South Arabia, India and Southeast Asia reaching Australia. Moreover, the colonization of West Eurasia has been explained as an offshoot from the Southern route discrediting the two dispersals hypothesis. However, as it was previously suggested (Tanaka et al., 2004), this new scenario does not satisfactorily explain the mitochondrial haplogroup phylogeographic distributions. With some modifications, the two routes model previously proposed better explains it. First of all, M and N are two independent lineages because, as all the other L3 branches in Africa, they directly spread from the common L3 trunk. Second, we consider the coalescence age of L3 as the lowest bound of the out-of-Africa exit (Maca-Meyer et al., 2001). This frame could anticipate the Eurasian colonization to as early as 100–80 ka which coincides with an interglacial stage, an optimum period to leave Africa across to the then humid and hospitable Sinai peninsula. Most probably, during this favorable period several small groups of modern humans ventured out-of-Africa through this peninsula following afterwards northern and southern corridors signaled by their preys and avoiding regions where competition with other hominins, as the Neanderthals, could be strong. It is worthwhile mentioning that this date is coincidental with the first paleontological evidence of modern human presence in the Near East (Valladas et al., 1988; Mercier et al., 1993). Mitochondrial lineages carried by these colonizers were not yet ripe M and N lineages but their L3 ancestors. Under this supposition the M and N ancestors could have left Africa independently. Around 60 ka glacial conditions returned, strongly affecting the descendants of those wandering groups that suffered important bottle-necks with the subsequent loss of lineages, in such a way that only the direct ancestors of all the present day M and N branches lasted. As this selective process occurred well inside Asia, not in Africa, it is not necessary to invoke a very fast diaspora to explain the simultaneous existence of ancestral M and N lineages in areas geographically as distant as India, Southeast Asia or Australia. Glacial conditions forced human bands in the North going southwards and those in the South, to avoid deserts, searching for more hospitable regions. The phylogeographic distribution of M and N haplogroups points to northern and southern populations as the bearers of N and M lineages respectively. It is evident that R is an ancestral branch of N that signals a primary radiation of N in Asia. After its apparition, some R branches spread southwards to India where they met M, and others, along with N lineages, dispersed to Southeast Asia avoiding India in their southern migrations. Clearly, this model also better explains the early presence of modern humans in Australia. Due to phylogenetic considerations we think that at least two migratory waves reached Australia. The first one carrying mainly N ancestral lineages and the second, that also affected Papua New Guinea, bringing R and M lineages (Fig. 2). Around 45 ka, coinciding with an interstadial substage of the Würm Glacial, favorable climatic conditions allowed secondary dispersions including, westwards, Europe, the Near East and northern Africa, southwards India, and northwards Siberia (Fig. 2). With the exception of an M1 African branch, these waves brought to West Asia and North Africa only N and R lineages. It is not easy to explain the absence of ancestral M lineages in Western Eurasia if they were the result of an Indian offshoot, as in India around of 60% of its lineages belong to different M haplogroups. Furthermore, the fact that the Eurasian N and R lineages are not derived from Indian clades is also against its Indian origin. As there is no evidence of African haplogroups in Eurasia that could be dated to that epoch, we think that the proposed out-of-Africa exit around 45 ka across the Sinai peninsula had little impact or did not exist at all. This scenario leaves the Bab al Mandab corridor unnecessary as the genetic studies on Arabia suggest. It has been argued that to reach Australia their colonizers had to have seafaring experience, as it was necessary to cross the Bab al Mandab strait. But it could most probably be acquired later in Asian tropical regions rich in wood and wide rivers than in the, under glacial period, desert regions of the Horn of Africa and Arabia.
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Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: "true Arab" is no more valid than "true negro" /close thread
Ah, one of the Albinos favorite tricks, deflating a hard-to-prove-truth, and then equating it with a well known lie.
With the Arab thing, actually what we have here, is a well conceived plan bearing fruit.
When the Tajiks, Soghdians, and Bactrians etc. from central and west Asia, took over Islam (these were the Hadith writers), from the mostly illiterate Arabs. These central and west Asia Albinos, educated former subjects of the Persian Empire, understood that in order to completely take over the religion, they would need to destroy it's links to it's Black creators. Therefore they declared that images of humans were banned in the religion.
Thus today, we cannot prove what a "Real" Arab looks like, because the Albino usurpers of Islam had a very good plan.
Luckily for us normal people, the Albino usurpers of the Hebrew religions came after those religions were already well established. Consequently the was a well established artistic tradition for those religions:
Therefore all the Albino usurpers could do was to try and destroy the original artwork and create fakes in the image of the albino.
