quote:Originally posted by xyyman: [QB] Some of us grow while others remain in the dark ages of genetics.
Again ..based upon the genetic data provided, ignoring selective pictures, Berbers are indigenous Africans.
xyyman if you agreed that a particualr berber from some particular berber group had 35% Eurasian ancestry and 65% African ancestry would you consider that person an Indigenous African?
give me a straight answer, no games or avoidance please
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If it you still cannot get it through your thick skull. Good god man! I don't want to be hard on you but you seem reasonably intelligent. Learn and grow!
ANTHROPOLOGIE International Journal of Human Diversity and Evolution Coverage: 1923-1941 (Vols. I-XIX) & 1962-2013 (Vols. 1-51) ISSN 0323-1119
Human population phylogenetic studies using mithochondrial DNA.
Dr Rym KEFI and Dr Eliane BERAUD-COLOMB. U600 INSERM-FRE2059 CNRS Laboratoire d'Immunologie, Hôpital de Sainte-Marguerite- Marseille- France.
II- Example I: Mitochondrial DNA diversity of the prehistoric population from Taforalt (12,000 years- Morocco).
Abstract The population exhumed from the archaeological site of Taforalt in Morocco (12,000 years BP) is a valuable source of information toward a better knowledge of the settlement of Northern Africa region and provides a revolutionary way to specify the origin of Ibero-Maurusian populations. Ancient DNA was extracted from 31 bone remains from Taforalt.The HVS1 fragment of the mitochondrial DNA control region was PCR-amplified and directly sequenced. Mitochondrial diversity in Taforalt shows the absence of sub-Saharan haplogroups suggesting that Ibero-Maurusian individuals had not originated in sub-Saharan region. Our results reveal a probable local evolution of Taforalt population and a genetic continuity in North Africa.
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Clyde this genetic data could be used to argue that the berbers are near 50% African or more, 60, 75% in some cases perhaps
And using your assessments of M1 being African or other haplogroups you think are in fact African and not Eurasian the percentages of Africna could be even higher
what do you say about this?
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by xyyman:
Give up European white women coming to Africa. It never happened!!!!
Do you realize no Y DNA from the Taforalt has been presented? It may or may not have also been Eurasian to some extent. The M81 or other E is form analysis of modern berbers and M81 is thought to be only 5600 years old !
Also as far as the mtDNA is concerned look to history, raids, rape and pillage,
Invaders come in. They kill/chase away the men and then rape the women and take them as slaves or wives
So forgot your silly scenarios where a caravan of women only strolls in. There are other more sober explanations
.
Leave it to you to take "Amazons" seriously. My take is H1'3 developed autochthonously throughout Alboran concurrently ultimately deriving from some Levant/Iraq parent H. But that's just my guess work since all the puzzle pieces don't fit.
But please tell us your "sober explanations" of which nrY may have existed in Maurusian.
The possible nrY's of Maurusians can be deduced from which nrY is old enough and noted to be in or near the Maghreb. This can be assessed fromliving populations as ancient nrY is still not replicable afaik. Of course the result will only be hypothetical.
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If it you still cannot get it through your thick skull. Good god man!
1. MtDNA hg-H in Africa 12000ya.
2. MtDNA hg-H NOT in Europe until about 4-5000ya.
In human mitochondrial genetics, Haplogroup H is a human mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) haplogroup that likely originated in Southwest Asia[1] 20,000-25,000 YBP. chilli A, Rengo C, Magri C, et al. (November 2004)
It was carried to Europe by migrations c. 20-25,000 years ago, and spread with population of the southwest of the continent.[3][4] Its arrival was roughly contemporary with the rise of the Gravettian culture. The spread of subclades H1, H3 and the sister haplogroup V reflect a second intra-European expansion from the Franco-Cantabrian region after the last glacial maximum, c. 13,000 years ago
^ Jump up to: a b c d e f g Achilli A, Rengo C, Magri C, et al. (November 2004). "The Molecular Dissection of mtDNA Haplogroup H Confirms That the Franco-Cantabrian Glacial Refuge Was a Major Source for the European Gene Pool". American Journal of Human Genetics 75 (5): 910–8. doi:10.1086/425590. PMC 1182122. PMID 15382008. ^ Jump up to: a b van Oven M, Kayser M (February 2009). "Updated comprehensive phylogenetic tree of global human mitochondrial DNA variation". Human Mutation 30 (2): E386–94. doi:10.1002/humu.20921. PMID 18853457. ^ Jump up to: a b c d e Pereira L, Richards M, Goios A, et al. (January 2005). "High-resolution mtDNA evidence for the late-glacial resettlement of Europe from an Iberian refugium". Genome Research 15 (1): 19–24. doi:10.1101/gr.3182305. PMC 540273. PMID 15632086. Jump up ^ Richards M, Macaulay V, Hickey E, et al. (November 2000). "Tracing European Founder Lineages in the Near Eastern mtDNA Pool". American Journal of Human Genetics 67 (5): 1251–76. doi:10.1016/S0002-9297(07)62954-1. PMC 1288566. PMID 11032788.
Listen man. Read above. There is NO such things as Eurasian ancestry. You still don't get it. It is label put to genetic markers found in Europe. But it did not originate in Europe!! That is the point of my/Your Kefi quote. sigh!!!
If the live data is correct hg-H is present in Africa 12000ya(Kefi) but ABSENT in Europe 5000ya. Does Achille hypothesis make any sense now? brrrr!!!!!!
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: [QB] Some of us grow while others remain in the dark ages of genetics.
Again ..based upon the genetic data provided, ignoring selective pictures, Berbers are indigenous Africans.
xyyman if you agreed that a particualr berber from some particular berber group had 35% Eurasian ancestry and 65% African ancestry would you consider that person an Indigenous African?
give me a straight answer, no games or avoidance please
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: [QB] ^Yeah. Quote decade old studies...
Listen man. Read above. There is NO such things as Eurasian ancestry. You still don't get it. It is label put to genetic markers found in Europe.
In the beginning there was only one haplogroup of humans
Then people spread into different parts of African and different haplogroups evolved in different parts of Africa. M81 for instance is believed to be only 5600 years old
Similarly people later left Africa and other new haplogroups evolved outside of Africa.
Now explain your denialist viewpoint
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
Sorry for redundancy but I can't let that 9 year old Kefi slide get posted without proper rejoinder.
A little basic math lesson.
Kefi's table has 23 entries.
Three Taf V entries were reduced to one, leaving a base of 21 entries.
Kefi has: * local North African U6 at 9.5% (2/21) * presumed foreign H U JT V at 90.5% (but 18/21 = 85.7%) * presumed "sub-Sudanese" L3/M/N at 0% (but 1/21 = 4.8%)
Note that 9.5 + 85.7 = 95.2 not 100
To arrive at 90.5% for H U JT V Kefi had to add the sub-Sudanese 4.8% to the foreign 85.7%. Kefi, with a stroke of the pen and hoping no one would notice, added sub-Sudanese L3/M/N to the Eurasiatic component.
Kefi has been dishonest and biased against non-local Africans in her aDNA report on Taforalt as her fudging of the stats clearly shows. In her drive to disallow what she sees as sub-Sudanese Maurusian founders Kefi failed to announce possible L clades in her 2005 report though in 2009 she admits Sudani (or Sudani-like "genes") in Holocene Maghreb.
Posts: 8179 | From: the Tekrur straddling Senegal & Mauritania | Registered: Dec 2011
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: [QB] ^Yeah. Quote decade old studies...
Listen man. Read above. There is NO such things as Eurasian ancestry. You still don't get it. It is label put to genetic markers found in Europe.
In the beginning there was only one haplogroup of humans
Then people spread into different parts of African and different haplogroups evolved in different parts of Africa. M81 for instance is believed to be only 5600 years old
Similarly people later left Africa and other new haplogroups evolved outside of Africa.
Now explain your denialist viewpoint
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posted
I am up to date on your math disclosure Sage. I read and understand before I comment. I read the thread.
I am citing Kefi because of her disclosure showing the presence of hg-H in Africa 12000ya. while it is NOT found in Europe. Which goes hand in hand to what I have been saying all along.
Assuming her work was vetted.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
white European women hunter gatherers entering Africa...sheesh!! Leave to Hollywood...Charlies Angels
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nevertheless 20+ individuals having Eurasian DNA In 12k BP North Africa, prehistoric back migration proven
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: I am up to date on your math disclosure Sage. I read and understand before I comment. I read the thread.
I am citing Kefi because of her disclosure showing the presence of hg-H in Africa 12000ya. while it is NOT found in Europe. Which goes hand in hand to what I have been saying all along.
Assuming her work was vetted.
H originated in Southwest Asia and was carried to Europe by migrations c. 20-25,000 years ago
February 2009). "Updated comprehensive phylogenetic tree of global human mitochondrial DNA variation". Human Mutation 30 (2): E386–94. doi:10.1002/humu.20921.
posted
You have a few loose screws. Does that make any sense in light with what is published on aDNA.
Let me guess ...from South West Asia to North Africa(west)? 12000ya. Then 7000y!!! later from South West Asia to Iberia. That is really a horrendous script. I have seen better scripted movies on USA network.
That is why I don't argue hypotheticals. It can be circular and a waste of time. Stick to the FACTS...ie published data.
is there aDNA in south west Asia or comparative data between South West asia and North Afica. Something RECENT using MODERN analytical techniques. Even Henn admitted(in her infamous paper) based upon AIM that North Africans and Arabians separated about 40Kya.
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: I am up to date on your math disclosure Sage. I read and understand before I comment. I read the thread.
I am citing Kefi because of her disclosure showing the presence of hg-H in Africa 12000ya. while it is NOT found in Europe. Which goes hand in hand to what I have been saying all along.
Assuming her work was vetted.
H originated in Southwest Asia and was carried to Europe by migrations c. 20-25,000 years ago
February 2009). "Updated comprehensive phylogenetic tree of global human mitochondrial DNA variation". Human Mutation 30 (2): E386–94. doi:10.1002/humu.20921.
_______________________________
^^^ 2009
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Some of us grow while others remain in the dark ages of genetics.
To those who don't get it. The genetic data is now confirming Sergi was correct. All the megalithic structures found in the Mediterranean Islands and southern European mainland came from peoples of the Sahara North Africa. Africans have been entering Europe close to 50,000yrs.
ALL contemporary genetic comparing both shores have confirmed that.
I am open to ANYONE to prove otherwise. ANYONE?!
Of course a minimum amount of intelligence and analytical ability is required.
Notice, I let some RAMBLE on(ARTU etc)...because I understand they are learning.
Again ..based upon the genetic data provided, ignoring selective pictures, Berbers are indigenous Africans.
Truthteacher? has a video of Amazigh on ESR. I saw it a few days ago. I am beginning to recognize a true Amazihg. Their facial structure seems to be similar to the San, similar skin tone, but straight hair.
I hope some of you realize that some Amazihg also carry deepest clade of hg-A. Some researches are now speculating that AMH first appeared in NW/C Africa(Sahel). Sources cited....
I happen to know a Tamazight exactly like that. And when I say exactly, I mean exactly. Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: I am up to date on your math disclosure Sage. I read and understand before I comment. I read the thread.
I am citing Kefi because of her disclosure showing the presence of hg-H in Africa 12000ya. while it is NOT found in Europe. Which goes hand in hand to what I have been saying all along.
Assuming her work was vetted.
H originated in Southwest Asia and was carried to Europe by migrations c. 20-25,000 years ago
February 2009). "Updated comprehensive phylogenetic tree of global human mitochondrial DNA variation". Human Mutation 30 (2): E386–94. doi:10.1002/humu.20921.
_______________________________
^^^ 2009
So what was there before the existence of Hg H*? Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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If it you still cannot get it through your thick skull. Good god man!