Thus today, though it's hard, we CAN produce artwork which proves what those Black originals looked like.
So you see lying one, there really were "True Arabs" they were the original inhabitants of the peninsula, or did you think that some mysterious force magically put all of these modern people there at once? Idiot!
For those interested in this sort of thing, the latest archeology indicates that the original Arabs were from Nubia.
As to the "True Negro" that nonsense is just you Albinos falling in love with your own lies. Blacks are the most diverse humans on the planet: so who but a degenerate defective Albino would try to say that all Blacks are of one phenotype? You people are truly absurd.
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Pulp: Dana you are obsessed with Jewish fairytales and naturally as an American you are in search of some kind of mystical lost heritage. I find it ironic that someone with mixed American ancestry wants to lead “their people” with them in search for their alleged mystical origin. In fact it so ironic, that I would call this the Cracker leading ability. If you closely look at your akin you will realize that most of them are lighter skinned and more admixed then the people they want to lead to their alleged truth.
God bless America!
Its actually black Arabian i.e. Israelite and Hebrew folk tale and allegory of which you speak, my fine Neandernazi friend.
And, there are actually a lot of people whiter than me that are and have been interested in the fact that for thousands of years people of black African biological affiliation have influenced and BUILT ancient civilizations ACROSS THE GLOBE long before the direct ancestors of modern Europeans were a blip in the worlds eye - from Godfrey Higgins and Baldwin to Bauval, Bernal and Christopher Ehret. Why not joint them?!
For which reasons the Greeks called them "Favorites of the Gods" and the Atlantaeans, ETC.
I don't know what you mean by "mystical" origin. I hope you haven't confused me with one of your nutty brethren that wants to think every civilization a BLACK MAN developed - such as STONE HENGE - and Chatal Huyuk and other cultures with cyclopean ruins and pyramids ACROSS THE GLOBE came from UFOs,
BTW - In real life and genetically I am not lighter or more mixed (with Europeans that is) than any other middle class black American of U.S. descent, not even as light as Farrakhan.
If "Crackers" - as you put it - have lead in anything it has been the destruction of the planet on a global level, within a space of the 500 years they've been in power, and secondly, lying about ancient history.
Thank you for your consideration of these matters.
And yes may God bless America because these Vunderkind of yours (and mine to a certain extent - UNFORTUNATELY) trying to destroy our economy and country sure as h _ _ _ ain't gonna! Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: the Nabateans appear to have been very mixed with the Romans. Al-Namari described the Nabateans as light-skinned.
There were many more Romans in Arabia than people are talking about. The Romans occupied parts of Arabia for many centuries. That area was called Roman Arabia. Take a look at the area considered Roman Arabia:
Read this:
There is evidence of Roman rule in northern Arabia dating to the reign of Caesar Augustus (27 BCE – 14 CE). During the reign of Tiberius (14–37 CE), the already wealthy and elegant north Arabian city of Palmyra, located along the caravan routes linking Persia with the Mediterranean ports of Roman Syria and Phoenicia, was made part of the Roman province of Syria. The area steadily grew further in importance as a trade route linking Persia, India, China, and the Roman Empire. During the following period of great prosperity, the Arab citizens of Palmyra adopted customs and modes of dress from both the Iranian Parthian world to the east and the Graeco-Roman west. In 129, Hadrian visited the city and was so enthralled by it that he proclaimed it a free city and renamed it Palmyra Hadriana.Map showing roman emperor Trajan control of northwestern Arabia until Hegra (actual Mada'in Saleh)The Roman province of Arabia Petraea was created at the beginning of the 2nd century by emperor Trajan. It was centered on Petra, but included even areas of northern Arabia under Nabatean control.Recently has been discovered evidence that Roman legions occupied Mada'in Saleh in the Hijaz mountains area of northwestern Arabia, increasing the extension of the "Arabia Petraea" province.[12]The desert frontier of Arabia Petraea was called by the Romans the Limes Arabicus. As a frontier province, it included a desert area of northeastern Arabia populated by the nomadic Saraceni.
quote:Originally posted by Pulp: If you closely look at your akin you will realize that most of them are lighter skinned and more admixed then the people they want to lead to their alleged truth.
The last time I heard anything that delusional, it was coming from Firewall.
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: "true Arab" is no more valid than "true negro" /close thread
there really were "True Arabs" they were the original inhabitants of the peninsula, or did you think that some mysterious force magically put all of these modern people there at once? Idiot!