1. MtDNA hg-H in Africa 12000ya.
2. MtDNA hg-H NOT in Europe until about 4-5000ya.
In human mitochondrial genetics, Haplogroup H is a human mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) haplogroup that likely originated in Southwest Asia[1] 20,000-25,000 YBP. chilli A, Rengo C, Magri C, et al. (November 2004)
It was carried to Europe by migrations c. 20-25,000 years ago, and spread with population of the southwest of the continent.[3][4] Its arrival was roughly contemporary with the rise of the Gravettian culture. The spread of subclades H1, H3 and the sister haplogroup V reflect a second intra-European expansion from the Franco-Cantabrian region after the last glacial maximum, c. 13,000 years ago
^ Jump up to: a b c d e f g Achilli A, Rengo C, Magri C, et al. (November 2004). "The Molecular Dissection of mtDNA Haplogroup H Confirms That the Franco-Cantabrian Glacial Refuge Was a Major Source for the European Gene Pool". American Journal of Human Genetics 75 (5): 910–8. doi:10.1086/425590. PMC 1182122. PMID 15382008. ^ Jump up to: a b van Oven M, Kayser M (February 2009). "Updated comprehensive phylogenetic tree of global human mitochondrial DNA variation". Human Mutation 30 (2): E386–94. doi:10.1002/humu.20921. PMID 18853457. ^ Jump up to: a b c d e Pereira L, Richards M, Goios A, et al. (January 2005). "High-resolution mtDNA evidence for the late-glacial resettlement of Europe from an Iberian refugium". Genome Research 15 (1): 19–24. doi:10.1101/gr.3182305. PMC 540273. PMID 15632086. Jump up ^ Richards M, Macaulay V, Hickey E, et al. (November 2000). "Tracing European Founder Lineages in the Near Eastern mtDNA Pool". American Journal of Human Genetics 67 (5): 1251–76. doi:10.1016/S0002-9297(07)62954-1. PMC 1288566. PMID 11032788.
Mitochondrial Haplogroup H1 in North Africa: An Early Holocene Arrival from Iberia Claudio Ottoni equal contributor,
Giuseppina Primativo equal contributor,
Baharak Hooshiar Kashani,
Alessandro Achilli,
Cristina Martínez-Labarga,
Gianfranco Biondi,
Antonio Torroni,
Olga Rickards mail
How is that possible, when other studies are saying that modern Europeans entered Southwest Europe during the Mesolithic, by a migrating farming culture from the mid-east, around 8-6 Kya. And from Northern (Northeast) Europe onwards migration took place during 20 Kya.
Clyde proposes them as a San population:
quote:"others like Predomost and to a lesser degree Grimaldi and Teviec, are more prognathic like Skhul 5."
--Marta Mirazón Lahr. 2005. The Evolution of Modern Human Diversity:
quote: Here, we analysed the mitochondrial DNA of prehistoric remains from archaeological sites dated to 7,500 and 3,500 years Before Present. These sites are located in North East Europe, a region that displays a significant cultural and linguistic diversity today but for which no ancient human DNA was available before. We show that prehistoric hunter-gatherers of North East Europe were genetically similar to other European foragers. We also detected a prehistoric genetic input from Siberia, followed by migrations from Western Europe into North East Europe.
[...]
We identified remarkable genetic dissimilarities between prehistoric and modern-day North East Europeans/Saami, which suggests an important role of post-Mesolithic migrations from Western Europe and subsequent population replacement/extinctions. This work demonstrates how ancient DNA can improve our understanding of human population movements across Eurasia.
[...]
First, ancestors of the Saami were suggested to have reached Fennoscandia from Western Europe along the Atlantic cast of Norway as part of the expansion of Mesolithic post-Ahrensburgian cultures (Fosna-Hensbacka and Komsa) in the early Holocene (~10,000–11,000 yBP). Alternatively, the Saami were proposed to find their origins in Mesolithic post-Swiderian cultures (Kunda, Veretye, Suomusjärvi), which had moved from Poland into NEE also in the early Holocene [24].
quote: Although it was not possible to determine a contribution of Neolithic farmers to the Caucasian gene pool, the principal component analysis showed clear differences between these populations and those of Europe, Siberia and Asia. No evidence of correlation between genetic and linguistic data in our populations was disclosed.
Armenians are a separate ethnic group, which originated from Neolithic tribes of the Armenian Uplands. In the 12th- 11th centuries BC...
However, we cannot exclude a Neolithic contribution to the contemporary gene pool. The possible reason for the absence of the frequency distribution gradient can be genetic drift, reinforced by isolation that could conceal the influence of Neolithic farmers on the Caucasus populations [1,21].
While an Alu insertion marker does not have enough power of resolution to assess the contribution of the influence of Neolithic farmers on the Caucasian gene pool, it clearly separates both South and North Caucasus populations (except Karanogays) from Siberian and Asian populations.
--Litvinov S* et al.
BJMG 11/2 (2008) 25-30 10.2478/v10034-008-0030-0
ALU INSERTION POLYMORPHISMS IN POPULATIONS OF THE SOUTH CAUCASUS
quote:
In Europe, the Neolithic transition (8,000–4,000 B.C.) from hunting and gathering to agricultural communities was one of the most important demographic events since the initial peopling of Europe by anatomically modern humans in the Upper Paleolithic (40,000 B.C.). However, the nature and speed of this transition is a matter of continuing scientific debate in archaeology, anthropology, and human population genetics. To date, inferences about the genetic make up of past populations have mostly been drawn from studies of modern-day Eurasian populations, but increasingly ancient DNA studies offer a direct view of the genetic past. We genetically characterized a population of the earliest farming culture in Central Europe, the Linear Pottery Culture (LBK; 5,500–4,900 calibrated B.C.) and used comprehensive phylogeographic and population genetic analyses to locate its origins within the broader Eurasian region, and to trace potential dispersal routes into Europe. We cloned and sequenced the mitochondrial hypervariable segment I and designed two powerful SNP multiplex PCR systems to generate new mitochondrial and Y-chromosomal data from 21 individuals from a complete LBK graveyard at Derenburg Meerenstieg II in Germany. These results considerably extend the available genetic dataset for the LBK (n = 42) and permit the first detailed genetic analysis of the earliest Neolithic culture in Central Europe (5,500–4,900 calibrated B.C.). We characterized the Neolithic mitochondrial DNA sequence diversity and geographical affinities of the early farmers using a large database of extant Western Eurasian populations (n = 23,394) and a wide range of population genetic analyses including shared haplotype analyses, principal component analyses, multidimensional scaling, geographic mapping of genetic distances, and Bayesian Serial Simcoal analyses. The results reveal that the LBK population shared an affinity with the modern-day Near East and Anatolia, supporting a major genetic input from this area during the advent of farming in Europe. However, the LBK population also showed unique genetic features including a clearly distinct distribution of mitochondrial haplogroup frequencies, confirming that major demographic events continued to take place in Europe after the early Neolithic.
[...]
The 11 widespread haplotypes are mainly basal (i.e., constituting a basal node within the corresponding hg) for Western Eurasian mitochondrial hgs H, HV, V, K, T, and W. While these haplotypes are relatively uninformative for identifying genetic affiliations to extant populations, this finding is consistent within an ancient population (5,500–4,900 cal B.C., i.e., prior to recent population expansions), in which basal haplotypes might be expected to be more frequent than derived haplotypes (e.g., end tips of branches within hgs). The next ten LBK haplotypes were unequally spread among present-day populations and for this reason potentially contain information about geographical affinities.
[...]
PC correlates and component loadings (Figure 2) showed a pattern similar to average hg frequencies (Table 2) in both large meta-population sets, with the LBK dataset grouping with Europeans because of a lack of mitochondrial African hgs (L and M1) and preHV, and elevated frequencies of hg V.
--Wolfgang Haak
Ancient DNA from European Early Neolithic Farmers Reveals Their Near Eastern Affinities
What may be the oldest fragments of the modern human genome found yet have now been revealed — DNA from the 7,000-year-old bones of two cavemen unearthed in Spain, researchers say.
These findings suggest the cavemen there were not the ancestors of the people found in the region today, investigators added.
Scientists have recently sequenced the genomes of our closest extinct relatives, the Neanderthals and the Denisovans. When it came to our lineage, the oldest modern human genomes recovered yet came from Ötzi the Iceman, a 5,300-year-old mummy found in the Alps in 1991. Researchers have salvaged DNA from even older human cells, but this comes from the mitochondria that generate energy for our bodies, and not from the nucleus where our chromosomes are housed. (Mitochondrial DNA is passed down only by mothers.)
Now researchers have rescued fragments of genomes from the remains of two cavemen unearthed in northern Spain.
"These are the oldest partial genomes from modern human prehistory," researcher Carles Lalueza-Fox, a paleogeneticist at the Spanish National Research Council, told LiveScience.
The skeletons of two young adult males were discovered by chance in 2006 by cave explorers in a cavern high in the Cantabrian mountain range, whose main entrance is found at 4,920 feet (1,500 meters) altitude. Winters there are notably cold, which helped preserve the DNA in the bones.
These bones date back to the Mesolithic period, before agriculture spread to the Iberian Peninsula with Neolithic settlers from the Middle East. These cavemen were hunter-gatherers, judging by the ornament that one was found with of red-deer canines embroidered onto a cloth.
The scientists recovered 1.34 percent and 0.5 percent of the human genomes from the bones of these two cave men. Analyses revealed that current populations of the Iberian Peninsula, which includes Spain, Portugal and Andorra, are not genetically linked with these ancient hunter-gatherers. Instead, these cavemen were closer genetically to the current populations of northern Europe.
"There are many works that claim the Basques [of the Iberian Peninsula] could be descendants from Mesolithics that became isolated in the Basque country," Lalueza-Fox said. "We found the modern Basques are genetically not related to these two individuals."
The scientists also recovered the complete mitochondrial DNA of one of these cavemen. This revealed that European populations during the Mesolithic were very uniform genetically.
"Despite their geographical distance, individuals from the regions corresponding to the current England, Germany, Lithuania, Poland and Spain shared the same mitochondrial lineage," Lalueza-Fox said. "These hunters-gatherers shared nomadic habits and had a common origin."
The researchers now aim to complete the genomes of both cavemen. Such data could help "explore genes that have been modified with the arrival of the Neolithic in the European populations," Lalueza-Fox said.
posted
The 2 wannabe black Africans, euroclown 'xyyman' and 'Trollkillah # Ish Gebor', are back with their old trickery of trying to confuse people with stupidity and crazy theory.
Even swenet one of their own tried to explain to them the basics of haplogroups without any impact on them.
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler:
@ the ES readership
I have three autosome skylines that more than support Berbers are primarily Africa, and they hi-lite the local contribution as dominant.
Waiting for the top slot of a fress page before I post them. Meanwhile all go ahead with filler as long as it's related to the thread's topic header.
I'm sure the ES readership is waiting for you to post this. What are you waiting for another new page?
As for the local contribution, don't be stupid, even Swenet explained it to you. Even if the mutation U6 first appeared in North Africa. It's parent basal U, and grandparents R and N haplogroups originated outside Africa in Europe and Asia. If you can't understand that, you're an idiot.
Tukuler read this. :
quote:Originally posted by Swenet: The majority of the Taforalt individuals are descendants of what back then would then have been recent European immigrants .
posted
As I said, you are a brotha so you are free to babble on. Great pics you posted when you first joined. Nice thread and work on the Green Sahara.
First we had a black pimp from Holland fantasizing white European women hunter gatherers migrating into Africa from Iberia. Now the continental brothas are fantasizing about nomadic Arabic women migrating into Africa without their men. What is it with you brotha and light skin women?. Next you will theorizing that male hg-E back migrated into Africa. Hold on! Cruiciani did that already. Lol!
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quote:Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler:
L3 or M or N,, question mark
on one individual of the 23
nevertheless 20+ individuals having Eurasian DNA In 12k BP North Africa, prehistoric back migration proven
L3, M and N carry nuclear resolutions to H*. This is what you don't get. And ironically these were already in North Africa, coming from East Africa.
Physical anthropology and archeology is telling us that OOA took place.
This is why it can't be due to back migration.
You missed the point of my post I was talking about 20+ individuals with H, U. JT, V
not the one individual who was L3 or M or N
>> 20+ individuals with H, U. JT, V means back migration from Eurasia 12k Bp
If we add one individual who might have been L3 or M or N it doesn't change those other hgs
Now listen up you and xyyman:
If genetic material recovered from a tooth of La Brana man in Spain that had markers for dark skin there is no longer need to fear "back migration from Europe"
> If they had dark skin you can relax
--blacks win, all of us
Posts: 42922 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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Not only La Brana. Over ****180**** aDNA studies were done on ancient Europeans. Results show that mtDNA hg-H was NOT present in Europe until about 3000BC. This is NOT a hypothesis. This LIVE data.
Achilli was speculating. He was wrong!!!!
Live data has also shown hg-H present in Africa 12000ya. Get it!