For those interested in this sort of thing, the latest archeology indicates that the original Arabs were from Nubia.
As to the "True Negro" that nonsense is just you Albinos falling in love with your own lies. Blacks are the most diverse humans on the planet: so who but a degenerate defective Albino would try to say that all Blacks are of one phenotype? You people are truly absurd.
'Arabs' are not the original inhbaitants
Ubaid artifacts spread also all along the Arabian littoral, showing the growth of a trading system that stretched from the Mediterranean coast through to Oman. The archaeological record shows that Arabian Bifacial/Ubaid period came to an abrupt end in eastern Arabia and the Oman peninsula at 3800 BC, just after the phase of lake lowering and onset of dune reactivation. At this time, increased aridity led to an end in semi-desert nomadism, and there is no evidence of human presence in the area for approximately 1000 years, the so-called "Dark Millennium"Posts: 42921 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
Actually now that you mention it the bifacial culture of Ubaid man came to contribute to the later Umm an Nar culture whose people later contributed to the populations further west.
"A bifacial industry is said to occur on Umm an-Nar period sites in Oman (cf. Pul- lar, 1985, p.63; Pullar and Jackli, 1978, p.61)..." Arabia the Blest, Daniel Potts.
Stuff I have already talked about on this forum a number of times.
Now go back and look.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: the Nabateans appear to have been very mixed with the Romans. Al-Namari described the Nabateans as light-skinned.
There were many more Romans in Arabia than people are talking about. The Romans occupied parts of Arabia for many centuries. That area was called Roman Arabia. Take a look at the area considered Roman Arabia:
Read this:
There is evidence of Roman rule in northern Arabia dating to the reign of Caesar Augustus (27 BCE – 14 CE). During the reign of Tiberius (14–37 CE), the already wealthy and elegant north Arabian city of Palmyra, located along the caravan routes linking Persia with the Mediterranean ports of Roman Syria and Phoenicia, was made part of the Roman province of Syria. The area steadily grew further in importance as a trade route linking Persia, India, China, and the Roman Empire. During the following period of great prosperity, the Arab citizens of Palmyra adopted customs and modes of dress from both the Iranian Parthian world to the east and the Graeco-Roman west. In 129, Hadrian visited the city and was so enthralled by it that he proclaimed it a free city and renamed it Palmyra Hadriana.Map showing roman emperor Trajan control of northwestern Arabia until Hegra (actual Mada'in Saleh)The Roman province of Arabia Petraea was created at the beginning of the 2nd century by emperor Trajan. It was centered on Petra, but included even areas of northern Arabia under Nabatean control.Recently has been discovered evidence that Roman legions occupied Mada'in Saleh in the Hijaz mountains area of northwestern Arabia, increasing the extension of the "Arabia Petraea" province.[12]The desert frontier of Arabia Petraea was called by the Romans the Limes Arabicus. As a frontier province, it included a desert area of northeastern Arabia populated by the nomadic Saraceni.
"the Nabateans appear to have been very mixed with the Romans. Al-Namari described the Nabateans as light-skinned."
Yes, Neanderdummy now your getting it! Your catching on. What happened?! Arabs mixed with NON-ARABS and they became fairer IN COLOR.
You need to celebrate as you have now graduated to 3rd grade.
Don't forget about the Romans and Greeks in south Arabia too though.
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche:
there is no indication that northern ARabia was occupied by anybody but these BLACKS until the 17th century when Syrian bedouin moved down from the north.
^^^ you forgot about this blatant contradiction?
_________________________________________
Yemeni Arab
Posts: 42921 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
Actually now that you mention it bifacial culture of Ubaid man came to contribute to the later Umm an Nar culture whose people later contributed to the populations further west.
"A bifacial industry is said to occur on Umm an-Nar period sites in Oman (cf. Pul- lar, 1985, p.63; Pullar and Jackli, 1978, p.61)..." Araby the Blest, 1988, Daniel Potts p. 40.
Stuff I have already talked about on this forum a number of times.
-------------------- D. Reynolds-Marniche Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: the Nabateans appear to have been very mixed with the Romans. Al-Namari described the Nabateans as light-skinned.