As I said aDNA will bring the delusion to an end. It started with the Amarna mummies.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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Received 20 September 2012 Accepted 27 February 2013 Published 23 April 2013
Neolithic mitochondrial haplogroup H genomes and the genetic origins of Europeans
Paul Brotherton et al
Abstract Abstract• Accession codes• References• Author information• Supplementary information Haplogroup H dominates present-day Western European mitochondrial DNA variability (>40%), yet was less common (~19%) among Early Neolithic farmers (~5450 BC) and virtually absent in Mesolithic hunter-gatherers. Here we investigate this major component of the maternal population history of modern Europeans and sequence 39 complete haplogroup H mitochondrial genomes from ancient human remains. We then compare this ‘real-time’ genetic data with cultural changes taking place between the Early Neolithic (~5450 BC) and Bronze Age (~2200 BC) in Central Europe. Our results reveal that the current diversity and distribution of haplogroup H were largely established by the Mid Neolithic (~4000 BC), but with substantial genetic contributions from subsequent pan-European cultures such as the Bell Beakers expanding out of Iberia in the Late Neolithic (~2800 BC). Dated haplogroup H genomes allow us to reconstruct the recent evolutionary history of haplogroup H and reveal a mutation rate 45% higher than current estimates for human mitochondria.
Haplogroup H dominates present-day Western European mitochondrial DNA variability (>40%), yet was less common (~19%) among Early Neolithic farmers (~5450 BC) and virtually absent in Mesolithic hunter-gatherers. Here we investigate this major component of the maternal population history of modern Europeans and sequence 39 complete haplogroup H mitochondrial genomes from ancient human remains. We then compare this ‘real-time’ genetic data with cultural changes taking place between the Early Neolithic (~5450 BC) and Bronze Age (~2200 BC) in Central Europe. Our results reveal that the current diversity and distribution of haplogroup H were largely established by the Mid Neolithic (~4000 BC), but with substantial genetic contributions from subsequent pan-European cultures such as the Bell Beakers expanding out of Iberia in the Late Neolithic (~2800 BC). Dated haplogroup H genomes allow us to reconstruct the recent evolutionary history of haplogroup H and reveal a mutation rate 45% higher than current estimates for human mitochondria.
The demographic reconstruction, which is based on direct calibration points, has major implications for understanding post-glacial human history in Europe. Our new estimate is that the majority of present-day hg H lineages were carried into Central, Northern and Eastern Europe via a post-glacial human population expansion before the Holocene (12 kya)13. Our data complement a recent study, based on present-day mt genomes, which describes a pronounced population increase at ~7000 BC (interpreted as a Neolithic expansion into Europe), but followed by a slow population growth until the present day26. By including ancient DNA data from across the critical time points in question, our skyride plot corrects for missing temporal data and suggests substantial growth of hg H from the beginning of the Neolithic and continuing throughout the entire Neolithic period. This emphasizes the role of farming practices and cultural developments in the demographic expansions inferred in subsequent time periods, which have not yet been explored genetically.
The team used DNA extracted from bone and teeth samples from prehistoric human skeletons to sequence a group of maternal genetic lineages that are now carried by up to 45 per cent of Europeans.
“This is the first high-resolution genetic record of these lineages through time, and it is fascinating that we can directly observe both human DNA evolving in ‘real-time’, and the dramatic population changes that have taken place in Europe,” said Dr Wolfgang Haak of the University of Adelaide’s Australian Center for Ancient DNA, co-author of a paper published in the journal Nature Communications.
“We can follow over 4,000 years of prehistory, from the earliest farmers through the early Bronze Age to modern times.”
“The record of this maternally inherited genetic group, called Haplogroup H, shows that the first farmers in Central Europe resulted from a wholesale cultural and genetic input via migration, beginning in Turkey and the Near East where farming originated and arriving in Germany around 7500 years ago,” explained co-author Dr Paul Brotherton of the University of Huddersfield, UK.
Origin and Expansion of Haplogroup H, the Dominant Human Mitochondrial DNA Lineage in West Eurasia: The Near Eastern and Caucasian Perspective U Roostalu1,*, I Kutuev*†,
several hg H subclades in Near East and Southern Caucasus region coalesce to the pre-LGM period. Furthermore, irrespective of their common origin, significant differences between the distribution of hg H sub-hgs in Europe and in the Near East and South Caucasus imply limited post-LGM maternal gene flow between these regions. In a contrast, the North Caucasus mitochondrial gene pool has received an influx of hg H variants, arriving from the Ponto-Caspian/East European area
The hg H encompasses over 40% of the total mtDNA variation in most of Europe. Its frequency declines toward the East and South, but in the Near East, the Caucasus and Central Asia, its frequency is still as high as 10–30% (Metspalu et al. 1999; Richards et al. 2000; Tambets et al. 2000; Al-Zahery et al. 2003; Achilli et al. 2004; Loogväli et al. 2004; Metspalu et al. 2004; Quintana-Murci et al. 2004;
The present-day variation of hg H suggests that this mtDNA clade arose outside Europe before the LGM (Torroni et al. 1998; Richards et al. 2000; Loogväli et al. 2004; Pereira et al. 2005). In our attempt to expose pre-LGM limbs of hg H, we have characterized here the phylogeography of H13, which is one of the most diverse sub-hgs in the Near East and the Caucasus. It has a coalescence age of about 31,000 YBP according to HVS-1 (table 1) and about 25,000 or 19,000 YBP when calculated using coding region mutations. These dates place its origin before the LGM because the coalescence age, signaling the beginning of the expansion, is only the minimal absolute age of the clade.
It should be stressed that for the majority of hg H subclades, the signal of expansion in the Near East and the Caucasus lies in a time frame between 18,000 and 10,000 YBP (table 1).
__________________________________________
It may depend on where the oldest remains are carrying Haplogroup H are I'm not sure
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posted
Did you read what you just posted? "Real time", I said "live" data. Same difference? Kefi proved hg-H in Africa 12000ya. The sources you cited proved, using live data, H was not present in Europe.....or the middle east. OK I am off by oneK.
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler:
L3 or M or N,, question mark
on one individual of the 23
nevertheless 20+ individuals having Eurasian DNA In 12k BP North Africa, prehistoric back migration proven
.
No problem that Kefi question marks all her CRS and H too, huh?. Your MO is to call into doubt any African things but even the flimsiest of a Euro supposition is good as gold to you.
Your math is about as good as Kefi's with the sleight of hand. 18 does not equal 20 nor are all of the 18 unquestionably Eurasian.
Well we know you're incapable of independently critically examining geneticsts' reports but I can.
There are six possible L lineages in the Taforalt samples. Most people understand L3/M/N is there because M and N are also known as L3M and L3N.
The point is not to deny any of the projections instead of covering up and acting like Kefi who discounted "subSudanese" sample Taf VIII as a Maurusian founder marker.