There were many more Romans in Arabia than people are talking about. The Romans occupied parts of Arabia for many centuries. That area was called Roman Arabia. Take a look at the area considered Roman Arabia:
Read this:
There is evidence of Roman rule in northern Arabia dating to the reign of Caesar Augustus (27 BCE – 14 CE). During the reign of Tiberius (14–37 CE), the already wealthy and elegant north Arabian city of Palmyra, located along the caravan routes linking Persia with the Mediterranean ports of Roman Syria and Phoenicia, was made part of the Roman province of Syria. The area steadily grew further in importance as a trade route linking Persia, India, China, and the Roman Empire. During the following period of great prosperity, the Arab citizens of Palmyra adopted customs and modes of dress from both the Iranian Parthian world to the east and the Graeco-Roman west. In 129, Hadrian visited the city and was so enthralled by it that he proclaimed it a free city and renamed it Palmyra Hadriana.Map showing roman emperor Trajan control of northwestern Arabia until Hegra (actual Mada'in Saleh)The Roman province of Arabia Petraea was created at the beginning of the 2nd century by emperor Trajan. It was centered on Petra, but included even areas of northern Arabia under Nabatean control.Recently has been discovered evidence that Roman legions occupied Mada'in Saleh in the Hijaz mountains area of northwestern Arabia, increasing the extension of the "Arabia Petraea" province.[12]The desert frontier of Arabia Petraea was called by the Romans the Limes Arabicus. As a frontier province, it included a desert area of northeastern Arabia populated by the nomadic Saraceni.
"the Nabateans appear to have been very mixed with the Romans. Al-Namari described the Nabateans as light-skinned."
Yes, Neanderdummy now your getting it! Your catching on. What happened?! Arabs mixed with NON-ARABS and they became fairer IN COLOR.
You need to celebrate as you have now graduated to 3rd grade.
Don't forget about the Romans and Greeks in south Arabia too though.
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche:
there is no indication that northern ARabia was occupied by anybody but these BLACKS until the 17th century when Syrian bedouin moved down from the north.
^^^ you forgot about this blatant contradiction?
_________________________________________
Yemeni Arab
Where's the contradiction. Romans, Greeks, Parthians, Arabs and later Syrians, Iranians and Turks Settled in Yemen makes for bushy- browed, straight haired, Sicilian-colored Arabs with long faces claiming Arab origin and living next to less modified near black Arabs.
Sorry I don't see it.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: The archaeological record shows that Arabian Bifacial/Ubaid period came to an abrupt end in eastern Arabia and the Oman peninsula at 3800 BC, just after the phase of lake lowering and onset of dune reactivation. At this time, increased aridity led to an end in semi-desert nomadism, and there is no evidence of human presence in the area for approximately 1000 years, the so-called "Dark Millennium"
I'm sorry, are you a blood relative of Firewall?
What is this, open season for stupidity?
Don't you THINK about what you're saying BEFORE saying it?
I mean just how stupid do you have to be, to believe that the main corridor between Africa and India was closed off to human occupation for 1000 years: NOT BECAUSE OF RADIOACTIVITY, but simply because it dried up and became a desert. As if people do not live in deserts.
Damn you're stupid!
BTW - since when has the stuff on Wiki been considered authoritative?
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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there is no indication that northern ARabia was occupied by anybody but these BLACKS until the 17th century when Syrian bedouin moved down from the north.
^^^ you forgot about this blatant contradiction?
_________________________________________
Yemeni Arab [/qb][/QUOTE]
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche: Where's the contradiction. Romans, Greeks, Parthians, Arabs and later Syrians, Iranians and Turks Settled in Yemen makes for bushy- browed, straight haired, Sicilian-colored Arabs with long faces claiming Arab origin and living next to less modified near black Arabs.
Sorry I don't see it. [/QB]
the blatant contradiction was this happened far prior to the 17th century and far prior to Islam
Posts: 42921 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: "true Arab" is no more valid than "true negro" /close thread
there really were "True Arabs" they were the original inhabitants of the peninsula, or did you think that some mysterious force magically put all of these modern people there at once? Idiot!
For those interested in this sort of thing, the latest archeology indicates that the original Arabs were from Nubia.
As to the "True Negro" that nonsense is just you Albinos falling in love with your own lies. Blacks are the most diverse humans on the planet: so who but a degenerate defective Albino would try to say that all Blacks are of one phenotype? You people are truly absurd.
'Arabs' are not the original inhbaitants
Ubaid artifacts spread also all along the Arabian littoral, showing the growth of a trading system that stretched from the Mediterranean coast through to Oman. The archaeological record shows that Arabian Bifacial/Ubaid period came to an abrupt end in eastern Arabia and the Oman peninsula at 3800 BC, just after the phase of lake lowering and onset of dune reactivation. At this time, increased aridity led to an end in semi-desert nomadism, and there is no evidence of human presence in the area for approximately 1000 years, the so-called "Dark Millennium"
People have lived there ever since the Nubian Complex.