Thing is H1 and H3 aren't old enough to have been there when the Maurusian industry/culture arose. Neither is V. JT could be old enough. One geneticist proposes H1 didn't enter Africa until 9k.
A further partial confirmation of my non-L3 finds for Kefi's Taforalt samples is the fact of non-L3 haplogroups in Iberia and elsewhere in Europe. They didn't fly there. All aboard! Last stop before Iberia? Morocco.
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
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posted
Guess what? There are other people reading this than you.
Anyway I think Kefi used a date already given to the fossils not that she arrived at it from aDNA. aDNA is known to be fragmented so no way was it possible to arrive at solid CRS conclusions as the aDNA has dropouts which not being there cannot be compared to anything.
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: I am up to date on your math disclosure Sage. I read and understand before I comment. I read the thread.
I am citing Kefi because of her disclosure showing the presence of hg-H in Africa 12000ya. while it is NOT found in Europe. Which goes hand in hand to what I have been saying all along.
Assuming her work was vetted.
Hmmm. Interesting how no one's touched this since Kefi.
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posted
Just re-read Kivisild 2004 paper. He concluded that mtDNA macro groups M, N, R(R0)preHV , all originated in Africa. I posted on HV already. He provided data. I will post on it when I get time, on ESR. In another topic thread.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
quote:Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate:
.
Go away you bother me, boy. Try digesting the two autosomal skylines I already posted. Otherwise shut up and wait or do it yourself.
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posted
That is correct. No one has touched this since Kefi. At least no one has published since Kefi. Maybe they don't like what they saw....
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Thing is H1 and H3 aren't old enough to have been there when the Maurusian industry/culture arose. Neither is V. JT could be old enough. One geneticist proposes H1 didn't enter Africa until 9k.
I dont understand the comment I thought they detected H. U, JT and V
and that what you are saying maybe there was African L there additionally in an individual or a few (?)
Are you saying that H. JT and V were not detected at Taforalt? That is was a mistake or lie?
African L being present in Africa would be unremarkable. The other Hgs however are remarkable in that there being in Africa at that early 12K BP date
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posted
Haplogroup HV derives from the Haplogroup R0 (which in turn derives from haplogroup R). HV is also the ancestral haplogroup to Haplogroup H and Haplogroup V.
Haplogroup HV is a west Eurasian haplogroup found throughout West Asia and Southeastern Europe, including Iran, Anatolia (present-day Turkey) and the Caucasus Mountains of southern Russia and the republic of Georgia.[citation needed] It is also found to a much lesser extent in parts of East Africa, mainly in the population of Sudanese Arabs, where the frequency of Eurasian ancestry is 22.5%,[3] and a very high frequency of Y-chromosome Haplogroup J (Y-DNA) is also found.[4]
A 2003 study was published reporting on the mtDNA sequencing of the bones of two 24,000-year-old anatomically modern humans of the Cro-Magnon type from Southern Italy. The study showed one was of either haplogroup HV or R0
______________________________________________
Y-chromosome variation among Sudanese: Restricted gene flow, concordance with language, geography, and history
Hisham Y. Hassan1, Peter A. Underhill2, Luca L. Cavalli-Sforza2, Muntaser E. Ibrahim1,* Article first published online: 2008
posted
I don't want to screw up the thread. I will post more in another thread.
Some of us can THINK. I posted this about 6 months ago. My thoughts werent as clear then as now. There is a reason why M and the sub-clades are found in Asia while N and it subclades are found to the North in Europe.
I recently found out Kivislid et al agrees with me.
Damn!! I am good.
More to come on ESR or another therad.
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Tukuler
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posted
Stupid is as stupid does.
~20k beginning of Maurusian culture/industry. ~12k proposed date of Kefi's CRS H V.
Regardless of any Iberian components only her L3M U6 coalesced long enough ago to be "Ibero"Maurusian founders. JT could have been at the start too.
2 of the 4 Kefi H? samples could be L. 2 of the 3 Kefi JT samples could be L. 1 of the 2 Kefi _V samples could be L.
Considering that Maurusians were likely extremely endogenous, foreign women would be advantageous and boost percentages of live births and children living on to ages old enough to reproduce.
Were they more fertile they would become more numerous than autochthonous U6 M1 L3.
The actual Taforalt skeletons do not match Iberian skeletons so they do not represent any migrants. They are strictly local and those of non-African genetic precedents would be mixed descendents of migrants.
As for Kefi's non-CRS H?, I suspect it is autochthonous to Alboran. If so it's not actually specific to either continent.
It should be needless to say the U6 M1 & L3 founders of Maurusian culture/industry are not and owe nothing to any supposed European migrants.
There is no indication of Iberian culture industries in Maurusian Maghreb nor today are there any Iberian specific male markers cotemporaneous to Maghrebi H1 or V.
Between Maurusian nascience ~20k and Taforalt samples ~12k are 8000 years, something like 300 generations.
Autochthonous indigenous African U6 M1 and L3 were in Upper and Epi Paleolithic Mediterranean coastal Morocco and Algeria for thousands of years and hundreds of generations before any proposed Iberian one sex only migrants bereft of Iberian tool kit or cultural traits set foot on the continent.
The 2 wannabe black Africans, euroclown 'xyyman' and 'Trollkillah # Ish Gebor', are back with their old trickery of trying to confuse people with stupidity and crazy theory.
Even swenet one of their own tried to explain to them the basics of haplogroups without any impact on them.
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler:
@ the ES readership
I have three autosome skylines that more than support Berbers are primarily Africa, and they hi-lite the local contribution as dominant.
Waiting for the top slot of a fress page before I post them. Meanwhile all go ahead with filler as long as it's related to the thread's topic header.
I'm sure the ES readership is waiting for you to post this. What are you waiting for another new page?
As for the local contribution, don't be stupid, even Swenet explained it to you. Even if the mutation U6 first appeared in North Africa. It's parent basal U, and grandparents R and N haplogroups originated outside Africa in Europe and Asia. If you can't understand that, you're an idiot.
Tukuler read this. :
quote:Originally posted by Swenet: The majority of the Taforalt individuals are descendants of what back then would then have been recent European immigrants .
Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
Stupid is as stupid does vs Stuck on stupid
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quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: Stupid is as stupid does vs Stuck on stupid
Don't be silly. Even Swenet explained to you how the remains at Taforalt were " European immigrants ". It's simple enough to understand.
You and the 2 other undercover euroclowns seem to be oblivious to simple explanation and basic knowledge about haplogroups and genetics.
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
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posted
Argyle, did you read my first post of today? Yes but it doesn't please you and so whine on.
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"Evidence for a genetic discontinuity between Neandertals and 24,000-year-old anatomically modern Europeans"
In this study, we typed the hypervariable region I (HVRI) of the mitochondrial genome (360 bp) from the bones of two early a.m.h. of the Cro-Magnon type from Southern Italy.
Therefore, this sequence belongs to either haplogroups HV or pre-HV, two haplogroups rare in general but with a comparatively high frequencies among today's Near-Easterners
__________________________________
^^^ xyyman here's the ancestor of H twice as old as that analyzed by Kefi from Morocco.
Found in Italy, perhaps oriignally from the Anatolia or the Near East
___________________________________
I think Swenet may have mentioned this before
that the origin of the so called Iberomaurusian might not be Iberian because their skeletons are more similar to Northern Europeans than southern Europeans.
So in Iberia there may have been both native Iberians and Northern/Central Europeans who sought refuge from the LGM
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
The reasons it's not Iberian are * Iberian industry/culture is Magdalenian and Azilian * Magrheb industry/culture is Maurusian. * Magdalenian/Azilian vs Maurusian = nothing alike.
Valid comparisons for analyses * DNA is DNA (genetics) * Skeletons are skeletons (physical anthropology) * Industry/Culture is industry/culture (archaeology)
You may consider them all "fruit" but you're comparing "apples to oranges" as the saying goes when you posit that DNA equals bones.
Skeletons are not DNA.
Rhetorical argument: Higher cultured Iberians would have schooled lower cultured Maghrebis not have succumbed to their more primitive level (as I see it). Far outnumbering autochthone DNA, Taforalt's "Eurasian" DNA if it was from 12k foreign "invaders" their invading cultural industry should have predominated, no? I guess they were content to sink to the level of the handful of natives they found or imported and enslaved.
That is an inherent racism in the theory of Iberian people originating Maurusian culture. It's so convoluted only a Eurocentric could embrace it.
I don't know what the answer is to Eurasian H V & JT in Taforalt but it's millennia younger than native homegrown African U6 M1 & L3, a fact.
Timeframe: 20k Maurusian origins are with local U6 and M1 and so-called sub-Saharan L3 not with 12k Iberia.
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this analysis indicates the Taforalt population was primarily Eurasian by a large margin, 90%, 18 out of 21
is there a double standard here, where in Bekada you add up everything but here you have one individual in question and that justifies not considering any of the frequencies at all ?
Posts: 42922 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler:
L3 or M or N,, question mark
on one individual of the 23
nevertheless 20+ individuals having Eurasian DNA In 12k BP North Africa, prehistoric back migration proven
L3, M and N carry nuclear resolutions to H*. This is what you don't get. And ironically these were already in North Africa, coming from East Africa.
Physical anthropology and archeology is telling us that OOA took place.
This is why it can't be due to back migration.
You missed the point of my post I was talking about 20+ individuals with H, U. JT, V
not the one individual who was L3 or M or N
>> 20+ individuals with H, U. JT, V means back migration from Eurasia 12k Bp
If we add one individual who might have been L3 or M or N it doesn't change those other hgs
Now listen up you and xyyman:
If genetic material recovered from a tooth of La Brana man in Spain that had markers for dark skin there is no longer need to fear "back migration from Europe"
> If they had dark skin you can relax
--blacks win, all of us
Again, where is the archeology and anthropology backup of the claim above?
What are the nuclear resolutions to the Hg above?
quote: PC correlates and component loadings (Figure 2) showed a pattern similar to average hg frequencies (Table 2) in both large meta-population sets, with the LBK dataset grouping with Europeans because of a lack of mitochondrial African hgs (L and M1) and preHV, and elevated frequencies of hg V.
--Wolfgang Haak
Ancient DNA from European Early Neolithic Farmers Reveals Their Near Eastern Affinities
quote: Lalueza-Fox states: "However, the biggest surprise was to discover that this individual possessed African versions in the genes that determine the light pigmentation of the current Europeans, which indicates that he had dark skin, although we can not know the exact shade."
this analysis indicates the Taforalt population was primarily Eurasian by a large margin, 90%, 18 out of 21
is there a double standard here, where in Bekada you add up everything but here you have one individual in question and that justifies not considering any of the frequencies at all ?
What Tukuler is showing is the nuclear resolutions.
Seen from a nuclear resolution path, you're wrong.
This genetic nuclear resolution path is coherent with archeological and anthological findings. Stemming from East Africa. This is what you seem to miss.
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"Evidence for a genetic discontinuity between Neandertals and 24,000-year-old anatomically modern Europeans"
In this study, we typed the hypervariable region I (HVRI) of the mitochondrial genome (360 bp) from the bones of two early a.m.h. of the Cro-Magnon type from Southern Italy.
Therefore, this sequence belongs to either haplogroups HV or pre-HV, two haplogroups rare in general but with a comparatively high frequencies among today's Near-Easterners
__________________________________
^^^ xyyman here's the ancestor of H twice as old as that analyzed by Kefi from Morocco.
Found in Italy, perhaps oriignally from the Anatolia or the Near East
___________________________________
I think Swenet may have mentioned this before
that the origin of the so called Iberomaurusian might not be Iberian because their skeletons are more similar to Northern Europeans than southern Europeans.
So in Iberia there may have been both native Iberians and Northern/Central Europeans who sought refuge from the LGM
quote:At about 40,000 years ago, however, Homo sapiens, in the form of the Cro-Magnons, began trickling into Europe, probably from an initially African place of origin.
quote: European connection? Some features, such as the molars, of these 40,000-year- old specimens from Romania resemble those of earlier North African hominins.
Abstract The Aterian fossil hominins represent one of the most abundant series of human remains associated with Middle Stone Age/Middle Paleolithic assemblages in Africa.
The discovery will help better define northern Africa's possible role in first populating southern Europe.
The makers of these assemblages can therefore be seen as (1) a group of Homo sapiens predating and/or contemporary to the out-of-Africa exodus of the species, and (2) geographically one of the (if not the) closest from the main gate to Eurasia at the northeastern corner of the African continent.