Have you figured out already who these people might have been? Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: the Nabateans appear to have been very mixed with the Romans. Al-Namari described the Nabateans as light-skinned.
There were many more Romans in Arabia than people are talking about. The Romans occupied parts of Arabia for many centuries. That area was called Roman Arabia. Take a look at the area considered Roman Arabia:
Read this:
There is evidence of Roman rule in northern Arabia dating to the reign of Caesar Augustus (27 BCE – 14 CE). During the reign of Tiberius (14–37 CE), the already wealthy and elegant north Arabian city of Palmyra, located along the caravan routes linking Persia with the Mediterranean ports of Roman Syria and Phoenicia, was made part of the Roman province of Syria. The area steadily grew further in importance as a trade route linking Persia, India, China, and the Roman Empire. During the following period of great prosperity, the Arab citizens of Palmyra adopted customs and modes of dress from both the Iranian Parthian world to the east and the Graeco-Roman west. In 129, Hadrian visited the city and was so enthralled by it that he proclaimed it a free city and renamed it Palmyra Hadriana.Map showing roman emperor Trajan control of northwestern Arabia until Hegra (actual Mada'in Saleh)The Roman province of Arabia Petraea was created at the beginning of the 2nd century by emperor Trajan. It was centered on Petra, but included even areas of northern Arabia under Nabatean control.Recently has been discovered evidence that Roman legions occupied Mada'in Saleh in the Hijaz mountains area of northwestern Arabia, increasing the extension of the "Arabia Petraea" province.[12]The desert frontier of Arabia Petraea was called by the Romans the Limes Arabicus. As a frontier province, it included a desert area of northeastern Arabia populated by the nomadic Saraceni.
"the Nabateans appear to have been very mixed with the Romans. Al-Namari described the Nabateans as light-skinned."
Yes, Neanderdummy now your getting it! Your catching on. What happened?! Arabs mixed with NON-ARABS and they became fairer IN COLOR.
You need to celebrate as you have now graduated to 3rd grade.
Don't forget about the Romans and Greeks in south Arabia too though.
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche:
there is no indication that northern ARabia was occupied by anybody but these BLACKS until the 17th century when Syrian bedouin moved down from the north.
^^^ you forgot about this blatant contradiction?
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Yemeni Arab
Where's the contradiction. Romans, Greeks, Parthians, Arabs and later Syrians, Iranians and Turks Settled in Yemen makes for bushy- browed, straight haired, Sicilian-colored Arabs with long faces claiming Arab origin and living next to less modified near black Arabs.
Sorry I don't see it.
One should not forget, they took along with them slaves from Central Europe. Each and everyone of them.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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there is no indication that northern ARabia was occupied by anybody but these BLACKS until the 17th century when Syrian bedouin moved down from the north.
^^^ you forgot about this blatant contradiction?
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Yemeni Arab
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche: Where's the contradiction. Romans, Greeks, Parthians, Arabs and later Syrians, Iranians and Turks Settled in Yemen makes for bushy- browed, straight haired, Sicilian-colored Arabs with long faces claiming Arab origin and living next to less modified near black Arabs.
Sorry I don't see it. [/QB]
the blatant contradiction was this happened far prior to the 17th century and far prior to Islam [/QB][/QUOTE]
Right on, the blatant contradiction.
World Skin Tone Chart
-also depending on amount of time a population has been living at a particular latitude
lol! Africaresource - not my blog - has a right to post articles of their choosing Yer Lyin _ss. Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
And that article makes sense since many Eritrean and Ethiopic populations came there from North Africa and Sahara.
Like I always said the so-called "Hamites" are nothing less than some Nilotic "Negroes" who've absorbed some non-Africans as evidenced by THEIR HAIR.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
Dana you are in fact pushing forward racial claims about racial purity. Defacto you are in line with your kind, Adolf Hitler an original E1b1b Moor. He was also haunted by the idea of purifying the Arian race "whatever that is". Why? Because he himself was subconsciously uncertain of his own murky Ancestry, aka Schicklgruber. Defacto you seem to be on the same side of the spectrum , just pulling in an opposite direction.On the other Hand seeking accuracy through knowledge is never wrong, that’s why I would rather see Asians doing Historical research and interpreting it. They seem to be less based and are mostly not into Jewish fairytales.
PS. I personally feel no loyalty to Euros or Americans.
Posts: 41 | Registered: Jul 2008
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