Although Moroccan specimens have been discovered far away from this area, they may provide us with one of the best proxies of the African groups that expanded into Eurasia[...]
quote:"The so-called Old Man [Cro-Magnon 1] became the original model for what was once termed the Cro-Magnon or Upper Paleolithic "race" of Europe.. there's no such valid biological category, and Cro-Magnon 1 is not typical of Upper Paleolithic western Europeans- and not even all that similar to the other two make skulls found at the site. Most of the genetic evidence, as well as the newest fossil evidence from Africa argue against continuous local evolution producing modern groups directly from any Eurasian pre-modern population.. there's no longer much debate that a large genetic contribution from migrating early modern Africans infuenced other groups throughout the Old World.“
--B. Lewis et al. 2008. Understanding Humans: Introduction to Physical
quote:"others like Predomost and to a lesser degree Grimaldi and Teviec, are more prognathic like Skhul 5."
--Marta Mirazón Lahr. 2005. The Evolution of Modern Human Diversity:
quote:Migrations into India “did occur, but rarely from western Eurasian populations.” There are low frequencies of the western Eurasian mtDNA types in both southern and northern India. Thus, the ‘caucasoid’ features of south Asians may best be considered ‘pre-caucasoid’— that is, part of a diverse north or north-east African gene pool that yielded separate origins for western Eurasian and southern Asian populations over 50,000 years ago.
-- U.S. biological anthropologist Todd R. Disotell.
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quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: Argyle, did you read my first post of today? Yes but it doesn't please you and so whine on.
You post is typical waffling from you and only serves to prove my point.
For example, you keep babbling about U6 being indigenous to North Africa. You don't seem to understand that even if the mutation U6 first appeared in North Africa. Its parent basal U, and grandparents R and N haplogroups originated outside Africa in Europe and Asia.
This may help you understand (take your time to look at it):
You try to make this about me and you but truly even fellow Swenet told you about it and explained to it to xyyman in other posts.
quote:Originally posted by Swenet: The majority of the Taforalt individuals are descendants of what back then would then have been recent European immigrants .
So the specimen at taforalt are European immigrants from a very long time ago who then admixed with other Eurasian and African populations.
quote:Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate: You can't cop out from this one Tukuler:
The 2 wannabe black Africans, euroclown 'xyyman' and 'Trollkillah # Ish Gebor', are back with their old trickery of trying to confuse people with stupidity and crazy theory.
Even swenet one of their own tried to explain to them the basics of haplogroups without any impact on them.
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler:
@ the ES readership
I have three autosome skylines that more than support Berbers are primarily Africa, and they hi-lite the local contribution as dominant.
Waiting for the top slot of a fress page before I post them. Meanwhile all go ahead with filler as long as it's related to the thread's topic header.
I'm sure the ES readership is waiting for you to post this. What are you waiting for another new page?
As for the local contribution, don't be stupid, even Swenet explained it to you. Even if the mutation U6 first appeared in North Africa. It's parent basal U, and grandparents R and N haplogroups originated outside Africa in Europe and Asia. If you can't understand that, you're an idiot.
Tukuler read this. :
quote:Originally posted by Swenet: The majority of the Taforalt individuals are descendants of what back then would then have been recent European immigrants .
Take your time:
In other words after L* migrated to North Africa, it stopped mutating all of a sudden? ?
quote: "This conclusion points to an ancient African gene flow to Tunisia before 20,000 years BP"
[...]
Our results demonstrate an ancient local evolution in Tunisia of some African haplogroups (L2a, L3*, and L3b).
--Frigi et al. Human Biology (August 2010 (82:4)
quote: In addition, Bayesian skyline analysis of 328 complete L3 sequences and founder analysis of 2,359 L3 hypervariable segment I (HVS-I) sequences enabled us to infer both local demographic expansions and migrations within Africa.
[...]
The diversification of L3 in Eastern Africa began early, as demonstrated by the ages of L3a and L3h (fig. 1), both of which are virtually specific to this region (fig. 3A). The BSP for Eastern Africa (supplementary fig. S6, Supplementary Material online) alone rises most steeply only after 40 ka (table 1), but the plot shows a progressive increase from before 50 ka. Accordingly, the scan of HVS-I diversity of founder L3 lineages in Eastern Africa showed a peak at ∼58.8 ka (corresponding to nearly three quarters of the L3 data in Eastern Africa; table 2), followed by a second peak at ∼1.8 ka.
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: Stupid is as stupid does vs Stuck on stupid
Don't be silly. Even Swenet explained to you how the remains at Taforalt were " European immigrants ". It's simple enough to understand.
You and the 2 other undercover euroclowns seem to be oblivious to simple explanation and basic knowledge about haplogroups and genetics.
Whole-mtDNA Genome Sequence Analysis of Ancient African Lineages
(B) Relative frequencies of haplogroups L0, L1, L5, L2, L3, M, and N in different regions of Africa from mtDNA d-loop and mtDNA coding region SNPs from previous studies.
quote:Our objective is to highlight the age of sub-Saharan gene flows in North Africa and particularly in Tunisia. Therefore we analyzed in a broad phylogeographic context sub-Saharan mtDNA haplogroups of Tunisian Berber populations considered representative of ancient settlement. More than 2,000 sequences were collected from the literature, and networks were constructed. The results show that the most ancient haplogroup is L3*, which would have been introduced to North Africa from eastern sub-Saharan populations around 20,000 years ago. Our results also point to a less ancient western sub-Saharan gene flow to Tunisia, including haplogroups L2a and L3b. This conclusion points to an ancient African gene flow to Tunisia before 20,000 years BP. These findings parallel the more recent findings of both archaeology and linguistics on the prehistory of Africa. The present work suggests that sub-Saharan contributions to North Africa have experienced several complex population processes after the occupation of the region by anatomically modern humans. Our results reveal that Berber speakers have a foundational biogeographic root in Africa and that deep African lineages have continued to evolve in supra-Saharan Africa.
--Frigi et al. Human Biology (August 2010 (82:4)
code:
Geography Founder Analysis
Migration Time (ka) % of L3 Lineages (SE)
East Africa 58.8 74.0 (0.5)
1.8 20.1 (2.6) 0.1 5.9 (2.5)
Central Africa 42.4 75.0 (2.7) 9.2 24.1 (2.8) 0.1 0.9 (0.2)
North Africa 35.0 7.4 (2.7) 6.6 67.0 (4.0) 0.6 25.7 (3.1)
South Africa 3.2 86.7 (4.3) 0.1 13.3 (4.3)
South Africa (southern)1.8 83.4 (3.7) 0.1 16.6 (3.7)
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